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I've always felt that Mark Zuckerberg got lucky with Facebook and that he has no real lasting talent as a technologist or visionary. He seems to attempt to chas

by etothet 3mo ago

I've always felt that Mark Zuckerberg got lucky with Facebook and that he has no real lasting talent as a technologist or visionary. He seems to attempt to chase the latest "it" thing and has very few original ideas that actual stick long-term. He's quite the charlatan.

glimshe 3mo ago
I've never seen him saying anything particularly smart or insightful. My impression is that he has moderately above average intelligence and entrepreneurship. If he wasn't at the right place at the right time, he would be yet another founder of a random startup.
- nosioptar 3mo ago
  I've never seen him say or do anything particularly human. If I believed in such things, I'd think he was some kind of souless drone sent here by aliens/demons/etc to destroy humanity.
- tmule 3mo ago
  Your impression about his intelligence is way off. Mark was part of the study for mathematically precocious youth, which has a math cutoff at the 1/10K rarity. He also has ambition at the same level. What’s probably missing, of late, is good taste and judgment.
  - glimshe 3mo ago
    It is an impression, as you said. If his intellect is so vast (vs just scoring well on the math skill tests), we should have seen some sort of evidence in the things he writes or says. He was called a programming prodigy but we've seen other actual programming prodigies delivering much more impressive results (Bellard, Frankel, Carmack etc).
    - tmule 3mo ago
      I don’t know what definition of intelligence you’re using, but scoring extremely well on math tests qualifying him for that study is fully aligned with the psychometric POV.
  - eikeq1 3mo ago
    This has no bearing on anything. Did Steve jobs have any of that? No. But he shits all over any tech ceo in history and it’ll probably stay that way.
    - tmule 3mo ago
      Huh? I was addressing a specific claim - not even sure what you’re trying to refute.
drivebyhooting 3mo ago
That becomes more clear by the day. Zuck has no insight. His sole ambition is to be rich and taken seriously.
IshKebab 3mo ago
I dunno he made a few very wise purchases (Instagram, WhatsApp). But yeah he hasn't had a single first party hit apart from Facebook, and the Metaverse is 100% emperor's new clothes. Even worse than Alexa's "people will buy things through a janky voice interface right"?
chrisss395 3mo ago
Thought the same thing even before I saw your comment!
sjsdaiuasgdia 3mo ago
This is basically the case with most of the tech billionaires. They have one, maybe two real successes and it's mostly inertia after that.
alberth 3mo ago
While I know criticizing Meta is popular, I'm not sure I'd agree with above. Social networks didn't really exist before The Facebook. Understanding the potential market that could be created and turning down a $1B acquisition from Yahoo 20-years ago, at the time, seemed insane. Also making the shift to mobile, when people thought that would be the death of FB is a remarkable story. Identifying to acquire WhatsApp & Instagram, both laughed at when bought for the acquisition price at that time, now massive businesses for Meta (and their market cap value). Meta AI glasses are surprisingly popular and growing. And more... Note: I have no affiliation with Meta (not now or in the past) --- EDIT: Many people I see underestimate what it takes to build a business. It is the classic “I could have built that in a weekend” critique. Maybe, but the product is only like 10% of the problem. 90% of the work (and hard part) is execution.
- gowld 3mo ago
  Insane how? Google had already done it, and it's pretty clear that if someone wants to buy for $1B, it might be worth more than $1B.
- sc68cal 3mo ago
  > Social networks didn't really exist before The Facebook. You never heard of MySpace?
- rapsey 3mo ago
  > Social networks didn't really exist before The Facebook Social networks were all the rage. He executed the best of all and had the right strategy to build the user base.
  - goosejuice 3mo ago
    He was also a wealthy kid with connections. People place far too much weight on execution. Most of it is being in the right place at the right time and having existing connections. https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2003/11/19/facemash-creator-survives-ad-board-the/ https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2003/11/19/facemash-creat... https://www.businessinsider.com/how-mark-zuckerberg-hacked-into-the-harvard-crimson-2010-3 https://www.businessinsider.com/how-mark-zuckerberg-hacked-i... Not what I'd call great execution anyways.
Zigurd 3mo ago
He built a hell of a machine for buying political/cultural influence or filling your sales funnel, no matter the dubiousness of your product, with pinpoint precision. Doing that takes vision and talent, and extremely flexible ethics.
oulipo2 3mo ago
Same for Elon and Paypal
fragmede 3mo ago
