6 ms·

> Open models are served via various means, some by the companies that released them and some by third parties like OpenRouter. Unfortunately, both of these ro

> Open models are served via various means, some by the companies that released them and some by third parties like OpenRouter. Unfortunately, both of these routes are dodgier in terms of privacy and data sharing, and I would not feel the same comfort sending API calls containing client or confidential data to them. That's why I'm using eurouter.ai with the following routing rule for all my requests: { "model": "glm-5.2", "models": [ "deepseek-v4-pro", "deepseek-v4-flash" ], "provider": { "allow_fallbacks": true, "data_collection": "deny", "data_residency": "EU", "max_retention_days": 0, "eu_owned": true } } Sure, it's quite expensive, but at least on a legal side data privacy is ensured. I trust them more than e.g. Anthropic, OpenAI or OpenRouter. Personally, I find it morally unacceptable to use U.S. AI tools, because I do not want to support them financially and thus support the crimes they are involved in[1]. [1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48512339 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48512339

ttoinou 3mo ago
You dont care about which exact provider it is using behind the hood ?
- Phlogi 3mo ago
  No, as long as they follow the requirements, especially the data privacy agreements. What would you? Price?
  - fredoliveira 3mo ago
    Output quality immediately comes to mind, of course. Models are converging, but they converge in bands, and frontier is frontier. I would not like to have any workflows in any area of my business where output is generated by an assortment of models from different providers. For trivial, mundane tasks that might be fine, but it certainly doesn't apply across the board.
    - MarceColl 3mo ago
      Not caring about providers doesn't mean not caring about models.
  - ttoinou 3mo ago
    How do you know they're following requirements ? At least a quick search about the company providing the service would be useful
    - Phlogi 3mo ago
      Well there is an established legal system that i rely on. I don't have to check every provider, that is the value i get from this router service.
      - NewsaHackO 3mo ago
        The issue is that the legal system is retroactive, and information that is made public cannot be retracted. If a random company gets your sensitive data and disseminates it to the world, then sure, they will face legal repercussions, but the damage would have already been done to you.
simianwords 3mo ago
GDPR compliant llm was a joke a few months back but here we are
- speedgoose 3mo ago
  I work in Europe, sometimes with sensitive data, and LLMs weren’t an exception a few months ago. Maybe it was funny to you, but designing data platforms that respect GDPR and involve LLMs is a thing.
- throw1234567891 3mo ago
  But is no joke anymore.
throwaway27448 3mo ago
Why use EU specifically? I get not trusting the US, of course, but surely the EU isn't far behind in its desire to spy on its own citizens. Do you not live there?
- earthnail 3mo ago
  From all the large governmental institutions, the EU is the one currently holding up traditional western values. That gives it street cred in this subject.
  - kortilla 3mo ago
    >traditional western values This seems tautological because Europe is pretty weak on the values that people in the US might care about (freedom of speech, limited govt, etc). What values specifically are you optimizing for here?
    - p_j_w 3mo ago
      > values that people in the US might care about (freedom of speech, limited govt, etc). The US federal government forced Paramount to take Colbert off the air. Seems that people in the US don’t actually value these things. > What values specifically are you optimizing for here? Probably not being fascist.
      - Gigachad 3mo ago
        They currently have the military circling a pool to intimidate people trying to take photos of the botched paint job.
        fuck_google 3mo ago
        Intimidation is the sincerest form of flattery.
        Applejinx 3mo ago
bandrami 3mo ago
If data security is an actual concern I don't think there's a solution other than biting the bullet and self-hosting.
johndough 3mo ago
I had a look at eurouter.ai and it seems like an extremely bad offer. - The prices are ridiculous (15 % markup for free account). - They have a rate limit of 1000 requests per month, unless you pay 40€ per month for ... what exactly is their value proposition? - They have a single provider (TensorX) for DeepSeek-V4-Pro, with a cache read cost that is over 100 times higher than DeepSeek ($0.44 vs $0.003625). Notably, I had to look at the TensorX website for that information, since I could not find any information about cached token cost on eurorouter.ai.
- qznc 3mo ago
  I guess the prices are for "EU owned" instead of "EU hosted". The data centers in the EU where you can rent GPUs is mostly US companies.
- trollbridge 3mo ago
  It looks like a business opportunity, then, to provide inference that is EU-local and/or EU-owned. If there aren't enough businesses who want to do this, the EU should figure out how it can properly incentivise that to change.
- imhoguy 3mo ago
  Hosting anything in EU must cover redtape and carbon taxes in electricity bill.
  - jampekka 3mo ago
    The markup is not going to the providers, only the router. It seems more like eurouter found a niche it can milk for a while.
  - Grombobulous 3mo ago
    That seems pretty unsubstantiated. Hetzner proves that EU data center != expensive. Low carbon does not equal expensive, either. Solar is the cheapest power generation method. Solar plus grid scale batteries is in the same cost ballpark as natural gas. There’s nothing about data centers that is inherently a high carbon business. It’s only a high carbon business in places like the US where political leadership purposefully fights against renewable energy projects that private businesses want to undertake on their own dime.
himata4113 3mo ago
