18 ms·

Punk, or why I don't stream anymore

207 points by surprisetalk 3mo ago

dgellow 3mo ago
> What killed the hacker culture I grew up in was spectacle. That’s so rich from someone known for his public stunts against Sony & co
- stavros 3mo ago
  What public stunts? He jailbroke a console, it's not like he went on a talk show.
  - Havoc 3mo ago
    Google his Sony Court case dis Track and you’ll see
  - red-iron-pine 3mo ago
    dude was cracking iphones for the glory and lulz as much as for practical access reasons lots of folks be working on exploits and jailbreaks who, as a rule, STFU 100% OpSec 100% of the time "the real, scary hitmen aren't the ones bragging about it"
    - stavros 3mo ago
      Unlike murder, finding an exploit isn't illegal.
      - red-iron-pine 3mo ago
        tell that to sony, who definitely sued his ass
      - dgellow 3mo ago
        Depending on the jurisdiction it is, reverse engineering has pretty strict restrictions
  - dgellow 3mo ago
    If you were following the scene at the time, geohot was absolutely non stop trolling publicly. He was by far the best at pushing big corporations buttons. The obvious example is the Sony distrack, but that’s only the top of the iceberg. He was pretty much the definition of a rockstar in the hacker world, leaking to the mainstream. His persona and following was already well established when he started looking at the ps3. Wild times
- eloisius 3mo ago
  I think his usage of spectacle here is the "spectate" kind, not the hullabaloo kind. Spectacles are created to be consumed from the sidelines as a spectator, rather than directly participated in. Being involved, not a spectator, is the root of punk ethos. Bad music and outlandish hair was always just the window dressing. Say what you like about geohot's public behavior and his long string of half-finished projects, but he's always been very DIY and I respect that about him.
v9v 3mo ago
Parts of this reminded me of the book "Sadly, Porn".
- robocat 3mo ago
  [dead]
mmillin 3mo ago
Feels very related to the idea of refinement culture: https://lindynewsletter.beehiiv.com/p/refinement-culture https://lindynewsletter.beehiiv.com/p/refinement-culture While the connectedness of our world allows for great ideas to be spread and shared, there’s a huge reduction in actual variety. I don’t know what the solution is.
- delichon 3mo ago
  > I don’t know what the solution is. Interstellar diaspora. Interplanetary diaspora isn't far enough apart.
- thundergolfer 3mo ago
  Not really that related. Refinement culture is concerned with evolving aesthetics and marketing which is partly a response to globalization and the rising middle classes of asia, partly related to digitization, and partly just a normal evolution of style. What George is talking about here is much more related to the ideas of Nick Land, technocapital, Marshall McLuhan, and man's relationship to industrialization. > Isolation is basically impossible because the Internet follows you everywhere. And it’s perfectly uniform, there is no other Internet, just a place with five corporate towns and some Chinese ones that are really hard to visit if you don’t speak Chinese. This is McLuhan's "global village". > I don’t think I’m properly capturing the scope of the machine. First you build the fence to keep the animals out then you build the fence to keep the animals in. It’s a Fullmetal Alchemist homunculus maybe it has already eaten your soul. This is Nick Land.
  - acron0 3mo ago
    I think 99% of the commenters in this thread seem totally tone deaf to the article and the phenomenon being attacked by geohot. Granted, he doesn't articulate it well, but as you say, these aren't new concepts and much better introduced by Nick Land, Mark Fisher, Byung-chul Han etc.
delichon 3mo ago
> But the difference is that you didn’t do anything. And in so much as there is a you, it isn’t steering. Now I realize that the non steering you is everywhere. Jesse: I was thinking about that thing you said about the universe. Going where the universe takes you? Right on. It's a cool philosophy. Jane: I was being metaphorical, it's a terrible philosophy. I've gone where the universe takes me my whole life. It's better to make those decisions for yourself. El Camino, 2019
- jareklupinski 3mo ago
  i think there's a balance, where you know where you want to get to and strive to course-correct towards it over time, but allow your present circumstances to choose which one of the infinite ways is going there today
- NetMageSCW 3mo ago
  You choose the life you lead. If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
awakeasleep 3mo ago
overall, too much of this makes sense. The only part I have any objection to is the part about when you're using an AI to make something, you are not steering. I think you only give up the steering on the how, but the "what" and the "why", which were always the more important parts, in my opinion, are still in your hands. There has always been tension on that specific point, and it's what made being a programmer in a company you don't own so painful.
- phoghed 3mo ago
  Even the “how” you only give up as much as you are willing to.
ozgrakkurt 3mo ago
I have similar feelings but also think this is mostly an effect of more people participating. The people that create slop garbage profiles or cookie-cutter profiles didn't have very quirky profiles before. The probably didn't even participate before. The quirky stuff is still there and maybe there is even more of it but it takes effort to find it instead of being able to go online and everything being novel.
gooddelta 3mo ago
This slop is exactly what ChatGPT spits out when it's leading you down the hole of AI psychosis.
- myrmidon 3mo ago
  > AI psychosis. No need to be so dramatic, might just be a bit of an early midlife crisis thing. I liked the post, some interesting takes.
- operatingthetan 3mo ago
  Eh not really. It's more like it starts explaining to the user that they are very special, and they discovered this unique intellectual thing in the AI slop that no one ever has, then starts convincing them it's mystical or similar. Just feeding the user magical narcissism basically.
consumer451 3mo ago
> Oh god people actually go on a hinge date to axe throwing and think it’s the real world. Hinge dates and axe throwing are not my world. I also didn't go to pop band concerts and meat market bars in the olden times. I don't judge the people who did, at least now I don't.
- xoac 3mo ago
  You are a good consumer, consumer451, because you don't judge other consumers' consumption habits.
  - deleted 3mo ago
    [deleted]
- gotodengo 3mo ago
  While I agree with you, that disagreement with the author (and not in a my side vs. your side talking point kinda way) is one of the things I liked. I don't think anyone other than geohot himself would agree with the full thing, but that's his point. >I’ve been scraping dating sites and feeding them to ChatGPT, and it’s amazing how few of the profiles still say anything about the person. There are no rough edges, it’s basically marketing copy. Reflected back and forth in their heads with this “society” mirror so many times that there’s no identity or coherence left, just a mush of diffuse monochrome light.
  - consumer451 3mo ago
    > I don't think anyone other than geohot himself would agree with the full thing, but that's his point. OK, that makes a bunch more sense to me. Thanks for sharing that interpretation.
- sarchertech 3mo ago
  > Oh god people actually go on a hinge date to axe throwing and think it’s the real world. My experience with dating apps was mostly awful, but then I met my wife on one. Now we’re happily married with 3 kids. Axe throwing is just a business fad like so many before it. This started long before the internet. Pinball arcades, video game arcades, tanning salons, self storage, frozen yogurt. The list goes on and on. Not sure what my point is, I guess it’s mostly this has nothing to do with the internet or with now. If the author were writing this in the 80s he’d be complaining about people hanging out in malls. If it were written in the 50s he’d be complaining about drive-in movies and restaurants, and tract houses. Go back earlier and he’d probably be complaining about electrification. To be fair I think we should be more intentional about our adoption of technology, but nostalgia is a hell of a drug that is best avoided.
inigyou 3mo ago
geohot is lucky to have grown up in proper hacker culture, doing CTFs, poking at hardware. I've only touched the surface of this from the outside. One time I got root on my network switch, but that was about it. And now I feel like I've wasted my life. Geohot made a pretty big difference to the world with his hardware hacking. Separate thought: This new information world can be fought, but it's the war against capital and power, and that cannot be won, only resisted until the side with the capital and power becomes so incompetent and detached from reality that it collapses by itself (this is happening now, slowly; it happened already in the Soviet Union), and then we can shape what comes afterwards. But there probably won't be as much computer technology post-collapse.
- iamnothere 3mo ago
  The key, as I’ve been saying lately, is to begin building more local networks (meshes, IP over radio, sneakernets) that are totally disconnected from the normal internet. Put up a BBS that your friends can only get to by connecting over radio, or set up a private Reticulum chat with a functional non-Internet access path. Maybe set up a neighborhood wifi captive portal message board on an ESP32, hidden in a solar light. If there are Bad Times ahead, it will be good to have this as a tested option. If not, you get a cozy private space to talk with people you know, outside of the surveillance grid.
  - xpct 3mo ago
    I love the idea of this, but I don't think I could convince my friends to use it over mainstream platforms.
  - inigyou 3mo ago
    But they're objectively inferior to the real internet and nobody uses them. People only use Meshtastic to say "hello, I'm using Meshtastic!" A cool idea would be to build out an ISP to a small set of hub locations using leased lines or illegally placed fiber something, but that will get expensive. I heard someone have an idea to use a drone to lay illegal fiber across city rooftops.
paxys 3mo ago
> AI is making this all so much worse. When you are prompting you feel like you are steering, but are you really? Would you know if you weren’t? This one hits hard. I feel more and more that AI-assisted creation is really just consumption. And it’s worse because it gives a false sense of creativity. Are we really expressing ourselves and challenging ourselves by pressing a button and generating the same slop as a million other people?
- xoac 3mo ago
  Wasn't this obvious?
  - krapp 3mo ago
    Spend some time on HN reading people's comments about how AI frees them and liberates their minds and lets them be creative in ways that were never possible before and how anyone who thinks otherwise is just a Luddite. You'll realize how not obvious it is to many people. You (collective you, not you personally) are just consuming a product. The LLM is a product. The model is a product. You're reheating spam from the can in the microwave and acting like you're Gordon Ramsey. But you don't know how to cook, all you know how to do is push buttons. And worst of all, you probably think anyone who bothers to learn how to prepare food with their hands is a rube.