In what way has he claimed special expertise to deceive others for financial gain, as befitting the word charlatan? He is the CEO of Facebook and we're told to not like Facebook, but when has he claimed special expertise to deceive others for financial gain? He's one of the richest people in the world and has been using that money to do things he wants to do. I don't think he's ever claimed to eg be a PhD AI researcher and for people to give him money because of a made up claim like that. People give Facebook money and it ends up in his pockets and he does things with that.
- etothet 3mo ago
  Perhaps “charlatan” in the literal sense isn’t true. I was speaking more colloquial, but that was lazy of me. I will ask though, has he been honest when he’s testified before Congress? At best, I think we can say he hasn’t been very transparent many of those times. If that’s not for power and/or financial gain, what is it? [0] - [0] https://dispatch.techoversight.org/top-report-mark-zuckerberg-lied-to-congress-we-cant-trust-his-testimony/ https://dispatch.techoversight.org/top-report-mark-zuckerber... - which was previously discussed on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47060486 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47060486 > “we're told to not like Facebook…” I didn’t have to be “told” to not like Facebook or Meta. The company’s actions for well over a decade and those of its executives, including the CEO, allowed to form that opinion on our own. I’d be willing to bet that experience is not unique to me.
  - fragmede 3mo ago
    You know how the most important skill of being a manager is to make your reports think that their ideas are their own instead of being told what to do, because it makes them more effective they want to do something rather than being told to do something? Yes, objectively, some actions Facebook has taken are bad. But I know we're not getting the whole story and someone's pushing an agenda. You're free to believe that you're forming your opinions on your own but the framing of facts does lead to seemingly obvious conclusions that aren't actually warranted when you look into the details. I am in no way saying that Facebook is good. Mark took certain actions which made people in the media have a vendetta against him, and so that's why we're hearing about them.
dang 3mo ago
Please don't post personal attacks to HN, regardless of $Person. A comment like this does not gratify curiosity, only indignation, and we're here for the former not the latter. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- sometimelurker 3mo ago
  um, I'm not sure exactly why what motivated that comment, but its extremely possible to believe every word there from a purely logical perspective, as opposed to an emotional one. yes we shouldn't post personal attacks, but saying 'Zuckerberg got lucky' and 'seems to chase the latest "it" thing' doesn't need to qualify as a personal attack. these can just be normal observations. see I wouldn't say the same things about sama, because I don't think they're true, and I dislike the both of them. as for the newsguidelines, I think it "gratifies one's intellectual curiosity" to think about what motivates tech ceos and talk about how they do things
  - dang 3mo ago
    Much of the language in the GP is pejorative, and therefore emotional, and therefore not possible to treat "from a purely logical perspective". I doubt that a purely logical evaluation is possible of any statement at all, outside of formal languages, but let's not digress. (Or maybe we should! it's at least more interesting to talk about than how $Billionaire-CEO just got lucky, lacks talent, or is a charlatan.) > I think it "gratifies one's intellectual curiosity" to think about what motivates tech ceos and talk about how they do things Yes, that's possible, but if one is venting indignation then one is doing something different. To digress again: "intellectual curiosity" is a funny phrase, one I don't entirely care for - it verges on pretentious and reminds me of Hemingway's ten-dollar words*. But I've stuck with it because you can't just say "curiosity", because there are other kinds of curiosity and they are quite different. * https://quoteinvestigator.com/2016/01/26/dictionary/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/2016/01/26/dictionary/
    - win311fwg 3mo ago
      > Much of the language in the GP is pejorative, and therefore emotional It was stated to be an opinion and opinions are inherently emotional, so that goes without saying, but it is a fact that the account holds that opinion and learning about that fact should spark intellectual curiosity. It is a property of the state of universe along with all the others. There is no reason to believe that intellectual curiosity is limited to only a subset of universe properties. Perhaps what this reveals is that HN does not attract a curious audience (anymore)? Does that suggest the guidelines are not in tune with the wants and needs of the user base? Trying to force curiosity to emerge does not go far if the users aren't curious to begin with.

