6 ms·

Show HN: Fata – Spaced repetition to fight skill rot from AI coding

124 points by djoume 4mo ago

Hi HN, I'm Djoumé. I've been a developer for over 20 years, and like a lot of you I've been coding almost exclusively through an agent in the past few months. It's been amazing to vibe code prototypes in any stack, but when it comes to building something reliable/scalable, I couldn't effectively guide the agent unless I knew the technology. And the scariest part is that I'm seeing a lot of my technical skills decreasing due to AI coding. Reflecting on my journey, I also worry about how the new "AI native" generation of software developer is going to acquire technical depth. So I built fata.dev: short daily spaced-repetition sessions for programming skills (Rust, CSS, React, Python, TypeScript, Architecture). You can try it in the browser with no signup: https://fata.app/courses https://fata.app/courses It's an offline-first mobile app built with Capacitor, RxDB and Firebase. The first courses were painfully written by hand, but most content is now AI-generated. It takes about 3000 LLM calls to generate a course, and every code samples goes through compilation, linting, unit testing, AI and a final manual review. Would very much appreciate any feedback on the product & website, what works and what could be better. Thanks!

deleted 4mo ago
[deleted]
bluefirebrand 4mo ago
The copy on your website is kind of confusing imo > fata builds the full-stack fundamentals to lead a coding agent through frontend, backend, and the technical design that holds up in production. "Fata builds" sounds like it does the work, not like it trains you how to do the work. With how many "AI does the work for you" promises out there, it's confusing terminology Anyways best of luck I suppose. I would rather run a drill press through my hand than use AI agents to write code for me, so I'm not your target audience
- djoume 4mo ago
  Thanks for the feedback, much appreciated, will fix the copy.
fragmede 4mo ago
How's your assembler? Run ar by hand lately?
- djoume 4mo ago
  Does not happen often but now and then my basic x86/arm asm skills have been helpful to debug or just understand at a deeper level how something works.
- jubilanti 4mo ago
  If you're trying to imply that knowing fundamentals of programming is now as obsolete as knowing fundamentals of assembler: this is a dumb thought-terminating cliche that adds nothing to the discussion and I'm sick of seeing it constantly in these threads.
  - dsffdfsdds 4mo ago
    React, python and Rust are not the "fundamentals of programming". Those are highly specific ephemeral instantiations of the more general knowledge you seem to be alluding to. They are the new COBOLs. We are not there yet, but the writing is on the wall pretty clearly if you ask me. Regular programming languages will indeed be as useful as knowing assembler in a couple of years, which is to say, pretty useful, but for many not necessary (anymore). The main point is that these things are implementation details like assembler. Very interesting in and of themselves especially if you are on the spectrum and occassionally need to be looked at, but the knowledge is instrumental at best and useless baggage at worst. Validation is what matters. Code is useless cruft. If you can replace it all with "348348-23439 CALL(X(DDD)D)" somehow, that's great, as long as it works. I don't know why people get sentimental about wrangling syntax. We're in automation, we've been doing it to other people. We're now doing it to ourselves. You see this point often because it is blatantly obvious for anyone that didn't build their identity around proficient wrangling of specific families of syntax. I suspect the era of LLMs coding in "our languages" is a temporary abberation anyway. It's not necessary at all and in fact actively hampering their effectiveness. I'd say enjoy it while it lasts.
  - kakacik 4mo ago
deleted 4mo ago
[deleted]
effjy 4mo ago
[flagged]
royal__ 4mo ago
I can understand that you want to make money from this, but hiding significant amounts of content behind 13 dollars a month feels a bit much. Especially when you acknowledge that most of that content is LLM generated. It's not just the advanced courses, it looks like it's pretty much all of them Cool app though! I love the idea of coding Duolingo. But I think the price is going to turn most people off. Another problem I see is that it's not really clear how this is that much different from other similar apps out there.
- djoume 4mo ago
  Thanks for the feedback. What similar app are you thinking of?
  - royal__ 4mo ago
    Codecademy, Mimo, Enki. I'm not going to act like I know a lot about other options, and you do say that fata hits on more advanced topics which these may not. I do think you have a cool niche here that isn't being covered, maybe your landing page should include more information about the Duolingo-esque features? I just know that pulls me in a lot.