    - NetMageSCW 3mo ago
      Or are they right and you’re the one saying if you don’t know how to saddle a horse and rub it down you shouldn’t consider yourself a driver?
      - krapp 3mo ago
        Thank you for demonstrating my point so perfectly.
    - cliglot 3mo ago
      [dead]
ShinyLeftPad 3mo ago
> I’ve been scraping dating sites and feeding them to ChatGPT Why...
- tangenter 3mo ago
  Because it’s a numbers game and nothing wrong with playing to win.
  - ShinyLeftPad 3mo ago
    Should we also talk to dates using chatgpt? is a numbers game, play to win!
  - red-iron-pine 3mo ago
    lets abstract the human interaction process even futher and homeboy is a rich tech bro, he doesn't have to play the numbers game
hptnrr 3mo ago
ChatGPT does not know more than you. The fallacy is always that you compare AI to a human without literature references and a database. This is most egregious in chess engines that literally have endgame databases for example. Would Carlsen have won game six against Nepo if Nepo had had a tablebase? No, it was a draw many times. Hacker culture has slowly been subverted since the mediocre developers of open source projects sold out to corporations and became managers of the A developers. Literally like pg wrote: C students manage the A students. Except that in open source this was a novelty and the A students were too timid or conflict averse to fork.
- everdrive 3mo ago
  >ChatGPT does not know more than you. Maybe in the area of your expertise, but ChatGPT probably knows most of the Habsburg dynasty. (just as one example) The breadth of knowledge, even when the depth is quirky and limited, is genuinely a big deal.
- ben_w 3mo ago
  > ChatGPT does not know more than you. The fallacy is always that you compare AI to a human without literature references and a database. If the human needs a literature references and a database to answer a question, can they be said to "know" the answer? ChatGPT doesn't have an endgame database for chess. Despite having "read" all the literature about chess, it will hallucinate the board state if you try to play chess with it directly. But it "knows" how to write a chess engine that would beat me… and more than that, one which would beat a competent player. It is a very weird and spiky form of intelligence, but it's also definitely not just a database.
  - 1Bas-12g 3mo ago
    If Stockfish uses a table base to play endgames, does it play chess? If a CPU needs RAM and disk access to give answers, does it "know" the material?
    - ben_w 3mo ago
      > If Stockfish uses a table base to play endgames, does it play chess? It would be very impressive to watch this, but irrelevant: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=%22table+base%22&t=osx&ia=images&iax=images https://duckduckgo.com/?q=%22table+base%22&t=osx&ia=images&i... > If a CPU needs RAM and disk access to give answers, does it "know" the material? If you need to have a prefrontal cortex (RAM) and hippocampus (disk access), same question. (The answer is "yes, obviously that's fine, why would you even ask").
everdrive 3mo ago
I really like this style of writing in short bursts, and I appreciate the author's tone and concerns. I do wonder if the author is very young. As much as I enjoyed his small essay, a few things stuck right out at me: >I tried having a flip phone once (2014), but you couldn’t find out what time the movies were playing because moviephone just redirected you to their app. This has been a solved problem for a long time: you look up the movie times and such prior to departing for the movies. No smartphone needed. >And it’s not like there’s anywhere to go. The real world is strip malls and axe throwing and escape rooms. Oh god people actually go on a hinge date to axe throwing and think it’s the real world. You can escape, but you'll never hear about it by either checking online, or by listening to very-online people. Go on a hike. It doesn't even have to be a good one. Just go do it. Maybe say hi to some people you meet while you're there. You probably won't develop a deep friendship with them, but you will have a real, face-to-face human interaction. Living away from the internet can now only be done intentionally. It can be done, though, but it's not the automatic choice. It's not even difficult ... it's just "manual." You must always think about what you want to do and how you want to do it. It's a skill that will come back to you. Or, if the author never learned it, a skill he still has a chance to learn. What we've lost is getting to feel like you're connected to a common culture. This is a big, big loss, but it is not everything. The tools you need to escape are all around you. Power off your devices. Get some books at your local library. Try leaving your devices off all weekend, even when you get anxious, and bored, and your brain cries out for the easy, automatic stimulation it's become so accustomed to. Lay in bed and stare at the ceiling until your brain creates interesting thoughts out of your boredom. It's possible.
- matltc 3mo ago
  Well idk if the author is actually geohot but if it is then look him up. Famous hacker from cmu ppp, I think he was first to jailbreak iPhone 4
  - dgellow 3mo ago
    Yes it’s geohot’s blog. He’s also active on HN from time to time
  - 3mo ago
finnthehuman 3mo ago
The bit about stream viewers is interesting. What is the typical viewer experience? I assumed watching streams is similar to watching vs participating in sports. I played a few as a teen, got quite good at one. As much as I like watching highly talented people apply their skill it does nothing to scratch the participatory itch.
- Havoc 3mo ago
  >What is the typical viewer experience? Think it depends a lot on the type of stream. The vibes are all over the place. Say gaming stream, live walking stream vs a talking stream vs a podcast stream. Size of the stream also matters. If you're regularly in the comments of a 50 person stream commentators recognise each other and there is interaction not entirely unlike old school forums that have regulars. In a 1000+ stream nope. So I don't think there is such a thing as a typical experience. The main one I follow is a talking stream of someone I've been following for years. So has a bit of old friend vibe in that you know a lot about this person & it's a comforting presence. But of course its all parasocial and one direction only (mostly) so old friend parallel is kinda fake.
firasd 3mo ago
This lament about the superficiality of publicly oriented endeavors is interesting cause this guy's life is inseparable from meta commentary. "George Francis Hotz (born October 2, 1989), known online by geohot, is an American security hacker, entrepreneur,[1] and software engineer. He is known for developing iOS jailbreaks,[2][3] reverse engineering the PlayStation 3, and for the subsequent lawsuit brought against him by Sony. From September 2015 until November 2025, he worked on his vehicle automation machine learning company comma.ai.[4] Since November 2022, Hotz has been working on tinygrad, a deep learning framework." From the early legal controversy to today, if there's one thing we can expect from geohot, it's that he's gonna think he's god's gift to programming and everyone whose work he disagrees with are losers. But the bluster often doesn't result in much eg his plan to 'fix twitter search' didn't amount to anything (and today in June 2026 twitter search is way less reliable than it was pre-Elon/Hotz/etc in Oct 2022-- but I guess we can't say it's Hotz's fault cause like I said he did approximately nothing) Punk is actually a good metaphor because the the angst in the music became the blockbuster 'brand' of the music. Being jaded and cynical doesn't make you inherently more interesting it just leaves you--'here', wherever this post is. The programmer equivalent of sporting a studded leather jacket and green mohawk
- tangenter 3mo ago
  [flagged]
  - khalic 3mo ago
    lol, are you the author by any chance?
    - myrmidon 3mo ago
      Unlikely. This is him, at least according to that account: https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=georgehotz https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=georgehotz
      - khalic 3mo ago
mellosouls 3mo ago
For anybody misled by the title and still a bit confused by the article he's not referring to music. This is clever-clogs George Hotz of hacking, comma.ai and tinygrad etc fame. He used (?) to live stream hacker stuff like long running coding sessions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Hotz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Hotz Unofficial video archive: https://youtube.com/@geohotarchive/videos https://youtube.com/@geohotarchive/videos
- NetMageSCW 3mo ago
  From the title, I thought it was video. From the post, I thought it was gaming.
rmunn 3mo ago
From the article: "... there is no other Internet, just a place with five corporate towns and some Chinese ones that are really hard to visit if you don’t speak Chinese." Yeah, that's only true if you don't hang out in the old-style Internet. I spend most of my time on blogs, reading and replying to discussions on wide-ranging topics, talking to interesting people who know a lot more than I do about many subjects (in fact, most subjects that aren't computer programming) The discussion isn't on Disqus, it's not monetized, it's just... people talking to each other. And it's an active, fun community. They're out there. Just... choose to disengage with the boring communities. I haven't had a Facebook account in years; I only got one because at the time there was a social group I belonged to that was using Facebook as their primary communication tool, and when I moved to another city I deleted my Facebook account. I never signed up for Twitter. Didn't want an account when it started, didn't want one five years ago, don't want one now. It's possible to disengage from the artificial, and find real communication with real people. The first step is to just... stop logging onto Facebook. Just walk away.
- justjash 3mo ago
  I miss all the old forums that have died out. Still some gems out there, but not nearly as active anymore as far as my hobbies and interest go.
  - mingus88 3mo ago
    Ironically, when people moved their communities to Reddit and discord they only helped to enable the AI theft of this culture Forums were easy to search. The threads were mostly chronological and easy to stay in touch with. These corporate platforms are designed to promote reposting. Always “new” content and impossible to find anything else. keep the user reloading that feed at all costs. And behind the scenes the corporations are mining your activity I’m somewhat optimistic that as future generations of LLMs keep scanning this new LLM driven social media landscape, the models will collapse and the content will just suck more and more. And people with interesting takes and novel ways of expressing them leave the corporate platforms, and we return to the humble days of user owned platforms without all the bots After all, it’s easier than ever to build a platform now that we have LLMs to do all the chore work
deleted 3mo ago
[deleted]
khalic 3mo ago
What an unpleasant read
- NoGravitas 3mo ago