by etothet 3mo ago

glimshe 3mo ago

I've never seen him saying anything particularly smart or insightful. My impression is that he has moderately above average intelligence and entrepreneurship. If he wasn't at the right place at the right time, he would be yet another founder of a random startup.

nosioptar 3mo ago
I've never seen him say or do anything particularly human. If I believed in such things, I'd think he was some kind of souless drone sent here by aliens/demons/etc to destroy humanity.
tmule 3mo ago
Your impression about his intelligence is way off. Mark was part of the study for mathematically precocious youth, which has a math cutoff at the 1/10K rarity. He also has ambition at the same level. What’s probably missing, of late, is good taste and judgment.
- glimshe 3mo ago
  It is an impression, as you said. If his intellect is so vast (vs just scoring well on the math skill tests), we should have seen some sort of evidence in the things he writes or says. He was called a programming prodigy but we've seen other actual programming prodigies delivering much more impressive results (Bellard, Frankel, Carmack etc).
  - tmule 3mo ago
    I don’t know what definition of intelligence you’re using, but scoring extremely well on math tests qualifying him for that study is fully aligned with the psychometric POV.
- eikeq1 3mo ago
  This has no bearing on anything. Did Steve jobs have any of that? No. But he shits all over any tech ceo in history and it’ll probably stay that way.
  - tmule 3mo ago
    Huh? I was addressing a specific claim - not even sure what you’re trying to refute.

drivebyhooting 3mo ago

That becomes more clear by the day. Zuck has no insight. His sole ambition is to be rich and taken seriously.

IshKebab 3mo ago

I dunno he made a few very wise purchases (Instagram, WhatsApp). But yeah he hasn't had a single first party hit apart from Facebook, and the Metaverse is 100% emperor's new clothes. Even worse than Alexa's "people will buy things through a janky voice interface right"?

chrisss395 3mo ago

Thought the same thing even before I saw your comment!

sjsdaiuasgdia 3mo ago

This is basically the case with most of the tech billionaires. They have one, maybe two real successes and it's mostly inertia after that.

alberth 3mo ago

While I know criticizing Meta is popular, I'm not sure I'd agree with above. Social networks didn't really exist before The Facebook. Understanding the potential market that could be created and turning down a $1B acquisition from Yahoo 20-years ago, at the time, seemed insane. Also making the shift to mobile, when people thought that would be the death of FB is a remarkable story. Identifying to acquire WhatsApp & Instagram, both laughed at when bought for the acquisition price at that time, now massive businesses for Meta (and their market cap value). Meta AI glasses are surprisingly popular and growing. And more... Note: I have no affiliation with Meta (not now or in the past) --- EDIT: Many people I see underestimate what it takes to build a business. It is the classic “I could have built that in a weekend” critique. Maybe, but the product is only like 10% of the problem. 90% of the work (and hard part) is execution.

gowld 3mo ago
Insane how? Google had already done it, and it's pretty clear that if someone wants to buy for $1B, it might be worth more than $1B.
sc68cal 3mo ago
> Social networks didn't really exist before The Facebook. You never heard of MySpace?
rapsey 3mo ago
> Social networks didn't really exist before The Facebook Social networks were all the rage. He executed the best of all and had the right strategy to build the user base.
- goosejuice 3mo ago
  He was also a wealthy kid with connections. People place far too much weight on execution. Most of it is being in the right place at the right time and having existing connections. https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2003/11/19/facemash-creator-survives-ad-board-the/ https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2003/11/19/facemash-creat... https://www.businessinsider.com/how-mark-zuckerberg-hacked-into-the-harvard-crimson-2010-3 https://www.businessinsider.com/how-mark-zuckerberg-hacked-i... Not what I'd call great execution anyways.

