5 ms·
Do the anti-DST people understand what they're advocating for? Have a look at the sunset/sunrise graph for northern parts of the US https://www.timeanddate.com
by tristanj 4mo ago
Do the anti-DST people understand what they're advocating for?
Have a look at the sunset/sunrise graph for northern parts of the US https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/usa/seattle https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/usa/seattle
In Seattle, without DST, sunrise happens at 4:11am. Because of DST, it's pushed back an hour later to a more reasonable 5:11am.
I am not awake at 4am, I have no use for sunlight at 4am, and I don't want the sun appearing that early. That hour of early sunlight is wasted for me. Plus with DST, the sun sets an hour later, at 9:11pm, a time I am actually awake, and I can actually go outside and use the extra sun.
And, with permanent DST (which is what many people are advocating for), then in winter sunrise is at 9am in Seattle, which is far too late. I do not want to drive to work in the dark, before sunrise. So I want standard time in winter, pushing sunrise an hour earlier to a more reasonable 8am.
In both situations (summer and winter), modifying the time via DST benefits me and gives me better use of sunlight.
- snowe2010 4mo agoYeah, it’s insane. Along with that, any permanent gains in the morning will be lost as soon as it becomes normal. Businesses will just open that much earlier. And this study assumed bedtimes of 10pm, which is not the average anywhere on the planet from what I remember the last time I looked into this. The average is like past midnight.
- wpm 4mo agoMore tyranny inflicted upon the rest of us by morning people
- devilbunny 4mo ago> The average is like past midnight Jesus, for what age group? I'm an outlier because I have to be at work at 6:30 AM daily (so I get up around 5:15), so staying up past 10 PM is a rarity and I see midnight maybe two or three times a year. I don't think I've slept past 8 AM in the past decade, even on vacation. But I haven't even frequently stayed up past midnight since my mid-twenties, and even then didn't do so every night. I'd have been too sleep-deprived.
- kortilla 4mo agoThis just seems like a backwards justification. There is nothing wrong with a 9am sunrise or a 4:11am sunrise. People in Anchorage deal with both just fine. > I am not awake at 4am, I have no use for sunlight at 4am Most people aren’t awake at 5am either. Your use for the sun when there is an excess of it that goes well past your bedtime if you get up at 5am is irrelevant.
- suddenlybananas 4mo ago4am sunrise seems ludicrously early to me, but then again, even a 5am sunrise is awfully early.
- reedf1 4mo agoEver lived at high latitude? It's normal.
- suddenlybananas 4mo agoI live at a higher latitude than Seattle and the earliest sunrise is 5:45 or so.
- tristanj 4mo agoMy work starts at 9am, therefore I wake up around 7am. My work start time does not adjust based on the seasons. Any sun before 7am is wasted for me. Under DST, at summer solstice, the sun rises around 5am, giving me 2 hours of wasted sunlight. Without DST, at summer solstice, the sun rises around 4am, giving me 3 hours of wasted sunlight. I enjoy having additional hours of sunlight when I am awake, so for me I actually prefer having DST vs without it. Similarly, in the wintertime, under permanent DST, sunrise is around 9am, and I don't want to drive to work in the dark.
- zokier 4mo agoYou can still wake up earlier and enjoy your sunrise even if your working hours are fixed.
- AngryData 4mo agoWhy should the clock be set to those arbitrary points? If you want sun in the morning, wake up later, it you want sun in the evening, wake up earlier. If your issue is when work is scheduled, well businesses set their own hours, not the government.
- user43928 4mo agoWorking hours will not change. I will fight tooth and nail against attempts to take one hour of daylight from me in the evenings for half of the year.
- jonplackett 4mo agoBusinesses don’t care how much sun you get
- AngryData 4mo ago
- reedf1 4mo agoHol up, don't fix time, there's a few guys in Seattle without curtains. Sorry everyone.
- pseudalopex 4mo agoCurtains would make the sun set later in summer and rise earlier in winter?
- deleted 4mo ago[deleted]
- zokier 4mo agoYou realize that you can change your own sleep patterns seasonally if you want to? Heck, you could do that even gradually instead of those abrupt 1 hour changes. That is your choice, we don't need to fiddle with clocks for the whole society for that.
- tchalla 4mo agoYou can have your own household clock.
- ekidd 4mo agoYeah, as someone who lives in Vermont, you could talk me into permanent DST. That would move the winter sunset from, say, 4:21pm to 5:21pm, which would mean I'd get enough twilight for a short walk after work. And Maine is even further east and north in the same time zone, so they have an even earlier sunset. On the other hand, Vermont's standard time sunrise around 7:20 is reasonable enough. Parts of Vermont have traditionally coped with this by having an 8-4 workday instead of 9-5. But the reality is that Vermont gets only about an hour of daylight outside working hours, depending on local customs. People have extremely strong preferences about how that hour gets split up.
- jsdalton 4mo agoPermanent DST is just a synonym for "let's all agree to wake up an hour earlier." The same change could be affected by e.g. schools and businesses agreeing to open at 8am instead of 9am. (Of course that would be wildly unpopular so permanent DST is just way to trick people into swallowing the pill.) But would behavior change in the long run? Countries like Spain where solar noon differs wildly from clock noon just end up aligning their rituals accordingly (e.g. eating dinner at 9pm).
- ekidd 4mo ago> The same change could be affected by e.g. schools and businesses agreeing to open at 8am instead of 9am. School starts at 8am everywhere that I know of in northern New England and always has? Does school start at 9am where you live? And as noted, an 8am start to the working day is long established in certain parts of Vermont and New Hampshire. It has not been "widely unpopular." It's nice to get a few minutes of sunlight and twilight after work in winter.
- gonzalohm 4mo agoPeople may adjust their eating times or leisure activities, but work is 9 to 5. It's amazing to have almost 5 hours of sunlight after work
- gspetr 4mo ago> Do the anti-DST people understand what they're advocating for? They do, which is why only 45 countries observe DST. 25 observe it partially. And the rest, roughly ~125 countries do not. Historically, ~140 countries did. To put this into perspective, only about 1.2B people out of 8.3B observe it today. Which puts you into a very small <15% minority.
- tristanj 4mo agoAppealing to population is a stupid argument. DST as a policy is designed for places at higher latitudes, and the the majority of the planet do not live at higher latitudes. DST exists to maintain a more consistent time of sunrise across seasons. DST is moronic in any part of the world close to the equator. There is not enough seasonal adjustment in the time of sunrise to justify adjusting the clocks. And in places of the world such as the middle east, they have an active policy of avoiding the sun and a policy of DST (which maximizes sunlight while awake) is antithetical to how society functions.
- gspetr 4mo ago[dead]