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I can feel the scores of messages being sent to the federal government from lobbyists saying what a threat Chinese hardware is to national security.
by fishfasell 1mo ago
I can feel the scores of messages being sent to the federal government from lobbyists saying what a threat Chinese hardware is to national security.
- deleted 1mo ago[deleted]
- palmotea 1mo ago> I can feel the scores of messages being sent to the federal government from lobbyists saying what a threat Chinese hardware is to national security. The motivation for such messages may be greedy, but it doesn't mean the facts aren't wrong: 1. As a practical matter, no one can audit systems so thoroughly to determine a system built by an adversary won't act adversarially. 2. Free market incentives work counter to national security all the time, in many ways (e.g. causing domestic capabilities to wither and die).
- cyanydeez 1mo agoOH, BUT we have fable! We have AI! of course we can answer these questions? can't we? which is true: America's AI is a super powerful defense against our enemies or America's AI is too stupid to defend against such a threat, and only sactions and import controls will suffice. Just seems like you're inventing things to be scared of.
- NoidFonsense 1mo agoit's a hardware problem, you run into engineering, materials, and physics issues. we're not talking about reverse engineering software
- cyanydeez 1mo agoyeah, haven't you heard AI is magic.
- paxys 1mo agoCan we audit American corporations?
- ryandrake 1mo agoAlso, who decides which entities are adversaries? I don't personally consider "China" my adversary. As an American who has to deal with US companies, many of them are far more antagonistic to me than a foreign country 10K km away. If "China" decides it doesn't like me, my life really isn't going to change much. If my electric company decides it doesn't like me, I'm in big trouble.
- thesmtsolver2 1mo agoWhat about Russia and Ukraine?
- lostlogin 1mo agoThe answer varies depending on the day.
- B1FF_PSUVM 1mo ago"Two bald men fighting for a comb", both in demographic collapse and set afire for the usual reasons.
- mring33621 1mo agoYeah, I don't want China as an adversary. It appears to me that it is a country full of fun, smart and interesting people. And their manufacturing prowess is incredible. I'm into funny electric vehicles and China makes some beauties!
- fleroviumna 1mo ago[dead]
- lenerdenator 1mo ago
- sleepgummies 1mo ago[dead]
- like_any_other 1mo ago3. China was not stupid enough to rely solely on the free market to develop strategic industries. A few deliberately old sources to show this is not a sudden new development: Back in 2014, the central government set up the China National Integrated Circuit Industry Investment Fund. - https://www.scmp.com/tech/enterprises/article/2145422/how-chinas-big-fund-helping-country-catch-global-semiconductor-race https://www.scmp.com/tech/enterprises/article/2145422/how-ch... Over the next decade, China plans to invest up to RMB 1 trillion (US$161 billion) into its domestic semiconductor industry as it seeks to become a global power in the sector. In recent years, Beijing has repeatedly stated that developing its own integrated circuit (IC) industry is of integral national strategic concern. - https://www.china-briefing.com/news/chips-all-in-investing-in-chinas-semiconductor-industry https://www.china-briefing.com/news/chips-all-in-investing-i... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Integrated_Circuit_Industry_Investment_Fund https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Integrated_Circuit_Indus...
- palmotea 1mo ago> 3. China was not stupid enough to rely solely on the free market to develop strategic industries. A few deliberately old sources: Yeah, I agree. The US and its allies took the wrong lessons from the economic aspect of the cold war. They saw Western capitalism out-perform Soviet central planning, then let capitalist ideologues run amok. China has the advantage: since it's not run by capitalist ideologues it better able to correct the deficiencies of capitalism AND it can exploit predictable capitalist behavior for strategic advantage.
- zer00eyz 1mo ago> Over the next decade That was a 2016 article. We're at the other end of that investment. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZSvDYDfd78 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZSvDYDfd78 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBhQrz9EJ40 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBhQrz9EJ40 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KrdcTsScKk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KrdcTsScKk It did not quite turn out like china wanted. This isn't to be dismissive of what they ARE delivering - china has the potential to be very big in RAM, and Storage in the comming decades. But I'm not sure that they met their industrial and geopolitical goals with these efforts.
- throwaw12 1mo agoTo make conversation productive, please define "national security" in this case. For example, if China can't install its hardware in Pentagon, why is it a threat to national security. On the other hand, if you say, Intel will be in trouble because of these chips, then I would say, so what? Wasn't this a dream of MBAs, educated by the top US schools, to outsource everything in business to cheaper service providers (e.g. manufacturing to China, software development to India and etc,.) Where is the threat and what is the threat?
- like_any_other 1mo ago"To make conversation productive, please explain how outsourcing your strategic industry and know-how to geopolitical rivals and enemies is a threat." You have a funny definition of "productive".
