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DEA to Temporarily Schedule 7-Oh and Related Substances to Protect Public Safety
- reactordev 3mo agoGood. That kratom crap can go.
- mroche 3mo agoI know very little of this but it seems like not all things kratom are affected. > This temporary scheduling action does not apply to botanical kratom products that contain naturally occurring 7-OH below the specified threshold. Instead, it targets synthesized products and those containing elevated concentrations of 7-OH as outlined in the temporary scheduling order. DEA believes these substances pose an imminent threat to public safety given their effects are highly unpredictable.
- Sayrus 3mo agoAccording to the ROI (https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2026/07/06/2026-13608/temporary-placement-of-7-hydroxymitragynine-above-a-specified-threshold-in-schedule-i-request-for https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2026/07/06/2026-13...), the threshold isn't yet fixed but the suggested value would be 1 milligram or 5% of the dry-mass. Doses sold are in grams so this would ban kratom.
- wbl 3mo agoParagraph A,not paragraph B applies to actual kratom leaf.
- Sayrus 3mo ago> Any botanical material of the plant Mitragyna speciosa, also known as kratom, and contains more than 0.050 percentage of 7-hydroxymitragynine on a dry weight basis Indeed, thanks for catching that. No maximum for an actual kratom leaf but leafs cannot be too potent, right?
- NDlurker 3mo agoKratom is great. I used to make a kratom chai tea, felt similar to hydrocodone
- zardo 3mo agoCrack is great, it gets you really high.
- thinkingtoilet 3mo agoThis is the proper response. I'm sure heroin feels really really really good. The amount of addicts in this thread defending their addiction is surprising. PS: Is that a Mr. Show reference?
- NDlurker 3mo agoEverything in moderation. I know a few successful adults who have tried crack. Personally, I'd never want to try it but people can do what they want. I've been around people high on powder cocaine a few times and they were incredibly annoying.
- ifwinterco 3mo agoYep, go to the same place as cocaine and fentanyl which luckily nobody ever uses right?
- BigTTYGothGF 3mo agoI think we're all better off with cocaine and fentanyl not available at local convenience stores.
- Krutonium 3mo agoGood, Kratom (as sold in products like Feel Free) is fucking awful. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLObpcBR2yw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLObpcBR2yw
- Forgeties79 3mo agoIt’s wild that this stuff has remained unregulated for so long. Usually that can be attributed to the demographics (perceived or real) of the users though.
- phil21 3mo agoFeel Free (and similar) extracts like this are especially onerous. It's no longer Kratom powder that takes a lot of effort to get into trouble with. These extracts are not very well studied, and may be stronger than many Schedule II opioids. Especially for certain brain chemistries. In no world should Feel Free execs not be in prison at this point. They know precisely what they are doing, and their marketing is especially nasty since they market it towards addicts as a safe alchohol alternative. Kratom powders of 15 years ago can be defended in many ways. These extracts have absolutely no leg to stand on. They are an end-around opioid scheduling.
- IAmGraydon 3mo agoLook again. Feel Free does not contain Kratom extracts. It contains leaf.
- phil21 3mo agoI am quite familiar with it. It’s supposedly fermented leaf. Either way the impact is similar, and nothing like the natural leaf in effect or potency. Fermentation is its own form of chemical alteration. It’s certainly not ground up leaf put into a water bottle as implied.
- IAmGraydon 3mo agoMost leaf you buy from leaf vendors is fermented to some degree in the country of origin. My point stands - Feel Free does not contain extracts. The difference you may notice is more likely from the addition of Kava root, which is a gabaergic.
- mwigdahl 3mo ago[flagged]
- Avicebron 3mo ago[flagged]
- Krutonium 3mo agoIt's a not-opioid that just plays with the opiate receptors in your brain and can be purchased in a concentrated form at your nearest gas station in a lot of US States.
- ok123456 3mo ago7-OH is the name for derivatives of kratom that contain the active ingredients. It has opioid-like addiction tendencies. Lots of people who used kratom to wean themselves off opioids are now addicted to 7-OH. This includes many people over the age of 30.
