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Friction drive e-bike conversions were popular years ago. They generally: * Wear tires surprisingly quickly * Absolutely suck in any form of weather or terra
by bri3d 2mo ago
Friction drive e-bike conversions were popular years ago.
They generally:
* Wear tires surprisingly quickly
* Absolutely suck in any form of weather or terrain condition (dirt, rain, etc.)
* Have ~20% less efficiency than any other drive form.
But, they are easy, and they do work.
- StopTencent 2mo agoTires wear out super fast. It's hard to say there is a market for this other than the uninformed.
- calmbonsai 2mo agoYeah. I don’t see weather or theft addressed in this design. I recall a wheel-mounted rotor system from a few years back that did address theft, tire-wear, and weather, but it suffered from far too little torque and very limited battery life.
- rtkwe 2mo agoIt looks like their solution is to make it easy enough to install and remove you take it with you. My thought would be security bolts so the pool of thieves is at least limited to people with the right bolt head. Also it has a big battery built in so
- SoftTalker 2mo agoThieves will just take the whole bike.
- Gigachad 2mo agoTbh solving this is one of the actual use cases for things like flock cameras. Simply bolting things down harder is still defeated by a battery powered grinder.
- jvuygbbkuurx 2mo agoIt's actually solved by putting thieves in prison (by the help of flock cameras).
- defrost 2mo agoIs it though? Does prison work as a deterrence to others?
- blfr 2mo agoThere's usually a fairly small number of criminals in the population and they have short careers. Otherwise, the whole enterprise of society wouldn't be viable. So once you take them off the streets for a couple of years, or decades for the more hardened ones, it's fine. It has an added benefit of breaking criminal networks so the future adepts have no place to fence the stolen goods.
- simondotau 2mo agoOn one hand, you’re breaking existing networks; on the other hand you are establishing a social club for new ones.
- KennyBlanken 2mo agoThat person is insanely naive - either very young, or very lacking in life experience and worldly knowledge.
- KennyBlanken 2mo ago"It has an added benefit of breaking criminal networks so the future adepts have no place to fence the stolen goods" is probably the most naive thing I've ever heard. I also think you have no idea how much it costs per prisoner per year. I also think you have no idea how much harder it is for someone to get a job, housing, a partner, etc after they have a conviction. Or how much whatever life they had falls apart, which includes partners, friends, family. And guess what happens when you strip away all of someone's social connections? They lose that safety net, and are now dependent upon whatever society as whole provides. And in the US we have people saying "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" non-ironically, not realizing the whole fucking point of that phrase is that recovering from poverty in the US is extremely difficult. That money is better spent on helping people who are not able to afford basic necessities, because that is why a lot of people commit property crime. I suggest you actually open up some studies on this subject because you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Or just open up a chart reflecting the economy over the decades and compare it with property crime rates. The US has the highest incarceration rate in the world by both headcount and percentage of the population. How's that working for us? We have one of the higher property and violent crime rates among developed nations. Far higher than nations where criminals are imprisoned for rehabilitation, not to punish. Things like giving them a cell that looks like a bedroom, not pen in an animal shelter.
- jszymborski 2mo agoMy bike is $100... If I can take off the $2k electric bike conversion kit and lug it with me, I'd sleep a lot better
- rtkwe 2mo agoThat's a problem people already deal with in a lot of ways mostly by being better locked up than other more stealable bikes. Bikes being stealable isn't exactly a knock against this if you can take it off easily either...
- neves 2mo agoCan't use with mud guards
- giardini 2mo agoAnd WTF is it about mud guards now? When i was young all bicycles came with mud guard (then called "fenders") front and rear. Now they seem to be anathema. Every bike I rode w/o fenders put a stripe of mud up my back!
- pjmlp 2mo agoBeing cynical I would say it is yet another way to upsell. Here in Germany if you want to get a cheaper bicycle, other than flea markets, usually they make you mount the pedals yourself, doesn't have fenders, lights might also be missing, depending on the offer.
- silversmith 2mo agoAre you looking at performance road bikes? Fenders and lights are removed for weight savings, and for pedals there are multiple clip-in systems, you are supposed to install the pedals that match your chosen system. If, however, they are doing that for commuter bikes...
- pjmlp 2mo agoRegular city bikes. This is the approach if you go offers on regular supermarkets that also sell bicycles. Personally I am never going to give more than 400 euros tops, for a new bicycle, it is either that or not much beyond 100 euros at a flea market. Getting the bicycle stolen or worse, revenge damage when they fail to steal it, is not worth more than that.