    - royal__ 4mo ago
      For the record, btw, id DID download your app and I am going to spend some time using it. Other commenters here are talking about how spaced repetition isn't what's important, which is true in the same sense that you can't just use Duolingo to learn a language. But that doesn't make it useless.
      - djoume 4mo ago
        Completely agree and I tried to avoid the Duolingo approach which optimizes for "engagement" over learning. I would love to hear any feedback you have after using the app for a bit: djoume [at] fata.dev
Falimonda 4mo ago
If you need to use an agent then you might as well just work SRS into your harness using something like https://srs.voxos.ai/ https://srs.voxos.ai/
AmblingAvocado 4mo ago
Coming at this as someone who has stepped away from coding more than once for multiple-year long stints due to various career choices - I think the concern of "skill rot" is overblown. I stopped writing C++ professionally in the early 2010's. I came back to it in the early 2020's and it was extremely easy to pick up. Less like riding a bike, more like driving a car. The car got better over the last 10 years, but it still takes a bit of time to fully meld with the machine. The skills didn't rot, they just fell behind, and catching up wasn't a big deal. I think the only "skill rot" people are facing today when coding by hand vs by agent is that you know you're doing something the hard way when you know there is another path of least resistance available - and that creates internal resistance to doing it the hard way. It's a mental block, not skill rot. The one area I do find myself questioning is that my low level tech skills aren't growing - I'm building bigger projects that do more stuff across more areas, and as a result I'm touching lots of new technologies from a birds eye view and directing the agents to do stuff with them. I'm not personally gaining that experience of using those technologies, whereas if I were doing things the old way I would be deep in the weeds and have to know them in depth. But if I were doing things the old way I probably wouldn't be building such ambitious projects as a solo dev either. IMO it's more like digging out the foundation with shovels vs using an excavator. You don't lose the shoveling skill by using the excavator, but you sure feel like a chump using a shovel when there's an excavator parked and ready next to the job site.
- deleted 4mo ago
  [deleted]
- axus 4mo ago
  Maybe it only applies to people at the top of their game; pro atheletes and musicians need regular practice, the rest of us can use most of our skills without that.
- stbtrax 4mo ago
  do you have any tips or strategies on picking up c++ after a long break?
  - 4mo ago
fabled-out 4mo ago
This is very, very cool! Super impressed by what you've built. As a non-programmer who is now doing a lot of vibe coding for myself these days (and feeling very scared about which of my vibe coded things will just randomly break one day haha...) I feel like what I'm missing isn't necessary language syntax skills, but rather the higher-level planning/organization/architecture capabilities that a seasoned software engineer acquires over years of seeing what scales vs. breaks in the real world. Is there anything you would recommend I learn to start acquiring that knowledge (aka. the higher level knowledge a "vibe-coder" who doesn't manually code by hand would need)? I'll try out your clean architecture course, but would love to see more along those lines :) Obviously I know nothing will replace real world SWE experience, but anything that could plug that gap even a tiny bit would be helpful and is something I'm willing to invest in.
- djoume 4mo ago
  Thank you. Try out this course and let me know what you think https://fata.app/courses/archClean https://fata.app/courses/archClean For me I found that I learn best when I have a concrete use case.
- soperj 4mo ago
  Have you tried to understand the code that's being produced? That'll go a long ways to actually helping your vibe coded thing not break, and also will make it easier to change things in ways that you actually want changed instead of throwing it into the black box again hoping for the best.
- Atotalnoob 4mo ago
  You can change the output style of your AI agents, have them use a more learning and “tutor” style to improve your skills. The coach could look at transcripts of old sessions and come up with real lessons for you to improve. Ask for book or article recommendations.
mrmartineau 4mo ago
This is super cool and definitely something I can relate to. In fact, I recently built Reps, a daily coding puzzle, to help fight “skill rot” as you say. Try it out at https://reps.zander.wtf https://reps.zander.wtf and let me know what you think.
