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This was totally the right move, if for no other reason than it's the only thing that this US admin will respect in the long run. Being in Canada though this d

This was totally the right move, if for no other reason than it's the only thing that this US admin will respect in the long run. Being in Canada though this does look v. short sighted of the US. All this is going to achieve is pushing Canada much closer to other countries, particularly China, which at least superficially these negotiations were meant to prevent.

spiderfarmer 2mo ago
> it's the only thing that this US admin will respect in the long run They don't respect anything. They stand for nothing. Their only concern is to pay lip service to Trump's crazy ideas.
- dgellow 2mo ago
  They stand for Project 2025 and the Maralago Accord, and the ideology behind them. So far they followed both projects quite closely. Trump is a tool they have to manage to reach their goals Also, of course, extracting as much money from the state as possible
  - JKCalhoun 2mo ago
    Had to look up "Maralago Accord": https://marketwise.com/investing/what-is-the-mar-a-lago-accord/ https://marketwise.com/investing/what-is-the-mar-a-lago-acco... Wow, a global Great Depression II really does look like it is in the cards.
    - spiderfarmer 2mo ago
      Those people always assume like the US can do stuff in a vacuum. And they always underestimate how smart other economies will respond to the chaos. Most big economies are in a better position than the USA.
    - dgellow 2mo ago
      FWIW it’s what Vance has been hinting at multiple times in recent public statements, and what Bessents seems to be following
- microtonal 2mo ago
  Trump's crazy ideas s/Trump.*ideas/Line their own pockets/ For example, the first tariff wave was a huge transfer of wealth from citizens to corporations in the OBBBA. First, the income from tariffs was projected to offset the tax cuts for the rich and corporations. Then, when the Supreme Court found them unlawful, the money had to be returned. But first the corporations let consumers pay the tariffs by increasing product prices, but now it is the same companies who get the tariff refunds. And since they are obviously not going to give the money back to the customer, it lined their pockets.
bhouston 2mo ago
> This was totally the right move, if for no other reason than it's the only thing that this US admin will respect in the long run. Unfortunately, Canada (where I live) will feel way more pain from this than the US. I am not sure Trump will have respect for this at all, but the alternative was to put in a permanent trade deal that significant disadvantaged Canada.
- dsr_ 2mo ago
  You can't respect someone who doesn't respect their self. It's a mistake to attribute personality features to countries, but not to their leaders. Similarly, people who don't have self-respect don't respect others.
- LeBit 2mo ago
  As a Canadian, I am willing to suffer if it means long term benefits. Carney is very popular for a reason.
  - poncho_romero 2mo ago
    No deal is better than a bad deal.
    - koolba 2mo ago
      No deal is a bad deal. Just for an indefinite term.
      - ceejayoz 2mo ago
        Trump’s deals also are of indefinite terms. Ask the Saudis - their big nuclear deal fell apart within a day as Trump added new conditions out of thin air.
      - kannanvijayan 2mo ago
        Is anyone else getting that feeling about hearing the world "deal" so much that it's losing any meaning whatsoever? What exactly does this word mean? It definitely doesn't mean a stable set of agreements that can be relied upon to ensure a stable future business environment. That's not in the cards. What I suspect Carney is doing, and fully support as a Canadian, is running down the clock. An agreement is America isn't worth anything without leverage to back it. The main goal is to stall to delay the damage as much as possible while diversifying away our economic dependence on the US. There is no other long-term goal - everything else is just appearances and showmanship.
pluc 2mo ago
The problem is they're also stifling trade with China. We still have quotas on Chinese cars so that they don't flood the market with affordable cars to preserve our (yours and ours) inferior car industry. It's basically what Canada is doing to the US with dairy, except with Chinese cars.
- fidotron 2mo ago
  What is going to happen is this lack of deal will accelerate the (inevitable) decline of the Canadian car industry, which will reduce objections to the Chinese imports leading to those quotas changing in an ever accelerating feedback loop. From the US strategic perspective this is moving out of the frying pan and into the fire.
  - THX1137 2mo ago
    It's so obvious that you'd think its intentional.
  - AlexandrB 2mo ago
    Canada having closer trade ties with China is also a case of "out of the frying pan and into the fire" for Canada.
    - fooster 2mo ago
      I didn’t see china calling to annex Canada. The bad relations between china and Canada were also principally caused by the US insisting that we detain Meng Wanzhou. We can see what thanks we got for that.
    - gmerc 2mo ago
      Why? China taking the goods we sell to the US seems like a good deal for us. They won’t copy our dairy or oil and if they want to assemble their EVs here and give us free AI, it’s a clear win win.
  - WarmWash 2mo ago
    I think people forget that China is an authoritarian ethno state with a single leader for life. But hey, they have cheap shit, so what better wagon to hitch your country to?
tw04 2mo ago
As I’ve said from the beginning, just ask yourself: what would Putin want? Every baffling, self destructive move Trump makes, basically always aligns to a long stated goal of Russia.
- fidotron 2mo ago
  Putin wanted Trump to decapitate the Iranian regime? Let's be serious, that has nothing to do with the Canadian situation, which has more than enough going on without needing to imagine things. Edit to add: the extent to which many of you will apparently blame anything and everything on Putin is extraordinary. Just because the sun shines on Putin as well does not mean he made it do so.
  - kabes 2mo ago
    But it has turned out positive for Russia. Not enough patriot rockets for Ukraine, sanctions against Russia lifted and higher oil prices.
    - luke5441 2mo ago
      Clearly Putin is playing 4D chess /s. Having all the main export infrastructure blown up by Ukraine is also part of the plan.
      - kabes 2mo ago
        Please read the discussion before you comment. Infrastructure damage is because of Ukraine's actions, not because of trump. We were discussing trump's actions benefiting Russia. Not saying it's on purpose, probably incompetence.
