4 ms·

Lol!! Don't forget. This is a modern day class war. This current LLM based so called AI, could have easily used for automating simple tasks and employees could

Lol!! Don't forget. This is a modern day class war. This current LLM based so called AI, could have easily used for automating simple tasks and employees could have easily provided with 3 day work week. The goal is to monopolize human knowledge with all the stolen data and make profits from it.

philipallstar 1mo ago
[flagged]
- Peaches4Rent 1mo ago
  Multi-million found
- gosub100 1mo ago
  he didn't say "everything" he said one thing.
  - senordevnyc 1mo ago
    In my experience, these class warfare conspiracists see class warfare in everything. Everything in human society gets reduced down to one side is the oppressor and one side is the victim. And they’re always the victim. EDIT since I can’t reply: It’s true that capital and labor often have competing goals, but they also have alignment at times. And labor also has different goals from consumers, from other groups of labor, etc. Capital owners are also in fierce competition with each other! And many individuals in the world are playing multiple roles in the system at the same time! I’m a consumer, a capital owner, a CEO, a wage worker, etc, all at the same time. I also have a bunch of stakeholders that I answer to: customers, investors, employees, the government, etc. So I object to the simplification of reducing a global system of ten billion humans with their own agency and circumstances, all collapsed down to one side vs another side, with the capital class in conspiratorial lockstep with each other, when the reality is much more complicated and interdependent. I also object to the constant claims of conspiracy among capital holders. Capital holders are also in extremely fierce competition with each other, and they are in turn beholden to consumers / buyers, etc.
    - xboxnolifes 1mo ago
      Surely everything economy related where the capital owners want one thing and the wage workers wants another is clearly a class war.
    - swed420 1mo ago
      > conspiracists You denialists have one favorite go-to rebuttal, don't you?
    - lovich 1mo ago
      > I also object to the constant claims of conspiracy among capital holders. Capital holders are also in extremely fierce competition with each other, and they are in turn beholden to consumers / buyers, etc. Cause we’ve never seen capital holders collude to keep wages down. Certainly never in the technology industry. It’s just pure competition as nature intended.[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_Litigation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_L...
      - senordevnyc 1mo ago
        Of course we see all kinds of illegal, anti-competitive, anti-consumer actions and collusions, etc. We also see all kinds of horrible actions from wage earners, consumers, the government, etc. What is your point? I'm clearly talking about an attitude that basically all capital owners are in secret cahoots with each other to destroy their sworn enemy: workers. Aka, the class war they don't want you to believe is happening. It's all nonsense.
        lovich 1mo ago
        They were literally in cahoots to keep wages down, you can’t hand wave it away as nonsense when it’s factually occurred. You do have bad actors amongst labor but everytime labor tries to coordinate together the union crushing apparatus comes out so you don’t tend to see as much coordinated bad activity. And with AI we’re not seeing companies chomping at the bit to make all their employees more productive left and right, we’re seeing them chomping at the bit to see how many employees they can cut
- muvlon 1mo ago
  The group who is currently winning this group vs. group war doesn't want you to think there is one.
  - Gormo 1mo ago
    The people who think everything is a group vs. group war naturally interpret everything as a move within that war, including non-participants' correct observation that it doesn't really exist outside of the minds of the small segment of paranoiacs choosing to engage it.
    - conorcleary 1mo ago
      You ignore the pawns on the chess board, don't ya
      - Gormo 1mo ago
        I'm ignoring the entire chess board, in fact, because the stuff that's going out outside of the chess game is much more important -- to me, and to most other people who aren't involved in the chess game.
- deleted 1mo ago
  [deleted]
- ozgung 1mo ago
  class struggle != everything is a group vs group war
  - Gormo 1mo ago
    The concept of "class struggle" epitomizes the "group vs. group war" mentality. It's a mental framework that combines ingroup/outgroup dynamics with a Manichean moral narrative, leading to literally every question being interpreted as a move in relation to an all-encompassing macro-level conflict. This in turn leads to every problem being abstracted out of its context, and attributed to malice instead of error. Thinking this way completely hampers the ability of human beings to make incremental progress on anything at all via net-positive social engagement with each other. The "class struggle" idea is of the most debilitating memetic diseases that's ever come about in human history.