  It's an unpleasant world. Hard to write about pleasantly.
  - Planktonne 3mo ago
    I don't think you're ascribing enough agency to the writer here.
- codemog 3mo ago
  Reads like a man who put off searching for a real relationship for too long, but also didn’t develop that part of himself to maintain one. Then a bunch of existentialism blaming anything but himself. Could be compounded by his location, for example, it’s hard to find a wife in Miami ;) The loneliness could take him to dark places. I’ve been there. I hope he finds someone.
  - brcmthrowaway 3mo ago
    He had a girlfriend in livestream and was also on SeekingArrangement. He's rich from tech so what happened?
    - bena 3mo ago
      He was looking for a sugar baby?
  - inigyou 3mo ago
    Are romantic relationships really the only thing that people find meaning in in later life? If so, I'm fucked.
jacknews 3mo ago
We've got used to 'reasonable' society and politics in the last few centuries, but check out politics in developing nations or dictatorships, or woke, or Trump or places like pageantry. All fake news and gossip and performance, and AI just makes this potentially much much worse. It already has a name in academia I think, post-truth, or post-reality or whatever, I think it all started with the French post-modernism thing, then critical theory, etc. But I'm not sure it's a post- 'advance' at all, but more like a rejection of the enlightenment and a return to the tribal village.
- inigyou 3mo ago
  post- means after, not better
  - jacknews 3mo ago
    By 'advance' I meant 'a further exploration', moving on to something new, not necessarily better. But it seems like we're just going back to a previous time.
skizm 3mo ago
The only thing I will now remember this guy for is when he volunteered to work for Twitter/X after Elon took over. He failed to get twitter code building locally for about 4 weeks when attempting to change some placeholder text in the twitter search bar. He ultimately couldn't figure it out and then immediately quit lol. He even ran a poll on his twitter asking if he should quit, most people voted "NO" then he quit anyway.
- the_real_cher 3mo ago
  To be fair I think he's more of a hardware guy.
- aftbit 3mo ago
  I'll never forget Cydia or the PS3 hacks lol.
  - consumer451 3mo ago
    Same here. While I diverge from his opinion trees on many things these days, dude is/was an absolute rockstar to me.
- yellow_lead 3mo ago
  Guy was also tryna hire other interns as an intern himself, lol
  - mingus88 3mo ago
    That’s called a “referral”
- rustybolt 3mo ago
  If you ever saw this guy program you know he's very competent so IMHO that reflects badly on twitter, tbh.
  - skizm 3mo ago
    Totally fair! I think it is more of a reminder that making impact at large companies can be hard even for competent people.
dwroberts 3mo ago
When I read stuff like this, I think the people involved need to go outside and touch grass. I don’t mean that in a mean or reductive way. But something about this kind of assumption that things will get more elaborate and more abstract forever (when he’s talking about the future war for your inner reality) as if there are infinite resources, just strikes me as disconnected from physical reality in a way that feels particularly weird
- paradox460 3mo ago
  There's something strong to be said about it, and not in a mean way When I was laid off a couple months ago, the first thing I did was go out and mow my lawn. One hour of simple, clean labor, with clear progress, goals, and solitude. It helped me stay out of a bad mental frame, and when I finished I went inside and sent out a few hundred applications Over the next several weeks, I spent a lot of time that wasn't spent on finding a new job working on my yard. Fixing sprinklers, cleaning up the edges of the grass, turning, peating, and mulching garden beds, and more While this job search period took longer than any of my past ones, and ostensibly should have been more stressful, it wasn't. Is that because I spent most of the downtime working outdoors? Probably, who knows? It was certainly a better use of my time than sitting indoors moping
  - dwroberts 3mo ago
    Although I’ve not been laid off (sorry to hear that), had a similar experience tending to my garden recently. Working to keep some fussy plants alive in my garden has been surprisingly therapeutic and put a lot of other stuff in perspective
    - paradox460 3mo ago
      While the layoff was inconvenient, yes, it's put me in a better place at a better company. I was stagnant at my old one and starting to hate my work I used to laugh at the king of the hill joke "Why would anyone do drugs when you could mow the lawn" but now I understand it completely
  - 3mo ago
matt_daemon 3mo ago
Poor George
embedding-shape 3mo ago
This post feels like how my own notes are done before they're polished into a proper "article/blog post" or whatever, and I genuinely appreciate what seems like a stream of consciousness from the author made public (not sure I'd dare to), even though I don't personally agree with it all. > The new war demands your inner reality. The new war will be weird in all sorts of new ways we can’t even imagine yet. I've been orienting myself towards this already being true as well, and think we still haven't even started to see this taken to its (logical) extreme. If nothing else, it'll at least be interesting to see all the effects and methods around this, and all the cool mind reading toys.
terminalbraid 3mo ago
I appreciate the commentary, but there's some irony of this being hosted on a github.io space.
cliglot 3mo ago
> I’ve been scraping dating sites and feeding them to ChatGPT, and it’s amazing how few of the profiles still say anything about the person. I’ve long described dating apps as “distilling an entire person into a few curated photos and a snippet of text”. In all dating app profile advice I’ve ever seen, creativity, personality, and anything against the grain is highly discouraged. No wonder they barely work.
- ambicapter 3mo ago
  So he fed millions of profiles into a summarization machine and was surprised to find no sharp edges? Crazy work.
- red-iron-pine 3mo ago
  i'd argue against that point to a degree. going against the grain does work, if you know who you're looking for and can send the right signals accordingly it's that okcupid data about how the highly tattoo'd people tended to get the most negative responses, but also very strong responses from other seriously tat'd people fly a flag, signal theory, etc.
  - eloisius 3mo ago
    That only worked in first-gen dating sites where you browsed profiles. I think this strategy was called "spearfishing" where you make your profile as polarizing and authentic as possible, because it would cut out all the people you don't want to meet and appeal strongly to the person you do want to meet. In today's Elo-score face swiping apps, your profile just tanks because all those people you didn't appeal to left-swiped you, and the one person who would have liked your tattoos never sees you. The only strategy for these apps is to 1) be attractive 2) don't be unattractive.
Planktonne 3mo ago
"Everything is awful now", from exactly the sort of person who made it so.
nh23423fefe 3mo ago
every instance of a reference to "end of history" is always repeating a misunderstanding of Fukuyama's argument. end of history doesn't mean nothing will ever happen again
- queenkjuul 3mo ago
  Fukuyama recently admitted his own argument was wrong
  - operatingthetan 3mo ago
    That doesn't even mean it's wrong.
    - queenkjuul 3mo ago
      Well, i am quite certain that it is
      - operatingthetan 3mo ago
        ok
3form 3mo ago
This really does - I don't mean it in a disparaging way - read like a mid-life crisis writing. Having to come to terms with the fact that the "old world" is not the current world anymore, which is too bad, because you like the old one, and you don't quite fit in the new one either. This feeling has existed across generations and most of us have to go through it eventually. The world, however, is not any less real than it has always been and is not collapsing.
- 4ndrewl 3mo ago
  It's more aligned with Baudrillard's concept of Hyperreality, than that I think.
  - operatingthetan 3mo ago
    Yes and that can manifest in a very different kind of personal crisis.
- ludicrousdispla 3mo ago
  >> it’s not like there’s anywhere to go. The real world is strip malls and axe throwing and escape rooms. The author really needs a change of scenery. 'Strip malls and axe throwing' sounds like a minor update to the 'strip malls and TGIFs' of the `90's.
- Havoc 3mo ago
  > mid-life crisis writing Might also be that but his takes have also been…unique That’s also why I think the blog is liked. Sometimes the takes a bad. Sometimes they are novel and good
- red-iron-pine 3mo ago
  > This really does - I don't mean it in a disparaging way - read like a mid-life crisis writing. OP is living in a world of hyperreality of his own making. dude has always been doing software and never been able to break out of that. it's not like he's been bartending though college and then slide into CS/dev work and is struggling with how startups are it's own weird universe. it's all hes ever known and is now convinced that the hinge dates and axe throwing are the weird, not-real thing. homie has been in his weird autism-tech-bubble and never had a reason to get out of it
the_real_cher 3mo ago
I don't really know what to say other than what absolutely amazing article that articulates our new post-industrialism world really well.
torginus 3mo ago
I remember watching this urban exploration video, the guy went into an abandoned Russian nuclear bunker, deep underground. Watching this titanic effort of engineering, made by people who were both highly intelligent and had vast resources at their disposal, yet felt it necessary to build it to have an answer to the unthinkable horrors the future held, all of this reflected in the sturdy but utilitarian design of the concrete complex, rooms filled with all sorts of pumps, air filters, and electronic equipment necessary to sustain human civilization after the bomb fell. As the guy walked from room to room, he noticed that in one of the rooms was a set of old PCs. The power was on. He switched it on, and suddenly the familiar bootup chime of Windows 95 played, and he was looking at a desktop. He sat down, started clicking around, opened Solitaire, started playing. Suddenly all the tension dropped, I forgot where I was. The whole thing felt comfortable, even pedestrian. I had to actively remind myself that the guy was many stories underground in an abandoned bunker, likely patrolled by active military. Computers even at their crudest have a hypnotic ability to bring you into their world, and somehow make you forget about the reality you live in. This is not the only mechanism of society that does this, but certainly one of the most powerful we found in recent history.
- deleted 3mo ago
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- tangenter 3mo ago
  You better find that video for us. Sounds juicy af.
  - lulzury 3mo ago
    I feel like this comment is validating the post's point.
- fragmede 3mo ago
  Not this one but it's got similar vibes. https://youtu.be/ob9YJlGb4oM https://youtu.be/ob9YJlGb4oM
- ButlerianJihad 3mo ago
samueljoe 3mo ago