        luke5441 2mo ago
        The discussion is if Trump is Putins puppet or not. Seems like you agree with fidotron that is is just incompetence, so you should not have argued against him.
heresie-dabord 2mo ago
Trump and MAGA have destroyed the good relationships and trust that the US had built throughout the world. Canada's Prime Minister wrote [1]: "We have recognised from the beginning that America has changed, and that we will not return to our old relationship. Our government understood, before many, that America is altering all its trade relationships. Putting tariffs on its closest allies and charging for access to its vast market." [1] _ https://www.pm.gc.ca/en/news/statements/2026/08/21/statement-prime-minister-carney-canada-us-trade-negotiations https://www.pm.gc.ca/en/news/statements/2026/08/21/statement...
- Ziomislaw 2mo ago
  I would not call it good relationship, US just stopped pretending, that is all. They were always a global threat. I am happy US delusions finally forced everyone to stop pretending too, because the cost of it got too large. Splendid.
  - estearum 2mo ago
    Being a global threat but "pretending" so well to be a good faith actor that people treat you and engage with you as a good faith actor, is literally the same as just being a good faith actor. The US was a good faith actor, especially relative to its power. Now it is not. It is not good for the world's most powerful military and economy to stop "pretending" to be a good faith actor, and it is not something you should find any joy in.
    - notahacker 2mo ago
      Above all the US was a predictable actor. Sure, its terms of trade were designed to favour US companies and maybe it wasn't fair that you had to be an exceptional diplomat to stay on amicable terms with them if you were at least notionally a radical socialist whilst the brutal dictatorship next door got a free pass on its excesses because it had defeated the radical socialists or was open to US investment and fully committed to keeping the oil flowing, but you knew what they wanted from you. I mean, in a way Trump's tendency to back out of everything, good or bad and base his entire foreign policy relationship with your country based on who he last spoke to is predictable, but predictable in a way the only winning move with US relationships is not to play I'll throw in China, which might want whats best for Chinese influence even more than it wants to sell you cheap consumer goods, but it's also very, very predictable in what it wants from any sort of international agreement with you and these days has an abundance of capital and the ability to sell you most things the US can sell you for less...
TheSkyHasEyes 2mo ago
> All this is going to achieve is pushing Canada much closer to other countries The world is watching this story just like the world watched Davos. Last night will encourage further decoupling of the US for nations other than Canada. idk if Trump 2028 will happen or not. I will say with conviction no matter who is in office by then will not rebuild trust around the world in their tenure. Too much damage is done to the US's reputation.
- gWPVhyxPHqvk 2mo ago
  > I will say with conviction no matter who is in office by then will not rebuild trust around the world in their tenure. Too much damage is done to the US's reputation. The only way that the US can start rebuilding this trust is that the incoming Democratic President and Congress (assuming we are so lucky) immediately starts by prosecuting Trump and his family (and results in actual jail time, not just fines or small stays), zero out their government contracts, fire most of the people installed in government since 2025, expand the Supreme Court, and remove the fillibuster. I know people think ideas like that are extreme, but really, what else is going to convince the rest of the world that the US has cleaned up their act? It has to start at home first.
  - HEmanZ 2mo ago
    There is absolutely nothing that will end American democracy faster than jailing Trump. The moment it becomes clear that the cost of losing is personal jail time for you and your family, every politician in the game has to start playing for blood, and everyone with power has to chose rubicon or jail. If Trump goes to prison, that’s when I leave, because that will be the moment historians point to as “no going back”.
    - krapp 2mo ago
      The United States isn't a monarchy, we fought a whole war to establish that. Our leaders aren't meant to be above the law. If our "democracy" can't survive putting even a President in jail for their crimes than it doesn't deserve to survive. And I reject your premise that putting one's leaders in jail will only lead to an infinite spiral of partisan kangaroo courts because other democracies manage to hold their leaders to legal account without going into a death spiral. And it's honestly weird and more than a bit disturbing how controversial that simple concept has become. I guess we really do want kings here.
cvwright 2mo ago
It’s curious how tariffs are always a bad move for the US, but always a good move for other countries.
01100011 2mo ago
The US admin is basically Trump. Saying Trump will respect Canadian strength shows you are making the same mistake other people keep making in thinking Trump is somehow like them or is consistent enough to predict. I don't think Trump is a rational actor. He is a collection of ephemeral positions lacking coherence accumulated from random sources.
- andrewflnr 2mo ago
  I think the Trump admin is more complicated than just Trump, if only because he doesn't have enough marbles left to run the whole thing. That said, power, pain, and dominance are the one thing he does actually understand, and that's what Canada is showing him. It's as close as we can get to a signal that will reach him and the varying grades of fool he surrounds himself with.
- rifty 2mo ago
  I would too argue it wouldn't be respect but he responds to lines when it's forced upon him for sake of making things difficult in the face him chasing easy wins. You need to prove to him that the reality and consequences you propose exist and are material. Does it guarantee better behaviour from him? No. Because he also has a vindictive side for which he will exercise if he sees a chance to be. But likely you'll experience different approaches despite chasing similar ends. But the audience of this transaction isn't just the microcosm of Trump in the world at large and time at long. Canadian's supporting their government standing on doing things the right way will set the right expectations for others when dealing with them.
chrisjj 2mo ago
> that this US admin will respect in the long run. Thankfully this US admin has ensured it won't have a long run.