    - beepbooptheory 1mo ago
      Huh. Do you think the same thing about the concept of social/economic class as well? Or is it just rejecting that there is typically a struggle between them?
      - doublepg23 1mo ago
        I don't believe class struggle is the driving force of history.
      - Gormo 1mo ago
        Basically, yeah. Classification in general is a subjective, value-laden activity. At the most granular resolution, everything is fundamentally sui generis -- putting things into classes requires making subjective judgments about what qualities and characteristics you're going to ignore in order to focus on the ones you care about. Put simply, when you come up with a class/category taxonomy, you're drawing your own boundaries inside a continuum of variation, and where you draw them is something you're choosing based on the purposes you are pursuing and the assumptions you have made, not mapping out something that's intrinsic to the external world independently of you. "Category X includes object Y" is a property inherent to the definition of category X; it is not a quality inherent to object Y. And when the things you're classifying are other people, and you're trying to develop a taxonomy that models their behavior, you have a situation where the entities you're analyzing are self-aware beings whose behavior is driven by the analytical models and taxonomies in their minds, not the ones in yours. People who propose class theories as a usable model for understanding human intentions and behavior lump other people together according to their own criteria, even though those people can -- and often do -- make their own decisions according to completely different criteria. People do not see strangers as having common interests or values simply because a third set of strangers have reduced them to data points that fall into the same bar on a narrowly tailored histogram. When put to the test, these class theories consistently fail to predict actual human behavior, and people with normative attachements to the theories then to hand-wave away these discrepancies: "false consciousness", "voting against their interests", etc.; these notions are layers of epicycles meant to sustain a speculative theory in the face of falsifying evidence. Much better to do away with a priori class theories, and just analyze what actual people are actually saying and doing.
bre1010 1mo ago
Agreed. LLMs are the Manhattan Project of the class war. It really looks like they're betting everything that this will "win" it for them
- api 1mo ago
  [flagged]
  - majewsky 1mo ago
    > Understand human nature, incentives, and complex systems like markets and how they produce incentives. We do. "Class war" is just the succinct phrasing for "people who earn money through capital returns have vastly different incentives than people who earn money from their labor, and they also have the means to turn those interests into political leverage".
    - api 1mo ago
      Except that when you comparison shop, you are helping construct those incentives. When you sell your labor you want it to cost as much as possible. When you buy the results of others labor you want them to be as cheap as possible. The system is circles, cycles, loops, two sided trades. It’s not one group of people unilaterally plotting things. When someone does try to do that they usually fail unless their plot happens to align with the current in the river. If you get rid of the investment and capital class you will get a new investment and capital class, probably made up of the leaders of the revolution that overthrew the old one. That’s where our current one came from after all. They are the intellectual and social descendants of the mercantile capitalists who overthrew the feudal order. It’s pretty common for the new boss to end up becoming the old boss because they are also monkeys with the same limbic system. Real change would require changing the system not the people in it, but I see no ideas on how to do this from the typical pop Marxist at least. Maybe there are deeper thinkers out there. Usually it’s “proletarian revolution, magic happens here, utopia.” Instead you get a new capital class whose power is rooted in position in the party, like the CCP, and it behaves just like our capital class. I also suspect really deep change would require genetic modification that alters the structure of the human central nervous system, since a lot of this stuff is just ape behavior writ large. My deeper point is: there’s a lot of discontent out there for legitimate reasons, but I don’t think LARPing communism will help any more than LARPing fascism has. We need new ideas, not 19th century ones that failed. Right now it just feels like the only ideas we have is to LARP the 1930s.
nyeah 1mo ago
"There's class warfare, all right, but it's my class, the rich class, that's making war, and we're winning." Warren Buffett
miljanm 1mo ago
https://branko2f7.substack.com/p/sketching-the-new-dysto-utopian-world https://branko2f7.substack.com/p/sketching-the-new-dysto-uto...