- djoume 4mo ago
  Very nice! I went with a different approach so that 1) I could make it usable on a phone and 2) It could work with any programming language/framework
dvt 4mo ago
Engineering has never been, nor will it ever be, about "repetition" or "memorization." This is a relatively new fable invented by those that have participated in ritualistic interview hazing. Imo, there are, broadly speaking, two types of engineers: computer scientists, and programmers. Computer scientists do science. The end result is a new algorithm or theorem, and they work with lots of math, proof systems, formal languages, and so on. This is a profoundly creative and collaborative process. Programmers build products for end-users. The end result is the user experience, the bottom line, stars on Github, or whatever. This is also a process that constantly needs feedback, from teammates and from clients. These are broad categories and sometimes they overlap: an operating system or database engineer might do a bit of both, depending on the hardware targeted or on various constraints. Sometimes you need to be a bit clever to get to your product goal. This cleverness has nothing to do with memorizing keywords or solving interview gotcha questions. This cleverness can't be augmented by AI, and it can't be rotted by AI: it's something that's innate to people. Their internal curiosity just happens to manifest in the context of engineering because they love the craft. In many ways, it's like reading a book. You can't "make someone" enjoy reading, some people are just boring and uncurious. In many ways, I feel that people that are threatened by AI are like this. AI is an incredible tool, but it feels like an autistic junior engineer. Sure, it might have memorized more library names or more syntax or can reference some little-known fact, but it fails to understand basic data flow. It doesn't grasp ergonomics, ease of use, etc., etc. A tool like fata is great if you want to be an AI, but it won't turn you into a good engineer.
- djoume 4mo ago
  Thanks for taking the time to comment. I agree that people have tendencies towards certain interests, I can't remember a time where I wasn't interested about computers, even long before I had access to one. That being said, people are also inspired by other people or by products, and there are ways to make the learning more effective. No tools is going to turn you into a good engineer, fata makes it easier to practice regularly and it's that practice that will make you improve your skills
  - deleted 4mo ago
    [deleted]
sungjinwo0 4mo ago
[flagged]
jraph 4mo ago
I can envision a way or two of avoiding AI skill rot... which could involve just doing the work by yourself actually xD I hope you factor in the time you spend doing that spaced repetition thing when you evaluate your AI productivity boost...
- djoume 4mo ago
  I do ~10 minutes per day, wouldn't really make a difference in my AI productivity boost calculation (which 10-20% boost BTW)
jwpapi 4mo ago
Are you guys for real? A mobile app? Who in the world who’s interested in this would do it on a mobile app.
- djoume 4mo ago
  People often do their 10 minutes of daily fata.dev during their commute where mobile/offline access is ideal. The UX is optimized for mobile but you can also do it on your computer, it's a progressive web app that is installable as a desktop app: https://fata.app https://fata.app
  - jwpapi 4mo ago
    I don’t think HN is the right place to post this and also I don’t think the title/slogin as fitting. This might be helpful to beginners, but nobody who’s scared of skill rot, will use this on a mobile app. Honestly I think there is no benefit in any mobile coding app at all. It makes coding seem way more tedious than it is. I would rather recommend a book, laptop or youtube video than to do coding tasks on a phone keyboard.
LowLevelKernel 4mo ago
Great lessons
- djoume 4mo ago
  Thank you
postalrat 4mo ago
Still building my new "approve" button skill.
deleted 4mo ago
[deleted]
anythingworks 4mo ago
> 10000+ developers on this this seems false given this just launched?
- djoume 4mo ago
  This is true. A first version of the app was launched 2 years ago.(Android only, manually created courses, webdev only).
mantlemd 4mo ago
[flagged]
roshiya 4mo ago
[dead]
nutifafa 4mo ago
at this point building is not the challenge fighting bugs and vulnerabilities is the challenge. try getdebug.dev it has a free cli tools to find, fix and enable you ship your code without someone taking advantage of it.
- nutifafa 4mo ago
  it has the guide at https://github.com/getdebug-ai/cli https://github.com/getdebug-ai/cli
Pranavsingh431 4mo ago
[dead]
jules_sarah088 3mo ago
[flagged]
hugorus87 3mo ago
[flagged]