The part that gets me about anthropic red lines is "of Americans", okay so the rest of the civilized world is up for grabs then? It's okay to destabalize allies with sabotaged tests (in machine learning) and data exfiltration outside America? What gets me the most is that they claim that the model should follow the https://www.anthropic.com/constitution https://www.anthropic.com/constitution and they claim that it's embedded into the model. However, system prompts in claude code and cowork re-iterate all of these points and if they're embedded you shouldn't need to do that. Now, if you ask the API version of claude to be a hitler supporter with enough prompt engineering it will become one which directly contradicts what they claim to do, opus 4.7 specifically will be happy to create anti-(insert minority group) propaganda although I haven't had the same success with 4.8 thus far, but I also haven't been motivated enough to push it in that direction yet since I've been more interested in exploting the cyber capabilities of the model. My conclusion from the very start is that Anthropic's strategy are pure optics and considering the fact that there was an outpoor of support for the company I think it has been very successful.
- nerdsniper 3mo ago
  > The part that gets me about anthropic red lines is "of Americans", okay so the rest of the civilized world is up for grabs then? It's okay to destabalize allies with sabotaged tests (in machine learning) and data exfiltration outside America? Regardless of Anthropic's "moral" position (inasmuch as a corporation can even have morals) against spying on non-Americans, they would have no way to enforce that limitation against the government because non-citizens outside of the USA have no protections from the intrusions of the US government.
  - cbolton 3mo ago
    They can include these limitations in a contract which can be enforced like any contract.
    - NewsaHackO 3mo ago
      I don't think they can, at least if they are making an argument for why the Defense Production Act should not apply to them. Their original argument is that they will not help with anything that is unconstitutional, such as the unlawful spying on American citizens, without a warrant.
codedokode 3mo ago
Not only it requires a minimum payment of 39 euro, it doesn't accept cryptocurrency althogh that can be worked around by buying a prepaid virtual card for crypto.
- yogorenapan 3mo ago
  What services give you a prepaid virtual card for crypto without KYC?
root-parent 3mo ago
Crimes does not even starts to describe it: "AI-assisted targeting in the Gaza Strip" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AI-assisted_targeting_in_the_Gaza_Strip https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AI-assisted_targeting_in_the_G... "Palantir allegedly enables Israel's AI targeting in Gaza, raising concerns over war crimes" - https://www.business-humanrights.org/de/neuste-meldungen/palantir-allegedly-enables-israels-ai-targeting-amid-israels-war-in-gaza-raising-concerns-over-war-crimes/ https://www.business-humanrights.org/de/neuste-meldungen/pal... "What The Wounds Are Telling Us" - https://www.volkskrant.nl/kijkverder/v/2025/gunshot-palestine-children-israel-war~v1819649/ https://www.volkskrant.nl/kijkverder/v/2025/gunshot-palestin...
trollbridge 3mo ago
The great part about open models is that you can do this. Do you have a sound reason to need EU data locality? You can. Do you want the confidence (and are willing to accept the expense) of only running models on local hardware you control? You can. Do you want the cheapest possible option - choosing a Chinese, for example, provider, or perhaps a provider offering it for free where you agree they can use your prompts? You can. Do you need to comply with some kind of regulation like GDPR or rules for contracting with the U.S. federal government? No problem. (Although I'm still waiting for DeepSeek V4 to show up on Amazon BedRock so it can be used from GovCloud...) Do you have moral objections and want to actually live by them? You can.
KronisLV 3mo ago
Actually got curious about other alternatives to OpenRouter and looked into it a bit. EURouter (Amsterdam): https://www.eurouter.ai/pricing https://www.eurouter.ai/pricing Eden AI (France): https://www.edenai.co/pricing https://www.edenai.co/pricing nexos.ai (Lithuania): https://nexos.ai/pricing/ https://nexos.ai/pricing/ Requesty (Germany): https://www.requesty.ai/pricing https://www.requesty.ai/pricing Cortecs (Austria): https://cortecs.ai/pricing https://cortecs.ai/pricing Nordference (Estonia): https://nordference.ai/pricing https://nordference.ai/pricing Guess those are really popping up as mushrooms, eh? Not an endorsement of any of those on my part cause I haven't personally used them, but seems like there are at least options for those who need them.
fg137 3mo ago
If your only concern is data residency, data privacy and sharing, why not just use bedrock with the processing region locked to eu-west-2? For sure, it's not an European company serving the LLM, but it satisfies your requirements otherwise and is trusted by tons of companies worldwide.
- quikoa 3mo ago
  > it's not an European company serving the LLM That's a pretty big downside if data privacy and sharing is one of the main concerns.
  - fg137 3mo ago
    I'd like to see some real reasoning here that is based on facts.
    - layer8 3mo ago
      One of the facts is the existence of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CLOUD_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CLOUD_Act, in conjunction with https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2705 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2705 and https://www.nsa.gov/Signals-Intelligence/FISA/ https://www.nsa.gov/Signals-Intelligence/FISA/.
- helloplanets 3mo ago
  Anthropic already explicitly communicated that they'll store and check all the data from Bedrock or any platform, even if you've selected zero data retention, if using Mythos class models. To use these models on any platform, you'll have to accept these terms regardless of the region. > Limited data retention and review as part of our safety work. Prompts submitted to, and outputs generated by, Mythos-class models are retained for 30 days for trust and safety purposes, on every platform where these models are offered. > Change applies to organizations that have set up workspaces with zero data retention (ZDR) in Claude Console, use Claude Code with ZDR in Claude Enterprise, or access Claude through AWS Bedrock, Google Cloud Agent Platform, or Microsoft Foundry with ZDR. https://support.claude.com/en/articles/15425996-data-retention-practices-for-mythos-class-models https://support.claude.com/en/articles/15425996-data-retenti...
vonneumannstan 3mo ago
Lol what performative shite. Chinese astroturfing 101. You're either mentally ill or a shill.
WhyNotHugo 3mo ago
You only need to worry about GDPR and the hoster being in the EU if you're giving the model actual access to production data — which you shouldn't anyway. Use the model to write code that processes or analyses the data, so that process can easily be reproduced with deterministic results.

