5 ms·

Elon burned too many bridges to warrant ever supporting anything he is associated with ever again.

timr 1mo ago
Sure, you can let politics dominate everything you do. Or you can realize that SpaceX is a massive (public) company with thousands of employees, and millions of shareholders, all of whom have their own opinions and goals, just like any other corporation. Competition is good. Excluding a leading player in the market because you don’t like Elon Musk is…something.
- seanmcdirmid 1mo ago
  If politics isn’t a concern, why not just use deepseek?
  - timr 1mo ago
    I am trying all of them. At this time, for me, Grok hits the sweet spot of quality, speed, cost and ease of use. I’m absolutely “hot money” when it comes to coding models. These things are commodities.
    - thefourthchime 1mo ago
      I recently tried a Cursor ultra and Grokbot. Holy shit, dude. Half the coding I do is for my phone now because Cursor Ultra agents have their own VMs that are spun up specifically for each project. Grok bot has a bunch of agents that'll share a VM and they can do pretty much anything you can do digitally. Right on I have them checking slick deals every morning for a pellet smoker. I had it book a date night for me. I had it fix one of my projects by rebuilding my website and republishing it and then checking one of the container runs to see if it has errors on it. I had a call different banks to figure out which phone navigation tree to get through and put someone on the phone for me, and then call me The list just goes on and on.
  - lostmsu 1mo ago
    DeepSeek is much dumber at the moment. It's barely better than Qwen3.8 27B that you can run locally.
    - seanmcdirmid 1mo ago
      I run both (I have an max with 64GB if ram, so local models get used a lot) and DeepSeek is definitely smarter in my experience. But again, I have my own way of using it that works for me.
  - baublet 1mo ago
    You know why
- btheunissen 1mo ago
  I’m more than happy to let SpaceX burn out over the next few years now that they’re public and their last quarter financials showed the emperor is without clothes (muh space datacenters).
  - drivebyhooting 1mo ago
    Because ULA and the senate launch system is better?
    - sharlos201068 1mo ago
      SpaceX's valuation is as an AI company that happens to launch rockets on the side.
      - drivebyhooting 1mo ago
        You can’t justify AI company valuations either. Only one of those capabilities can actually deliver kinetic solutions. Meanwhile big tech revenue is delivering ad solutions.
- Aurornis 1mo ago
  > Sure, you can let politics dominate everything you do. I assume they're referring to the recent discovery that Grok Build was uploading entire repositories to their servers in the background, include .env secrets that had been excluded https://gist.github.com/cereblab/dc9a40bc26120f4540e4e09b75ffb547 https://gist.github.com/cereblab/dc9a40bc26120f4540e4e09b75f... That incident has put Grok on the no-fly list for a lot of people and companies
  - timr 1mo ago
    It was a bug, and was immediately corrected. The other harnesses have bugs too. You just don't know about them. Frankly, the people who keep bringing this up are mostly engaged in motivated reasoning. I don't trust any company, and any product where I have to send my code to a third party to make it work is a devil's bargain. I don't trust any of the major labs, but it is what it is. The only way forward is local models, but we're not there yet.
    - sharlos201068 1mo ago