- kami23 3mo agoKratom has been around for a while, I remember seeing it in headshops at least a decade ago.
- NDlurker 3mo agoI used to order it online in like 2005. Crude extracts were available maybe since 2007. The plant almost got banned several years ago. Then over the last few years all these extracts and derivatives have been coming out. MGM-15 is stronger than heroin from what I've heard. Strongest stuff I ever tried was a mitragynine gummy and it felt like hydrocodone. That one gummy had the effects of what I used to get from a couple cups of tea. Good stuff but not risking addiction to try it again. Made me nauseous too
- mjthrowaway1 3mo agoThis is different. There’s the plant. Contains about 1.5% mitragynine. Then there were purified extracts of the active alkaloids in the plant. Started around 30% mitragynine years ago now in the 85% range. Then there were synthetic derivatives of mitragynine (7oh, mgm-15, etc.). These are much more fun/addictive and surprisingly safe. Almost all “overdoses” involved a mix of alcohol or other drugs. Much safer than fentanyl or traditional opioids because it doesn’t meaningfully trigger respiratory depression leading to asphyxiation. Unfortunately, they’re also addictive. The harm level, imho, was somewhere around alcohol or nicotine.
- NDlurker 3mo ago"temporarily" Downvoters must not know that when the DEA says they're temporarily banning something they mean permanently
- aftbit 3mo agoaka "gas station heroin"
- Hikikomori 3mo agoGas stations have the best drugs
- tclancy 3mo agoWhereas the sushi is hit or miss.
- mghackerlady 3mo agoYou've never been to Japan then, have you?
- grapefruitsoda 3mo agoYou’ve never had crab log marketed as a spicy tuna roll have you
- tclancy 3mo agoI tried but the map I bought in the gas station was pretty hazy on how to get there. And the second attempt went even worse!
- deleted 3mo ago[deleted]
- fierycatnet 3mo agoKratom has been beneficial for me. Extracts can go but the leaf should stay.
- IAmGraydon 3mo agoMy opinion is that long term daily kratom use is terrible for your health, but it doesn't carry an overdose risk so it should stay legal and the decision to use or not should be up to the user.
- MiltarizdMerica 3mo agoYou have a source on this?
- BizarroLand 3mo agoDo people normally have sources on their opinions? I mean, they did specifically say it was their opinion.
- MiltarizdMerica 3mo agoI don't believe that comment qualified it as an opinion when I responded to it
- IAmGraydon 3mo agoI get it - you're a kratom addict looking for validation. My post started with "My opinion is", and it was not edited or changed at any time. Kratom does have a severe negative effect on memory, BTW.
- fierycatnet 3mo agoI'm not the other guy but slow down there sparky. You can OD on water too. There are addicts and then there are people that use it responsibly for pain, sleep, anxiety, etc. 7-oh is absolutely harmful. Regular leaf is safe.
- xvxvx 3mo agoSee, where you went wrong was… you started taking something called ‘Kratom’… from a local gas station.
- Centigonal 3mo agoActually reasonable decision from the DEA under RFK. Scheduling concentrated/semi-synthetic kratom products while leaving the weaker leaf-based products alone is a good compromise to reduce harm without criminalizing kratom (which has beneficial uses for opioid recovery and maintenance therapy) in general.
- thinkingtoilet 3mo agoIf it actually has beneficial uses let a doctor prescribe it. Kratom is extremely addictive and should be illegal yesterday.
- chlorion 3mo agoThe doctors will prescribe methadone or suboxone instead most likely, both of which are *massively* more powerful and addictive than kratom.
- nozzlegear 3mo agoPrescribing opioids in the US is heavily monitored and scrutinized now. Doctors (and NPs, of which my mother is one) have to document the justification, meet state law restrictions, verify the prescription drug monitoring checks with their state, and complete the EHR workflows[†] before they can send in the prescription. There are more checks after that too that the pharmacist has to complete, and the insurance company will have oversight checks they'll do as well. Not saying people can't or won't get addicted to the drugs prescribed by doctors, but there's a lot more checks and oversight to it (these days) than there is for kratom right now. [†] At least in my mother's case, their EHR system will also flag opioid prescriptions for review by a board.