Is it wrong to feel the truly privileged doom pilled are a true manifestation of irrelevant inconsequential thought processeses, sick loops created by our own Dr. Frankensteins? Isn't PKD meeting Sallinger just pile on?
BloondAndDoom 3mo ago
Is this blog post meaningfully readable for anyone? It just reads like an incoherent rambling.
- deleted 3mo ago
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ozozozd 3mo ago
Oh god, George is getting old. Sounding like an old guy. What does that say about me? I used to find him childish. Jokes aside I also didn’t like him. Until I heard him on that podcast with the Russian-American dude whose name I can’t remember and can’t be bothered to search right now. I was surprised to start find that I would like George, because he said he was religious and I generally dislike people who capitalize god, etc. I think he was one of the coolest hackers of the millennial generation.
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cma 3mo ago
> Maybe the new tattoos are just like being racist or something, but that’s hard to do when your heart isn’t in it and they will eventually find some way to absorb that. I think I'd rather read slop than edgelord.
athrow 3mo ago
Hacker culture isn't dead. It just smells funny.
smitty1e 3mo ago
> And it’s not like there’s anywhere to go. The real world is strip malls and axe throwing and escape rooms. While the ersatz realms of AI regress to the mean, religious traditions chug on, bringing joy to adherents. Find your community of faith.
anal_reactor 3mo ago
[flagged]
- marand23 3mo ago
  You got me curious now, in what ways do you think you are racist? Racists usually don't think they are racists, I would think, but maybe I'm wrong
  - anal_reactor 3mo ago
    I honestly believe that certain cultures are measurably worse than others, and skin colour is unfortunately a great proxy for that. I am strongly against celebrating cultures that provably have more negative influence on wider society than others - and I don't see a problem with cultural erasure if it eventually leads to better life standards for everyone. Racial profiling by the police is unfair, but it's necessary. My views have changed 180° once I moved into a ghetto. Within two years I witnessed three shootings, and had my belongings stolen twice. There's trash everywhere, and kids are revving engines at 2AM and nobody cares. I don't buy the excuse "the problem is poverty and lack of chances" because it just doesn't hold up when you compare people across countries. You cannot tell me that a Moroccan kid growing up in Paris somehow has fewer chances in life than a white kid growing up in Rădoiești-Deal. Besides, I don't understand how poverty explains the inability to bring your trash to the trash can. Being gay is literally illegal in almost all Muslim countries, many of them have death punishment for being gay. I don't see a reason why I'd be morally obliged to respect that as a valid way to construct a society. If they want me dead, I want them dead too, tit for tat. I see countries like Japan or Korea heavily opposing immigration despite demographic crisis. I don't think they're making the wrong decision.
grommz 3mo ago
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deleted 3mo ago
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zackmorris 3mo ago
The wrong people won the internet lottery. I sympathize with the author. I started with HyperCard in the late 1980s when fax machines were an up-and-coming business. Then learned C, C++ and assembly language before I knew what a spreadsheet was. I got educated on a very strange mix of simplicity and complexity that is diametrically opposed to this "modern" world we live in, where web and app development have become so complex that an individual developer effectively can't compete in the market without using AI, while the business logic our software performs is often smaller than what non-programmers used to cobble together for their office workflows without a manual. I keep asking myself what went wrong. How has so little progress happened in the way we write software since the Dot Bomb in 2000? How did languages like Rust rise in prominence, while others like AppleScript devolve into something unrecognizable? The answer is gross, but it's misaligned incentives. Why would Meta make React better, when its very complexity forms a moat that prevents outside competition? Why would Google rewrite Android's spaghetti code, when the last thing it wants is competing smartphones? Why would Apple improve its web browser to run at 1000x current speed and negate the need for archaic native apps written in Swift/Objective-C and lose its gatekeeper status? This vacuum of innovation, this cultural wealth inequality, has become so ingrained into our lives that we can't even see it anymore. It's a just a state of being now, a perpetual scarcity mindset. It limits not just what we imagine, but what we can imagine. Not for formal reasons, but logistical ones. Financial survival trumps mental/physical/spiritual health. Influencers, streaming, the gig economy, even AI paper over this rot at the core of our reality. Instead of fixing underemployment, undertaxed capital gains, money in politics, trade deficits stemming from colonization, a national debt obfuscating public to private wealth transfer, etc etc etc, we tell our young people that they'd be happier alone. That if they just gave up their blue hair and avocado toast and stopped being lazy, they could someday reach the 20th century American Dream. It's all baloney. On the one hand, I'm jealous of young people today - scraping dating sites to actually meet girls would have been the golden ticket when I was young in the late 1900s. But on the other hand, I feel a strange mix of concern and pity for them - technology is a pale imitation of the party plane that my generation spent eons escaping reality to. If I didn't know better, I'd say this year is 1996 (2.0). Now that the Internet Age has ended, AI gives all of us unprecedented access to not just free information - but free motivation. For the first time in human history, we have digital slaves to fill the artificial scarcity component of capitalism. We're so close to being free for the first time, just like we were before the powers that be pulled the plug at the end of the 90s by denying access to capital to the masses. The squares, the sellouts, they don't even know they're a joke, at least not consciously. The rich and powerful talk at us so hard, shamelessly, losing the intellectual debate by refusing to participate in it. The most punk thing we can do is share. Time, money and resources - not content. Pay it forward. Bring someone up with us. Help. Otherwise the wrong people will win the AI lottery too.
numpad0 3mo ago
This reads more like geohot finally hit the point where he can't stand comments more so than it has to do with what is in the text. Idiots and trolls in the audience put real mental toll on streamers - facing and tackling mean comments straight on don't make them mental Hulks. If anything that wears them down and mentally weaken them. But: what exactly is the problem if AI was going to exceed us humans in intelligence? We keep pets around and enjoy watching them move about, despite them being clearly less intelligent than ourselves. We enjoy arts, sometimes conceived by literally clinically low-IQ or insane people. Proof of above-average exceptional intelligence != source of dignity nor justification for your existence as an sentient being. I guess the idea that AI going past meat human is scary, because there is an implication that it could lead to general deprecation and deliberate extinction of meat humans with no concrete proof of their own continuities or the guaranteed ultimate free choice as the carrier of the human civilization for us to make. But IMO, that kind of an moment-of-truth situation is not guaranteed, and there are plenty chances that it leads to situations similar to Data from Star Trek, or Doraemon by Fujiko Fujio, or Yukikaze by Chohei Kambayashi, or Rocky from Hail Mary for that matter - bunch of friendly next-door 400-IQ sentient autonomous superhuman aliens that just happen to be non-traditionally-biological. So why be depressed?
- red-iron-pine 3mo ago
  > This reads more like geohot finally hit the point where he can't stand comments more so than it has to do with what is in the text. Idiots and trolls in the audience put real mental toll on streamers - facing and tackling mean comments straight on don't make them mental Hulks. If anything that wears them down and mentally weaken them. geohot is living in a world where he is reacting to their discussions, instead of harvesting them. of course he burns out. the game streamers just go LOL and the onlyfans types go "oh honey" and blow it off -- and watch their wallet fill with $$$ but george is making this interactive and isn't harvesting $$$, he feels a need to engage. knowledge workers see all criticism as a challenge, part of the "engineer's disease thing" and can't disconnect, and doesn't have the satisfaction of walking out with 300k a year from the stream.
deleted 3mo ago
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skybrian 3mo ago
> you couldn’t find out what time the movies were playing because moviephone just redirected you to their app Uh, movies are definitely not more "real" than YouTube videos and they're just as passive.
red-iron-pine 3mo ago
homeboy lived inside of tech-bro-capitalism since he was 19 and is now realizing it's hollow, but hasn't been forced to live outside of that bubble. some kernels of truth but it feels like he doesn't need AI or tattoos, he needs a therapist
- roryirvine 3mo ago
  Honestly, picking up some shifts at a local coffee shop might help. Or doing some fine arts night classes. Or if he's lucky enough not to need to worry about money for a while, then spend half a year doing Peace Corps or some sort of voluntourism project. Walk the Camino de Santiago or the Appalachian Trail. Spend a week in the second-largest city of every country in Africa, in reverse alphabetical order. Whatever. His current situation isn't making him happy. So try something very different for a while, get some perspective, then reassess.
mathgladiator 3mo ago
Want to be punk in tech? Go full blown MAGA! I am not even kidding.
ofjcihen 3mo ago
This makes me glad that I got into tech later in life after being in the trades. I don’t know how to explain it quite yet but I feel like Geo is experiencing something I’ve seen with a lot of my counterparts who were computer nerds from their childhood into adult life. It’s like they haven’t considered much outside of that realm and can’t figure out how to. Don’t get me wrong, I find my field fascinating and work on it all the time. But it’s still just a field and I can’t apply myself just as well to anything else.
solid_fuel 3mo ago
> I’ve been scraping dating sites and feeding them to ChatGPT, and it’s amazing how few of the profiles still say anything about the person. Yeah, it's common knowledge now that you can't put many identifying details into a dating profile - there are creeps out there doing things like harvesting them and feeding them into ChatGPT.
- fatata123 3mo ago
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erelong 3mo ago
Basically "the Industrial Revolution and its consequences..."
nozzlegear 3mo ago
Fukuyama wasn't wrong, he was just early.