124 points by djoume 4mo ago

deleted 4mo ago

[deleted]

bluefirebrand 4mo ago

The copy on your website is kind of confusing imo > fata builds the full-stack fundamentals to lead a coding agent through frontend, backend, and the technical design that holds up in production. "Fata builds" sounds like it does the work, not like it trains you how to do the work. With how many "AI does the work for you" promises out there, it's confusing terminology Anyways best of luck I suppose. I would rather run a drill press through my hand than use AI agents to write code for me, so I'm not your target audience

djoume 4mo ago
Thanks for the feedback, much appreciated, will fix the copy.

fragmede 4mo ago

How's your assembler? Run ar by hand lately?

djoume 4mo ago
Does not happen often but now and then my basic x86/arm asm skills have been helpful to debug or just understand at a deeper level how something works.
jubilanti 4mo ago
If you're trying to imply that knowing fundamentals of programming is now as obsolete as knowing fundamentals of assembler: this is a dumb thought-terminating cliche that adds nothing to the discussion and I'm sick of seeing it constantly in these threads.
- dsffdfsdds 4mo ago
  React, python and Rust are not the "fundamentals of programming". Those are highly specific ephemeral instantiations of the more general knowledge you seem to be alluding to. They are the new COBOLs. We are not there yet, but the writing is on the wall pretty clearly if you ask me. Regular programming languages will indeed be as useful as knowing assembler in a couple of years, which is to say, pretty useful, but for many not necessary (anymore). The main point is that these things are implementation details like assembler. Very interesting in and of themselves especially if you are on the spectrum and occassionally need to be looked at, but the knowledge is instrumental at best and useless baggage at worst. Validation is what matters. Code is useless cruft. If you can replace it all with "348348-23439 CALL(X(DDD)D)" somehow, that's great, as long as it works. I don't know why people get sentimental about wrangling syntax. We're in automation, we've been doing it to other people. We're now doing it to ourselves. You see this point often because it is blatantly obvious for anyone that didn't build their identity around proficient wrangling of specific families of syntax. I suspect the era of LLMs coding in "our languages" is a temporary abberation anyway. It's not necessary at all and in fact actively hampering their effectiveness. I'd say enjoy it while it lasts.
- kakacik 4mo ago

deleted 4mo ago

[deleted]

effjy 4mo ago

[flagged]

royal__ 4mo ago

I can understand that you want to make money from this, but hiding significant amounts of content behind 13 dollars a month feels a bit much. Especially when you acknowledge that most of that content is LLM generated. It's not just the advanced courses, it looks like it's pretty much all of them Cool app though! I love the idea of coding Duolingo. But I think the price is going to turn most people off. Another problem I see is that it's not really clear how this is that much different from other similar apps out there.

djoume 4mo ago
Thanks for the feedback. What similar app are you thinking of?
- royal__ 4mo ago
  Codecademy, Mimo, Enki. I'm not going to act like I know a lot about other options, and you do say that fata hits on more advanced topics which these may not. I do think you have a cool niche here that isn't being covered, maybe your landing page should include more information about the Duolingo-esque features? I just know that pulls me in a lot.
  - royal__ 4mo ago
    For the record, btw, id DID download your app and I am going to spend some time using it. Other commenters here are talking about how spaced repetition isn't what's important, which is true in the same sense that you can't just use Duolingo to learn a language. But that doesn't make it useless.
    - djoume 4mo ago
      Completely agree and I tried to avoid the Duolingo approach which optimizes for "engagement" over learning. I would love to hear any feedback you have after using the app for a bit: djoume [at] fata.dev