- Toutouxc 2mo agoI guess that’s the reason you don’t understand why bikes are sold without these things. €400 gets you a very, very, very low-end new bike, like just one step above “unsafe to ride”. You often don’t get pedals on new bikes because you have your favorite pedals that work for you and anything that’s included with the bike goes straight to the bin, because it’s useless trash. You don’t get fenders, because you don’t usually use those on any kind of sporty bike. They’re heavy, they don’t usually work that well, they are often hard to use in bikes with suspension with longer travel or and they can rattle or simply break and fall off if you ride hard. You don’t get lights and reflective elements, because they’re heavy plastic crap that breaks and falls off. If you often ride at night, you probably own some kind of night gear, high powered LEDs, reflective stickers or spokes… And obviously once that is the norm for “bikes” in general, then why not save a few cents on supermarket bikes.
- carlosjobim 2mo agoMillions and millions of people live in places where theft isn't a concern.
- f6v 2mo agoI live in the city considered to be one of the best to live in Europe. Bike theft is absolutely an issue here. I'm afraid to imagine what happens in other countries.
- carlosjobim 2mo agoHundreds of millions of people do not live in cities.
- Lord_Zero 2mo agoI had a gas powered goped that worked that way years ago. Had all those problems but it was fun. The second you hit any water the drive shaft would just spin against the tire.
- deleted 2mo ago[deleted]
- tadfisher 2mo agoThey could have made basically the same thing except with a sprocket to help drive the chain.
- ryukoposting 2mo agoChain moves side to side with gear changes, and adding extra chain tension with an extra drive sprocket could make the deraileur angry. Also, chain-tube geometry varies a lot. Not impossible, just more complicated than it might seem. I ride an all-original 1970s steel-frame road bike, which seems like a prime candidate for this sort of product. I'm certain no sprocket-based design would fit it. I'd buy one of these if there was any way to lock it up.
- andrewshadura 2mo agoIt does not if you use hub gears.
- Toutouxc 2mo agoYes, but a tiny minority of bikes use those, and the product is meant to go on existing bikes. Also, even on hub-geared bikes (or single-speeds) you’d still need to switch to a longer chain or significantly move the rear wheel to be able to mount the powered sprocket in the right place, so that it wouldn’t skip.
- andrewshadura 2mo agoNot a tiny minority. Depends on the country, of course, but from my experience the majority of city bikes use hub gears. And they can be retrofitted.
- Toutouxc 2mo agoGo ahead, sit down with a piece of paper and try to design it in a way that doesn’t prevent shifting, doesn’t skip under load, doesn’t require you to use a longer chain, works with rear suspension and doesn’t interfere with your legs.
- culi 2mo agoPersonally I also don't see the niche they serve. If I'm going far away I take a train or a car. I pretty much exclusively use my bike to ride to a nearby grocery store or do other close-by errands. If I'm doing short errands like this, I really prize being able to get on and off quickly and lock my bike up quickly. A device like this needs to be taken with you when you leave your bike to prevent theft. It's a whole nother step and a lot of extra weight
- edmundsauto 2mo agoAre you elderly, differently able, live in extremely hilly or hot terrain, or only willing to bike if it’s half the current effort? That plus “already has a bike” is a massive market.
- culi 2mo agoFair enough. I guess I should've said the niche in my own life. > That plus “already has a bike” is a massive market. I imagine people who are elderly or differently abled would benefit more from an e-bike which is competitively priced to a bike + this device which will likely cost more than $1,000.
- garciasn 2mo agoPeople who already invested in an expensive traditional bike and want to have the option to add electric support to make trips easier and faster without having to deal with selling their current bike and buying an even more expensive e-bike. There’s also the fact that many people have bike racks that are fine for traditional bikes but not the additional requirements necessary for some (most?) e-bikes such as weight and strength. —- Just because it doesn’t work for you and your specific worldview doesn’t mean others wouldn’t see value in it.
- whycome 2mo agoWhen I read your comment before the article I thought it was some sort of complicated contraption in multiple parts. Instead it seems pretty compact and easy to disengage. I’m not sure what you’re missing in terms of a niche either. Anyone who just wants to ride with less effort but use their existing bike?
- Fnoord 2mo agoLooks like you can't have a passenger anymore either. I like to have my kid on the backseat of my e-bike. I'm not in the market for this, but I am in the market for making my cargo bike electric. Having to slow down at a traffic light and then start from zero absolutely sucks. It goes very slow, it is rough, and you won't have time. I'd use it just for that specific use-case.
- caminante 2mo agoFront mount or trailer for kid could work, but this seems inferior to your ebike.