207 points by surprisetalk 3mo ago

> What killed the hacker culture I grew up in was spectacle. That’s so rich from someone known for his public stunts against Sony & co

stavros 3mo ago
What public stunts? He jailbroke a console, it's not like he went on a talk show.
- Havoc 3mo ago
  Google his Sony Court case dis Track and you’ll see
- red-iron-pine 3mo ago
  dude was cracking iphones for the glory and lulz as much as for practical access reasons lots of folks be working on exploits and jailbreaks who, as a rule, STFU 100% OpSec 100% of the time "the real, scary hitmen aren't the ones bragging about it"
  - stavros 3mo ago
    Unlike murder, finding an exploit isn't illegal.
    - red-iron-pine 3mo ago
      tell that to sony, who definitely sued his ass
    - dgellow 3mo ago
      Depending on the jurisdiction it is, reverse engineering has pretty strict restrictions
- dgellow 3mo ago
  If you were following the scene at the time, geohot was absolutely non stop trolling publicly. He was by far the best at pushing big corporations buttons. The obvious example is the Sony distrack, but that’s only the top of the iceberg. He was pretty much the definition of a rockstar in the hacker world, leaking to the mainstream. His persona and following was already well established when he started looking at the ps3. Wild times
eloisius 3mo ago
I think his usage of spectacle here is the "spectate" kind, not the hullabaloo kind. Spectacles are created to be consumed from the sidelines as a spectator, rather than directly participated in. Being involved, not a spectator, is the root of punk ethos. Bad music and outlandish hair was always just the window dressing. Say what you like about geohot's public behavior and his long string of half-finished projects, but he's always been very DIY and I respect that about him.

v9v 3mo ago

Parts of this reminded me of the book "Sadly, Porn".

robocat 3mo ago
[dead]

mmillin 3mo ago

Feels very related to the idea of refinement culture: https://lindynewsletter.beehiiv.com/p/refinement-culture https://lindynewsletter.beehiiv.com/p/refinement-culture While the connectedness of our world allows for great ideas to be spread and shared, there’s a huge reduction in actual variety. I don’t know what the solution is.

delichon 3mo ago
> I don’t know what the solution is. Interstellar diaspora. Interplanetary diaspora isn't far enough apart.
thundergolfer 3mo ago
Not really that related. Refinement culture is concerned with evolving aesthetics and marketing which is partly a response to globalization and the rising middle classes of asia, partly related to digitization, and partly just a normal evolution of style. What George is talking about here is much more related to the ideas of Nick Land, technocapital, Marshall McLuhan, and man's relationship to industrialization. > Isolation is basically impossible because the Internet follows you everywhere. And it’s perfectly uniform, there is no other Internet, just a place with five corporate towns and some Chinese ones that are really hard to visit if you don’t speak Chinese. This is McLuhan's "global village". > I don’t think I’m properly capturing the scope of the machine. First you build the fence to keep the animals out then you build the fence to keep the animals in. It’s a Fullmetal Alchemist homunculus maybe it has already eaten your soul. This is Nick Land.
- acron0 3mo ago
  I think 99% of the commenters in this thread seem totally tone deaf to the article and the phenomenon being attacked by geohot. Granted, he doesn't articulate it well, but as you say, these aren't new concepts and much better introduced by Nick Land, Mark Fisher, Byung-chul Han etc.

delichon 3mo ago

> But the difference is that you didn’t do anything. And in so much as there is a you, it isn’t steering. Now I realize that the non steering you is everywhere. Jesse: I was thinking about that thing you said about the universe. Going where the universe takes you? Right on. It's a cool philosophy. Jane: I was being metaphorical, it's a terrible philosophy. I've gone where the universe takes me my whole life. It's better to make those decisions for yourself. El Camino, 2019

jareklupinski 3mo ago
i think there's a balance, where you know where you want to get to and strive to course-correct towards it over time, but allow your present circumstances to choose which one of the infinite ways is going there today
NetMageSCW 3mo ago
You choose the life you lead. If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.

awakeasleep 3mo ago

overall, too much of this makes sense. The only part I have any objection to is the part about when you're using an AI to make something, you are not steering. I think you only give up the steering on the how, but the "what" and the "why", which were always the more important parts, in my opinion, are still in your hands. There has always been tension on that specific point, and it's what made being a programmer in a company you don't own so painful.

phoghed 3mo ago
Even the “how” you only give up as much as you are willing to.

ozgrakkurt 3mo ago

I have similar feelings but also think this is mostly an effect of more people participating. The people that create slop garbage profiles or cookie-cutter profiles didn't have very quirky profiles before. The probably didn't even participate before. The quirky stuff is still there and maybe there is even more of it but it takes effort to find it instead of being able to go online and everything being novel.

gooddelta 3mo ago

This slop is exactly what ChatGPT spits out when it's leading you down the hole of AI psychosis.

myrmidon 3mo ago
> AI psychosis. No need to be so dramatic, might just be a bit of an early midlife crisis thing. I liked the post, some interesting takes.
operatingthetan 3mo ago
Eh not really. It's more like it starts explaining to the user that they are very special, and they discovered this unique intellectual thing in the AI slop that no one ever has, then starts convincing them it's mystical or similar. Just feeding the user magical narcissism basically.

consumer451 3mo ago

> Oh god people actually go on a hinge date to axe throwing and think it’s the real world. Hinge dates and axe throwing are not my world. I also didn't go to pop band concerts and meat market bars in the olden times. I don't judge the people who did, at least now I don't.

xoac 3mo ago
You are a good consumer, consumer451, because you don't judge other consumers' consumption habits.
- deleted 3mo ago
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gotodengo 3mo ago
While I agree with you, that disagreement with the author (and not in a my side vs. your side talking point kinda way) is one of the things I liked. I don't think anyone other than geohot himself would agree with the full thing, but that's his point. >I’ve been scraping dating sites and feeding them to ChatGPT, and it’s amazing how few of the profiles still say anything about the person. There are no rough edges, it’s basically marketing copy. Reflected back and forth in their heads with this “society” mirror so many times that there’s no identity or coherence left, just a mush of diffuse monochrome light.
- consumer451 3mo ago
  > I don't think anyone other than geohot himself would agree with the full thing, but that's his point. OK, that makes a bunch more sense to me. Thanks for sharing that interpretation.
sarchertech 3mo ago
> Oh god people actually go on a hinge date to axe throwing and think it’s the real world. My experience with dating apps was mostly awful, but then I met my wife on one. Now we’re happily married with 3 kids. Axe throwing is just a business fad like so many before it. This started long before the internet. Pinball arcades, video game arcades, tanning salons, self storage, frozen yogurt. The list goes on and on. Not sure what my point is, I guess it’s mostly this has nothing to do with the internet or with now. If the author were writing this in the 80s he’d be complaining about people hanging out in malls. If it were written in the 50s he’d be complaining about drive-in movies and restaurants, and tract houses. Go back earlier and he’d probably be complaining about electrification. To be fair I think we should be more intentional about our adoption of technology, but nostalgia is a hell of a drug that is best avoided.

inigyou 3mo ago

geohot is lucky to have grown up in proper hacker culture, doing CTFs, poking at hardware. I've only touched the surface of this from the outside. One time I got root on my network switch, but that was about it. And now I feel like I've wasted my life. Geohot made a pretty big difference to the world with his hardware hacking. Separate thought: This new information world can be fought, but it's the war against capital and power, and that cannot be won, only resisted until the side with the capital and power becomes so incompetent and detached from reality that it collapses by itself (this is happening now, slowly; it happened already in the Soviet Union), and then we can shape what comes afterwards. But there probably won't be as much computer technology post-collapse.

iamnothere 3mo ago
The key, as I’ve been saying lately, is to begin building more local networks (meshes, IP over radio, sneakernets) that are totally disconnected from the normal internet. Put up a BBS that your friends can only get to by connecting over radio, or set up a private Reticulum chat with a functional non-Internet access path. Maybe set up a neighborhood wifi captive portal message board on an ESP32, hidden in a solar light. If there are Bad Times ahead, it will be good to have this as a tested option. If not, you get a cozy private space to talk with people you know, outside of the surveillance grid.
- xpct 3mo ago
  I love the idea of this, but I don't think I could convince my friends to use it over mainstream platforms.
- inigyou 3mo ago
  But they're objectively inferior to the real internet and nobody uses them. People only use Meshtastic to say "hello, I'm using Meshtastic!" A cool idea would be to build out an ISP to a small set of hub locations using leased lines or illegally placed fiber something, but that will get expensive. I heard someone have an idea to use a drone to lay illegal fiber across city rooftops.

paxys 3mo ago

> AI is making this all so much worse. When you are prompting you feel like you are steering, but are you really? Would you know if you weren’t? This one hits hard. I feel more and more that AI-assisted creation is really just consumption. And it’s worse because it gives a false sense of creativity. Are we really expressing ourselves and challenging ourselves by pressing a button and generating the same slop as a million other people?