ttoinou 3mo ago

You dont care about which exact provider it is using behind the hood ?

Phlogi 3mo ago
No, as long as they follow the requirements, especially the data privacy agreements. What would you? Price?
- fredoliveira 3mo ago
  Output quality immediately comes to mind, of course. Models are converging, but they converge in bands, and frontier is frontier. I would not like to have any workflows in any area of my business where output is generated by an assortment of models from different providers. For trivial, mundane tasks that might be fine, but it certainly doesn't apply across the board.
  - MarceColl 3mo ago
    Not caring about providers doesn't mean not caring about models.
- ttoinou 3mo ago
  How do you know they're following requirements ? At least a quick search about the company providing the service would be useful
  - Phlogi 3mo ago
    Well there is an established legal system that i rely on. I don't have to check every provider, that is the value i get from this router service.
    - NewsaHackO 3mo ago
      The issue is that the legal system is retroactive, and information that is made public cannot be retracted. If a random company gets your sensitive data and disseminates it to the world, then sure, they will face legal repercussions, but the damage would have already been done to you.

simianwords 3mo ago

GDPR compliant llm was a joke a few months back but here we are

speedgoose 3mo ago
I work in Europe, sometimes with sensitive data, and LLMs weren’t an exception a few months ago. Maybe it was funny to you, but designing data platforms that respect GDPR and involve LLMs is a thing.
throw1234567891 3mo ago
But is no joke anymore.

throwaway27448 3mo ago

Why use EU specifically? I get not trusting the US, of course, but surely the EU isn't far behind in its desire to spy on its own citizens. Do you not live there?