- djriley 3mo agoSuboxone is regulated quite a bit differently than full agonist opioids despite being a massively powerful drug. One can get a prescription online via Telemedicine for $100 and a 3 minute visit in almost all 50 states. This was started around covid to help mitigate the opiod crisis and lower barriers to access. Suboxone is CIII instead of CII like many opioids and used to have special prescribing requirements requiring a class, patient limits, etc but those have been lifted. It may be a lifesaving/life-changing drug for many but it is also potent enough for a single dose to put a non-tolerant user in the dirt and is abusable for non-tolerant users just as any other opiod. It has been popular as a street drug in Europe for example for decades. Checking on Quick.md, a Telemedicine service that prescribed Suboxone it is indicated for folks who are addicted to fentanyl, heroin, opiod pharmaceuticals and kratom/7OH. If you are not opiod tolerant you can put yourself in a coma today for $100 + pharmacy fees. No need to prove dependancy with a positive drug test, no therapy, nothing.
- kccqzy 3mo agoLast year, the FDA had already said that if kratom is added to food, it is considered adulteration of food. It also cannot be a dietary supplement. https://www.fda.gov/news-events/public-health-focus/fda-and-kratom https://www.fda.gov/news-events/public-health-focus/fda-and-... I’m not fully cognizant of the interaction between FDA and DEA, but I would’ve thought that following FDA’s announcement last year, kratom had already been outlawed.
- Legend2440 3mo ago> I would’ve thought that following FDA’s announcement last year, kratom had already been outlawed. The FDA can say you can't sell it as a supplement or food. But they can't stop you from possessing it or selling it as a chemical. When the DEA schedules it, it is illegal to possess or sell in any capacity.
- dataflow 3mo agoInteresting that the drug enforcement administration can make it illegal to buy something as a chemical. Their name would suggest that they're merely the enforcement arm of the FDA regarding drugs.
- Legend2440 3mo agoThe FDA and the DEA have no connection to each other. The DEA is a law enforcement agency that aims to fight illegal drug trafficking. the FDA is regulatory agency that aims to ensure the food and medicine legally sold in the US is safe.
- mothballed 3mo agoThe DEA enforces FDA regulations though through criminal and civil prosecution of those using otherwise DEA-legal and properly prescribed substances that are not FDA approved. Except for medical marijuana which had specific executive order to place state-licensed cannabis exempted from FDA regulation, a legally prescribed controlled substance becomes a DEA enforceable illegal substance when it is dispensed without FDA approval of the material.
- ck2 3mo agoJohn Oliver has a good segment about this * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRZqHzDG_c8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRZqHzDG_c8
- v8xi 3mo agoTheres a guy Grant Harding on YT etc. who sends gas station pills for testing and some of the things he finds are scary. Seriously addictive drugs being sold OTC with no meaningful consumer warning or guardrails
- sigmoid10 3mo ago>Seriously addictive drugs being sold OTC Nicotine is one of the most addictive substances in existence and it is sold everywhere. If governments actually cared about addiction risk, a whole lot of things would have to disappear from normal stores.
- Forgeties79 3mo agoNicotine is far more regulated and generally won’t lead you to pass out behind the wheel of a car or drown in a hot tub. You can’t even smoke in the vicinity of many buildings, but kratom? It’s basically an unregulated opiod that anyone over 18 can get and use wherever, whenever, with little to no control over what’s actually in it because it’s not food, medicine, etc.
- sigmoid10 3mo agoSo are most OTC drugs. Doesn't change the fact that you can get them everywhere. And long term nicotine use causes dependence similar to heroin.
- Forgeties79 3mo agoIt doesn’t even compare man. I am pro legalization of drugs but it doesn’t mean they should be as unregulated as kratom currently is
- pstuart 3mo agoDrug regulation should be very simple: 1. Purity, strength, and disclosure of ingredients. 2. Responsible advertising/promotion/distribution. I'm pro kratom but I find it abhorrent the way it's marketed and sold without any warnings or acknowledgements of addiction.