spiderfarmer 2mo ago

> it's the only thing that this US admin will respect in the long run They don't respect anything. They stand for nothing. Their only concern is to pay lip service to Trump's crazy ideas.

dgellow 2mo ago
They stand for Project 2025 and the Maralago Accord, and the ideology behind them. So far they followed both projects quite closely. Trump is a tool they have to manage to reach their goals Also, of course, extracting as much money from the state as possible
- JKCalhoun 2mo ago
  Had to look up "Maralago Accord": https://marketwise.com/investing/what-is-the-mar-a-lago-accord/ https://marketwise.com/investing/what-is-the-mar-a-lago-acco... Wow, a global Great Depression II really does look like it is in the cards.
  - spiderfarmer 2mo ago
    Those people always assume like the US can do stuff in a vacuum. And they always underestimate how smart other economies will respond to the chaos. Most big economies are in a better position than the USA.
  - dgellow 2mo ago
    FWIW it’s what Vance has been hinting at multiple times in recent public statements, and what Bessents seems to be following
microtonal 2mo ago
Trump's crazy ideas s/Trump.*ideas/Line their own pockets/ For example, the first tariff wave was a huge transfer of wealth from citizens to corporations in the OBBBA. First, the income from tariffs was projected to offset the tax cuts for the rich and corporations. Then, when the Supreme Court found them unlawful, the money had to be returned. But first the corporations let consumers pay the tariffs by increasing product prices, but now it is the same companies who get the tariff refunds. And since they are obviously not going to give the money back to the customer, it lined their pockets.

bhouston 2mo ago

> This was totally the right move, if for no other reason than it's the only thing that this US admin will respect in the long run. Unfortunately, Canada (where I live) will feel way more pain from this than the US. I am not sure Trump will have respect for this at all, but the alternative was to put in a permanent trade deal that significant disadvantaged Canada.

