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>Whenever I leave a company I make sure everything that belongs to the company goes back to them Because you're probably come from a high trust culture where y

>Whenever I leave a company I make sure everything that belongs to the company goes back to them Because you're probably come from a high trust culture where you've been taught reciprocal trust, responsibility and accountability, but there's people coming from low trust environments where exploiting loopholes and scamming everyone outside their inner circle is the norm, and it's the way they learned to get ahead in life, from school all the way to work and business. They're brazen because they've never been caught or suffered consequences for their actions. This isn't something you can screen for in a classic job interview.

AussieWog93 3mo ago
Ok, the implication that I'm reading between the lines is that this sort of behaviour is somehow more tolerated by people with names like Liu and Tan, but is this actually the case? I know there's some evidence of Chinese people working at big tech and feeding data back to the CCP but is this a "low trust culture" issue in general or an extrapolation of that one pattern?
- aobdev 3mo ago
  I think you’ve made an extreme leap in your interpretation of the comment you’re replying to…
  - mock-possum 3mo ago
    No, ‘high/low-trust culture’ has lately been co-opted as a racist dog whistle.
    - aobdev 3mo ago
      Huh, TIL. Thanks for pointing it out.
    - lotsofpulp 3mo ago
      I feel like it used to be an effective dog whistle, but has ceased to be since Trump and company came around.
    - deaux 3mo ago
      This isn't true at all in general online discourse. Maybe on X, in which case I'd recommend getting off of X. It's overwhelmingly brought up when talking about Japan (and sometimes Korea) in comparison to the US (or EU). With Japan (or Korea) being the high-trust culture in that comparison, and the US/EU being the low-trust one. I guarantee you can do a search across mentions of high/low-trust culture across online platforms in the last 12 months and the large majority will be these contexts, i.e. Western countries described low-trust, not high-trust.
      - AussieWog93 3mo ago
        I've definitely seen it used both ways, comparing Japan to other countries as well as India/Africa. I wouldn't necessarily call it a "racist dog whistle" myself, though - there is a very real pattern that's being pointed out but the reason I made the GP comment is that from my experience I would assume that Chinese culture is about as trustworthy as the West.
        girvo 3mo ago
        When One Nation here in Aus is yapping about “high trust societies” and talking about Japan etc. to me it is absolutely a racist dog whistle.
        SideburnsOfDoom 3mo ago
        > Maybe on X, in which case I'd recommend getting off of X. Agreed, get off X anyway. > This isn't true at all in general online discourse. Maybe, but is this relevant? Was the grandparent comment "general online discourse" or was it specific online discourse coming from a place that does in fact use such language in that way.
    - joe_mamba 3mo ago
      It hasn't. People are talking about specific events here. With your logic, every fact you dislike that makes your side of the argument look bad, can be dogwhitlse.
- mandevil 3mo ago
  Heh, as a (very white) American I presumed it was America in general today. From what I can see, it seems to be turning into a place where it's all scams, rug-pulls, crypto and sports gambling. This concerns me about the world that my 9 year old is growing up in, the only world he's ever known, even the early 2010s seemed to be higher trust than the past decade has felt like.
  - JKCalhoun 3mo ago
    That does seem like the way Capitalism is being presented these days. Move fast and break things struck me as also from the same "fuck it" ethos that pervades the Modern Valley. It might be the Valley attracts this kind (of sociopath?). In "the day" I watched as some co-workers popped from company to company, never staying for more than 6 months, and getting a salary bump with each jump. I guess good for them?
- markdown 3mo ago
  > Ok, the implication that I'm reading between the lines is that this sort of behaviour is somehow more tolerated by people with names like Liu and Tan, but is this actually the case? Of course not. Have you been following national news or politics the past few years, and the continued incredibly strong support bad actors received despite atrocious behavior and even allegedly criminal acts? The grandparent commentor is just racist.
  - sgarland 3mo ago
    > The grandparent comment is just racist. I wouldn’t jump to that conclusion. The concept of low and high-trust societies is well-studied [0], though how a given country maps to it may be disputed. 0: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3997396/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3997396/
- acdha 3mo ago
  You don’t have to look any first than the White House to say that behavior is well-established in American culture, too. From the prosperity gospel to “don’t hate the player”, etc. this is deeply not a Chinese thing.
- deleted 3mo ago
  [deleted]
mmcwilliams 3mo ago
Not sure you're being clear about what you mean, here. Is OpenAI's company culture something you consider "low trust"?