philipallstar 1mo ago

[flagged]

Peaches4Rent 1mo ago
Multi-million found
gosub100 1mo ago
he didn't say "everything" he said one thing.
- senordevnyc 1mo ago
  In my experience, these class warfare conspiracists see class warfare in everything. Everything in human society gets reduced down to one side is the oppressor and one side is the victim. And they’re always the victim. EDIT since I can’t reply: It’s true that capital and labor often have competing goals, but they also have alignment at times. And labor also has different goals from consumers, from other groups of labor, etc. Capital owners are also in fierce competition with each other! And many individuals in the world are playing multiple roles in the system at the same time! I’m a consumer, a capital owner, a CEO, a wage worker, etc, all at the same time. I also have a bunch of stakeholders that I answer to: customers, investors, employees, the government, etc. So I object to the simplification of reducing a global system of ten billion humans with their own agency and circumstances, all collapsed down to one side vs another side, with the capital class in conspiratorial lockstep with each other, when the reality is much more complicated and interdependent. I also object to the constant claims of conspiracy among capital holders. Capital holders are also in extremely fierce competition with each other, and they are in turn beholden to consumers / buyers, etc.
  - xboxnolifes 1mo ago
    Surely everything economy related where the capital owners want one thing and the wage workers wants another is clearly a class war.
  - swed420 1mo ago
    > conspiracists You denialists have one favorite go-to rebuttal, don't you?
  - lovich 1mo ago
    > I also object to the constant claims of conspiracy among capital holders. Capital holders are also in extremely fierce competition with each other, and they are in turn beholden to consumers / buyers, etc. Cause we’ve never seen capital holders collude to keep wages down. Certainly never in the technology industry. It’s just pure competition as nature intended.[1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_Litigation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_L...
    - senordevnyc 1mo ago
      Of course we see all kinds of illegal, anti-competitive, anti-consumer actions and collusions, etc. We also see all kinds of horrible actions from wage earners, consumers, the government, etc. What is your point? I'm clearly talking about an attitude that basically all capital owners are in secret cahoots with each other to destroy their sworn enemy: workers. Aka, the class war they don't want you to believe is happening. It's all nonsense.
      - lovich 1mo ago
        They were literally in cahoots to keep wages down, you can’t hand wave it away as nonsense when it’s factually occurred. You do have bad actors amongst labor but everytime labor tries to coordinate together the union crushing apparatus comes out so you don’t tend to see as much coordinated bad activity. And with AI we’re not seeing companies chomping at the bit to make all their employees more productive left and right, we’re seeing them chomping at the bit to see how many employees they can cut
muvlon 1mo ago
The group who is currently winning this group vs. group war doesn't want you to think there is one.
- Gormo 1mo ago
  The people who think everything is a group vs. group war naturally interpret everything as a move within that war, including non-participants' correct observation that it doesn't really exist outside of the minds of the small segment of paranoiacs choosing to engage it.
  - conorcleary 1mo ago
    You ignore the pawns on the chess board, don't ya
    - Gormo 1mo ago
      I'm ignoring the entire chess board, in fact, because the stuff that's going out outside of the chess game is much more important -- to me, and to most other people who aren't involved in the chess game.
deleted 1mo ago
[deleted]
ozgung 1mo ago
class struggle != everything is a group vs group war
- Gormo 1mo ago
  The concept of "class struggle" epitomizes the "group vs. group war" mentality. It's a mental framework that combines ingroup/outgroup dynamics with a Manichean moral narrative, leading to literally every question being interpreted as a move in relation to an all-encompassing macro-level conflict. This in turn leads to every problem being abstracted out of its context, and attributed to malice instead of error. Thinking this way completely hampers the ability of human beings to make incremental progress on anything at all via net-positive social engagement with each other. The "class struggle" idea is of the most debilitating memetic diseases that's ever come about in human history.
  - beepbooptheory 1mo ago
    Huh. Do you think the same thing about the concept of social/economic class as well? Or is it just rejecting that there is typically a struggle between them?
    - doublepg23 1mo ago
      I don't believe class struggle is the driving force of history.
    - Gormo 1mo ago
      Basically, yeah. Classification in general is a subjective, value-laden activity. At the most granular resolution, everything is fundamentally sui generis -- putting things into classes requires making subjective judgments about what qualities and characteristics you're going to ignore in order to focus on the ones you care about. Put simply, when you come up with a class/category taxonomy, you're drawing your own boundaries inside a continuum of variation, and where you draw them is something you're choosing based on the purposes you are pursuing and the assumptions you have made, not mapping out something that's intrinsic to the external world independently of you. "Category X includes object Y" is a property inherent to the definition of category X; it is not a quality inherent to object Y. And when the things you're classifying are other people, and you're trying to develop a taxonomy that models their behavior, you have a situation where the entities you're analyzing are self-aware beings whose behavior is driven by the analytical models and taxonomies in their minds, not the ones in yours. People who propose class theories as a usable model for understanding human intentions and behavior lump other people together according to their own criteria, even though those people can -- and often do -- make their own decisions according to completely different criteria. People do not see strangers as having common interests or values simply because a third set of strangers have reduced them to data points that fall into the same bar on a narrowly tailored histogram. When put to the test, these class theories consistently fail to predict actual human behavior, and people with normative attachements to the theories then to hand-wave away these discrepancies: "false consciousness", "voting against their interests", etc.; these notions are layers of epicycles meant to sustain a speculative theory in the face of falsifying evidence. Much better to do away with a priori class theories, and just analyze what actual people are actually saying and doing.

