4 ms·

They need to get sued _hard_ and lose millions, as well as have cops put in jail before real change happens. I feel sorry for this kid but he's doing the right

by efnx 2mo ago

They need to get sued _hard_ and lose millions, as well as have cops put in jail before real change happens. I feel sorry for this kid but he's doing the right thing.

elevation 2mo ago
> cops put in jail Right. The real justice comes from treating this incident like you would if there were no municipal coffers at play, and simply punish criminals for criminal action.
- atmavatar 2mo ago
  Real justice when it comes to swatting is multi-faceted. Sure, the person making the bogus call to police should suffer some consequences vis a vis jail time. However, swatting only works because police regularly take a shoot first and ask questions later stance. They go from an anonymous tip about an ongoing crime at an address to shooting up said address in short order without any effort to verify a crime is actually taking place, perhaps in no small part due to the fact that qualified immunity ensures they'll never see any consequences for any property damage and/or casualties which occur as a result. I'd liken it to initiating a gang hit, except at least in the gang hit, the gang members responsible for carrying it out have a chance at facing some accountability. Cops need to face the possibility of (at minimum) termination and even jail time for recklessly endangering civilians, and cop training needs to be fundamentally changed to eliminate this "us vs. them" mentality seen in so many of those in blue.
  - user43928 2mo ago
    I am as horrified by the outcome here as the next person, but what exactly do you imagine police should do when responding to a call about an active shooter where they encounter a suspect armed with a handgun?
    - eth0up 2mo ago
      Identify themselves as LE, and of course physically represent as such, unambiguously, then demand the person put down the firearm. "Active Shooter" has no meaning just because the word is used. Also consider what everyone long forgot and few pay attention to; officers are paid, not volunteers. Risk is part of the job. You cannot shoot everything you think might be a threat. One can also question the quality of the system that handles emergency calls, or that responds to them. There are lots of guns in America. And lots of people who can say the words "active shooter". And often enough, phones and other objects are conveniently interpreted as guns, so I am not convinced that is the most important variable. Did he point it at the officers? If so, were the officers in proper uniform? Now, if I were to answer your question, I would say it first depends on circumstances. I have encountered many people with guns. But if I was and active officer and encountered someone with a gun, I would do my best so that the encounter was arranged in a manner that gave me some advantage and at least a second or two to think before acting. Sometimes, mistakes are made though, and they always will be made. But the fact someone had a gun is no excuse.
    - anigbrowl 2mo ago
      The very smart and obvious thing to do would be to announce themselves loudly on arrival; all squad cars have very loud speakers on them and most police departments have at least one armored vehicle specially for high risk situations. Breaking in through a bathroom window and then running around the house with guns drawn is a recipe for disaster. If this kid had had good pistol skills (not that unusual unusual in the US) it might just as easily have ended with one or both of the cops getting shot. Police in many jurisdictions will just walk onto your property in pursuit of a suspect and get mad at you if you open a window or door to see what the hell is going on outside your home.
    - autoexec 2mo ago