- wafflemaker 3mo ago
  It's more about people with "everybody steals so I should steal too" also known as "tylko frajer by nie ukradł" -- "only a loser wouldn't steal that" -- mentality. And while its somehow "cultural" it's more about people hanging together having similar moral views.
rafram 3mo ago
I’ve been seeing this “high-trust society” dog whistle a lot lately, and I think it’s one of the funniest of its kind. You truly want me to believe that the United States, a country with a history of slavery and segregation, a country that went through a historical period dominated by people literally called “robber barons,” was a high-trust society before immigrants from less industrialized places came and ruined that?
- junofan 3mo ago
  I think you could be more charitable, as GP said “culture,” not “society.” Apple alleges not only individual malfeasance, but also recruitment tactics like “show-and-tell” aimed at recruiting those willing to bring company secrets (and discriminating against those who would not). This is enough to constitute a low-trust culture that self-perpetuates. Surely given the size of China there are plenty of honorable people. And surely in the US there are many dishonorable people, as you’ve pointed out.
- dd8601fn 3mo ago
  US office culture is generally pretty high trust. It has relatively high autonomy, authority, and low surveillance norms. I don't know what that has to do with a historical period of slavery.
  - t0mpr1c3 3mo ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driving_while_black https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driving_while_black
    - minittsnet 3mo ago
      [dead]
  - ninjagoo 3mo ago
    > US office culture is generally pretty high trust. It has relatively high autonomy, authority, and low surveillance norms. Unless you're black, or other disadvantaged minority
noisy_boy 3mo ago
> Because you're probably come from a high trust culture where you've been taught reciprocal trust... That is just a long sentence for "us" vs "those people". Having said that I don't entirely deny the effect of society on people's behavior. But at the same time, I have seen people from so called high-trust society being all polished and nice on the surface while being assholes and people from so called low-trust society being genuinely decent people despite not having the right name or the surface polish. Also, assholes tend to attract assholes and people of the same tribe/clan/race tend to form groups.
rixed 3mo ago
> This isn't something you can screen for in a classic job interview Why not? Sounds not that hard. I actually believe this is something that would make a candidate looks good in an interview for many large corporations.
- mejutoco 3mo ago
  I remember that experiment where they live kids with candy alone and see who takes it and lies about it.
- joe_mamba 3mo ago
  >Why not? Because people lie?
MrBuddyCasino 3mo ago
> This isn't something you can screen for in a classic job interview. It is in fact very easy to scan for.
ninjagoo 3mo ago
> Because you're probably come from a high trust culture where you've been taught reciprocal trust, responsibility and accountability, but there's people coming from low trust environments where exploiting loopholes and scamming everyone outside their inner circle is the norm, and it's the way they learned to get ahead in life, from school all the way to work and business. For an adult, I would attribute this more to internal mental makeup than anything else. I've seen individuals exhibit these positive and negative behaviors irrespective of whether they were in a high-trust society or a low-trust one, a wealthy society or a poverty-riddled one. Additionally, based on what's going on in the world, I would say that there are very clear signs that a high-trust society is formed when adults with positive behaviors are in power, and a low-trust society is formed when adults with negative behaviors gain power. Indubitably, there are individuals whose behaviors are moderated by what type of society they're in, but that split between moderated individuals and self-driven individuals is, IMHO, unknown, or at least, unknown to me.
- joe_mamba 3mo ago
  >I've seen individuals Societies as a collection of all individuals matter more than individual individuals.That's why Japan is the way Japan is and India the way India is. >Additionally, based on what's going on in the world, I would say that there are very clear signs that a high-trust society is formed when adults with positive behaviors are in power, and a low-trust society is formed when adults with negative behaviors gain power. Every society on the planet from Japan to North America has its own robber barons that are above the law, the difference is in Taiwan, Japan or Singapore I'm not afraid of getting mugged, broken into or sexually assaulted on the streets at night, or having my bike stolen, and people queue politely and orderly for riding the bus. And in democracies, the behavior of those elected into power is a direct reflection of that society and its population. Trump didn't make America like that, American people made America's leader be like that. Trump is a reflection of your society that's why he got into power, because people see themselves in him. Don't blame your leader for how your society looks, blame your society for your leader looks.
  - ninjagoo 3mo ago