bre1010 1mo ago

Agreed. LLMs are the Manhattan Project of the class war. It really looks like they're betting everything that this will "win" it for them

api 1mo ago
[flagged]
- majewsky 1mo ago
  > Understand human nature, incentives, and complex systems like markets and how they produce incentives. We do. "Class war" is just the succinct phrasing for "people who earn money through capital returns have vastly different incentives than people who earn money from their labor, and they also have the means to turn those interests into political leverage".
  - api 1mo ago
    Except that when you comparison shop, you are helping construct those incentives. When you sell your labor you want it to cost as much as possible. When you buy the results of others labor you want them to be as cheap as possible. The system is circles, cycles, loops, two sided trades. It’s not one group of people unilaterally plotting things. When someone does try to do that they usually fail unless their plot happens to align with the current in the river. If you get rid of the investment and capital class you will get a new investment and capital class, probably made up of the leaders of the revolution that overthrew the old one. That’s where our current one came from after all. They are the intellectual and social descendants of the mercantile capitalists who overthrew the feudal order. It’s pretty common for the new boss to end up becoming the old boss because they are also monkeys with the same limbic system. Real change would require changing the system not the people in it, but I see no ideas on how to do this from the typical pop Marxist at least. Maybe there are deeper thinkers out there. Usually it’s “proletarian revolution, magic happens here, utopia.” Instead you get a new capital class whose power is rooted in position in the party, like the CCP, and it behaves just like our capital class. I also suspect really deep change would require genetic modification that alters the structure of the human central nervous system, since a lot of this stuff is just ape behavior writ large. My deeper point is: there’s a lot of discontent out there for legitimate reasons, but I don’t think LARPing communism will help any more than LARPing fascism has. We need new ideas, not 19th century ones that failed. Right now it just feels like the only ideas we have is to LARP the 1930s.

nyeah 1mo ago

"There's class warfare, all right, but it's my class, the rich class, that's making war, and we're winning." Warren Buffett

miljanm 1mo ago

https://branko2f7.substack.com/p/sketching-the-new-dysto-utopian-world https://branko2f7.substack.com/p/sketching-the-new-dysto-uto...