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'We used acid to sabotage Microsoft hyperscale data centre construction'
- deleted 3mo ago[deleted]
- whateveracct 3mo agobased
- OsrsNeedsf2P 3mo agoI expect this article to top the HN page, since both people aghast and supportive of the sabotage will upvote
- Aunche 3mo agoWhat exactly are they trying to accomplish? I doubt they would just abandon the project. They would just redo the concrete which would emit even more emissions.
- mc32 3mo agoIt’s as productive as people who glue themselves to roadways. It irritates drivers/commuters (who are then more likely to have a negative view of the cause) and it slows traffic resulting in even more fuel usage. Yet, they think they are doing something good.
- afandian 3mo agoYet here we are talking about the environmental impact of Microsoft data centres in NL. We wouldn’t otherwise be.
- Manuel_D 3mo agoAre we talking about the environmental impact? Or are we talking about the vandalism perpetrated by activists? Attention on the protestors is not necessarily attention on the protestors' cause.
- skeaker 3mo ago> Are we talking about the environmental impact? Yes, obviously. Scroll up or down.
- Manuel_D 3mo agoI mostly see commenters quipping about how this will just mean the concert will have to be re poured, resulting in yet more emissions. The bulk of the comments are about the protestors, not the environmental impact of this data center.
- skeaker 3mo agoEmphasis on "mostly" meaning that you do see people talking about the impact. There you go.
- inigyou 3mo agoAnd talking about why climate protestors glue themselves to roadways!
- Sabinus 3mo agoIt's literally a building that turns electricity into reasonably intelligent text and we're still here talking about environmental impacts. Is this where we're at with NIMBYism in the West now? Will there ever be popular support to build industrial production any more?
- junaru 3mo agoYeah people will hear about this and subscribe to chatgpt pro in spite. You have to be special to think this is comparable to paint throwing on works of art or blocking public roads. Everyone outside tech hates AI.
- vitalyan8184 3mo ago[flagged]
- junaru 3mo agoIt just redirects me back to this site.
- skeaker 3mo agoVery unintentionally funny for you to say this here of all places.
- vitalyan8184 3mo agois it? from where I stand, hn seems to be one of the exceptionally few remaining places where the mods don't take sides so the obnoxious minority doesn't get to win arguments by silencing everyone else like they do everywhere else.
- inigyou 3mo agoMods don't take sides on issues you pay attention to, maybe. They definitely take sides. Watch: I'll say "free Palestine", and this comment will be deadened soon.
- skeaker 3mo agoThis site literally has a user powered ranking system so dissenting opinions get downvoted. It is an echo chamber.
- 100percentjake 3mo agoThe people around me who seem the most enthusiastic about AI are specifically the non techies using it to make slop images, event flyers, stylized selfies, and asking it if drinking glue is bad for their health.
- skeaker 3mo agoI suppose if you're one of the people that live near where it would be built it might be worth sabotaging it if only to go another week without the incessant hum and brown, filthy tap water.
- mc32 3mo agoIt’s port area. Are you certain the protestors/saboteurs were locals?
- skeaker 3mo agoA port area that uses the same water infrastructure that runs to residential areas, yes. The saboteurs are not named but I would wager that the Dutch group talked about in the article recruited from the area, yes.
- sverhagen 3mo agoRoadway gluing is designed to sway public opinion -> change politics -> affect the corporations. This is designed to... affect the corporations. (Swaying public opinion could be seen as a secondary effect.) I also realize it's not that simple. They probably didn't affect Microsoft here, rather a construction company, who are now calling their insurance company? Or the construction company is eating the cost for the damage, because it's deemed that the site wasn't adequately secured?
- smallpipe 3mo agodelay the project, bring attention to the problem, feel better about themselves by doing “something”. “That achieves nothing” sounds like what a Microsoft PR person would want you to think.
- lp0_on_fire 3mo ago> feel better about themselves by doing “something”. "The real friends are the clicks and attention you receive along the way."
- inigyou 3mo agograbbing attention is literally the point of a protest so yes
- wk_end 3mo agoIn the interest of playing Devil's Advocate, even if they're unlikely to abandon an existing project over this, accounting for potential sabotage and the cost/delays of redoing work might change the calculus of future projects?
- deleted 3mo ago[deleted]
- exabrial 3mo agoRight, all they're going to do is rip the concrete out and repour it, causing even more damage to the environment (concrete production and curing is unbelievably C02 intensive) I don't disagree we shouldn't be expanding power consumption unless we've moved the vast majority (>90%) of the load off fossil fuels, but this certainly didn't help anything.
- catigula 3mo agoThe extinction threat from AI to all organic species is a little more comprehensive than a little bit of extra concrete, per the people making the AI themselves (I disavow this etc. etc).