- nixuserb58 1mo agoThis is essentially asking every country in the world to be subservient to US tech in perpetuity. They didn't sign up for that.
- B1FF_PSUVM 1mo agoIn the 1980s, when Japanese firms were 7 of top-10 in world market cap, the trade magazines were screaming about Japanese fifth gen computers, silicon prowess, etc. and cyberpunk SF mandatorily had Japanese locales thrown in ...
- wolvesechoes 1mo agoBut Meta can share with NSA what kind of porn are you into or that you've said few bad words about US president, whilst CCP doesn't care, so who is a real adversary?! By the way I am an INDIVIDUAL, my personal FREEDOM and FEELINGS are all that matter. China didn't hurt my feelings, domestic companies or politicians did, so, again, who's a real adversary now, huh?!
- lenerdenator 1mo agoI mean, yeah? It's generally a bad idea to use information-handling hardware from your main geopolitical rival.
- lostlogin 1mo agoIt can be confusing to follow who the rivals are. Russia and North Korea are friends and Canada is the enemy. China seems more liked than Canada.
- lenerdenator 1mo agoIt's only confusing if you take a buffoon's attitude at face value, which is rather hard to do in a country where half of the people actively work to thwart what he does. Which brings me back to my point about totalitarianism.
- SigmundA 1mo agoI wonder if the Trump T2 phone will get this chip.
- Forgeties79 1mo agoMan I forgot about that nonsense. I can’t imagine any self respecting person picking one up.
- mlnj 1mo agoStill a massive market looks like.
- Forgeties79 1mo agoLast i read most of the money came from people not reading the fine print on their $100 deposit and only a few thousand have actually been distributed. Looking now I see maybe tens of thousands of open orders still
- jdiff 1mo ago"Looking now"? Is this something they publicize for some unknowable reason?
- Forgeties79 1mo agoI don’t want to get bogged down in a source dispute - this is very easy to search and/but I only spent about 60s on it. I am hardly an expert. Feel free to look it up as well and tell me how I am entirely wrong. This was a combination of AI responses + thumbing through the sources linked to make sure it wasn’t invented whole cloth. I do not think they are selling well. That seems to be the consensus here.
- jdiff 1mo agoI don't think they are selling well, either. I was wondering at your source since it would be very atypical for any company to give any numbers at all, let alone a company that's so outwardly sketchy, let alone numbers like "This is the number of orders we have standing open despite being actively in production." This is the exact kind of thing I would not expect to be easy to search, and it'd be ripe for AI hallucination. The only numbers I can find in a quick search of my own are the leaked numbers stating 30,000 orders placed from 10,000 customers, with nothing said about shipped orders.
- trynumber9 1mo agoIt's an ARM-designed CPU core, made in Taiwan. Very little difference from say MediaTek's upcoming Dimensity SoC just announced earlier because it is made on TSMC N3P instead of N2. I don't think they have any angle with that.
- doublepg23 1mo agoI'm not one to cry "foreign bots!" but this thread seems astroturfed after realizing this.
- deleted 1mo ago[deleted]
- paimapi 1mo agoyou say that like American lobbyists and Congress people are at-all technically minded and not just hyperbolic princes seeking influence at any cost
- pandemic_region 1mo agoTo be fair, describing the internet as a series of tubes is rather technical to some extent.
- sekh60 1mo agoIf they said "pipes" network admins probably would have given it a pass.
- paimapi 1mo agowe had one chance to elect that technocrat who could have set us on the path that the PRC is on now. instead, we decided it was more important to feel like we could have a beer with the President and so ended up invading Iraq and Afghanistan instead
- 1mo ago
- philistine 1mo agoAnd everybody forgets the true power of Apple: scale. Can that supposed miracle chip be readily found in million of phones within 6 months? Or will Xiaomi keep selling 90% of their phones with 2 year old chips, reserving these chips to their 2000$ foldables? This post serves Xiaomi because it implies competitiveness when the reality on the ground will remain unremarkable, and it helps fearmongers because they can latch on to Xiaomi's attempt to appear competitive.
- FpUser 1mo agoWhen I buy my phones I do not give a flying fuck about "scale". All I care is what do I get for my pesos from various offerings.
- cromka 1mo agoTheir power of scale applies to less and less regions. Xiaomi, in particular, delivers that to China where Apple previously slapped and now is becoming a niche player. It's the same as with German car makers. The trend have now reversed, with Chinese manufacturers starting to dominate on foreign markets and it's also something that was unfathomable just a few years back. They have proven countless of times by now that they are not to be ignored.
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- ex1fm3ta 1mo agosame playbook than Huawei
- EQFitzgerald 1mo agoXiaomi doesn't do business in the US anyway.
- tokioyoyo 1mo agoThe angle is to pressure other countries to ban them as well.