- josefritzishere 3mo ago[flagged]
- ttul 3mo agoIt's kind of amazing that this took so long. On the other hand, this is just chapter 3025223 of the failed war on drugs and we can be confident that people will find something worse as an alternative.
- MSFT_Edging 3mo agoKratom is such an interesting drug. About 10 years ago, when it was less well-known, you could find better raw leaf powder and it was helping people get off actual opiates. IIRC there's an effect where the actual chemicals get stronger for older leaves. The bigger market has caused the harvest period to shorten, making the powder worse quality, and creating room for the concentrated extracts and stuff like 7-Oh. Tragedy of the commons I guess. I knew people who started taking way too much, but also people who were able to use it responsibly. People say "let doctors prescribe", but that ignores how in order for that to happen, a pharma company will need something they can patent, pay for the years of testing, get sole control over it for a period, and years later a generic can come about. All when you can dry a leaf and use it as-is. There should be room for plants to be consumed. Screw it, enjoy poppy, cannabis, kratom, tobacco, etc. It probably shouldn't be sold in gas stations but it probably also shouldn't be outright banned, as we'll just get new, more dangerous analogues.
- parineum 3mo ago> People say "let doctors prescribe", but that ignores how in order for that to happen, a pharma company will need something they can patent, pay for the years of testing, get sole control over it for a period, and years later a generic can come about. Is there not universies that could just do this research on the leaf itself?
- Avicebron 3mo agoWithout an official blessing from a pharma company the insurance won't pay for it and doctors are unlikely to prescribe it.
- lotsofpulp 3mo agoOfficial blessings come from government officials (such as those working at the offices of the Food and Drug Administration), not pharma companies. Pharma companies have to apply for official blessings, just the same as universities would have to. However, taxpayers do not want to spend money on expensive trials to prove efficacy.
- hoistbypetard 3mo agoAnyone got a quick primer on what 7-Oh is? That's a new term for me and the web search doesn't seem reliable.
- ChrisArchitect 3mo agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7-Hydroxymitragynine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7-Hydroxymitragynine
- simulator5g 3mo agoSynthetic opioids sold at gas stations.
- switchbak 3mo agoHere in Canada you're not allowed to 3d print a modded grip for the rifle you're not allowed to buy, but in the USA you can get OPIOIDS at a GAS STATION! ... things are definitely different down there.
- mothballed 3mo agoBut the prison sentence once caught is much shorter in Canada.
- switchbak 3mo agoThe prison sentence for being caught doing legal things is surprisingly short.
- mghackerlady 3mo agoTo be fair, it is a relatively weak one that people claim has medicinal benefits
- IAmGraydon 3mo agoKratom is a leaf that is primarily farmed in Asia which contains the active ingredient Mitragynine, which has some very mild partial-agonist opioid effects. When kratom is consumed, your liver converts a very small amount to a MUCH more potent molecule called 7-hydroxymitragynine. As with all natural drugs, some asshats in a lab decided to figure out how to create the latter molecule semi-synthetically and in bulk. They pressed them into pills and sell them in head shops and some gas stations. It's pretty addictive, nasty stuff.
- IAmGraydon 3mo agoI don't usually agree with prohibition, but 7OH is the kind of drug that spirals into a self destructive addiction VERY quickly. Most opioids require using for a number of weeks before you start to develop enough physical dependence to bring about withdrawal. 7OH has this weird withdrawal-like crash after even a single use that makes the user immediately feel terrible and often they seek more to make it go away. It's like the crack of the opioid world. On top of that, tolerance builds extremely quickly. Glad to see it go.