- NoGravitas 3mo agoTrueAnon Rule #23, "Always Disavow"
- abirch 3mo agoIt's similar to the people who block roadways to protest climate change. Usually it makes the commuters frustrated and doesn't change anything. Personally I think data centers should pay a 100% fossil fuel tax. Markets respond to incentives.
- plufz 3mo agoI think XR would prefer your solution as well. Still I can understand young people’s frustration when we after years and years of knowing about climate change do so little and so few laws of this type are enacted. But I agree that their strategy is lacking. It would probably be easier to get people in general to support it if it didn’t affect them directly, sadly.
- abirch 3mo agoI understand why people are frustrated with the current system in general. You wouldn't design it this way. We need more young politicians shaping the laws and more entrepreneurs improving society.
- Legend2440 3mo ago[flagged]
- jddj 3mo agoTo be clear, you mean shot?
- Zsfe510asG 3mo agoMany of the mentally ill AI people on X supported the ICE executions in Minneapolis.
- afandian 3mo agoLuddites were campaigning against child labour and dangerous working conditions, amongst other things. Pick which side of history you want to be on!
- tavavex 3mo ago> child labour and dangerous working conditions I don't think these ideas are as toxic to the current political climate as you think they are. We're probably just a few short years away from the current generation of right-wing populists integrating ideas like "children are useless eaters that are your property to command, make them give back from all that you gave to them" and "work safety and environmental regulations are an emasculating evil, real men want to breathe poison and take risks" right into the core of their platforms.
- Zsfe510asG 3mo agoLooms at least produced something useful as opposed to hot air and SEO slop.
- tadfisher 3mo agoMaybe the loom smashers should have won. I'm not sure we ended up on the better timeline.
- 3mo ago
- beanjuiceII 3mo agobring back asylums
- deleted 3mo ago[deleted]
- nick__m 3mo agoRuining concrete seems to go against extinction rebellion main goal. According to the World Economic Forum the co2 released during ciment production account for 8% of global co2 emissions, datancenter are estimated to contribute between 1 and 2 percent.... Math is not theirs forte!
- afandian 3mo agoI imagine their maths is fine. Their objective is to tackle climate change through raising awareness. That happens at the macro scale.
- holbrad 3mo agoAh yes, the majority of people obviously don't know about climate change! It's far grimmer to realise that people know, they just don't think we have an acceptable answer yet. I'm not willing to accept any climate action, if it means I can't go on holiday abroad or it makes my life meaningfully more expensive etc. It's selfish, but we need to solve it in a way that makes people globally richer. (This is one of the great things about renewables coming down in price)
- readthenotes1 3mo agoYou think they did math on this? No, all he did was have a tantrum where they got attention to themselves and patted themselves on the bat for doing something. They didn't think through the ecological results of someone scraping off the destroyed concrete and pouring more.
- inigyou 3mo agoThe ecological results of the protest are negligible, so I don't know why people keep bringing it up
- inigyou 3mo agoWell they didn't ruin a batch of cement at a cement plant did they? They ruined a datacenter construction project, specifically.
- Zsfe510asG 3mo agoThat is a good excuse for Microslop to address the overcapacity and stop building more data centers. KOSPI is down again.
- cliglot 3mo ago> Personally I think data centers should pay a 100% fossil fuel tax. Markets respond to incentives. Yes, by changing the incentives to align with their desires. I guarantee if a politician had a serious chance of introducing something like this that record breaking amounts of money would be poured into even a primary election these days to stop them.
- luxuryballs 3mo agoThat's a pretty solid name, despite not agreeing with their methods here.
- j45 3mo agoIs hyperscale a branding term?
- cannonpr 3mo agoThey threw balloons… over a fence, while they like drama, this is unlikely to have had any effect on a cured structural slab. I doubt they even managed to get industrial strength peroxide.
- bpodgursky 3mo agoAn obvious point, but if Europe wants sovereign onshore AI, they have to get these people under control. It's easy for Microsoft to simply build EU-serving datacenters elsewhere.
- inigyou 3mo agoWho is Europe? I'm sure Ursula vdL wants onshore AI since she can tax it.
- holbrad 3mo agoIf you believe AI will become increasing important, which most people in tech seem to agree on. Having data centers in your country seems incredibly important, especially to the EU. You'd really hope to see the exact opposite of this behaviour.
- appreciatorBus 3mo ago> amid growing worker opposition lol this is not "worker opposition", these are the antics of over educated downwardly mobile elites.
- __MatrixMan__ 3mo agoCompanies at this scale only speak existential threat. If you can't pose one, they don't even know you exist. I question whether this made enough of a dent to be noticed, but it's a start.
