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i do wonder, that in the age where we have image and video creation out of the bag, whether or not this will result in whole classes of evidence becoming comple
by bobthepanda 4mo ago
i do wonder, that in the age where we have image and video creation out of the bag, whether or not this will result in whole classes of evidence becoming completely unreliable.
- thewebguyd 4mo agoI suspect so. Tbh, I'm surprised it hasn't happened already with the amount of processing that cell phones do on photos, with generative fill/expand/perspective change, etc. We are quickly going to reach a point where any photo or video taken on a smartphone is inadmissible by default.
- pjc50 4mo agoThere's a big gap between "theoretically unreliable" and courts actually recognizing that, unfortunately. Lots of forensics is much more dubious than CSI would have you believe.
- thatguy0900 4mo agoMy girlfriends been having me watch law and order svu with her and to be honest it doesn't really even seem trustworthy with how they want to present it. The psychologist guy especially will come up with some wildly detailed assertions about who the criminal is based on nothing
- assimpleaspossi 4mo agoAre we really going to go to a fictional TV show now?
- CDRdude 4mo agoIf a fictional-but-popular TV show treats some kinds of evidence as more reliable than they really are, juries may be primed to believe in the kind of thing the TV show presents as legitimate.
- kalleboo 4mo agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSI_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSI_effect
- altmanaltman 4mo agoSure but lawyers would know that and ensure evidence doesn't get presented that way right? There are also a lot of other biases that lawyers have to navigate through. Humans are flawed but that doesn't mean everyone in the jury thinks TV is real.
- cwillu 4mo ago“Lots of forensics is much more dubious than CSI would have you believe.” was what was being replied to.
- victorbjorklund 4mo agoIt affects the jury. If the jury watches tv shows that builds the expectation that there is always a bunch of ballistics evidence etc and that it is always fool proof then they will 1) distrust when there isn’t that type of evidence (but enough other evidence) and 2) they will overvalue the evidence when it exists
- bitwize 4mo agoIt affects everybody. I've heard of people arrested in rather more oppressive regimes expecting to be Miranda'd because it's what they know from American cop shows and they thought it was broadly applicable everywhere.
- Broken_Hippo 4mo agoThere is a reason such shows are labeled "copaganda" - it affect people's perception of police and their procedures. It makes the dubious seem less dubious and more believable. I very highly doubt any jury is made aware of the rate of error or unreliability of the this stuff.
- slumberlust 4mo agoSure you aren't watching Psych?
- RobotToaster 4mo ago15 years ago an Israeli company was able to manufacture fake DNA evidence https://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/18/science/18dna.html https://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/18/science/18dna.html
- yardstick 4mo agoThere used to be - probably still are - cameras that would digitally sign all their images. Used in crime scenes? Maybe we will end up seeing wider adoption of this, despite the privacy implications. Hackers attention then will focus (once again) on the certificate supply chain and crypto hardware.
- aorloff 4mo agoI imagine in this age of blockchains you could embed into a media file a signature that proved it was no older than the timestamp of when it occurred, the digital equivalent of a hostage-proof-of-life photo with a recent newspaper But I don't know of a cryptographic mechanism to ensure that a digital image is not more recent than a particular time
- catlikesshrimp 4mo agoInteresting, There aren't any newspapers left in my country, neither printed nor not printed. The closest you can find is the weekly advertising booklet here and there. Which is irrelevant now because a computer can either stich new content to an old picture, or entirely producing a custom picture. That would be a use case for a block chain. But I still don't understand how you are securing the integrity of the validity of the certificate stating the authenticity of the media. I only understand you are stamping media with a "at least as old as [timestamp]
- 3eb7988a1663 4mo agoIf you want to prove that "happened at or after this timestamp" you can use a randomness beacon. NIST[0] and others publish a random number every N minutes. Embed that (or a combination) of those seeds to prove that you observed this value. This does not work for the harder problem of proving an event happened before a timestamp. [0] https://csrc.nist.gov/projects/interoperable-randomness-beacons https://csrc.nist.gov/projects/interoperable-randomness-beac...
- aorloff 4mo ago
- asdff 4mo agoYou should see what people were capable of in the darkroom, let alone before all this. You could always manipulate imagery ever since there was imagery to manipulate.
- olyjohn 4mo agoBig difference between that and writing an AI prompt.
- asdff 4mo agoNot really. End result is the same: manipulated image.
- pyth0 4mo agoAre we really pretending like the effort to do something doesn't affect how often that thing occurs?
- asdff 4mo agoAre we acting like that was ever a limiting factor towards disseminating propaganda in the analog age?
- pyth0 4mo agoNo obviously not. But this is silly framing because there are so many things we do because it increases the effort for bad actors to do bad things. We close and lock our doors not because it prevents break-ins, but because that is a barrier that makes breaking in more inconvenient.
- deleted 4mo ago[deleted]
- asdff 4mo agoWe close and lock our doors to keep people undergoing psychosis out. Burglars are not stopped by locks.
- testing22321 4mo agoI’m still shocked we have not seen an extremely convincing AI video of a famous person or world leader announcing something huge like UBI or WW3 or aliens. Surely it’s just a matter of time.
- deleted 4mo ago[deleted]
- pjc50 4mo agoOh, I assumed they were already out there in the sea of slop like the Iran Lego propaganda tiktoks.
- defrost 4mo agoThey're out there, recommending scam investments / crypto coins more often than major world events. Meta, for one, is keen to bury such things and avoid responsibility for ad contents: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-04-17/andrew-forrest-battles-meta-over-fake-ads/106574806 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2026-04-17/andrew-forrest-battle...
- Lammy 4mo agoThe end-game is that people will willingly surveil themselves 24/7 on behalf of The System because that will be the only way to prove what they didn't do.
- LtWorf 4mo agoAh yes training the AI with more data to represent me even more accurately.
- happymellon 4mo agoSome people still believe in polygraphs.
- tim333 4mo agoIt'll no doubt shift the probabilities but people have always lied and faked data. With video coming out of Ukraine there are a lot of fake things but beyond AI glitches you can check who the source is, if it correlates with known events and so on.