Falimonda 4mo ago

If you need to use an agent then you might as well just work SRS into your harness using something like https://srs.voxos.ai/ https://srs.voxos.ai/

AmblingAvocado 4mo ago

Coming at this as someone who has stepped away from coding more than once for multiple-year long stints due to various career choices - I think the concern of "skill rot" is overblown. I stopped writing C++ professionally in the early 2010's. I came back to it in the early 2020's and it was extremely easy to pick up. Less like riding a bike, more like driving a car. The car got better over the last 10 years, but it still takes a bit of time to fully meld with the machine. The skills didn't rot, they just fell behind, and catching up wasn't a big deal. I think the only "skill rot" people are facing today when coding by hand vs by agent is that you know you're doing something the hard way when you know there is another path of least resistance available - and that creates internal resistance to doing it the hard way. It's a mental block, not skill rot. The one area I do find myself questioning is that my low level tech skills aren't growing - I'm building bigger projects that do more stuff across more areas, and as a result I'm touching lots of new technologies from a birds eye view and directing the agents to do stuff with them. I'm not personally gaining that experience of using those technologies, whereas if I were doing things the old way I would be deep in the weeds and have to know them in depth. But if I were doing things the old way I probably wouldn't be building such ambitious projects as a solo dev either. IMO it's more like digging out the foundation with shovels vs using an excavator. You don't lose the shoveling skill by using the excavator, but you sure feel like a chump using a shovel when there's an excavator parked and ready next to the job site.

deleted 4mo ago
[deleted]
axus 4mo ago
Maybe it only applies to people at the top of their game; pro atheletes and musicians need regular practice, the rest of us can use most of our skills without that.
stbtrax 4mo ago
do you have any tips or strategies on picking up c++ after a long break?
- 4mo ago

fabled-out 4mo ago

This is very, very cool! Super impressed by what you've built. As a non-programmer who is now doing a lot of vibe coding for myself these days (and feeling very scared about which of my vibe coded things will just randomly break one day haha...) I feel like what I'm missing isn't necessary language syntax skills, but rather the higher-level planning/organization/architecture capabilities that a seasoned software engineer acquires over years of seeing what scales vs. breaks in the real world. Is there anything you would recommend I learn to start acquiring that knowledge (aka. the higher level knowledge a "vibe-coder" who doesn't manually code by hand would need)? I'll try out your clean architecture course, but would love to see more along those lines :) Obviously I know nothing will replace real world SWE experience, but anything that could plug that gap even a tiny bit would be helpful and is something I'm willing to invest in.

djoume 4mo ago
Thank you. Try out this course and let me know what you think https://fata.app/courses/archClean https://fata.app/courses/archClean For me I found that I learn best when I have a concrete use case.
soperj 4mo ago
Have you tried to understand the code that's being produced? That'll go a long ways to actually helping your vibe coded thing not break, and also will make it easier to change things in ways that you actually want changed instead of throwing it into the black box again hoping for the best.
Atotalnoob 4mo ago
You can change the output style of your AI agents, have them use a more learning and “tutor” style to improve your skills. The coach could look at transcripts of old sessions and come up with real lessons for you to improve. Ask for book or article recommendations.

mrmartineau 4mo ago

This is super cool and definitely something I can relate to. In fact, I recently built Reps, a daily coding puzzle, to help fight “skill rot” as you say. Try it out at https://reps.zander.wtf https://reps.zander.wtf and let me know what you think.