- appreciatorBus 3mo agoCompanies at every scale speak marginal gains/losses. Microsoft looks at this the same way your local drugstore considers shoplifting. They will look at property damage in the context of potential revenue & margin, possibly accounting for cost of mitigations. If it continues to make sense, they will continue. If it doesn't they will consider raising prices until it does make sense, or relocating to jurisdictions with fewer elites play acting as activist proletariat. Since your local drugstore won't be local if it leaves, it's only options are to close down or raise prices or lock everything up.
- inigyou 3mo agoMicrosoft does tonnes of dumb stuff that decreases its profit. Renaming Microsoft Office to Microsoft 365 Copilot, for example. As long as it has plenty of profit left, it doesn't really care. It would only care if the amount of lost profit became existential, reaffirming GP.
- __MatrixMan__ 3mo agoThat's a problem if your goal is to get them to lower prices, but it's a win if you're trying to get them to go away.
- namuol 3mo agoI suspect many HN commenters would be surprised to learn just how much the general public are on the side of these activists, condoning if not outright applauding their actions.
- skeaker 3mo agoYep. Even in very red areas like Texas, isn't the public opinion something like 95% opposed? City councils keep allowing it despite this, clearly due to bribes. Whole situation sucks.
- holbrad 3mo agoI mean bribes can be good. Sure you can build a data center near me, if your going to fund a new swimming pool and library with the taxes you pay. Also I get reduced local taxes? Even better! Infrastructure building would be a whole lot easier, if people could directly tie it to tangible benefits.
- water-data-dude 3mo agoIt would be great if it worked that way, with the people living nearby getting concrete benefits from the new data center. Instead, they typically just see an increase in their utility bills.
- skeaker 3mo agoIf you think bribes are at all going to the constituents, you don't understand what a bribe is. This is a very different thing from them paying taxes back into the city.
- inigyou 3mo agoYou can even heat the swimming pool with the waste heat.
- holbrad 3mo ago[flagged]
- mitthrowaway2 3mo agoIf they really wanted to have an impact on data center construction, they'd sneakily spill some silicone oil in semiconductor fab cleanrooms.
- IAmBroom 3mo agoYes, or get computer science degrees, get hired to design those chips, and then insert a backdoor! /s Level of effort is a thing. EDIT: And Cryo32 said the same thing elsewhere, a few minutes ago!
- cliglot 3mo ago[flagged]
- thyristan 3mo ago> There’s an acute water shortage in The Netherlands right now. When I open BlueSky, everyone is talking about water being increasingly wasted on cooling data centres. And for what? To generate more AI shit. Ah, the water-use BS again. In Europe, other than in the US, water use for data centers is strictly regulated. You cannot just do open-loop cooling and use a tap-water -> chiller -> sewer line. Things have to be closed-loop so there is no water consumption beyond the initial filling. The only thing you could get away with is to mist your outdoor units on the one or two hottest days per year. But even that is getting more and more restricted.
- jandeboevrie 3mo agoSource?
- deleted 3mo ago[deleted]
- skeaker 3mo agoOn paper you can't do this, but in practice the fines for doing so (if they ever even reach your mailbox after you've bribed the local politicians, which you've done to get your center built in the first place) are just a cost of business. There are plenty of videos of people who live near data centers who now have sputtering water from their sinks, or water that comes out brown and unusable.
- cr125rider 3mo agoIt’s regulated in the US too. You need well and consumption permits before using tons of water. Water usage is approved
- yencabulator 3mo agoJust like xAI was regulated to not run more than 15 gas turbines? US lets companies get away with breaking things and punishes wrongdoing at most with a fine that's less than the money that was made by breaking the rules, so US regulations sort of don't matter. https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2026/jan/15/elon-musk-xai-datacenter-memphis https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2026/jan/15/elon-musk... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossus_(data_center) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossus_(data_center)
- cryo32 3mo agoI hate all this weird activist stuff. It's pointless. Someone just pays for it and the problem is fixed. If you want to sabotage their hyperscale data centre construction, you probably should do it from the inside. Get the skills, get a job, get to the top and do a fucking terrible job of it like MSFT's C-suite.
- inigyou 3mo agoIf they keep doing it will they keep paying for it?
- deleted 3mo ago[deleted]
- hackable_sand 3mo agoLove this
- bix6 3mo ago> In recent years, people from Extinction Rebellion Netherlands have focused heavily on large scale disruptive action of ‘business as usual’. Everyone talking about how stupid and ineffective this is. The whole point is to interrupt business as usual to draw attention to the stupidity of our continued head in the sand path. The damage (or lack thereof) is largely irrelevant. The fact a regular person is risking jail to try and stop business as usual is the entire point. It starts with one person.
- readthenotes1 3mo agoCluster B society tantrums
- bix6 3mo agoDemeaning people who are trying to improve the world is pathetic.
- techbrovanguard 3mo agoI concur.
- readthenotes1 3mo agoThat's just it, I do not believe they are trying to improve the world. I believe they are just acting out, and doing so and yet another non-constructive way.
