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Reminder to the people reading this thread and overall comments, that in Europe everyone uses Debit Cards instead of Credit Cards. Credit Card in Europe is ver
by cloudengineer94 3mo ago
Reminder to the people reading this thread and overall comments, that in Europe everyone uses Debit Cards instead of Credit Cards.
Credit Card in Europe is very much associated with Debt.
- lotsofpulp 3mo agoThe article uses the term credit card for apparently no reason, because Visa and Mastercard also support debit cards. The EU is probably more concerned about Visa and Mastercard payment networks being under the control of American leaders.
- Muromec 3mo agoWe call every card a credit card even if most of them are actually debit.
- calgoo 3mo agowe dont in spain, we call it "tarjeta de debito" and "tarjeta de credito" or just "la tarjeta" or the card.
- cuvert 3mo agoAnd in Italy many people say Bancomat when they want to pay with the card even if they don't have a card with that circuit anymore.
- touristtam 3mo agoIt used to be the "blue card" in France (Carte Bleu)
- BlueTemplar 3mo agoThat network still exists, and can now even be used preferentially over Visa/MasterCard, in particular when paying online.
- izacus 3mo agoYep, although a huge % of banks are issuing Visa and MasterCard debit cards as default nowadays.
- preisschild 3mo agoYes. Most people here (Austria) use their mastercard debit card to pay cashless. You get them at 14 already IIRC.
- hdgvhicv 3mo agoAmazes me how London lost the plot. 30 years ago access, switch, access etc were common, but visa and mastercard managed to take over.
- teamonkey 3mo agoSwitch merged with Maestro, which was owned by Mastercard, to become Switch-Maestro, which eventually became Mastercard Debit.
- retired 3mo agoAnd most Europeans that have a credit-card need to pay them off at the end of the month. Technically they are charge cards. Unlike a traditional credit card, a charge card does not allow you to carry a revolving balance.
- lxgr 3mo agoCan we please cool it with the sweeping "most/all of Europe" assertions? This, just like credit use overall, is also highly country/region specific.
- nswango 3mo agoThis is not true. Plenty of Europeans have credit cards which work exactly like US credit cards. The main difference between credit cards in Europe and in the US is that poor people can't get them here.
- lxgr 3mo agoLet's not pretend that predatory lending is not a thing in at least some EU countries as well, just because it takes other forms (installment payments, buy now pay later etc.), but as a general trend, I'd agree that it's much less common.
- Ekaros 3mo agoI was denied credit card after changing jobs. I did have some student debt, but small amount on small payment and rates were low. Also had other credit card but not high limit. Nothing in negative credit history. Did get the same card a few months later after probationary period. But yeah even without significant existing debt you can get denied in Europe.
- rsynnott 3mo ago> The main difference between credit cards in Europe and in the US is that poor people can't get them here. Nah, really the main difference is that the EU caps interchange (paid ultimately by the merchant) at 0.3%, whereas it can be upwards of 3% in the US for high-end cards. Without big interchange earnings, there's little reason for issuers to push credit cards, and they're less attractive to consumers (interchange pays for 'reward' schemes).
- orwin 3mo agoAnd even when you have a credit card, it might act like a debit card (every payment shows as debit in your banking app, even if you really pay on the 10th of the month or something).
- testfrequency 3mo agoSlowly coming to a close in the US also. Some places already of course not accepting Amex, some places not accepting Visa Infinites (CSR, Venture, etc). The future of banking is direct. The days of free rewards at a loss are gone as premium US cards are nearing the $1,000 AF mark for luxury coupons.
- twoodfin 3mo agoWhich places are distinguishing high-fee Visa cards?
- testfrequency 3mo agoThe legislation has been in the works for years now (not fully approved just yet). It’s why many US banks all are trying to get around issuers any way possible now. https://www.redbridgedta.com/us/market-intelligence/the-visa-mastercard-38-billion-swipe-fee-settlement/ https://www.redbridgedta.com/us/market-intelligence/the-visa... I am admittedly having trouble finding where I’ve seen it brought up, but some online forums I lurk on for finance have had stories of people being denied from using specifically Visa Infinite branded credit cards. There’s also been stories of businesses not accepting Chase cards flat out, which I assume is to also curb the higher costs they incur from the premium Chase cards. Europe has long had laws in place that have hard caps set at 0.3% and 0.2% respectively for credit or debit cards. The US has been milking this with uncapped 3.0%+ fees, which is why the credit cards there drive so much profit - at the expense of every business owner.
- Ylpertnodi 3mo agoEu: Most of the people I know use debit rather than credit because we can manage our finances.
- ZekeSulastin 3mo agoHow exactly does “we can manage our finances” follow from picking debit over credit?
- ben_w 3mo agoCan't go into debt if you don't have a line of credit.
- greyface- 3mo agoIf one is capable of managing one's finances (and paying the card off in full every month), credit cards are a useful tool. They're a problem if one can't manage one's finances.
- hkpack 3mo agoIt is interesting that both options of either not using CC entirely or using CC but paying it off by the end of the month are equivalent, but you’ve somehow reframe the second ine as some virtuous skill one have to master (I’m not just buying bread, I’m also managing my finances by repaying the value of it in full by the end of the month to avoid being charged for interest and simultaneously improving my credit score). Business model of banks in regard to CC are preying on people not paying it all in full for various reasons.