      There's a difference between not trusting a company because it's a company driven to chase profit at the expense of everything else, versus the same thing but it's run by a literal nazi that uses his companies as leverage to undermine democracy and enrich himself.
      - socalgal2 1mo ago
        Elon is not a literal Nazi.
        defrost 1mo ago
        Sure, way to young for that; but he is very much cut from the Nazi adjacent, racist, antisemitic, antidemocratic, technocratic views of his whole heartedly apartheid embracing grandfather Joshua N. Haldeman. His grandfather wrote his tracts to raise an alarm about what he called “mind control,” on the radio and television, where “an unconditional propaganda warfare is carried on against the White man.” ~ https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/the-world-according-to-elon-musks-grandfather https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/the-world-accor...
- sdthjbvuiiijbb 1mo ago
  Bizarre reply. It's not "dominating everything you do". It's one specific thing. Grok exists in a very crowded space and it's incredibly easy to not use it. If this is your reaction to someone taking a very easy stand on their personal principles, it does not reflect well on you.
  - timr 1mo ago
    "Bizarre" only in the sense that you're purposely trying not to understand. Literally every commodity product is in a crowded space, and easily substituted. If it's a good product (Grok Build objectively is one of the very best in the space), it's a good product, and it's self-defeating to avoid it because you hate a guy for political reasons. Just as it would be nonsensical to avoid shopping at WalMart, Target, or any of a million other places. Because I guarantee they're all associated with people you won't like.
    - sdthjbvuiiijbb 1mo ago
      On the contrary, I'm trying to understand as best I can. I find your position so completely devoid of any inkling of personal or social responsibility that it takes quite some empathy to muster up a reply that's not wildly uncivil. I also think it's callous to brush away "political reasons" as though it's some trivial abstract thing. Or perhaps it comes from a place of nihilism? I choose not to give my money to people I think are enormously evil. That's really all there is to it. I don't see why this is "nonsensical".
      - timr 1mo ago
        > I find your position so completely devoid of any inkling of personal or social responsibility that it takes quite some empathy to muster up a reply that's not wildly uncivil. Oh stop. Other people believe different things than you. If you cannot see how using a coding agent is not "devoid of personal or social responsibility", then you really need to step away from the keyboard.
        1mo ago
- oblio 1mo ago
  > Or you can realize that SpaceX is a massive (public) company with thousands of employees, and millions of shareholders, all of whom have their own opinions and goals, just like any other corporation. Do you have ANY idea about the SpaceX corporate structure? Elon is basically SpaceX's Sun God and the other shareholders don't matter. Plus SpaceX is incorporated in Texas where I'm fairly sure the legal system is arranged in such a way that it's supremely hard to contest anything in terms of corporate decisions. As far as the average person cares, every SpaceX shareholder and employee is basically an Elon sharecropper and they matter less than Musk's toenails in terms of corporate decision making.
inquirerGeneral 1mo ago
[dead]
thefourthchime 1mo ago
Just when I think this place is better than Reddit, here we are.
thefourthchime 1mo ago
Do you know the political leanings of every CEO of every product you buy?

