4 ms·

It's incredible how cheap it is to get custom PCBs made at prototype scale these days, even ones with advanced features. It feels like we're living in a golden

by Retr0id 3mo ago

It's incredible how cheap it is to get custom PCBs made at prototype scale these days, even ones with advanced features. It feels like we're living in a golden era of custom manufacturing.

klysm 3mo ago
This and sheet metal manufacturing from Oshcut have been game changers for me
- adamgoodapp 3mo ago
  They were just on Linus Tech Tip.
- taylor-tg 3mo ago
  To throw another in the mix, SendCutSend has consistently been a reliable and affordable option for 2D cut parts. They recently added CNC machining offerings, though I can't speak to their affordability on that. Overseas will almost always win on price (at least in small quantities), but it's hard to beat the turnaround from local manufacturers...
  - mschuster91 3mo ago
    > Overseas will almost always win on price (at least in small quantities), but it's hard to beat the turnaround from local manufacturers... Overseas can work with crazy turnarounds too. Once I ordered a bunch of stuff from Digikey, and the parcel came around from the tiny village of Thief River Falls MN to rural Bavaria in less than 30 hours, picking/handling included. And free shipping, despite being less than 100€ in volume.
tadasv 3mo ago
I was actually very surprised myself. As I mentioned in the post, I don't do that type of work so it's all new to me. This got me also interested in CAD. You can design parts and don't need to own the 3d printer, could just get parts manufactured online.
- geerlingguy 3mo ago
  Yeah, and since it seems there's some competition there, the prices are decent. You can get milled metal, 3D prints, populated PCBs... crazy what you can do now and how quickly it can be turned around, if you are willing to pay. I wish there were more regional places like PCBWay and JLCPCB in US, EU, etc (with similar pricing) so shipping didn't require circumnavigating the globe.
  - lrasinen 3mo ago
    EU has Aisler but what you win in shipping times you lose in production lead time (unless you pay for faster service). And there are probably others but with even less visibility / willingness to interact with private customers. Hell, I used to live next door to a sales office for a local PCB fab, but they never bothered to answer my inquiry about prototypes. (That's another thing the proto-friendly companies do right: instant quotes without log-in requirement)
    - ipdashc 3mo ago
      > but with even less visibility / willingness to interact with private customers It's honestly depressing. I could believe the theories (off vibes, since I'm not in manufacturing, just a hobbyist) that this is one of the reasons why China is overtaking the West in hardware. Manufacturers here just don't want to talk to you at all unless you're willing to buy a million units, it seems. From what I've heard, in China, it's far easier to get started (and that certainly matches my experience with jlc/pcbway). Like, I get it, profit wise. But it's a bit of a sad state of affairs.
ge96 3mo ago
It is unfortunate hope local companies like OSH Park get love too. The marketing of companies like JLC or pcbway whenever I post a hardware project on a website like Hackaday or Hackster always reach out to me to use em. Not that it would matter so many big makers on YT use em.
- Waterluvian 3mo ago
  Is the cost and quality comparable to the Chinese options?
  - bschwindHN 3mo ago
    OshPark's quality is high, but their prices are certainly higher too. Good to support them though if you live in the States, since that's where they manufacture the boards.
    - hananova 3mo ago
      That's kind of the problem though. jlc/pcbway aren't just "cheaper", for anything 2 or 4 layer that doesn't require special coatings, thickness, or finish such as gold fingers, it's just so cheap and fast that it makes no financial sense to buy locally. You'd pay several hundred percents more to get the boards maybe 1-2 business days earlier. In addition, china is where all the world's pcbs are made, even for commercial stuff, it's not unreasonable to expect them to deliver higher and more consistent quality than home fabs. The gap only begins to slightly close at more complex boards, but not that much.
      - wildzzz 3mo ago
        OSHPark is more comparable to JLC if you squeeze your design down to the absolute smallest footprint. They market to hobbyists but only in the sense that you're doing this as a side project to your regular hardware engineering job and have access to a rework station to install 0402s and BGAs (i.e. you have the skills and tools to actually design and build a tiny board). I wouldn't use OSHPark to make something the size of a conference badge unless I specifically needed it to be domestically produced or I was selling it. JLC offers purple and black soldermask too.
amelius 3mo ago
Yeah golden days for PCBs especially now the golden days for home built PCs seem to be over.
Animats 3mo ago
It's a loss leader by JLBPCB to get the high-volume contract. Or so said the head of OshPark eight years ago.[1] There does seem to be a willingness by Chinese manufacturers to deal with small-volume makers and sellers. Look at the minimum order quantities on Alibaba. That's supposed to be a wholesale market, but often wholesale starts at 2 units. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/PrintedCircuitBoard/comments/9bt5ed/how_come_jlcpcb_be_so_cheap_compared_to_others/ https://www.reddit.com/r/PrintedCircuitBoard/comments/9bt5ed...
- edg5000 3mo ago
  Their PCB service must be a loss leader, but their assembly service might be profitable. What's also a loss leader is their default configuration. Want .2mm vias? That's another 30$. Want to assemble both sides? More fees. So it gets more profitable for them not just with volume, but also with designs that require the add-on fees.