Zigurd 3mo ago

He built a hell of a machine for buying political/cultural influence or filling your sales funnel, no matter the dubiousness of your product, with pinpoint precision. Doing that takes vision and talent, and extremely flexible ethics.

oulipo2 3mo ago

Same for Elon and Paypal

fragmede 3mo ago

In what way has he claimed special expertise to deceive others for financial gain, as befitting the word charlatan? He is the CEO of Facebook and we're told to not like Facebook, but when has he claimed special expertise to deceive others for financial gain? He's one of the richest people in the world and has been using that money to do things he wants to do. I don't think he's ever claimed to eg be a PhD AI researcher and for people to give him money because of a made up claim like that. People give Facebook money and it ends up in his pockets and he does things with that.

etothet 3mo ago
Perhaps “charlatan” in the literal sense isn’t true. I was speaking more colloquial, but that was lazy of me. I will ask though, has he been honest when he’s testified before Congress? At best, I think we can say he hasn’t been very transparent many of those times. If that’s not for power and/or financial gain, what is it? [0] - [0] https://dispatch.techoversight.org/top-report-mark-zuckerberg-lied-to-congress-we-cant-trust-his-testimony/ https://dispatch.techoversight.org/top-report-mark-zuckerber... - which was previously discussed on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47060486 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47060486 > “we're told to not like Facebook…” I didn’t have to be “told” to not like Facebook or Meta. The company’s actions for well over a decade and those of its executives, including the CEO, allowed to form that opinion on our own. I’d be willing to bet that experience is not unique to me.
- fragmede 3mo ago
  You know how the most important skill of being a manager is to make your reports think that their ideas are their own instead of being told what to do, because it makes them more effective they want to do something rather than being told to do something? Yes, objectively, some actions Facebook has taken are bad. But I know we're not getting the whole story and someone's pushing an agenda. You're free to believe that you're forming your opinions on your own but the framing of facts does lead to seemingly obvious conclusions that aren't actually warranted when you look into the details. I am in no way saying that Facebook is good. Mark took certain actions which made people in the media have a vendetta against him, and so that's why we're hearing about them.

dang 3mo ago

Please don't post personal attacks to HN, regardless of $Person. A comment like this does not gratify curiosity, only indignation, and we're here for the former not the latter. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

sometimelurker 3mo ago
um, I'm not sure exactly why what motivated that comment, but its extremely possible to believe every word there from a purely logical perspective, as opposed to an emotional one. yes we shouldn't post personal attacks, but saying 'Zuckerberg got lucky' and 'seems to chase the latest "it" thing' doesn't need to qualify as a personal attack. these can just be normal observations. see I wouldn't say the same things about sama, because I don't think they're true, and I dislike the both of them. as for the newsguidelines, I think it "gratifies one's intellectual curiosity" to think about what motivates tech ceos and talk about how they do things
- dang 3mo ago
  Much of the language in the GP is pejorative, and therefore emotional, and therefore not possible to treat "from a purely logical perspective". I doubt that a purely logical evaluation is possible of any statement at all, outside of formal languages, but let's not digress. (Or maybe we should! it's at least more interesting to talk about than how $Billionaire-CEO just got lucky, lacks talent, or is a charlatan.) > I think it "gratifies one's intellectual curiosity" to think about what motivates tech ceos and talk about how they do things Yes, that's possible, but if one is venting indignation then one is doing something different. To digress again: "intellectual curiosity" is a funny phrase, one I don't entirely care for - it verges on pretentious and reminds me of Hemingway's ten-dollar words*. But I've stuck with it because you can't just say "curiosity", because there are other kinds of curiosity and they are quite different. * https://quoteinvestigator.com/2016/01/26/dictionary/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/2016/01/26/dictionary/
  - win311fwg 3mo ago
    > Much of the language in the GP is pejorative, and therefore emotional It was stated to be an opinion and opinions are inherently emotional, so that goes without saying, but it is a fact that the account holds that opinion and learning about that fact should spark intellectual curiosity. It is a property of the state of universe along with all the others. There is no reason to believe that intellectual curiosity is limited to only a subset of universe properties. Perhaps what this reveals is that HN does not attract a curious audience (anymore)? Does that suggest the guidelines are not in tune with the wants and needs of the user base? Trying to force curiosity to emerge does not go far if the users aren't curious to begin with.