- Reason077 2mo agoConversion kits that add a front hub motor are relatively affordable and easy to install. Should work with most cargo bikes if you can find one that's compatible with your wheel size. Something like: https://swytchbike.com/ https://swytchbike.com/
- andrewshadura 2mo agoSwytch are great in marketing, not so much in engineering. Very proprietary system that keeps changing every year or so. We have one kit, but I'd not buy from them again.
- andrewshadura 2mo agoAlso: I'd not recommend hub motors with cargo bikes. There is a reason all cargo bike makers switched away from hub motors. They're low-power and often not strong enough mechanically.
- Reason077 2mo agoYes, there’s no doubt that mid-drive motors are the ideal. But in most cases, it’s not realistic or affordable to install a mid-drive motor as a retrofit. And not all hub motors are low-power. You can get Chinese ones with insane power output. (5000W! … just remember that Europe has strict power restrictions on e-bike motors.)
- ryukoposting 2mo agoAnd, don't forget: easy to steal off even a well-secured bicycle.
- Jerry2 2mo agoThat's not a problem in Asia.
- seanmcdirmid 2mo agoOnly because there are so many targets to steal from. And by Asia you mean China, where E bikes are rarely very fancy and often the size of a moped (except for the ride shares, which are still bricks and GPS tracked). And judging by the noise level at the hotel I stayed at in Chengdu a couple of weeks ago, they definitely come with theft alarms.
- wahnfrieden 2mo agoBike theft common in Japan
- deleted 2mo ago[deleted]
- szundi 2mo ago[dead]
- 59percentmore 2mo agoI'm curious what the implication of this blatantly false* statement is. *At the very least, you have to worry about Jackie Chan "borrowing" your wheels for a wacky chase scene. Based on my knowledge of Hong Kong cinema, this must happen at least once per week. Dude is a menace and a fiend.
- ciupicri 2mo ago"A team of Vidyadhar Nagar police arrested a bicycle thief and recovered 19 high-end cycles stolen from various neighborhoods in Jaipur Monday. DCP (North) Karan Sharma said that the accused, Rahil Swami alias Kabbu, is a resident of Old Vidyadhar Nagar and admitted to stealing over 50 bicycles." (https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/jaipur/police-arrest-notorious-bicycle-thief-recover-stolen-cycles/articleshow/123103918.cms https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/jaipur/police-arres...)
- MisterTea 2mo agoAre there any mechanically coupled solutions that can be field installed by the owner?
- flir 2mo agoSwytch Bike is one. Hub motor.
- andrewshadura 2mo agoThere's a bunch of motors installable instead of the bottom bracket. E.g. from Bafang. You just connect it to a battery and that's it. The controller's inbuilt.
- MisterTea 2mo agoThank you. Amusingly the Bafang kit is unable to be shipped to NY or so Amazon says. I'll have to do a bit of research but this is a good starting point.
- molsongolden 2mo agoThis bike booster will probably come in at less than half the cost but the Bimotal kit is another option that doesn't have the tire wear issue, offers better performance, and the form factor is much nicer. https://bimotal.com/products/elevate https://bimotal.com/products/elevate
- fwipsy 2mo agoWow, $2k? You could get a decent ebike for that money. And the installation doesn't look any easier than a hub motor... Only seems worth it if you already have an extremely nice bike. I think of friction drives as being aimed at budget-conscious commuters, not serious mountain bikers.
- KennyBlanken 2mo agoYou can get a nice ebike for that money if you're even slightly patient in waiting for a sale to hit.
- CitrusFruits 2mo agoBimotal is removable after the installation: the motor and battery can both be taken off in under 30 seconds and you're left with just the cables and a specialized brake disc. I'd say that's its main differentiator. It is definitely more for premium bikes though and even then isn't for everyone.
- flexagoon 2mo ago> Only seems worth it if you already have an extremely nice bike How nice should one's bike be that you'd rather turn it into a mediocre ebike for the price of buying a good ebike?
- DonHopkins 2mo agoExtrordinarily nice! AAH! HA HA! HA HA! AAH! GERONIMO! HA HA! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wg_1LOYLPsM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wg_1LOYLPsM
- 2mo ago
- taneq 2mo agoI remember back in the 90s some guys at my school fitted a whipper snipper motor to a 12” kiddy bike with a friction drive (I think it was a skateboard wheel fitted to the output shaft).
- thih9 2mo agoAlso: * you cannot install them on bikes with a rear rack. Here most city bikes have them.
- portly 2mo agoThat made me question who this is for. Looks like it's only for racing bikes that have taken off the rear mudguard. And those bikes are typically used to exercise.. Which makes me wonder about the cleaning after it rained..
