7 ms·

Pnpm 12.0

86 points by jcbhmr 2mo ago

ledoncool 2mo ago
Hooray!
mmmeff 2mo ago
Am I the only one that hates the decision to no longer support corepack?
- catlifeonmars 2mo ago
  Same here. Corepack was fine and there is already too much churn
- joshuat 2mo ago
  First I'm hearing of it, and it does dampen my enthusiasm for v12 a bit.
- winterqt 2mo ago
  Is "pnpm installs the other package managers" what you're talking about, or something else? That doesn't quite read like removing corepack support to me, though I might be missing something obvious.
  - fatata123 2mo ago
    [dead]
- mirekrusin 2mo ago
  pnpm 12 supports corepack (or better phrased - corepack supports pnpm 12). they just don't recommend it. nodejs stopped bundling corepack since node 25, maybe you're referring to that?
- Chyzwar 2mo ago
  It is node.js core that decided to drop corepack, now both yarn and pnpm are build own version of that.
- anon7000 2mo ago
  I migrated a Node 24 repo to pnpm 12 and it works absolutely fine with corepack out of the box.
winterqt 2mo ago
Good to see the maintainers don't care enough to take the time to write a release blogpost themselves. sigh
- paavohtl 2mo ago
  I was also bothered by this. I don't care if you use LLMs to write most or all of your code, but at least have the courtesy of actually writing your blog posts & readmes, to demonstrate that you at least understand what the LLM generated for you.
- techpression 2mo ago
  Hey Claude, write in the worst possible claudism way you possibly can, and make it sound like every other text on the internet that is published nowadays. "This post covers what pnpm 12 adds that pnpm 11 never shipped."
magnio 2mo ago
The more I read these ass Claude Opus writings the more I believe AGI is further away from us.
- zarzavat 2mo ago
  I thought 'how bad can it be?', yet only three paragraphs in "a specifier now names a repository rather than choosing a transport" If you're going to serve us slop then at least serve us good slop, give it a pass through GPT 5.6 to clean up the English.
  - deanc 2mo ago
    Maybe the author is a non-native English speaker, and this enables him to communicate things he's not able to do himself. Should OSS maintainers start hiring professional translators? Are you going to fund that? We really should stop jumping to conclusions and shaming people for using these tools just because you don't like the language of the LLM. How is a non native speaker meant to determine what is English slop and what isn't? I should also note, I am a native speaker. There's absolutely nothing wrong with what's written in the part you chose to paraphrase, and it makes sense to me.
    - veidr 2mo ago
      Ditto. I've started to wonder if the real problem with many of these complaints about LLM writing is actually reading comprehension.
    - fredrikholm 2mo ago
      This is a recent degradation; they've been writing blog entries for years. As a non native English speaker I can also attest to this trade being extremely demanding of English fluency: > public static void DoTheThing(Configuration config) Isn't something you can not understand and still function as a software engineer. Yes, some schools and universities teach in other languages, but the entire ecosystem from code to documentation to articles is nearly almost always in English.
BlueGreenMagick 2mo ago
> It is a rewrite of pnpm in Rust Their benchmarks[0] report that a clean install with lockfile is about 3x times faster (7s -> 2.2s) and a no-op install is about 29x times faster (517ms -> 18ms) [0]: https://pnpm.io/benchmarks https://pnpm.io/benchmarks
xiaoyu2006 2mo ago
Time to hop off I guess. They don't even bother to write changlog on their own.
- jdkoeck 2mo ago
  Same here, what if the internals get the same absence of care? No thank you.
  - afiori 2mo ago
    For a lot of people writing prose is a chore
1matin 2mo ago
Whenever you see a lot of long dashes (—) in a writing, there's a high chance Claude has written it.
- sevg 2mo ago
  In this case, the emdashes are just tip of the iceberg. The writing is so Claude that it’s painful to read (and in fact I stopped reading to save my mental health).
- veidr 2mo ago
  This heuristic is commonly believed — and expressed on this website — but is idiotic. Plenty of people have known how to use em dashes when writing on a computer since the 1980s. (This was true even before UTF-8 was invented to make extended characters work across platforms; instead of ⌘⇧-hyphen, we'd just type "--" to approximate it.) The reason LLMs tend to use a lot of em dashes is that the human-authored texts they were trained on used a lot of em dashes.
  - smt88 2mo ago
    This is untrue and a naive understanding of modern model training. Opus 5 does not speak like a normal, average, or common English user. For example, it says “stated plainly” or “worth stating plainly” (two very uncommon English phrases) every two or three responses.
  - tgv 2mo ago