- DrBrock 3mo agoAh yeah surely banning more substances will be the end of the problem this time! It definitely won't just push anyone who got hooked on this non-lethal opioid towards unregulated black markets filled with lethal fentanyl... Fun fact, this is one of two """temporary""" opioid schedulings happening right now. The DEA is also banning 5,6-Dichloro Desmethylchlorphine (SR-17018), which has minimal to no recreational value and is the current most promising breakthrough therapy for opioid withdrawals. It is hard for me to read the combination of these two bans as anything but active malice. https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2026/07/01/2026-13364/schedules-of-controlled-substances-temporary-placement-of-56--dichloro-brorphine-56-dichloro https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2026/07/01/2026-13...
- parineum 3mo ago> It is hard for me to read the combination of these two bans as anything but active malice. Reading the document... > In recent years, online forum users have begun to discuss recreational use of these four synthetic opioids and commonly compared these four synthetic opioids to other traditionally abused opioids, such as morphine and fentanyl (schedule II substances). However, unlike these two drugs that have FDA-approval for use in specific medical treatments, the four synthetic opioids have no currently approved medical use and, based on positive identifications of these four substances in forensic drug exhibits and toxicology samples, are likely to be trafficked and abused similarly to other synthetic opioids, such as brorphine (schedule I).
- DrBrock 3mo agoDo you trust the DEA, especially under this administration, to be a reliable narrator? I would strongly recommend doing your own research, because I cannot even begin to tell you how many distinct accounts I have read of people _finally_ getting through opioid withdrawals using SR-17018 for decidedly non-recreational purposes https://www.reddit.com/r/recoverywithoutAA/comments/1t5yzoe/sr17018_is_an_absolute_lifesaver/ https://www.reddit.com/r/recoverywithoutAA/comments/1t5yzoe/... https://www.reddit.com/r/recoverywithoutAA/comments/1t5yzoe/sr17018_is_an_absolute_lifesaver/omjveph/ https://www.reddit.com/r/recoverywithoutAA/comments/1t5yzoe/... https://www.reddit.com/r/SR17018/comments/1unksbn/my_experience_with_sr/ https://www.reddit.com/r/SR17018/comments/1unksbn/my_experie... https://www.reddit.com/r/withdrawl/comments/1rk2ohi/sr17018_withdrawalfree_opiate_detox_dosing/ https://www.reddit.com/r/withdrawl/comments/1rk2ohi/sr17018_... ...
- overgard 3mo agoOne of the big dangers I've heard of with 7-Oh is it seems like treatment centers don't really know how to treat withdrawal from it, which I've heard is extremely rough.
- dev_hugepages 3mo agoYou can't treat it with opioid agonist therapy (buprenorphine, methadone, ...) to suppress the withdrawals like you would with most other cases of opioid dependency?
- overgard 3mo agoThat's my understanding. I knew a guy that went through that, and basically they tried to treat it with opiate protocols and it didn't really work, and you have these overworked nurses that unfortunately just don't really know what to do there. Usually opiate withdrawal isn't as dangerous as like benzodiazepine withdrawal or alcohol withdrawal (which can kill you), so I don't think it's likely to kill most people, but it seems like a pretty awful experience I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.
- dev_hugepages 3mo agoWe're going to need more than a "I knew a guy" here
- pstuart 3mo agoFuck the DEA -- they need to be abolished today. Then, fuck all the kratom vendors that absolutely irresponsibly market their products. I've used kratom for 10 years for pain management and it was my best option at the time. Drugs should not be illegal -- they should be regulated, for purity and for truth in advertising (in the case of kratom making it crystal clear that addiction is inevitable with regular constant use.
- cliglot 3mo ago> I've used kratom for 10 years for pain management and it was my best option at the time. Any weird side effects. My girlfriend and I tend to use Kratom for the mild stimulant effect. The worst is ever done for me is make me nauseous enough to vomit, but I live in a state trying to ban all kratom now and the discourse around it is full of anecdotes of people claiming withdrawals as bad as heroin. Now I’m not a big heroin user, but I’ve been mildly addicted to certain substances (nicotine, weed). I don’t think I’ve ever had withdrawals from Kratom or really felt any craving for it. I’m really just hoping the busy-bodies don’t get their eyes on Kava.