AussieWog93 3mo ago

Ok, the implication that I'm reading between the lines is that this sort of behaviour is somehow more tolerated by people with names like Liu and Tan, but is this actually the case? I know there's some evidence of Chinese people working at big tech and feeding data back to the CCP but is this a "low trust culture" issue in general or an extrapolation of that one pattern?

aobdev 3mo ago
I think you’ve made an extreme leap in your interpretation of the comment you’re replying to…
- mock-possum 3mo ago
  No, ‘high/low-trust culture’ has lately been co-opted as a racist dog whistle.
  - aobdev 3mo ago
    Huh, TIL. Thanks for pointing it out.
  - lotsofpulp 3mo ago
    I feel like it used to be an effective dog whistle, but has ceased to be since Trump and company came around.
  - deaux 3mo ago
    This isn't true at all in general online discourse. Maybe on X, in which case I'd recommend getting off of X. It's overwhelmingly brought up when talking about Japan (and sometimes Korea) in comparison to the US (or EU). With Japan (or Korea) being the high-trust culture in that comparison, and the US/EU being the low-trust one. I guarantee you can do a search across mentions of high/low-trust culture across online platforms in the last 12 months and the large majority will be these contexts, i.e. Western countries described low-trust, not high-trust.
    - AussieWog93 3mo ago
      I've definitely seen it used both ways, comparing Japan to other countries as well as India/Africa. I wouldn't necessarily call it a "racist dog whistle" myself, though - there is a very real pattern that's being pointed out but the reason I made the GP comment is that from my experience I would assume that Chinese culture is about as trustworthy as the West.
      - girvo 3mo ago
        When One Nation here in Aus is yapping about “high trust societies” and talking about Japan etc. to me it is absolutely a racist dog whistle.
      - SideburnsOfDoom 3mo ago
        > Maybe on X, in which case I'd recommend getting off of X. Agreed, get off X anyway. > This isn't true at all in general online discourse. Maybe, but is this relevant? Was the grandparent comment "general online discourse" or was it specific online discourse coming from a place that does in fact use such language in that way.
  - joe_mamba 3mo ago
    It hasn't. People are talking about specific events here. With your logic, every fact you dislike that makes your side of the argument look bad, can be dogwhitlse.
mandevil 3mo ago
Heh, as a (very white) American I presumed it was America in general today. From what I can see, it seems to be turning into a place where it's all scams, rug-pulls, crypto and sports gambling. This concerns me about the world that my 9 year old is growing up in, the only world he's ever known, even the early 2010s seemed to be higher trust than the past decade has felt like.
- JKCalhoun 3mo ago
  That does seem like the way Capitalism is being presented these days. Move fast and break things struck me as also from the same "fuck it" ethos that pervades the Modern Valley. It might be the Valley attracts this kind (of sociopath?). In "the day" I watched as some co-workers popped from company to company, never staying for more than 6 months, and getting a salary bump with each jump. I guess good for them?
markdown 3mo ago
> Ok, the implication that I'm reading between the lines is that this sort of behaviour is somehow more tolerated by people with names like Liu and Tan, but is this actually the case? Of course not. Have you been following national news or politics the past few years, and the continued incredibly strong support bad actors received despite atrocious behavior and even allegedly criminal acts? The grandparent commentor is just racist.
- sgarland 3mo ago
  > The grandparent comment is just racist. I wouldn’t jump to that conclusion. The concept of low and high-trust societies is well-studied [0], though how a given country maps to it may be disputed. 0: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3997396/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3997396/
acdha 3mo ago
You don’t have to look any first than the White House to say that behavior is well-established in American culture, too. From the prosperity gospel to “don’t hate the player”, etc. this is deeply not a Chinese thing.
deleted 3mo ago
[deleted]

mmcwilliams 3mo ago

Not sure you're being clear about what you mean, here. Is OpenAI's company culture something you consider "low trust"?