djoume 4mo ago
Very nice! I went with a different approach so that 1) I could make it usable on a phone and 2) It could work with any programming language/framework

dvt 4mo ago

Engineering has never been, nor will it ever be, about "repetition" or "memorization." This is a relatively new fable invented by those that have participated in ritualistic interview hazing. Imo, there are, broadly speaking, two types of engineers: computer scientists, and programmers. Computer scientists do science. The end result is a new algorithm or theorem, and they work with lots of math, proof systems, formal languages, and so on. This is a profoundly creative and collaborative process. Programmers build products for end-users. The end result is the user experience, the bottom line, stars on Github, or whatever. This is also a process that constantly needs feedback, from teammates and from clients. These are broad categories and sometimes they overlap: an operating system or database engineer might do a bit of both, depending on the hardware targeted or on various constraints. Sometimes you need to be a bit clever to get to your product goal. This cleverness has nothing to do with memorizing keywords or solving interview gotcha questions. This cleverness can't be augmented by AI, and it can't be rotted by AI: it's something that's innate to people. Their internal curiosity just happens to manifest in the context of engineering because they love the craft. In many ways, it's like reading a book. You can't "make someone" enjoy reading, some people are just boring and uncurious. In many ways, I feel that people that are threatened by AI are like this. AI is an incredible tool, but it feels like an autistic junior engineer. Sure, it might have memorized more library names or more syntax or can reference some little-known fact, but it fails to understand basic data flow. It doesn't grasp ergonomics, ease of use, etc., etc. A tool like fata is great if you want to be an AI, but it won't turn you into a good engineer.

djoume 4mo ago
Thanks for taking the time to comment. I agree that people have tendencies towards certain interests, I can't remember a time where I wasn't interested about computers, even long before I had access to one. That being said, people are also inspired by other people or by products, and there are ways to make the learning more effective. No tools is going to turn you into a good engineer, fata makes it easier to practice regularly and it's that practice that will make you improve your skills
- deleted 4mo ago
  [deleted]

sungjinwo0 4mo ago

[flagged]

jraph 4mo ago

I can envision a way or two of avoiding AI skill rot... which could involve just doing the work by yourself actually xD I hope you factor in the time you spend doing that spaced repetition thing when you evaluate your AI productivity boost...

djoume 4mo ago
I do ~10 minutes per day, wouldn't really make a difference in my AI productivity boost calculation (which 10-20% boost BTW)

jwpapi 4mo ago

Are you guys for real? A mobile app? Who in the world who’s interested in this would do it on a mobile app.

djoume 4mo ago
People often do their 10 minutes of daily fata.dev during their commute where mobile/offline access is ideal. The UX is optimized for mobile but you can also do it on your computer, it's a progressive web app that is installable as a desktop app: https://fata.app https://fata.app
- jwpapi 4mo ago
  I don’t think HN is the right place to post this and also I don’t think the title/slogin as fitting. This might be helpful to beginners, but nobody who’s scared of skill rot, will use this on a mobile app. Honestly I think there is no benefit in any mobile coding app at all. It makes coding seem way more tedious than it is. I would rather recommend a book, laptop or youtube video than to do coding tasks on a phone keyboard.

LowLevelKernel 4mo ago

Great lessons

djoume 4mo ago
Thank you

postalrat 4mo ago

Still building my new "approve" button skill.

deleted 4mo ago

[deleted]

anythingworks 4mo ago

> 10000+ developers on this this seems false given this just launched?

djoume 4mo ago
This is true. A first version of the app was launched 2 years ago.(Android only, manually created courses, webdev only).

mantlemd 4mo ago

[flagged]

roshiya 4mo ago

[dead]

nutifafa 4mo ago

at this point building is not the challenge fighting bugs and vulnerabilities is the challenge. try getdebug.dev it has a free cli tools to find, fix and enable you ship your code without someone taking advantage of it.

nutifafa 4mo ago
it has the guide at https://github.com/getdebug-ai/cli https://github.com/getdebug-ai/cli

Pranavsingh431 4mo ago

[dead]

jules_sarah088 3mo ago

[flagged]

hugorus87 3mo ago

[flagged]