by Retr0id 3mo ago

It's incredible how cheap it is to get custom PCBs made at prototype scale these days, even ones with advanced features. It feels like we're living in a golden era of custom manufacturing.

klysm 3mo ago

This and sheet metal manufacturing from Oshcut have been game changers for me

adamgoodapp 3mo ago
They were just on Linus Tech Tip.
taylor-tg 3mo ago
To throw another in the mix, SendCutSend has consistently been a reliable and affordable option for 2D cut parts. They recently added CNC machining offerings, though I can't speak to their affordability on that. Overseas will almost always win on price (at least in small quantities), but it's hard to beat the turnaround from local manufacturers...
- mschuster91 3mo ago
  > Overseas will almost always win on price (at least in small quantities), but it's hard to beat the turnaround from local manufacturers... Overseas can work with crazy turnarounds too. Once I ordered a bunch of stuff from Digikey, and the parcel came around from the tiny village of Thief River Falls MN to rural Bavaria in less than 30 hours, picking/handling included. And free shipping, despite being less than 100€ in volume.

tadasv 3mo ago

I was actually very surprised myself. As I mentioned in the post, I don't do that type of work so it's all new to me. This got me also interested in CAD. You can design parts and don't need to own the 3d printer, could just get parts manufactured online.

geerlingguy 3mo ago
Yeah, and since it seems there's some competition there, the prices are decent. You can get milled metal, 3D prints, populated PCBs... crazy what you can do now and how quickly it can be turned around, if you are willing to pay. I wish there were more regional places like PCBWay and JLCPCB in US, EU, etc (with similar pricing) so shipping didn't require circumnavigating the globe.
- lrasinen 3mo ago
  EU has Aisler but what you win in shipping times you lose in production lead time (unless you pay for faster service). And there are probably others but with even less visibility / willingness to interact with private customers. Hell, I used to live next door to a sales office for a local PCB fab, but they never bothered to answer my inquiry about prototypes. (That's another thing the proto-friendly companies do right: instant quotes without log-in requirement)
  - ipdashc 3mo ago
    > but with even less visibility / willingness to interact with private customers It's honestly depressing. I could believe the theories (off vibes, since I'm not in manufacturing, just a hobbyist) that this is one of the reasons why China is overtaking the West in hardware. Manufacturers here just don't want to talk to you at all unless you're willing to buy a million units, it seems. From what I've heard, in China, it's far easier to get started (and that certainly matches my experience with jlc/pcbway). Like, I get it, profit wise. But it's a bit of a sad state of affairs.

ge96 3mo ago

It is unfortunate hope local companies like OSH Park get love too. The marketing of companies like JLC or pcbway whenever I post a hardware project on a website like Hackaday or Hackster always reach out to me to use em. Not that it would matter so many big makers on YT use em.

Waterluvian 3mo ago
Is the cost and quality comparable to the Chinese options?
- bschwindHN 3mo ago
  OshPark's quality is high, but their prices are certainly higher too. Good to support them though if you live in the States, since that's where they manufacture the boards.
  - hananova 3mo ago
    That's kind of the problem though. jlc/pcbway aren't just "cheaper", for anything 2 or 4 layer that doesn't require special coatings, thickness, or finish such as gold fingers, it's just so cheap and fast that it makes no financial sense to buy locally. You'd pay several hundred percents more to get the boards maybe 1-2 business days earlier. In addition, china is where all the world's pcbs are made, even for commercial stuff, it's not unreasonable to expect them to deliver higher and more consistent quality than home fabs. The gap only begins to slightly close at more complex boards, but not that much.
    - wildzzz 3mo ago
      OSHPark is more comparable to JLC if you squeeze your design down to the absolute smallest footprint. They market to hobbyists but only in the sense that you're doing this as a side project to your regular hardware engineering job and have access to a rework station to install 0402s and BGAs (i.e. you have the skills and tools to actually design and build a tiny board). I wouldn't use OSHPark to make something the size of a conference badge unless I specifically needed it to be domestically produced or I was selling it. JLC offers purple and black soldermask too.

amelius 3mo ago

Yeah golden days for PCBs especially now the golden days for home built PCs seem to be over.

Animats 3mo ago

It's a loss leader by JLBPCB to get the high-volume contract. Or so said the head of OshPark eight years ago.[1] There does seem to be a willingness by Chinese manufacturers to deal with small-volume makers and sellers. Look at the minimum order quantities on Alibaba. That's supposed to be a wholesale market, but often wholesale starts at 2 units. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/PrintedCircuitBoard/comments/9bt5ed/how_come_jlcpcb_be_so_cheap_compared_to_others/ https://www.reddit.com/r/PrintedCircuitBoard/comments/9bt5ed...

edg5000 3mo ago
Their PCB service must be a loss leader, but their assembly service might be profitable. What's also a loss leader is their default configuration. Want .2mm vias? That's another 30$. Want to assemble both sides? More fees. So it gets more profitable for them not just with volume, but also with designs that require the add-on fees.