earthnail 3mo ago
From all the large governmental institutions, the EU is the one currently holding up traditional western values. That gives it street cred in this subject.
- kortilla 3mo ago
  >traditional western values This seems tautological because Europe is pretty weak on the values that people in the US might care about (freedom of speech, limited govt, etc). What values specifically are you optimizing for here?
  - p_j_w 3mo ago
    > values that people in the US might care about (freedom of speech, limited govt, etc). The US federal government forced Paramount to take Colbert off the air. Seems that people in the US don’t actually value these things. > What values specifically are you optimizing for here? Probably not being fascist.
    - Gigachad 3mo ago
      They currently have the military circling a pool to intimidate people trying to take photos of the botched paint job.
      - fuck_google 3mo ago
        Intimidation is the sincerest form of flattery.
      - Applejinx 3mo ago

bandrami 3mo ago

If data security is an actual concern I don't think there's a solution other than biting the bullet and self-hosting.

johndough 3mo ago

I had a look at eurouter.ai and it seems like an extremely bad offer. - The prices are ridiculous (15 % markup for free account). - They have a rate limit of 1000 requests per month, unless you pay 40€ per month for ... what exactly is their value proposition? - They have a single provider (TensorX) for DeepSeek-V4-Pro, with a cache read cost that is over 100 times higher than DeepSeek ($0.44 vs $0.003625). Notably, I had to look at the TensorX website for that information, since I could not find any information about cached token cost on eurorouter.ai.

qznc 3mo ago
I guess the prices are for "EU owned" instead of "EU hosted". The data centers in the EU where you can rent GPUs is mostly US companies.
trollbridge 3mo ago
It looks like a business opportunity, then, to provide inference that is EU-local and/or EU-owned. If there aren't enough businesses who want to do this, the EU should figure out how it can properly incentivise that to change.
imhoguy 3mo ago
Hosting anything in EU must cover redtape and carbon taxes in electricity bill.
- jampekka 3mo ago
  The markup is not going to the providers, only the router. It seems more like eurouter found a niche it can milk for a while.
- Grombobulous 3mo ago
  That seems pretty unsubstantiated. Hetzner proves that EU data center != expensive. Low carbon does not equal expensive, either. Solar is the cheapest power generation method. Solar plus grid scale batteries is in the same cost ballpark as natural gas. There’s nothing about data centers that is inherently a high carbon business. It’s only a high carbon business in places like the US where political leadership purposefully fights against renewable energy projects that private businesses want to undertake on their own dime.

himata4113 3mo ago

The part that gets me about anthropic red lines is "of Americans", okay so the rest of the civilized world is up for grabs then? It's okay to destabalize allies with sabotaged tests (in machine learning) and data exfiltration outside America? What gets me the most is that they claim that the model should follow the https://www.anthropic.com/constitution https://www.anthropic.com/constitution and they claim that it's embedded into the model. However, system prompts in claude code and cowork re-iterate all of these points and if they're embedded you shouldn't need to do that. Now, if you ask the API version of claude to be a hitler supporter with enough prompt engineering it will become one which directly contradicts what they claim to do, opus 4.7 specifically will be happy to create anti-(insert minority group) propaganda although I haven't had the same success with 4.8 thus far, but I also haven't been motivated enough to push it in that direction yet since I've been more interested in exploting the cyber capabilities of the model. My conclusion from the very start is that Anthropic's strategy are pure optics and considering the fact that there was an outpoor of support for the company I think it has been very successful.

nerdsniper 3mo ago
> The part that gets me about anthropic red lines is "of Americans", okay so the rest of the civilized world is up for grabs then? It's okay to destabalize allies with sabotaged tests (in machine learning) and data exfiltration outside America? Regardless of Anthropic's "moral" position (inasmuch as a corporation can even have morals) against spying on non-Americans, they would have no way to enforce that limitation against the government because non-citizens outside of the USA have no protections from the intrusions of the US government.
- cbolton 3mo ago
  They can include these limitations in a contract which can be enforced like any contract.
  - NewsaHackO 3mo ago
    I don't think they can, at least if they are making an argument for why the Defense Production Act should not apply to them. Their original argument is that they will not help with anything that is unconstitutional, such as the unlawful spying on American citizens, without a warrant.

codedokode 3mo ago

Not only it requires a minimum payment of 39 euro, it doesn't accept cryptocurrency althogh that can be worked around by buying a prepaid virtual card for crypto.