dsr_ 2mo ago
You can't respect someone who doesn't respect their self. It's a mistake to attribute personality features to countries, but not to their leaders. Similarly, people who don't have self-respect don't respect others.
LeBit 2mo ago
As a Canadian, I am willing to suffer if it means long term benefits. Carney is very popular for a reason.
- poncho_romero 2mo ago
  No deal is better than a bad deal.
  - koolba 2mo ago
    No deal is a bad deal. Just for an indefinite term.
    - ceejayoz 2mo ago
      Trump’s deals also are of indefinite terms. Ask the Saudis - their big nuclear deal fell apart within a day as Trump added new conditions out of thin air.
    - kannanvijayan 2mo ago
      Is anyone else getting that feeling about hearing the world "deal" so much that it's losing any meaning whatsoever? What exactly does this word mean? It definitely doesn't mean a stable set of agreements that can be relied upon to ensure a stable future business environment. That's not in the cards. What I suspect Carney is doing, and fully support as a Canadian, is running down the clock. An agreement is America isn't worth anything without leverage to back it. The main goal is to stall to delay the damage as much as possible while diversifying away our economic dependence on the US. There is no other long-term goal - everything else is just appearances and showmanship.

pluc 2mo ago

The problem is they're also stifling trade with China. We still have quotas on Chinese cars so that they don't flood the market with affordable cars to preserve our (yours and ours) inferior car industry. It's basically what Canada is doing to the US with dairy, except with Chinese cars.

fidotron 2mo ago
What is going to happen is this lack of deal will accelerate the (inevitable) decline of the Canadian car industry, which will reduce objections to the Chinese imports leading to those quotas changing in an ever accelerating feedback loop. From the US strategic perspective this is moving out of the frying pan and into the fire.
- THX1137 2mo ago
  It's so obvious that you'd think its intentional.
- AlexandrB 2mo ago
  Canada having closer trade ties with China is also a case of "out of the frying pan and into the fire" for Canada.
  - fooster 2mo ago
    I didn’t see china calling to annex Canada. The bad relations between china and Canada were also principally caused by the US insisting that we detain Meng Wanzhou. We can see what thanks we got for that.
  - gmerc 2mo ago
    Why? China taking the goods we sell to the US seems like a good deal for us. They won’t copy our dairy or oil and if they want to assemble their EVs here and give us free AI, it’s a clear win win.
- WarmWash 2mo ago
  I think people forget that China is an authoritarian ethno state with a single leader for life. But hey, they have cheap shit, so what better wagon to hitch your country to?

tw04 2mo ago

As I’ve said from the beginning, just ask yourself: what would Putin want? Every baffling, self destructive move Trump makes, basically always aligns to a long stated goal of Russia.

fidotron 2mo ago
Putin wanted Trump to decapitate the Iranian regime? Let's be serious, that has nothing to do with the Canadian situation, which has more than enough going on without needing to imagine things. Edit to add: the extent to which many of you will apparently blame anything and everything on Putin is extraordinary. Just because the sun shines on Putin as well does not mean he made it do so.
- kabes 2mo ago
  But it has turned out positive for Russia. Not enough patriot rockets for Ukraine, sanctions against Russia lifted and higher oil prices.
  - luke5441 2mo ago
    Clearly Putin is playing 4D chess /s. Having all the main export infrastructure blown up by Ukraine is also part of the plan.
    - kabes 2mo ago
      Please read the discussion before you comment. Infrastructure damage is because of Ukraine's actions, not because of trump. We were discussing trump's actions benefiting Russia. Not saying it's on purpose, probably incompetence.
      - luke5441 2mo ago
        The discussion is if Trump is Putins puppet or not. Seems like you agree with fidotron that is is just incompetence, so you should not have argued against him.

heresie-dabord 2mo ago

Trump and MAGA have destroyed the good relationships and trust that the US had built throughout the world. Canada's Prime Minister wrote [1]: "We have recognised from the beginning that America has changed, and that we will not return to our old relationship. Our government understood, before many, that America is altering all its trade relationships. Putting tariffs on its closest allies and charging for access to its vast market." [1] _ https://www.pm.gc.ca/en/news/statements/2026/08/21/statement-prime-minister-carney-canada-us-trade-negotiations https://www.pm.gc.ca/en/news/statements/2026/08/21/statement...