timr 1mo ago

Sure, you can let politics dominate everything you do. Or you can realize that SpaceX is a massive (public) company with thousands of employees, and millions of shareholders, all of whom have their own opinions and goals, just like any other corporation. Competition is good. Excluding a leading player in the market because you don’t like Elon Musk is…something.

seanmcdirmid 1mo ago
If politics isn’t a concern, why not just use deepseek?
- timr 1mo ago
  I am trying all of them. At this time, for me, Grok hits the sweet spot of quality, speed, cost and ease of use. I’m absolutely “hot money” when it comes to coding models. These things are commodities.
  - thefourthchime 1mo ago
    I recently tried a Cursor ultra and Grokbot. Holy shit, dude. Half the coding I do is for my phone now because Cursor Ultra agents have their own VMs that are spun up specifically for each project. Grok bot has a bunch of agents that'll share a VM and they can do pretty much anything you can do digitally. Right on I have them checking slick deals every morning for a pellet smoker. I had it book a date night for me. I had it fix one of my projects by rebuilding my website and republishing it and then checking one of the container runs to see if it has errors on it. I had a call different banks to figure out which phone navigation tree to get through and put someone on the phone for me, and then call me The list just goes on and on.
- lostmsu 1mo ago
  DeepSeek is much dumber at the moment. It's barely better than Qwen3.8 27B that you can run locally.
  - seanmcdirmid 1mo ago
    I run both (I have an max with 64GB if ram, so local models get used a lot) and DeepSeek is definitely smarter in my experience. But again, I have my own way of using it that works for me.
- baublet 1mo ago
  You know why
btheunissen 1mo ago
I’m more than happy to let SpaceX burn out over the next few years now that they’re public and their last quarter financials showed the emperor is without clothes (muh space datacenters).
- drivebyhooting 1mo ago
  Because ULA and the senate launch system is better?
  - sharlos201068 1mo ago
    SpaceX's valuation is as an AI company that happens to launch rockets on the side.
    - drivebyhooting 1mo ago
      You can’t justify AI company valuations either. Only one of those capabilities can actually deliver kinetic solutions. Meanwhile big tech revenue is delivering ad solutions.
Aurornis 1mo ago
> Sure, you can let politics dominate everything you do. I assume they're referring to the recent discovery that Grok Build was uploading entire repositories to their servers in the background, include .env secrets that had been excluded https://gist.github.com/cereblab/dc9a40bc26120f4540e4e09b75ffb547 https://gist.github.com/cereblab/dc9a40bc26120f4540e4e09b75f... That incident has put Grok on the no-fly list for a lot of people and companies
- timr 1mo ago
  It was a bug, and was immediately corrected. The other harnesses have bugs too. You just don't know about them. Frankly, the people who keep bringing this up are mostly engaged in motivated reasoning. I don't trust any company, and any product where I have to send my code to a third party to make it work is a devil's bargain. I don't trust any of the major labs, but it is what it is. The only way forward is local models, but we're not there yet.
  - sharlos201068 1mo ago
    There's a difference between not trusting a company because it's a company driven to chase profit at the expense of everything else, versus the same thing but it's run by a literal nazi that uses his companies as leverage to undermine democracy and enrich himself.
    - socalgal2 1mo ago
      Elon is not a literal Nazi.
      - defrost 1mo ago
        Sure, way to young for that; but he is very much cut from the Nazi adjacent, racist, antisemitic, antidemocratic, technocratic views of his whole heartedly apartheid embracing grandfather Joshua N. Haldeman. His grandfather wrote his tracts to raise an alarm about what he called “mind control,” on the radio and television, where “an unconditional propaganda warfare is carried on against the White man.” ~ https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/the-world-according-to-elon-musks-grandfather https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/the-world-accor...
sdthjbvuiiijbb 1mo ago
Bizarre reply. It's not "dominating everything you do". It's one specific thing. Grok exists in a very crowded space and it's incredibly easy to not use it. If this is your reaction to someone taking a very easy stand on their personal principles, it does not reflect well on you.
- timr 1mo ago
  "Bizarre" only in the sense that you're purposely trying not to understand. Literally every commodity product is in a crowded space, and easily substituted. If it's a good product (Grok Build objectively is one of the very best in the space), it's a good product, and it's self-defeating to avoid it because you hate a guy for political reasons. Just as it would be nonsensical to avoid shopping at WalMart, Target, or any of a million other places. Because I guarantee they're all associated with people you won't like.
  - sdthjbvuiiijbb 1mo ago
    On the contrary, I'm trying to understand as best I can. I find your position so completely devoid of any inkling of personal or social responsibility that it takes quite some empathy to muster up a reply that's not wildly uncivil. I also think it's callous to brush away "political reasons" as though it's some trivial abstract thing. Or perhaps it comes from a place of nihilism? I choose not to give my money to people I think are enormously evil. That's really all there is to it. I don't see why this is "nonsensical".
    - timr 1mo ago
      > I find your position so completely devoid of any inkling of personal or social responsibility that it takes quite some empathy to muster up a reply that's not wildly uncivil. Oh stop. Other people believe different things than you. If you cannot see how using a coding agent is not "devoid of personal or social responsibility", then you really need to step away from the keyboard.
      - 1mo ago
oblio 1mo ago
> Or you can realize that SpaceX is a massive (public) company with thousands of employees, and millions of shareholders, all of whom have their own opinions and goals, just like any other corporation. Do you have ANY idea about the SpaceX corporate structure? Elon is basically SpaceX's Sun God and the other shareholders don't matter. Plus SpaceX is incorporated in Texas where I'm fairly sure the legal system is arranged in such a way that it's supremely hard to contest anything in terms of corporate decisions. As far as the average person cares, every SpaceX shareholder and employee is basically an Elon sharecropper and they matter less than Musk's toenails in terms of corporate decision making.

inquirerGeneral 1mo ago

[dead]

thefourthchime 1mo ago

Just when I think this place is better than Reddit, here we are.

thefourthchime 1mo ago

Do you know the political leanings of every CEO of every product you buy?