      They could start by verifying the address of the house they're raiding. Way too often this doesn't happen and the police murder someone because they got the wrong house. They should identify the occupants of the house. The victim in this case had been swatted before and he had already warned the police that could happen. The swat team should have been skeptical going into this situation and taken the time to verify what was going on first. The call they got in this case claimed to be from the victim who said his father had shot his sister and he was hiding in another room. Even if the 911 call had been legit, the police would have shot the person who called for help and not the father, because they didn't bother to identify who they were shooting or who else was around when they sprayed bullets around the room from outside. They should have identified themselves as police. There's no reason not to. They should have at least attempted to use their big boy words before they started shooting up the place.
- general1465 2mo ago
  Cops has to be trained. If they are trigger happy fools and shoots everything what moves, they should end up in jail. Notice that swatting is problem almost exclusively to USA. In Europe cops will just check what is going on first before bringing the big guns.
helterskelter 2mo ago
Taxpayers will just foot the bill. These cops need their personal funds taken, and before they blow it all on legal bills defending themselves from criminal charges. Come to think of it, this is America dammit. Cops should be licensed, bonded and insured, and if their training or records aren't up to standards they don't get covered. We have higher standards for plumbers and pest control than we do police.
- reactordev 2mo ago
  This. If truck drivers have to maintain safety records, if firefighters require certification and training, cops do too. To hell with this implied immunity bullshit, either they are correct in enforcing the law or they aren’t. If it's one cops fault, charge the cop. If it's multiple cops fault, charge them AND the department. This makes it fiscally prudent to make sure cops in the department are well trained and educated on enforcing the laws and respecting rights.
- pibaker 2mo ago
  I don't get the taxpayer line. It's a democracy. The taxpayers are the ones deciding what kind of policing we get. If they don't want to foot the bills for police misconduct, maybe the taxpayers should elect someone who actually holds the police accountable and doesn't just blindly approve any policing budget and look the other way when the police wrongfully harms someone?
HiPhish 2mo ago
> kid The man is 24 years old.
- kulahan 2mo ago
  Not done growing until 26. The law says you’re an adult at 18, but that’s not even a little true. 18 year olds are children.
  - ASalazarMX 2mo ago
    What are 12 year olds according to this criteria? Babies?
    - kulahan 2mo ago
      Also kids...?
  - danaris 2mo ago
    You're not done growing until you're dead. The studies that found that your brain develops until you're 25 didn't study anyone older than 25. More recent studies have found that your brain continues developing over your whole life. Different parts improve and decay at different rates at different times in your life. There is no one age where you're ontologically perfect; it's all spectra all the time.
wl 2mo ago
This guy needs to be compensated for his pain and suffering, his economic losses due to his disability, and for the care he'll need for the rest of his life. Jailing the people whose negligence is responsible for his injuries doesn't help him.
- free_bip 2mo ago
  By that logic we shouldn't lock up murderers either. After all, it won't help the person who's already dead.
  - wl 2mo ago
    There's quite a bit more negligence going on here than a typical murder—unless you've got some information that the cops were out to intentionally harm the victim. The public would probably be served by the shooters not carrying a badge anymore, but it doesn't take jail to accomplish that.
- hamper653 2mo ago
  Jail isn’t about helping victims.