xoac 3mo ago
Wasn't this obvious?
- krapp 3mo ago
  Spend some time on HN reading people's comments about how AI frees them and liberates their minds and lets them be creative in ways that were never possible before and how anyone who thinks otherwise is just a Luddite. You'll realize how not obvious it is to many people. You (collective you, not you personally) are just consuming a product. The LLM is a product. The model is a product. You're reheating spam from the can in the microwave and acting like you're Gordon Ramsey. But you don't know how to cook, all you know how to do is push buttons. And worst of all, you probably think anyone who bothers to learn how to prepare food with their hands is a rube.
  - NetMageSCW 3mo ago
    Or are they right and you’re the one saying if you don’t know how to saddle a horse and rub it down you shouldn’t consider yourself a driver?
    - krapp 3mo ago
      Thank you for demonstrating my point so perfectly.
  - cliglot 3mo ago
    [dead]

ShinyLeftPad 3mo ago

> I’ve been scraping dating sites and feeding them to ChatGPT Why...

tangenter 3mo ago
Because it’s a numbers game and nothing wrong with playing to win.
- ShinyLeftPad 3mo ago
  Should we also talk to dates using chatgpt? is a numbers game, play to win!
- red-iron-pine 3mo ago
  lets abstract the human interaction process even futher and homeboy is a rich tech bro, he doesn't have to play the numbers game

hptnrr 3mo ago

ChatGPT does not know more than you. The fallacy is always that you compare AI to a human without literature references and a database. This is most egregious in chess engines that literally have endgame databases for example. Would Carlsen have won game six against Nepo if Nepo had had a tablebase? No, it was a draw many times. Hacker culture has slowly been subverted since the mediocre developers of open source projects sold out to corporations and became managers of the A developers. Literally like pg wrote: C students manage the A students. Except that in open source this was a novelty and the A students were too timid or conflict averse to fork.

everdrive 3mo ago
>ChatGPT does not know more than you. Maybe in the area of your expertise, but ChatGPT probably knows most of the Habsburg dynasty. (just as one example) The breadth of knowledge, even when the depth is quirky and limited, is genuinely a big deal.
ben_w 3mo ago
> ChatGPT does not know more than you. The fallacy is always that you compare AI to a human without literature references and a database. If the human needs a literature references and a database to answer a question, can they be said to "know" the answer? ChatGPT doesn't have an endgame database for chess. Despite having "read" all the literature about chess, it will hallucinate the board state if you try to play chess with it directly. But it "knows" how to write a chess engine that would beat me… and more than that, one which would beat a competent player. It is a very weird and spiky form of intelligence, but it's also definitely not just a database.
- 1Bas-12g 3mo ago
  If Stockfish uses a table base to play endgames, does it play chess? If a CPU needs RAM and disk access to give answers, does it "know" the material?
  - ben_w 3mo ago
    > If Stockfish uses a table base to play endgames, does it play chess? It would be very impressive to watch this, but irrelevant: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=%22table+base%22&t=osx&ia=images&iax=images https://duckduckgo.com/?q=%22table+base%22&t=osx&ia=images&i... > If a CPU needs RAM and disk access to give answers, does it "know" the material? If you need to have a prefrontal cortex (RAM) and hippocampus (disk access), same question. (The answer is "yes, obviously that's fine, why would you even ask").

everdrive 3mo ago

I really like this style of writing in short bursts, and I appreciate the author's tone and concerns. I do wonder if the author is very young. As much as I enjoyed his small essay, a few things stuck right out at me: >I tried having a flip phone once (2014), but you couldn’t find out what time the movies were playing because moviephone just redirected you to their app. This has been a solved problem for a long time: you look up the movie times and such prior to departing for the movies. No smartphone needed. >And it’s not like there’s anywhere to go. The real world is strip malls and axe throwing and escape rooms. Oh god people actually go on a hinge date to axe throwing and think it’s the real world. You can escape, but you'll never hear about it by either checking online, or by listening to very-online people. Go on a hike. It doesn't even have to be a good one. Just go do it. Maybe say hi to some people you meet while you're there. You probably won't develop a deep friendship with them, but you will have a real, face-to-face human interaction. Living away from the internet can now only be done intentionally. It can be done, though, but it's not the automatic choice. It's not even difficult ... it's just "manual." You must always think about what you want to do and how you want to do it. It's a skill that will come back to you. Or, if the author never learned it, a skill he still has a chance to learn. What we've lost is getting to feel like you're connected to a common culture. This is a big, big loss, but it is not everything. The tools you need to escape are all around you. Power off your devices. Get some books at your local library. Try leaving your devices off all weekend, even when you get anxious, and bored, and your brain cries out for the easy, automatic stimulation it's become so accustomed to. Lay in bed and stare at the ceiling until your brain creates interesting thoughts out of your boredom. It's possible.

matltc 3mo ago
Well idk if the author is actually geohot but if it is then look him up. Famous hacker from cmu ppp, I think he was first to jailbreak iPhone 4
- dgellow 3mo ago
  Yes it’s geohot’s blog. He’s also active on HN from time to time
- 3mo ago

finnthehuman 3mo ago

The bit about stream viewers is interesting. What is the typical viewer experience? I assumed watching streams is similar to watching vs participating in sports. I played a few as a teen, got quite good at one. As much as I like watching highly talented people apply their skill it does nothing to scratch the participatory itch.

Havoc 3mo ago
>What is the typical viewer experience? Think it depends a lot on the type of stream. The vibes are all over the place. Say gaming stream, live walking stream vs a talking stream vs a podcast stream. Size of the stream also matters. If you're regularly in the comments of a 50 person stream commentators recognise each other and there is interaction not entirely unlike old school forums that have regulars. In a 1000+ stream nope. So I don't think there is such a thing as a typical experience. The main one I follow is a talking stream of someone I've been following for years. So has a bit of old friend vibe in that you know a lot about this person & it's a comforting presence. But of course its all parasocial and one direction only (mostly) so old friend parallel is kinda fake.

firasd 3mo ago

This lament about the superficiality of publicly oriented endeavors is interesting cause this guy's life is inseparable from meta commentary. "George Francis Hotz (born October 2, 1989), known online by geohot, is an American security hacker, entrepreneur,[1] and software engineer. He is known for developing iOS jailbreaks,[2][3] reverse engineering the PlayStation 3, and for the subsequent lawsuit brought against him by Sony. From September 2015 until November 2025, he worked on his vehicle automation machine learning company comma.ai.[4] Since November 2022, Hotz has been working on tinygrad, a deep learning framework." From the early legal controversy to today, if there's one thing we can expect from geohot, it's that he's gonna think he's god's gift to programming and everyone whose work he disagrees with are losers. But the bluster often doesn't result in much eg his plan to 'fix twitter search' didn't amount to anything (and today in June 2026 twitter search is way less reliable than it was pre-Elon/Hotz/etc in Oct 2022-- but I guess we can't say it's Hotz's fault cause like I said he did approximately nothing) Punk is actually a good metaphor because the the angst in the music became the blockbuster 'brand' of the music. Being jaded and cynical doesn't make you inherently more interesting it just leaves you--'here', wherever this post is. The programmer equivalent of sporting a studded leather jacket and green mohawk

tangenter 3mo ago
[flagged]
- khalic 3mo ago
  lol, are you the author by any chance?
  - myrmidon 3mo ago
    Unlikely. This is him, at least according to that account: https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=georgehotz https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=georgehotz
    - khalic 3mo ago

mellosouls 3mo ago

For anybody misled by the title and still a bit confused by the article he's not referring to music. This is clever-clogs George Hotz of hacking, comma.ai and tinygrad etc fame. He used (?) to live stream hacker stuff like long running coding sessions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Hotz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Hotz Unofficial video archive: https://youtube.com/@geohotarchive/videos https://youtube.com/@geohotarchive/videos

NetMageSCW 3mo ago
From the title, I thought it was video. From the post, I thought it was gaming.

rmunn 3mo ago

From the article: "... there is no other Internet, just a place with five corporate towns and some Chinese ones that are really hard to visit if you don’t speak Chinese." Yeah, that's only true if you don't hang out in the old-style Internet. I spend most of my time on blogs, reading and replying to discussions on wide-ranging topics, talking to interesting people who know a lot more than I do about many subjects (in fact, most subjects that aren't computer programming) The discussion isn't on Disqus, it's not monetized, it's just... people talking to each other. And it's an active, fun community. They're out there. Just... choose to disengage with the boring communities. I haven't had a Facebook account in years; I only got one because at the time there was a social group I belonged to that was using Facebook as their primary communication tool, and when I moved to another city I deleted my Facebook account. I never signed up for Twitter. Didn't want an account when it started, didn't want one five years ago, don't want one now. It's possible to disengage from the artificial, and find real communication with real people. The first step is to just... stop logging onto Facebook. Just walk away.

justjash 3mo ago
I miss all the old forums that have died out. Still some gems out there, but not nearly as active anymore as far as my hobbies and interest go.
- mingus88 3mo ago
  Ironically, when people moved their communities to Reddit and discord they only helped to enable the AI theft of this culture Forums were easy to search. The threads were mostly chronological and easy to stay in touch with. These corporate platforms are designed to promote reposting. Always “new” content and impossible to find anything else. keep the user reloading that feed at all costs. And behind the scenes the corporations are mining your activity I’m somewhat optimistic that as future generations of LLMs keep scanning this new LLM driven social media landscape, the models will collapse and the content will just suck more and more. And people with interesting takes and novel ways of expressing them leave the corporate platforms, and we return to the humble days of user owned platforms without all the bots After all, it’s easier than ever to build a platform now that we have LLMs to do all the chore work