wafflemaker 3mo ago
It's more about people with "everybody steals so I should steal too" also known as "tylko frajer by nie ukradł" -- "only a loser wouldn't steal that" -- mentality. And while its somehow "cultural" it's more about people hanging together having similar moral views.

rafram 3mo ago

I’ve been seeing this “high-trust society” dog whistle a lot lately, and I think it’s one of the funniest of its kind. You truly want me to believe that the United States, a country with a history of slavery and segregation, a country that went through a historical period dominated by people literally called “robber barons,” was a high-trust society before immigrants from less industrialized places came and ruined that?

junofan 3mo ago
I think you could be more charitable, as GP said “culture,” not “society.” Apple alleges not only individual malfeasance, but also recruitment tactics like “show-and-tell” aimed at recruiting those willing to bring company secrets (and discriminating against those who would not). This is enough to constitute a low-trust culture that self-perpetuates. Surely given the size of China there are plenty of honorable people. And surely in the US there are many dishonorable people, as you’ve pointed out.
dd8601fn 3mo ago
US office culture is generally pretty high trust. It has relatively high autonomy, authority, and low surveillance norms. I don't know what that has to do with a historical period of slavery.
- t0mpr1c3 3mo ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driving_while_black https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driving_while_black
  - minittsnet 3mo ago
    [dead]
- ninjagoo 3mo ago
  > US office culture is generally pretty high trust. It has relatively high autonomy, authority, and low surveillance norms. Unless you're black, or other disadvantaged minority

noisy_boy 3mo ago

> Because you're probably come from a high trust culture where you've been taught reciprocal trust... That is just a long sentence for "us" vs "those people". Having said that I don't entirely deny the effect of society on people's behavior. But at the same time, I have seen people from so called high-trust society being all polished and nice on the surface while being assholes and people from so called low-trust society being genuinely decent people despite not having the right name or the surface polish. Also, assholes tend to attract assholes and people of the same tribe/clan/race tend to form groups.

rixed 3mo ago

> This isn't something you can screen for in a classic job interview Why not? Sounds not that hard. I actually believe this is something that would make a candidate looks good in an interview for many large corporations.

mejutoco 3mo ago
I remember that experiment where they live kids with candy alone and see who takes it and lies about it.
joe_mamba 3mo ago
>Why not? Because people lie?

MrBuddyCasino 3mo ago

> This isn't something you can screen for in a classic job interview. It is in fact very easy to scan for.

ninjagoo 3mo ago

> Because you're probably come from a high trust culture where you've been taught reciprocal trust, responsibility and accountability, but there's people coming from low trust environments where exploiting loopholes and scamming everyone outside their inner circle is the norm, and it's the way they learned to get ahead in life, from school all the way to work and business. For an adult, I would attribute this more to internal mental makeup than anything else. I've seen individuals exhibit these positive and negative behaviors irrespective of whether they were in a high-trust society or a low-trust one, a wealthy society or a poverty-riddled one. Additionally, based on what's going on in the world, I would say that there are very clear signs that a high-trust society is formed when adults with positive behaviors are in power, and a low-trust society is formed when adults with negative behaviors gain power. Indubitably, there are individuals whose behaviors are moderated by what type of society they're in, but that split between moderated individuals and self-driven individuals is, IMHO, unknown, or at least, unknown to me.

joe_mamba 3mo ago
>I've seen individuals Societies as a collection of all individuals matter more than individual individuals.That's why Japan is the way Japan is and India the way India is. >Additionally, based on what's going on in the world, I would say that there are very clear signs that a high-trust society is formed when adults with positive behaviors are in power, and a low-trust society is formed when adults with negative behaviors gain power. Every society on the planet from Japan to North America has its own robber barons that are above the law, the difference is in Taiwan, Japan or Singapore I'm not afraid of getting mugged, broken into or sexually assaulted on the streets at night, or having my bike stolen, and people queue politely and orderly for riding the bus. And in democracies, the behavior of those elected into power is a direct reflection of that society and its population. Trump didn't make America like that, American people made America's leader be like that. Trump is a reflection of your society that's why he got into power, because people see themselves in him. Don't blame your leader for how your society looks, blame your society for your leader looks.
- ninjagoo 3mo ago