- greyface- 3mo agoFinancially, they're not equivalent. If you buy your bread on credit, you get an interest-free loan, and benefit from the time value of the money that you otherwise would have paid immediately. As you correctly point out, this value comes from those fleeced by the arrangement. If my comment attributed any moral valence to the two options, that was unintentional.
- Oarch 3mo agoI'm in Europe and I can't say this is the case at all. I've never heard anyone express such an idea.
- l23k4 3mo agoIt is a prevalent view among the lower socioeconomic classes.
- gpvos 3mo agoAmong the middle and higher as well.
- amelius 3mo agoThe problem as I see it is that you pay your credit card bill only once a month which gives you no bearing on your effective balance. This is mostly a problem for lower and middle income people who live from paycheck to paycheck.
- watwut 3mo agoMiddle and higher income people dont need debt on monthly basis and see not having that debt as personal virtue. It just makes no sense to not pay things right away.
- amelius 3mo agoWell in some cases paying with a credit card is the only option.
- Hikikomori 3mo agoHaven't run into that in Europe.
- 3mo ago
- lxgr 3mo agoReminder to all commenters that Europe is not a single homogeneous country and somewhat diverse in various things, including payments and finance. Credit cards are definitely a thing in many European countries.
- ben_w 3mo ago> Credit cards are definitely a thing in many European countries Yes, a thing associated with debt. I lived in the UK before Brexit, and that would be an example of such.
- lxgr 3mo agoYou are of course free to extrapolate your experience from a single European country to the whole continent, but it's still not a coherent argument for or against anything.
- graemep 3mo agoA lot of people in the UK use credit cards for the extra legal protections, and for cash back and reward schemes. The UK has pay by bank, which is very like digital cash, and can be used online, but its much less used than cards are.
- xquce 3mo agowhich ones use Credit Cards to a larger degree than Debit Cards, like they do in the US?
- anygivnthursday 3mo agoNot everyone. We use both and mostly credit card for online payments that we pay off at the end of the month. It has a limit and it is easier deal with potential fraud vs a debit card where your own money goes. But does it matter? All my debit cards are Visa and Mastercard anyway.
- BlueTemplar 3mo agoMy debit card is both MasterCard and CB. And a few months ago I noticed that I could pick either network when paying online.
- tomp 3mo agowhich is in fact a massive pain in the ass, because car rentals and hotels often require credit cards to make reservations (at least in my experience...)
- verzali 3mo agoI've almost always found a debit card works in those cases.
- jakub_g 3mo agoI've heard stories like "fine, we'll take your debit card, but only if you also pay a non-reimboursable $$$ deposit in cash" for car rental. (Mostly in central/eastern Europe.) (From what I was told, the thing in favor of a credit card is that the rental agency can put a hold on the security deposit for much longer than on a debit card: a few weeks vs a few days).
- everfrustrated 3mo agoCustom in Europe - where debit cards are the most common - is to settle the hotel bill on check-in.
- egorfine 3mo agoObviously. Because why would a rental company turn down > 90% of the customers?
- paulsutter 3mo agoNote to Europeans: Americans use credit cards and rarely debit cards because here the terms on debit cards are so much worse (for contesting charges, etc), so debit cards never really caught on for anything more than withdrawing cash. In the US, users of debit cards are assumed to be uncreditworthy, because debit cards in the US have such bad T&C's that poor credit score is the main reason folks use them here.
- subscribed 3mo agoThat reads like "in Europe" (which is a pretty diverse place? "everyone thinks debit is credit and credit is debit"? I don't think that's the case.
- stefantalpalaru 3mo ago[dead]
- deleted 3mo ago[deleted]
- bdangubic 3mo agoCredit Card is everywhere associated with debt
- amanaplanacanal 3mo agoIn the US, having debt is seen as a good thing, as long as you stay current on payments. Not having debt gives you a lower credit score than having debt, which send kind of fucked up to me.
- triceratops 3mo agoThat's a common misconception. Credit score is positively correlated with paying on time, having high available credit relative to usage, and the age of your oldest credit account. However, using more of your cards' limit (a high debt utilization ratio) actually reduces your score. On-time payments are only one factor in your score. Depending on the model it may only account for 20-30% of the score. Using your cards a few times a year may satisfy the criteria. You don't have to take on any debt to have a high credit score.
- bdangubic 3mo agocan 100% confirm this on a personal level, outside of mortgage I have no credit card balances (I use CC extensively but always pay the full balance) and have had 835+ score for years now.
- amanaplanacanal 3mo agoYes. They want you to have the mortgage and the cards, and the record of paying them on time. If you had no mortgage and never had the credit cards, your score would be much lower.
- triceratops 3mo agoI've had a high score with only credit cards and low usage.
- egorfine 3mo agoOne should also bear in mind that the technical difference between Debit and Credit cards is quite blurry in the EU. Like, a card can officially be of the Debit kind, but have all the features of a Credit card enabled. Which is actually and typically the case. And for example in Ukraine the situation is exactly the opposite: cards issued are typically Credit cards, but with all features of credit cards turned off which effectively makes them debit cards.
- port11 3mo agoGreat point. N26 “credit” cards are debit cards with embossed letters in them and a CVV for buying online. Same with my Belgian bank.