- cliglot 3mo ago> We're probably just a few short years away from the current generation of right-wing populists Right wing populists are nearly as useless as left wing populists now. The people they put into power and now betraying them for monied interests and they’re powerless to stop them. Fools thought they were the harbinger but in reality they were just the vessel. It’s why major populist characters like MTG and Massie are giving up and getting slaughtered by puppets in a suits in primaries. It’s why Trump has been friendlier to the neocons that spent years insulting him than populists that helped propel him to power. The real ghouls on the right that need to be stopped are the neo-reactionaries. I knew we were headed for strange times when the Silicon Valley elites simultaneously opened their pockets for the second term. It was purely a power play and it’s seemingly been effective. I suspect the populists, right and left will care no more for the world they envision than they would for the status-quo even.
- inigyou 3mo agoLeft-wing populists haven't got anyone elected, but right-wing populists got to be the most powerful person in the world, so that doesn't seem that useless.
- tavavex 3mo agoThe point people bring up about concrete CO2 use is absurd. To me it screams of refusing to talk about the debate the protestors are having and instead trying to find any minor nit to pick, which then lets you declare that they're imperfect and therefore not even worth discussing. In the grand scheme of things, the concrete use here is completely unnoticeable. They're not causing extreme ecological damage here. This is a protest that does something about the problem they're complaining about, slows down their enemies and brings a lot of publicity to their act of protest. Without making a value judgement, this is much better than what a lot of other protests achieve in terms of direct effectiveness. Frankly, the CO2 retort can be reused for almost any protest that destroys or defaces something, because the work to undo or replace that probably creates emissions.
- im3w1l 3mo agoMy tinfoil hat says this isn't "spontaneous grassroots activism". Someone made this happen that benefits from this. Maybe a country that wants to mess with the Netherlands. Hell, it could even be a competing tech company. I hope they look very carefully how this was organized, where the money came from.
- Zenul_Abidin 3mo agoWere they arrested? This definitely sounds illegal.
- cliglot 3mo ago[flagged]
- baal80spam 3mo agoThey should be jailed.
- keeda 3mo agoThe environmental impact discussion is always incomplete because it only looks at AI in isolation. LLMs do exactly nothing by themselves, they are always used to facilitate some human endeavor, so we need to take a holistic view of the system. I had previously done some napkin math (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46984659 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46984659) which found LLMs + humans are way more efficient than humans alone, but that analysis is by definition simplistic, and as some point out, does not account for outliers like coding. Fortunately, I just came across this source: https://gist.github.com/mdodkins/9b49624855cc41570c9d1012e0d5d157 https://gist.github.com/mdodkins/9b49624855cc41570c9d1012e0d... That looks accurate and lines up with my previous numbers. A heavy day of Claude Code usage is equivalent to running 0.7 of a dishwasher cycle. Already that sounds pretty decent, but let's put that into context and refine the simplistic analysis a bit. Discussing footprints in terms of [electricity / water / CO2] tuples, that is approximately: 1.3 kWH / 2.6L / 540g Compare that to a human's daily footprint (US averages, scaled down to an 8-hour workday; the numbers are actually higher if you look only at office use): 10 kWH / 102L / 4KG As a % of the human footprint, that is ~ 13% / 2% / 13%. Right off the bat water usage is negligible. But at a minimum if LLM usage saves a human 13% time at a task, we're at breakeven i.e. the LLM resource consumption is compensated by the savings in human consumption. Anything more than 13% and we actually start conserving resources on average! Now I know the productivity impact of LLMs is a contentious topic, but my past comments include studies (from 2024, in the era of spicy autocomplete, long before coding agents!) showing ~30% boost in throughput and/or time savings. Interestingly the survey-based https://www.genaiadoptiontracker.com/ https://www.genaiadoptiontracker.com/ finds a consistent 30% time savings across industries. A human completing a task 30% faster consumes ~30% less resources i.e. we save ~3.3 kWH / 34L / 1.3KG per day. This gives us a net savings of 2 kWH / 31L / 760g per human per day! Even with 2024 estimates of productivity numbers we are conserving resources! I would wager that a full day's use of Claude Code today offers a much, much higher boost. You could say coding is a small part of software engineering, but then resource consumption scales down correspondingly. The upshot remains that for a given task overall resource consumption goes down with increased LLM usage! In fact, if LLMs were adopted across all knowledge workers to do all possible tasks, we could recoup the enormous environmental cost of training models in a few business days! Subsequent ongoing savings can more than compensate for a lot of the slop produced elsewhere. So -- and tongue only partly in cheek -- if you really want to make an environmental impact, use LLMs more.
- duxup 3mo agoWe’ve been building data centers for many decades, but now it’s a big issue. I’ve seen neighbors (well presumably based on their posts) up in arms over old tiny data centers they never knew were there. There is a surreal component to all this.