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khalic 3mo ago

What an unpleasant read

NoGravitas 3mo ago
It's an unpleasant world. Hard to write about pleasantly.
- Planktonne 3mo ago
  I don't think you're ascribing enough agency to the writer here.
codemog 3mo ago
Reads like a man who put off searching for a real relationship for too long, but also didn’t develop that part of himself to maintain one. Then a bunch of existentialism blaming anything but himself. Could be compounded by his location, for example, it’s hard to find a wife in Miami ;) The loneliness could take him to dark places. I’ve been there. I hope he finds someone.
- brcmthrowaway 3mo ago
  He had a girlfriend in livestream and was also on SeekingArrangement. He's rich from tech so what happened?
  - bena 3mo ago
    He was looking for a sugar baby?
- inigyou 3mo ago
  Are romantic relationships really the only thing that people find meaning in in later life? If so, I'm fucked.

jacknews 3mo ago

We've got used to 'reasonable' society and politics in the last few centuries, but check out politics in developing nations or dictatorships, or woke, or Trump or places like pageantry. All fake news and gossip and performance, and AI just makes this potentially much much worse. It already has a name in academia I think, post-truth, or post-reality or whatever, I think it all started with the French post-modernism thing, then critical theory, etc. But I'm not sure it's a post- 'advance' at all, but more like a rejection of the enlightenment and a return to the tribal village.

inigyou 3mo ago
post- means after, not better
- jacknews 3mo ago
  By 'advance' I meant 'a further exploration', moving on to something new, not necessarily better. But it seems like we're just going back to a previous time.

skizm 3mo ago

The only thing I will now remember this guy for is when he volunteered to work for Twitter/X after Elon took over. He failed to get twitter code building locally for about 4 weeks when attempting to change some placeholder text in the twitter search bar. He ultimately couldn't figure it out and then immediately quit lol. He even ran a poll on his twitter asking if he should quit, most people voted "NO" then he quit anyway.

the_real_cher 3mo ago
To be fair I think he's more of a hardware guy.
aftbit 3mo ago
I'll never forget Cydia or the PS3 hacks lol.
- consumer451 3mo ago
  Same here. While I diverge from his opinion trees on many things these days, dude is/was an absolute rockstar to me.
yellow_lead 3mo ago
Guy was also tryna hire other interns as an intern himself, lol
- mingus88 3mo ago
  That’s called a “referral”
rustybolt 3mo ago
If you ever saw this guy program you know he's very competent so IMHO that reflects badly on twitter, tbh.
- skizm 3mo ago
  Totally fair! I think it is more of a reminder that making impact at large companies can be hard even for competent people.

dwroberts 3mo ago

When I read stuff like this, I think the people involved need to go outside and touch grass. I don’t mean that in a mean or reductive way. But something about this kind of assumption that things will get more elaborate and more abstract forever (when he’s talking about the future war for your inner reality) as if there are infinite resources, just strikes me as disconnected from physical reality in a way that feels particularly weird

paradox460 3mo ago
There's something strong to be said about it, and not in a mean way When I was laid off a couple months ago, the first thing I did was go out and mow my lawn. One hour of simple, clean labor, with clear progress, goals, and solitude. It helped me stay out of a bad mental frame, and when I finished I went inside and sent out a few hundred applications Over the next several weeks, I spent a lot of time that wasn't spent on finding a new job working on my yard. Fixing sprinklers, cleaning up the edges of the grass, turning, peating, and mulching garden beds, and more While this job search period took longer than any of my past ones, and ostensibly should have been more stressful, it wasn't. Is that because I spent most of the downtime working outdoors? Probably, who knows? It was certainly a better use of my time than sitting indoors moping
- dwroberts 3mo ago
  Although I’ve not been laid off (sorry to hear that), had a similar experience tending to my garden recently. Working to keep some fussy plants alive in my garden has been surprisingly therapeutic and put a lot of other stuff in perspective
  - paradox460 3mo ago
    While the layoff was inconvenient, yes, it's put me in a better place at a better company. I was stagnant at my old one and starting to hate my work I used to laugh at the king of the hill joke "Why would anyone do drugs when you could mow the lawn" but now I understand it completely
- 3mo ago

matt_daemon 3mo ago

Poor George

embedding-shape 3mo ago

This post feels like how my own notes are done before they're polished into a proper "article/blog post" or whatever, and I genuinely appreciate what seems like a stream of consciousness from the author made public (not sure I'd dare to), even though I don't personally agree with it all. > The new war demands your inner reality. The new war will be weird in all sorts of new ways we can’t even imagine yet. I've been orienting myself towards this already being true as well, and think we still haven't even started to see this taken to its (logical) extreme. If nothing else, it'll at least be interesting to see all the effects and methods around this, and all the cool mind reading toys.

terminalbraid 3mo ago

I appreciate the commentary, but there's some irony of this being hosted on a github.io space.

cliglot 3mo ago

> I’ve been scraping dating sites and feeding them to ChatGPT, and it’s amazing how few of the profiles still say anything about the person. I’ve long described dating apps as “distilling an entire person into a few curated photos and a snippet of text”. In all dating app profile advice I’ve ever seen, creativity, personality, and anything against the grain is highly discouraged. No wonder they barely work.

ambicapter 3mo ago
So he fed millions of profiles into a summarization machine and was surprised to find no sharp edges? Crazy work.
red-iron-pine 3mo ago
i'd argue against that point to a degree. going against the grain does work, if you know who you're looking for and can send the right signals accordingly it's that okcupid data about how the highly tattoo'd people tended to get the most negative responses, but also very strong responses from other seriously tat'd people fly a flag, signal theory, etc.
- eloisius 3mo ago
  That only worked in first-gen dating sites where you browsed profiles. I think this strategy was called "spearfishing" where you make your profile as polarizing and authentic as possible, because it would cut out all the people you don't want to meet and appeal strongly to the person you do want to meet. In today's Elo-score face swiping apps, your profile just tanks because all those people you didn't appeal to left-swiped you, and the one person who would have liked your tattoos never sees you. The only strategy for these apps is to 1) be attractive 2) don't be unattractive.

Planktonne 3mo ago

"Everything is awful now", from exactly the sort of person who made it so.

nh23423fefe 3mo ago

every instance of a reference to "end of history" is always repeating a misunderstanding of Fukuyama's argument. end of history doesn't mean nothing will ever happen again

queenkjuul 3mo ago
Fukuyama recently admitted his own argument was wrong
- operatingthetan 3mo ago
  That doesn't even mean it's wrong.
  - queenkjuul 3mo ago
    Well, i am quite certain that it is
    - operatingthetan 3mo ago
      ok

3form 3mo ago

This really does - I don't mean it in a disparaging way - read like a mid-life crisis writing. Having to come to terms with the fact that the "old world" is not the current world anymore, which is too bad, because you like the old one, and you don't quite fit in the new one either. This feeling has existed across generations and most of us have to go through it eventually. The world, however, is not any less real than it has always been and is not collapsing.

4ndrewl 3mo ago
It's more aligned with Baudrillard's concept of Hyperreality, than that I think.
- operatingthetan 3mo ago
  Yes and that can manifest in a very different kind of personal crisis.
ludicrousdispla 3mo ago
>> it’s not like there’s anywhere to go. The real world is strip malls and axe throwing and escape rooms. The author really needs a change of scenery. 'Strip malls and axe throwing' sounds like a minor update to the 'strip malls and TGIFs' of the `90's.
Havoc 3mo ago
> mid-life crisis writing Might also be that but his takes have also been…unique That’s also why I think the blog is liked. Sometimes the takes a bad. Sometimes they are novel and good
red-iron-pine 3mo ago
> This really does - I don't mean it in a disparaging way - read like a mid-life crisis writing. OP is living in a world of hyperreality of his own making. dude has always been doing software and never been able to break out of that. it's not like he's been bartending though college and then slide into CS/dev work and is struggling with how startups are it's own weird universe. it's all hes ever known and is now convinced that the hinge dates and axe throwing are the weird, not-real thing. homie has been in his weird autism-tech-bubble and never had a reason to get out of it

the_real_cher 3mo ago

I don't really know what to say other than what absolutely amazing article that articulates our new post-industrialism world really well.

torginus 3mo ago

I remember watching this urban exploration video, the guy went into an abandoned Russian nuclear bunker, deep underground. Watching this titanic effort of engineering, made by people who were both highly intelligent and had vast resources at their disposal, yet felt it necessary to build it to have an answer to the unthinkable horrors the future held, all of this reflected in the sturdy but utilitarian design of the concrete complex, rooms filled with all sorts of pumps, air filters, and electronic equipment necessary to sustain human civilization after the bomb fell. As the guy walked from room to room, he noticed that in one of the rooms was a set of old PCs. The power was on. He switched it on, and suddenly the familiar bootup chime of Windows 95 played, and he was looking at a desktop. He sat down, started clicking around, opened Solitaire, started playing. Suddenly all the tension dropped, I forgot where I was. The whole thing felt comfortable, even pedestrian. I had to actively remind myself that the guy was many stories underground in an abandoned bunker, likely patrolled by active military. Computers even at their crudest have a hypnotic ability to bring you into their world, and somehow make you forget about the reality you live in. This is not the only mechanism of society that does this, but certainly one of the most powerful we found in recent history.