Ziomislaw 2mo ago
I would not call it good relationship, US just stopped pretending, that is all. They were always a global threat. I am happy US delusions finally forced everyone to stop pretending too, because the cost of it got too large. Splendid.
- estearum 2mo ago
  Being a global threat but "pretending" so well to be a good faith actor that people treat you and engage with you as a good faith actor, is literally the same as just being a good faith actor. The US was a good faith actor, especially relative to its power. Now it is not. It is not good for the world's most powerful military and economy to stop "pretending" to be a good faith actor, and it is not something you should find any joy in.
  - notahacker 2mo ago
    Above all the US was a predictable actor. Sure, its terms of trade were designed to favour US companies and maybe it wasn't fair that you had to be an exceptional diplomat to stay on amicable terms with them if you were at least notionally a radical socialist whilst the brutal dictatorship next door got a free pass on its excesses because it had defeated the radical socialists or was open to US investment and fully committed to keeping the oil flowing, but you knew what they wanted from you. I mean, in a way Trump's tendency to back out of everything, good or bad and base his entire foreign policy relationship with your country based on who he last spoke to is predictable, but predictable in a way the only winning move with US relationships is not to play I'll throw in China, which might want whats best for Chinese influence even more than it wants to sell you cheap consumer goods, but it's also very, very predictable in what it wants from any sort of international agreement with you and these days has an abundance of capital and the ability to sell you most things the US can sell you for less...

TheSkyHasEyes 2mo ago

> All this is going to achieve is pushing Canada much closer to other countries The world is watching this story just like the world watched Davos. Last night will encourage further decoupling of the US for nations other than Canada. idk if Trump 2028 will happen or not. I will say with conviction no matter who is in office by then will not rebuild trust around the world in their tenure. Too much damage is done to the US's reputation.

gWPVhyxPHqvk 2mo ago
> I will say with conviction no matter who is in office by then will not rebuild trust around the world in their tenure. Too much damage is done to the US's reputation. The only way that the US can start rebuilding this trust is that the incoming Democratic President and Congress (assuming we are so lucky) immediately starts by prosecuting Trump and his family (and results in actual jail time, not just fines or small stays), zero out their government contracts, fire most of the people installed in government since 2025, expand the Supreme Court, and remove the fillibuster. I know people think ideas like that are extreme, but really, what else is going to convince the rest of the world that the US has cleaned up their act? It has to start at home first.
- HEmanZ 2mo ago
  There is absolutely nothing that will end American democracy faster than jailing Trump. The moment it becomes clear that the cost of losing is personal jail time for you and your family, every politician in the game has to start playing for blood, and everyone with power has to chose rubicon or jail. If Trump goes to prison, that’s when I leave, because that will be the moment historians point to as “no going back”.
  - krapp 2mo ago
    The United States isn't a monarchy, we fought a whole war to establish that. Our leaders aren't meant to be above the law. If our "democracy" can't survive putting even a President in jail for their crimes than it doesn't deserve to survive. And I reject your premise that putting one's leaders in jail will only lead to an infinite spiral of partisan kangaroo courts because other democracies manage to hold their leaders to legal account without going into a death spiral. And it's honestly weird and more than a bit disturbing how controversial that simple concept has become. I guess we really do want kings here.

cvwright 2mo ago

It’s curious how tariffs are always a bad move for the US, but always a good move for other countries.

01100011 2mo ago

The US admin is basically Trump. Saying Trump will respect Canadian strength shows you are making the same mistake other people keep making in thinking Trump is somehow like them or is consistent enough to predict. I don't think Trump is a rational actor. He is a collection of ephemeral positions lacking coherence accumulated from random sources.

andrewflnr 2mo ago
I think the Trump admin is more complicated than just Trump, if only because he doesn't have enough marbles left to run the whole thing. That said, power, pain, and dominance are the one thing he does actually understand, and that's what Canada is showing him. It's as close as we can get to a signal that will reach him and the varying grades of fool he surrounds himself with.
rifty 2mo ago
I would too argue it wouldn't be respect but he responds to lines when it's forced upon him for sake of making things difficult in the face him chasing easy wins. You need to prove to him that the reality and consequences you propose exist and are material. Does it guarantee better behaviour from him? No. Because he also has a vindictive side for which he will exercise if he sees a chance to be. But likely you'll experience different approaches despite chasing similar ends. But the audience of this transaction isn't just the microcosm of Trump in the world at large and time at long. Canadian's supporting their government standing on doing things the right way will set the right expectations for others when dealing with them.

chrisjj 2mo ago

> that this US admin will respect in the long run. Thankfully this US admin has ensured it won't have a long run.