    > Plenty of people have known how to use em dashes Plenty? I don't think it's that many. And knowing how to use them, doesn't mean they would actually use them. In my experience, em dashes are mainly found in academic literature. Chances that an em dash in a new text comes from an LLM are pretty high. Your use of it is dubious, I think. Commas would serve equally well --or better-- since it's a simple conjunction, not an interjection.
    - dkdbejwi383 2mo ago
      Markdown is ubiquitous in the kinds of places Hacker News visitors also tend to visit, like GitHub, various ticketing and project management systems like Jira, note takers like Obsidian and Notion (or an approximation of Markdown). I've used `--` for years in place of an em-dash, which markdown renders as an actual em-dash.
fwlr 2mo ago
Had to check the calendar to be sure it wasn’t somehow April 1st. No, it’s August. Huh. I don’t see how it’s possible that the pnpm maintainers are unaware of the bun AI-rewrite-to-rust saga… so I’m baffled, befuddled, and overall at a loss to make sense of this decision.
- GrayShade 2mo ago
  https://bun.com/blog/bun-v1.4 https://bun.com/blog/bun-v1.4 has some pretty nice numbers indeed.
- johnnypangs 2mo ago
  To be fair to the pnpm maintainers, they have been working on this well before the bun AI rewrite. The first commit in their rust experiment is in 2021. https://github.com/pnpm/pn/commits/main/?after=e24c0b293f1f43af7b0a9519e68e47d6ec6a3d80+69 https://github.com/pnpm/pn/commits/main/?after=e24c0b293f1f4...
- raincole 2mo ago
  Bun rewrite seems like a big success story.
- codeflo 2mo ago
  > unaware of the bun AI-rewrite-to-rust saga I seem to be mostly unaware, at least, it's not self-explanatory to me why a Rust rewrite would be that baffling. What's the verdict on the Bun rewrite, and how does that relate to pnpm's decision? Also, wasn't Bun switching from Zig to Rust instead of from TypeScript to Rust like pnpm? I get the impression that many web infrastructure projects have been switching to more native languages.
  - fwlr 2mo ago
    I expect the pnpm maintainers to be familiar with it because bun is one of the other three or four major JavaScript package managers. To put it another way, if you gathered up the 100 people in the world working on the most similar problems to pnpm’s own work, like 15 or 20 of them would be working on bun. I believe the objective verdict on the rewrite is “actually, everything went better than expected”, but it was and seemingly still is quite controversial and engendered a fair bit of bad blood, which I would have thought would be undesirable or demotivating to maintainers.
norman784 2mo ago
I got to the conclusion that boring is good enough, for me NPM is the best tool, is not that fast, but the installation speed is not that bad, considering how many times I need to run from scratch, the difference does not matter, it is stable and it's the default Node package manager, so I don't need to bother to install in CI any other tool, etc. My experience for long living projects is to stick with the defaults, because in a few years third party tools will change, it happen to my team with Yarn classic, now that we are with vanilla Node and NPM no worries, same with 3rd party dependencies, just use as less as possible.
- taspeotis 2mo ago
  I have the same experience - npm was bad, now it is fast enough.
- Chyzwar 2mo ago
  Unless you care about security, stability, DX, speed and correctness then npm is fine choice.
- CraigJPerry 2mo ago
  Describing NPM as boring is a stretch. Given its security model, i think spicy is a far more apt label. I have switched to pnpm already.
- catlifeonmars 2mo ago
  Npm likes to run package lifecycle scripts of your dependencies by default. You have to explicitly opt out of this. It’s probably the worst package manager out of npm, pnpm, yarn, and bun.
- brazukadev 2mo ago
  yeah the problem is npm is now Microsoft, just like Github. I trust Node. I don't trust NPM.
knlam 2mo ago
just why pnpm? you are stable, you are loved by the community. Now you feel the need to throw it away to rewrite for what? Can anybody give me a good explaination
- cpursley 2mo ago
  Check the benchmarks, hopefully even more JS slop is converted to Rust for the sake of humanity.
deanc 2mo ago
I'm curious, as it's not mentioned, are there any performance improvements as part of this rewrite?
- __s 2mo ago
  https://pnpm.io/benchmarks https://pnpm.io/benchmarks yes
IanCal 2mo ago
I’m going to write a filter to remove comments that are just bitching about whether something is AI written or not. Seeing “slop” now starts to give me m$ vibes
- JodieBenitez 2mo ago
  Or downvote and then remove.
  - IanCal 2mo ago
    Or I could automate it. It’s so much of every post these days.
- brazukadev 2mo ago
  > Short-term AI/GPT/LLM consulting services to help you strategize, discuss, and navigate the rapidly evolving world of artificial intelligence.
  - IanCal 2mo ago
    Drop me an email if you’re after a quote.
coder-pm 2mo ago
They should focus on the tool, do not try to rewrite it… everyone tries to rewrite things to rust now, pnpm was already great alternative to npm - just keep improving it instead of rewriting:/