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tangenter 3mo ago
You better find that video for us. Sounds juicy af.
- lulzury 3mo ago
  I feel like this comment is validating the post's point.
fragmede 3mo ago
Not this one but it's got similar vibes. https://youtu.be/ob9YJlGb4oM https://youtu.be/ob9YJlGb4oM
ButlerianJihad 3mo ago

samueljoe 3mo ago

Is it wrong to feel the truly privileged doom pilled are a true manifestation of irrelevant inconsequential thought processeses, sick loops created by our own Dr. Frankensteins? Isn't PKD meeting Sallinger just pile on?

BloondAndDoom 3mo ago

Is this blog post meaningfully readable for anyone? It just reads like an incoherent rambling.

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ozozozd 3mo ago

Oh god, George is getting old. Sounding like an old guy. What does that say about me? I used to find him childish. Jokes aside I also didn’t like him. Until I heard him on that podcast with the Russian-American dude whose name I can’t remember and can’t be bothered to search right now. I was surprised to start find that I would like George, because he said he was religious and I generally dislike people who capitalize god, etc. I think he was one of the coolest hackers of the millennial generation.

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cma 3mo ago

> Maybe the new tattoos are just like being racist or something, but that’s hard to do when your heart isn’t in it and they will eventually find some way to absorb that. I think I'd rather read slop than edgelord.

athrow 3mo ago

Hacker culture isn't dead. It just smells funny.

smitty1e 3mo ago

> And it’s not like there’s anywhere to go. The real world is strip malls and axe throwing and escape rooms. While the ersatz realms of AI regress to the mean, religious traditions chug on, bringing joy to adherents. Find your community of faith.

anal_reactor 3mo ago

[flagged]

marand23 3mo ago
You got me curious now, in what ways do you think you are racist? Racists usually don't think they are racists, I would think, but maybe I'm wrong
- anal_reactor 3mo ago
  I honestly believe that certain cultures are measurably worse than others, and skin colour is unfortunately a great proxy for that. I am strongly against celebrating cultures that provably have more negative influence on wider society than others - and I don't see a problem with cultural erasure if it eventually leads to better life standards for everyone. Racial profiling by the police is unfair, but it's necessary. My views have changed 180° once I moved into a ghetto. Within two years I witnessed three shootings, and had my belongings stolen twice. There's trash everywhere, and kids are revving engines at 2AM and nobody cares. I don't buy the excuse "the problem is poverty and lack of chances" because it just doesn't hold up when you compare people across countries. You cannot tell me that a Moroccan kid growing up in Paris somehow has fewer chances in life than a white kid growing up in Rădoiești-Deal. Besides, I don't understand how poverty explains the inability to bring your trash to the trash can. Being gay is literally illegal in almost all Muslim countries, many of them have death punishment for being gay. I don't see a reason why I'd be morally obliged to respect that as a valid way to construct a society. If they want me dead, I want them dead too, tit for tat. I see countries like Japan or Korea heavily opposing immigration despite demographic crisis. I don't think they're making the wrong decision.

grommz 3mo ago

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zackmorris 3mo ago

The wrong people won the internet lottery. I sympathize with the author. I started with HyperCard in the late 1980s when fax machines were an up-and-coming business. Then learned C, C++ and assembly language before I knew what a spreadsheet was. I got educated on a very strange mix of simplicity and complexity that is diametrically opposed to this "modern" world we live in, where web and app development have become so complex that an individual developer effectively can't compete in the market without using AI, while the business logic our software performs is often smaller than what non-programmers used to cobble together for their office workflows without a manual. I keep asking myself what went wrong. How has so little progress happened in the way we write software since the Dot Bomb in 2000? How did languages like Rust rise in prominence, while others like AppleScript devolve into something unrecognizable? The answer is gross, but it's misaligned incentives. Why would Meta make React better, when its very complexity forms a moat that prevents outside competition? Why would Google rewrite Android's spaghetti code, when the last thing it wants is competing smartphones? Why would Apple improve its web browser to run at 1000x current speed and negate the need for archaic native apps written in Swift/Objective-C and lose its gatekeeper status? This vacuum of innovation, this cultural wealth inequality, has become so ingrained into our lives that we can't even see it anymore. It's a just a state of being now, a perpetual scarcity mindset. It limits not just what we imagine, but what we can imagine. Not for formal reasons, but logistical ones. Financial survival trumps mental/physical/spiritual health. Influencers, streaming, the gig economy, even AI paper over this rot at the core of our reality. Instead of fixing underemployment, undertaxed capital gains, money in politics, trade deficits stemming from colonization, a national debt obfuscating public to private wealth transfer, etc etc etc, we tell our young people that they'd be happier alone. That if they just gave up their blue hair and avocado toast and stopped being lazy, they could someday reach the 20th century American Dream. It's all baloney. On the one hand, I'm jealous of young people today - scraping dating sites to actually meet girls would have been the golden ticket when I was young in the late 1900s. But on the other hand, I feel a strange mix of concern and pity for them - technology is a pale imitation of the party plane that my generation spent eons escaping reality to. If I didn't know better, I'd say this year is 1996 (2.0). Now that the Internet Age has ended, AI gives all of us unprecedented access to not just free information - but free motivation. For the first time in human history, we have digital slaves to fill the artificial scarcity component of capitalism. We're so close to being free for the first time, just like we were before the powers that be pulled the plug at the end of the 90s by denying access to capital to the masses. The squares, the sellouts, they don't even know they're a joke, at least not consciously. The rich and powerful talk at us so hard, shamelessly, losing the intellectual debate by refusing to participate in it. The most punk thing we can do is share. Time, money and resources - not content. Pay it forward. Bring someone up with us. Help. Otherwise the wrong people will win the AI lottery too.

numpad0 3mo ago

This reads more like geohot finally hit the point where he can't stand comments more so than it has to do with what is in the text. Idiots and trolls in the audience put real mental toll on streamers - facing and tackling mean comments straight on don't make them mental Hulks. If anything that wears them down and mentally weaken them. But: what exactly is the problem if AI was going to exceed us humans in intelligence? We keep pets around and enjoy watching them move about, despite them being clearly less intelligent than ourselves. We enjoy arts, sometimes conceived by literally clinically low-IQ or insane people. Proof of above-average exceptional intelligence != source of dignity nor justification for your existence as an sentient being. I guess the idea that AI going past meat human is scary, because there is an implication that it could lead to general deprecation and deliberate extinction of meat humans with no concrete proof of their own continuities or the guaranteed ultimate free choice as the carrier of the human civilization for us to make. But IMO, that kind of an moment-of-truth situation is not guaranteed, and there are plenty chances that it leads to situations similar to Data from Star Trek, or Doraemon by Fujiko Fujio, or Yukikaze by Chohei Kambayashi, or Rocky from Hail Mary for that matter - bunch of friendly next-door 400-IQ sentient autonomous superhuman aliens that just happen to be non-traditionally-biological. So why be depressed?

red-iron-pine 3mo ago
> This reads more like geohot finally hit the point where he can't stand comments more so than it has to do with what is in the text. Idiots and trolls in the audience put real mental toll on streamers - facing and tackling mean comments straight on don't make them mental Hulks. If anything that wears them down and mentally weaken them. geohot is living in a world where he is reacting to their discussions, instead of harvesting them. of course he burns out. the game streamers just go LOL and the onlyfans types go "oh honey" and blow it off -- and watch their wallet fill with $$$ but george is making this interactive and isn't harvesting $$$, he feels a need to engage. knowledge workers see all criticism as a challenge, part of the "engineer's disease thing" and can't disconnect, and doesn't have the satisfaction of walking out with 300k a year from the stream.

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skybrian 3mo ago

> you couldn’t find out what time the movies were playing because moviephone just redirected you to their app Uh, movies are definitely not more "real" than YouTube videos and they're just as passive.

red-iron-pine 3mo ago

homeboy lived inside of tech-bro-capitalism since he was 19 and is now realizing it's hollow, but hasn't been forced to live outside of that bubble. some kernels of truth but it feels like he doesn't need AI or tattoos, he needs a therapist

roryirvine 3mo ago
Honestly, picking up some shifts at a local coffee shop might help. Or doing some fine arts night classes. Or if he's lucky enough not to need to worry about money for a while, then spend half a year doing Peace Corps or some sort of voluntourism project. Walk the Camino de Santiago or the Appalachian Trail. Spend a week in the second-largest city of every country in Africa, in reverse alphabetical order. Whatever. His current situation isn't making him happy. So try something very different for a while, get some perspective, then reassess.

mathgladiator 3mo ago

Want to be punk in tech? Go full blown MAGA! I am not even kidding.

ofjcihen 3mo ago

This makes me glad that I got into tech later in life after being in the trades. I don’t know how to explain it quite yet but I feel like Geo is experiencing something I’ve seen with a lot of my counterparts who were computer nerds from their childhood into adult life. It’s like they haven’t considered much outside of that realm and can’t figure out how to. Don’t get me wrong, I find my field fascinating and work on it all the time. But it’s still just a field and I can’t apply myself just as well to anything else.

solid_fuel 3mo ago

> I’ve been scraping dating sites and feeding them to ChatGPT, and it’s amazing how few of the profiles still say anything about the person. Yeah, it's common knowledge now that you can't put many identifying details into a dating profile - there are creeps out there doing things like harvesting them and feeding them into ChatGPT.

fatata123 3mo ago
[dead]

erelong 3mo ago

Basically "the Industrial Revolution and its consequences..."

nozzlegear 3mo ago

Fukuyama wasn't wrong, he was just early.