yogorenapan 3mo ago
What services give you a prepaid virtual card for crypto without KYC?

root-parent 3mo ago

Crimes does not even starts to describe it: "AI-assisted targeting in the Gaza Strip" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AI-assisted_targeting_in_the_Gaza_Strip https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AI-assisted_targeting_in_the_G... "Palantir allegedly enables Israel's AI targeting in Gaza, raising concerns over war crimes" - https://www.business-humanrights.org/de/neuste-meldungen/palantir-allegedly-enables-israels-ai-targeting-amid-israels-war-in-gaza-raising-concerns-over-war-crimes/ https://www.business-humanrights.org/de/neuste-meldungen/pal... "What The Wounds Are Telling Us" - https://www.volkskrant.nl/kijkverder/v/2025/gunshot-palestine-children-israel-war~v1819649/ https://www.volkskrant.nl/kijkverder/v/2025/gunshot-palestin...

trollbridge 3mo ago

The great part about open models is that you can do this. Do you have a sound reason to need EU data locality? You can. Do you want the confidence (and are willing to accept the expense) of only running models on local hardware you control? You can. Do you want the cheapest possible option - choosing a Chinese, for example, provider, or perhaps a provider offering it for free where you agree they can use your prompts? You can. Do you need to comply with some kind of regulation like GDPR or rules for contracting with the U.S. federal government? No problem. (Although I'm still waiting for DeepSeek V4 to show up on Amazon BedRock so it can be used from GovCloud...) Do you have moral objections and want to actually live by them? You can.

KronisLV 3mo ago

Actually got curious about other alternatives to OpenRouter and looked into it a bit. EURouter (Amsterdam): https://www.eurouter.ai/pricing https://www.eurouter.ai/pricing Eden AI (France): https://www.edenai.co/pricing https://www.edenai.co/pricing nexos.ai (Lithuania): https://nexos.ai/pricing/ https://nexos.ai/pricing/ Requesty (Germany): https://www.requesty.ai/pricing https://www.requesty.ai/pricing Cortecs (Austria): https://cortecs.ai/pricing https://cortecs.ai/pricing Nordference (Estonia): https://nordference.ai/pricing https://nordference.ai/pricing Guess those are really popping up as mushrooms, eh? Not an endorsement of any of those on my part cause I haven't personally used them, but seems like there are at least options for those who need them.

fg137 3mo ago

If your only concern is data residency, data privacy and sharing, why not just use bedrock with the processing region locked to eu-west-2? For sure, it's not an European company serving the LLM, but it satisfies your requirements otherwise and is trusted by tons of companies worldwide.

quikoa 3mo ago
> it's not an European company serving the LLM That's a pretty big downside if data privacy and sharing is one of the main concerns.
- fg137 3mo ago
  I'd like to see some real reasoning here that is based on facts.
  - layer8 3mo ago
    One of the facts is the existence of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CLOUD_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CLOUD_Act, in conjunction with https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2705 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2705 and https://www.nsa.gov/Signals-Intelligence/FISA/ https://www.nsa.gov/Signals-Intelligence/FISA/.
helloplanets 3mo ago
Anthropic already explicitly communicated that they'll store and check all the data from Bedrock or any platform, even if you've selected zero data retention, if using Mythos class models. To use these models on any platform, you'll have to accept these terms regardless of the region. > Limited data retention and review as part of our safety work. Prompts submitted to, and outputs generated by, Mythos-class models are retained for 30 days for trust and safety purposes, on every platform where these models are offered. > Change applies to organizations that have set up workspaces with zero data retention (ZDR) in Claude Console, use Claude Code with ZDR in Claude Enterprise, or access Claude through AWS Bedrock, Google Cloud Agent Platform, or Microsoft Foundry with ZDR. https://support.claude.com/en/articles/15425996-data-retention-practices-for-mythos-class-models https://support.claude.com/en/articles/15425996-data-retenti...

vonneumannstan 3mo ago

Lol what performative shite. Chinese astroturfing 101. You're either mentally ill or a shill.

WhyNotHugo 3mo ago

You only need to worry about GDPR and the hoster being in the EU if you're giving the model actual access to production data — which you shouldn't anyway. Use the model to write code that processes or analyses the data, so that process can easily be reproduced with deterministic results.