by efnx 2mo ago

They need to get sued _hard_ and lose millions, as well as have cops put in jail before real change happens. I feel sorry for this kid but he's doing the right thing.

elevation 2mo ago

> cops put in jail Right. The real justice comes from treating this incident like you would if there were no municipal coffers at play, and simply punish criminals for criminal action.

atmavatar 2mo ago
Real justice when it comes to swatting is multi-faceted. Sure, the person making the bogus call to police should suffer some consequences vis a vis jail time. However, swatting only works because police regularly take a shoot first and ask questions later stance. They go from an anonymous tip about an ongoing crime at an address to shooting up said address in short order without any effort to verify a crime is actually taking place, perhaps in no small part due to the fact that qualified immunity ensures they'll never see any consequences for any property damage and/or casualties which occur as a result. I'd liken it to initiating a gang hit, except at least in the gang hit, the gang members responsible for carrying it out have a chance at facing some accountability. Cops need to face the possibility of (at minimum) termination and even jail time for recklessly endangering civilians, and cop training needs to be fundamentally changed to eliminate this "us vs. them" mentality seen in so many of those in blue.
- user43928 2mo ago
  I am as horrified by the outcome here as the next person, but what exactly do you imagine police should do when responding to a call about an active shooter where they encounter a suspect armed with a handgun?
  - eth0up 2mo ago
    Identify themselves as LE, and of course physically represent as such, unambiguously, then demand the person put down the firearm. "Active Shooter" has no meaning just because the word is used. Also consider what everyone long forgot and few pay attention to; officers are paid, not volunteers. Risk is part of the job. You cannot shoot everything you think might be a threat. One can also question the quality of the system that handles emergency calls, or that responds to them. There are lots of guns in America. And lots of people who can say the words "active shooter". And often enough, phones and other objects are conveniently interpreted as guns, so I am not convinced that is the most important variable. Did he point it at the officers? If so, were the officers in proper uniform? Now, if I were to answer your question, I would say it first depends on circumstances. I have encountered many people with guns. But if I was and active officer and encountered someone with a gun, I would do my best so that the encounter was arranged in a manner that gave me some advantage and at least a second or two to think before acting. Sometimes, mistakes are made though, and they always will be made. But the fact someone had a gun is no excuse.
  - anigbrowl 2mo ago
    The very smart and obvious thing to do would be to announce themselves loudly on arrival; all squad cars have very loud speakers on them and most police departments have at least one armored vehicle specially for high risk situations. Breaking in through a bathroom window and then running around the house with guns drawn is a recipe for disaster. If this kid had had good pistol skills (not that unusual unusual in the US) it might just as easily have ended with one or both of the cops getting shot. Police in many jurisdictions will just walk onto your property in pursuit of a suspect and get mad at you if you open a window or door to see what the hell is going on outside your home.
  - autoexec 2mo ago
    They could start by verifying the address of the house they're raiding. Way too often this doesn't happen and the police murder someone because they got the wrong house. They should identify the occupants of the house. The victim in this case had been swatted before and he had already warned the police that could happen. The swat team should have been skeptical going into this situation and taken the time to verify what was going on first. The call they got in this case claimed to be from the victim who said his father had shot his sister and he was hiding in another room. Even if the 911 call had been legit, the police would have shot the person who called for help and not the father, because they didn't bother to identify who they were shooting or who else was around when they sprayed bullets around the room from outside. They should have identified themselves as police. There's no reason not to. They should have at least attempted to use their big boy words before they started shooting up the place.
general1465 2mo ago
Cops has to be trained. If they are trigger happy fools and shoots everything what moves, they should end up in jail. Notice that swatting is problem almost exclusively to USA. In Europe cops will just check what is going on first before bringing the big guns.

helterskelter 2mo ago

Taxpayers will just foot the bill. These cops need their personal funds taken, and before they blow it all on legal bills defending themselves from criminal charges. Come to think of it, this is America dammit. Cops should be licensed, bonded and insured, and if their training or records aren't up to standards they don't get covered. We have higher standards for plumbers and pest control than we do police.

reactordev 2mo ago
This. If truck drivers have to maintain safety records, if firefighters require certification and training, cops do too. To hell with this implied immunity bullshit, either they are correct in enforcing the law or they aren’t. If it's one cops fault, charge the cop. If it's multiple cops fault, charge them AND the department. This makes it fiscally prudent to make sure cops in the department are well trained and educated on enforcing the laws and respecting rights.
pibaker 2mo ago
I don't get the taxpayer line. It's a democracy. The taxpayers are the ones deciding what kind of policing we get. If they don't want to foot the bills for police misconduct, maybe the taxpayers should elect someone who actually holds the police accountable and doesn't just blindly approve any policing budget and look the other way when the police wrongfully harms someone?

HiPhish 2mo ago

> kid The man is 24 years old.

kulahan 2mo ago
Not done growing until 26. The law says you’re an adult at 18, but that’s not even a little true. 18 year olds are children.
- ASalazarMX 2mo ago
  What are 12 year olds according to this criteria? Babies?
  - kulahan 2mo ago
    Also kids...?
- danaris 2mo ago
  You're not done growing until you're dead. The studies that found that your brain develops until you're 25 didn't study anyone older than 25. More recent studies have found that your brain continues developing over your whole life. Different parts improve and decay at different rates at different times in your life. There is no one age where you're ontologically perfect; it's all spectra all the time.

wl 2mo ago

This guy needs to be compensated for his pain and suffering, his economic losses due to his disability, and for the care he'll need for the rest of his life. Jailing the people whose negligence is responsible for his injuries doesn't help him.

free_bip 2mo ago
By that logic we shouldn't lock up murderers either. After all, it won't help the person who's already dead.
- wl 2mo ago
  There's quite a bit more negligence going on here than a typical murder—unless you've got some information that the cops were out to intentionally harm the victim. The public would probably be served by the shooters not carrying a badge anymore, but it doesn't take jail to accomplish that.
hamper653 2mo ago
Jail isn’t about helping victims.