- KeplerBoy 2mo agoNobody who rides a road bike would be seen dead with something like this. There are proper road ebikes for that.
- skeeter2020 2mo agoand no one who rides a legit road bike would be seen dead on a "road ebike".
- Lio 2mo agoWe get old boys in our cycling club that want to keep going out on the Saturday social ride. I don't have a problem with them riding an eRoad bikes, I like that they can keep coming out with us, but like you say I wouldn't want to ride one myself.
- jorgen123 2mo agoIt depends what you use them for. I use one as my commuter. Most days I ride it with the motor set to just overcoming the added weight of the system plus my heavy backpack. That is uphill, against the wind both ways, of course. I only use more engine power when I have a bad day or am just done pushing hard. But I am on my bike, not in a car. Life is good. On the flats, I get no benefit since the motor cuts off at my normal cruising speed of some 20 mph. It just feels like a solid bike in that mode, a bit heavy, of course. I have taken it on a few regular non-commute rides as a test and must say it did not make me lazy or weak, or suffer less. Easy of riding is not me. In the end, it is the rider that makes the ride.
- veunes 2mo agoWet-weather performance in particular seems like the thing I'd want to see independently tested
- BloondAndDoom 2mo agoDo they work with mountain bikes? As stupid as this sounds I like mountain biking but I don’t have stamina to climb up hills and then keep doing for a long time. I have an electric bike but designed for road
- reorder9695 2mo agoI'd be quite worried about breaking it in the not unlikely event of a crash, additionally it looks like it could quite significantly limit how low you could put your seat down on a mountain bike, so that would get in the way. Even if you got your seat down, it would add a significant amount of height above the tyre so you mighn't be able to move your arse far enough back to shift your weight property. It's also adding nearly 4kg weight relatively high up which probably isn't the end of the world but would be better if it wasn't so high up. It says on the website it will fit hardtails but not full sus, and that it isn't recommended on knobby tyres due to performance which isn't ideal either. I could be wrong on all of this but those are just the concerns coming to mind as another mountain biker.
- gabriel666smith 2mo agoWhen going downhill, any bumps which result in severe movement in the frame that bring the rear wheel closer to the saddle might be problematic, even without full suspension. Hard to say. I’m a road bike guy but I’ve definitely seen some forms of non-full suspension when working on mtbs which would result in that kind of movement. I think the tyres would limit the power output most. Probably quite annoying to have no rear mudguard in anything but the driest conditions. You’d be spraying a lot of crap up at the motor (and probably your back). Attaching and detaching it looks relatively simple, though - removing it for downhills doesn’t look arduous. You could probably 3d print a clip for the frame. Given the likely reduced power, and that the spec seems to be saying ‘500w peak, but 250w is sensible’ - probably up to the user’s needs whether the hassle is worth the extra watts per kilo. For those without mobility issues or longterm injuries, it’s usually best to optimise the rider rather than the bike for that. I feel like off-road climbing would necessitate really wide, sensitive speed variance that this motor is likely not great at supporting. It strikes me that you’d want more direct pedal feedback. Really fun bike design problem.
- leptons 2mo agoI made one in 1985 for my 10 speed bike, it was pretty fun for a while. I was in my early teens at the time.
- lonelyasacloud 2mo agoAbsolutely. A Skarper system [0] that drives through an adapted brake rotor sounds [1] like it is the way to go if really want [2] a well thought close to non-permanent conversion solution. [0] https://skarper.com/ https://skarper.com/ [1] https://road.cc/ebiketips/review_v2/skarper-ebike-drive-system https://road.cc/ebiketips/review_v2/skarper-ebike-drive-syst... . [2] Compared to other conversion options they are currently expensive https://road.cc/ebiketips/content/advice/buyers-guide/best-e-bike-conversion-kits-2025-motorise-the-bike-you-already-have-5927 https://road.cc/ebiketips/content/advice/buyers-guide/best-e...
- GuB-42 2mo agoAbout tire wear, I know a guy who did custom "Solex" type bike racing, with a small, friction drive petrol engine on the front wheel. It was so bad that the rear wheel ended up getting bigger at the end of the race, as it picked up rubber deposited by the front wheel! Keep it mind it was custom bikes though, the front tire just had to finish the race, they used a roller made of hard materials and knurled. I don't remember the reason, but it probably had to do with the fact their engines were quite a bit more powerful than traditional ones despite having the same displacement.
- tty456 2mo agoHad to look this up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmKoC57UWUI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmKoC57UWUI
- pravitgandhi03 2mo ago[flagged]