Pnpm 12.0

86 points by jcbhmr 2mo ago

ledoncool 2mo ago

Hooray!

mmmeff 2mo ago

Am I the only one that hates the decision to no longer support corepack?

catlifeonmars 2mo ago
Same here. Corepack was fine and there is already too much churn
joshuat 2mo ago
First I'm hearing of it, and it does dampen my enthusiasm for v12 a bit.
winterqt 2mo ago
Is "pnpm installs the other package managers" what you're talking about, or something else? That doesn't quite read like removing corepack support to me, though I might be missing something obvious.
- fatata123 2mo ago
  [dead]
mirekrusin 2mo ago
pnpm 12 supports corepack (or better phrased - corepack supports pnpm 12). they just don't recommend it. nodejs stopped bundling corepack since node 25, maybe you're referring to that?
Chyzwar 2mo ago
It is node.js core that decided to drop corepack, now both yarn and pnpm are build own version of that.
anon7000 2mo ago
I migrated a Node 24 repo to pnpm 12 and it works absolutely fine with corepack out of the box.

winterqt 2mo ago

Good to see the maintainers don't care enough to take the time to write a release blogpost themselves. sigh

paavohtl 2mo ago
I was also bothered by this. I don't care if you use LLMs to write most or all of your code, but at least have the courtesy of actually writing your blog posts & readmes, to demonstrate that you at least understand what the LLM generated for you.
techpression 2mo ago
Hey Claude, write in the worst possible claudism way you possibly can, and make it sound like every other text on the internet that is published nowadays. "This post covers what pnpm 12 adds that pnpm 11 never shipped."

magnio 2mo ago

The more I read these ass Claude Opus writings the more I believe AGI is further away from us.

zarzavat 2mo ago
I thought 'how bad can it be?', yet only three paragraphs in "a specifier now names a repository rather than choosing a transport" If you're going to serve us slop then at least serve us good slop, give it a pass through GPT 5.6 to clean up the English.
- deanc 2mo ago
  Maybe the author is a non-native English speaker, and this enables him to communicate things he's not able to do himself. Should OSS maintainers start hiring professional translators? Are you going to fund that? We really should stop jumping to conclusions and shaming people for using these tools just because you don't like the language of the LLM. How is a non native speaker meant to determine what is English slop and what isn't? I should also note, I am a native speaker. There's absolutely nothing wrong with what's written in the part you chose to paraphrase, and it makes sense to me.
  - veidr 2mo ago
    Ditto. I've started to wonder if the real problem with many of these complaints about LLM writing is actually reading comprehension.
  - fredrikholm 2mo ago
    This is a recent degradation; they've been writing blog entries for years. As a non native English speaker I can also attest to this trade being extremely demanding of English fluency: > public static void DoTheThing(Configuration config) Isn't something you can not understand and still function as a software engineer. Yes, some schools and universities teach in other languages, but the entire ecosystem from code to documentation to articles is nearly almost always in English.

BlueGreenMagick 2mo ago

> It is a rewrite of pnpm in Rust Their benchmarks[0] report that a clean install with lockfile is about 3x times faster (7s -> 2.2s) and a no-op install is about 29x times faster (517ms -> 18ms) [0]: https://pnpm.io/benchmarks https://pnpm.io/benchmarks

xiaoyu2006 2mo ago

Time to hop off I guess. They don't even bother to write changlog on their own.

jdkoeck 2mo ago
Same here, what if the internals get the same absence of care? No thank you.
- afiori 2mo ago
  For a lot of people writing prose is a chore

1matin 2mo ago

Whenever you see a lot of long dashes (—) in a writing, there's a high chance Claude has written it.

sevg 2mo ago
In this case, the emdashes are just tip of the iceberg. The writing is so Claude that it’s painful to read (and in fact I stopped reading to save my mental health).
veidr 2mo ago
This heuristic is commonly believed — and expressed on this website — but is idiotic. Plenty of people have known how to use em dashes when writing on a computer since the 1980s. (This was true even before UTF-8 was invented to make extended characters work across platforms; instead of ⌘⇧-hyphen, we'd just type "--" to approximate it.) The reason LLMs tend to use a lot of em dashes is that the human-authored texts they were trained on used a lot of em dashes.
- smt88 2mo ago
  This is untrue and a naive understanding of modern model training. Opus 5 does not speak like a normal, average, or common English user. For example, it says “stated plainly” or “worth stating plainly” (two very uncommon English phrases) every two or three responses.
- tgv 2mo ago
  > Plenty of people have known how to use em dashes Plenty? I don't think it's that many. And knowing how to use them, doesn't mean they would actually use them. In my experience, em dashes are mainly found in academic literature. Chances that an em dash in a new text comes from an LLM are pretty high. Your use of it is dubious, I think. Commas would serve equally well --or better-- since it's a simple conjunction, not an interjection.
  - dkdbejwi383 2mo ago
    Markdown is ubiquitous in the kinds of places Hacker News visitors also tend to visit, like GitHub, various ticketing and project management systems like Jira, note takers like Obsidian and Notion (or an approximation of Markdown). I've used `--` for years in place of an em-dash, which markdown renders as an actual em-dash.