- anon84873628 3mo agoI found this video from a kratom user very illuminating: https://youtu.be/TLObpcBR2yw https://youtu.be/TLObpcBR2yw
- platevoltage 3mo agoI think if you're at the stage where it still makes you nauseous, you're probably not at the point where you would experience any withdrawals.
- pstuart 3mo agoI have side effects that are significant enough to warrant finding another avenue to address the pain. I knew what I was getting into, but chronic pain is a bitch and I'll do whatever I can to minimize it.
- platevoltage 3mo ago
- arealaccount 3mo agoThey did this same dance about 10 years ago, and last minute caved to American Kratom Association and did not ban. This time AKA is lobbying FOR this ban, as 7oh gives kratom a really bad name.
- deleted 3mo ago[deleted]
- jesse_dot_id 3mo agoOur country loves to let unregulated & addictive drugs flood into the market, let people become dependent on them, pull the rug by making them illegal, and then arrest them for trying to comply with their addiction. Destroy their lives, cripple their families, send them to prison, get cheap labor. The American way.
- breezybottom 3mo ago[flagged]
- mghackerlady 3mo agoFigure out a less slavey way to deal with addiction
- rustcleaner 3mo agoWatching liberty get rug-pulled should be upsetting to everybody!
- breezybottom 3mo agoThat would make more sense if you didn't start by blaming the government for a laissez-faire approach.
- BizarroLand 3mo agoThis is not a helpful comment. Sometimes griping about injustice is a method of dealing with it, at least venting the stress to a sympathetic audience can reduce the stress a bit.
- burnt-resistor 3mo agoIt's the lack of the precautionary principle and regulation. Not only that, it lets things be legal and then requires victims to prove their harm was specifically linked to that substance or product. It's Russian roulette beta testing without informed consent.
- erelong 3mo agomore war on drugs slop / drivel as if no lessons were learned from alcohol Prohibition
- TheCoelacanth 3mo agoIt is insane that the people responsible for policing drugs get to decide what drugs are illegal. That's like letting the police decide if something is a crime or not. It's completely antithetical to democracy and the rule-of-law.
- ButlerianJihad 3mo agoI am forever indebted to Luc Besson for directing Léon: The Professional, the most sympathetic and realistic portrayal of DEA agents, headed by none other than Gary Oldman. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A9on:_The_Professional https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%A9on:_The_Professional I mean, considering that drugs and the war on drugs was only tangential to the storyline of this film, Besson succeeded in catching all viewers in a morally conflicted web. Can anyone identify the "good side" or innocents in this story?
- AmazingEveryDay 3mo agoI'll just say this: If your understanding of Kratom is via Youtube videos by "an odd guy who likes to investigate some really dodgy stuff", or other rando YT influencers, or even the ...great John Oliver, then perhaps your understanding of Kratom is incomplete.
- ButlerianJihad 3mo agoA few years ago, I ordered a large tome that had a lot of interesting information in it, and one section was on Kratom, its varieties, its benefits, and its effects. So I felt a little adventurous and I headed down to the "head shop" on the corner, and I picked up a pocket scale, and a bag of the Kratom variety that was touted as alleviating pain. The Kratom itself was powdered and unmeasured, so I also picked up a batch of "dime bags" and I carefully weighed out the Kratom in 500mg packets, so that each dose would be precise. So I started taking it, and sadly my pain was never mitigated or alleviated. In fact, I began suffering some really unwholesome adverse effects, but I continued taking the Kratom, in a spirit of experimentation, and surely it would eventually hit me, the way my body was trained to react to smoking cannabis. But that never happened. So I discontinued it. Looking more deeply into the Kratom section of my new book, I discovered that I had probably got the wrong variety of Kratom, the one that had only adverse and undesirable effects. Even though I had been careful to discern what type was being sold. So, I suspect that it was mislabeled. And I suspect that that was not an accident. And I did not churn through the other varieties, hoping to find the one that would "work on me" because I suspect that it was all a trap, for naïve student types. They probably didn't carry "the good kind" at all. So I left a bad review for the "head shop" and I've never returned. The pocket scale worked pretty good for weighing letters and other small mailpieces, though!