fwlr 2mo ago

Had to check the calendar to be sure it wasn’t somehow April 1st. No, it’s August. Huh. I don’t see how it’s possible that the pnpm maintainers are unaware of the bun AI-rewrite-to-rust saga… so I’m baffled, befuddled, and overall at a loss to make sense of this decision.

GrayShade 2mo ago
https://bun.com/blog/bun-v1.4 https://bun.com/blog/bun-v1.4 has some pretty nice numbers indeed.
johnnypangs 2mo ago
To be fair to the pnpm maintainers, they have been working on this well before the bun AI rewrite. The first commit in their rust experiment is in 2021. https://github.com/pnpm/pn/commits/main/?after=e24c0b293f1f43af7b0a9519e68e47d6ec6a3d80+69 https://github.com/pnpm/pn/commits/main/?after=e24c0b293f1f4...
raincole 2mo ago
Bun rewrite seems like a big success story.
codeflo 2mo ago
> unaware of the bun AI-rewrite-to-rust saga I seem to be mostly unaware, at least, it's not self-explanatory to me why a Rust rewrite would be that baffling. What's the verdict on the Bun rewrite, and how does that relate to pnpm's decision? Also, wasn't Bun switching from Zig to Rust instead of from TypeScript to Rust like pnpm? I get the impression that many web infrastructure projects have been switching to more native languages.
- fwlr 2mo ago
  I expect the pnpm maintainers to be familiar with it because bun is one of the other three or four major JavaScript package managers. To put it another way, if you gathered up the 100 people in the world working on the most similar problems to pnpm’s own work, like 15 or 20 of them would be working on bun. I believe the objective verdict on the rewrite is “actually, everything went better than expected”, but it was and seemingly still is quite controversial and engendered a fair bit of bad blood, which I would have thought would be undesirable or demotivating to maintainers.

norman784 2mo ago

I got to the conclusion that boring is good enough, for me NPM is the best tool, is not that fast, but the installation speed is not that bad, considering how many times I need to run from scratch, the difference does not matter, it is stable and it's the default Node package manager, so I don't need to bother to install in CI any other tool, etc. My experience for long living projects is to stick with the defaults, because in a few years third party tools will change, it happen to my team with Yarn classic, now that we are with vanilla Node and NPM no worries, same with 3rd party dependencies, just use as less as possible.

taspeotis 2mo ago
I have the same experience - npm was bad, now it is fast enough.
Chyzwar 2mo ago
Unless you care about security, stability, DX, speed and correctness then npm is fine choice.
CraigJPerry 2mo ago
Describing NPM as boring is a stretch. Given its security model, i think spicy is a far more apt label. I have switched to pnpm already.
catlifeonmars 2mo ago
Npm likes to run package lifecycle scripts of your dependencies by default. You have to explicitly opt out of this. It’s probably the worst package manager out of npm, pnpm, yarn, and bun.
brazukadev 2mo ago
yeah the problem is npm is now Microsoft, just like Github. I trust Node. I don't trust NPM.

knlam 2mo ago

just why pnpm? you are stable, you are loved by the community. Now you feel the need to throw it away to rewrite for what? Can anybody give me a good explaination

cpursley 2mo ago
Check the benchmarks, hopefully even more JS slop is converted to Rust for the sake of humanity.

deanc 2mo ago

I'm curious, as it's not mentioned, are there any performance improvements as part of this rewrite?

__s 2mo ago
https://pnpm.io/benchmarks https://pnpm.io/benchmarks yes

IanCal 2mo ago

I’m going to write a filter to remove comments that are just bitching about whether something is AI written or not. Seeing “slop” now starts to give me m$ vibes

JodieBenitez 2mo ago
Or downvote and then remove.
- IanCal 2mo ago
  Or I could automate it. It’s so much of every post these days.
brazukadev 2mo ago
> Short-term AI/GPT/LLM consulting services to help you strategize, discuss, and navigate the rapidly evolving world of artificial intelligence.
- IanCal 2mo ago
  Drop me an email if you’re after a quote.

coder-pm 2mo ago

They should focus on the tool, do not try to rewrite it… everyone tries to rewrite things to rust now, pnpm was already great alternative to npm - just keep improving it instead of rewriting:/