9 ms·

> ...then we can't rurn around and demand that it also isn't and that we should have right to infinitely ask for additional copies - however cheap it might be t

by sami36 14y ago

> ...then we can't rurn around and demand that it also isn't and that we should have right to infinitely ask for additional copies - however cheap it might be to create them. oh Yes, We can. The reason we're entitled to it is the fact that DRM stands in the way of us customers backing up our purchases. If my eBook were in a format devoid of DRM & I could back it up by saving it in Droppbox or my external hard drive, then your argument would carry some weight.

CrossCircuit 14y ago
I think your point here is valid - if backup options are restricted via DRM, then the company does have at the least a moral obligation to provide re-downloads. Companies like Barnes and Noble that probably have very thin margins would do well to enact business practices that gain them long-term customers.
pilif 14y ago
To stay with the real world analogy: you also can't back up your book. You have that one copy and once it breaks, you are out of luck and have to buy a new one. I compare the ebook readers as a physical object with the books (also physical objects). If I can read books on that device even when my credit card has expired or other things have disabled my account, then IMHO the parity to the real world exists: I have that one physical object which represents the content on it. If I lose it and don't have my account any more, well, too bad. Of course, by centralizing many books to one physical object, you risk losing much more content as you lose that physical object. But the advantage is that, in case it breaks, it can be repaired (which might be impossible with a physical book) Now. I know for a fact that this is how Kindle works: even if your account is gone, your books stay on your Kindle and you can continue to read them. I would assume it works the same for B&N in this case. Being able to infinitely redownload the books is a nice convenience that goes far beyond what a physical book would allow. Also, I haven't tried it, but these DRMed books are just files after all. It might be possible to back them up and later read them on the same device (again the physical book analogy) even if the account has been terminated.
- chrischen 14y ago
  I can photocopy or scan every page. It may not be easy, but it's doable, and the publisher does not have technology that actively prevents me from doing this.
  - mcpherrinm 14y ago
    You can photocopy every page of your ebook too. Probably even easier to accomplish!
    - jlgreco 14y ago
      Unless I am mistaken, that would/could be legally considered circumventing DRM, and would therefore be technically illegal despite fair use (which would permit you to photocopy the print book legally).
      - edanm 14y ago
        I'm not sure there's a difference in photocopying an entire book and doing the same to a DRM book. Do you know specifically that there is a difference?
        galadriel 14y ago
        One is a federal felony, other is a fair use. EDIT: Specifically, it is against the law to break DRM (unless for few cases outlined by library of Congress), and the law as written makes no exceptions for fair use. The courts have also held in positive that it was Congress intend to make breaking DRM a crime even if there is a fair use case.
        Elepsis 14y ago
        ... Except that's wrong. It's not fair use to photocopy an entire book and it never has been. Let's not lose sight of the actual laws in our blind rage against DRM.
daeken 14y ago
You can put the DRMed files on Dropbox and then copy them to your Nook. This isn't a DRM issue, just dumb business practices.
- jeffool 14y ago
  While I can't speak to the DRM issues here, I can say that it's definitely silly to me. Valve lets me download games and films for gigs as much as I like. The idea that I could do that with ebooks? Why, I could rack up... Megabytes of bandwidth for them! Maybe even a Gigabyte! Okay, maybe that's a bit assholish of me to phrase it that way, but it really does seem like an odd decision to me as a user.
  - pilif 14y ago
    > Valve lets me download games and films for gigs as much as I like only if you have a valid account with them. Which is the exact issue the original article was complaining about. Now, a Steam account stays valid even after the credit card has expired, but if you lose that account for whatever other reason, all your content is gone. Which is worse than many ebook readers because they will allow you to continue to access your content even once the account is gone. Steam OTOH doesn't. No account? No login. No login? No content (their offline mode is too unreliable to be called that).
    - Profess 14y ago
      How exactly do you lose an online account?
      - Tyr42 14y ago
        PayPal backs out of a transaction and locks your account after you try and pay steam with it. Steam say, hey, you didn't pay us, we're locking your account and you lose all your games that you've bought so far. True story, happened to my brother. Took hours on the phone to sort out. Still never using paypal for anything like that again.

by sami36 14y ago

CrossCircuit 14y ago

I think your point here is valid - if backup options are restricted via DRM, then the company does have at the least a moral obligation to provide re-downloads. Companies like Barnes and Noble that probably have very thin margins would do well to enact business practices that gain them long-term customers.

pilif 14y ago

To stay with the real world analogy: you also can't back up your book. You have that one copy and once it breaks, you are out of luck and have to buy a new one. I compare the ebook readers as a physical object with the books (also physical objects). If I can read books on that device even when my credit card has expired or other things have disabled my account, then IMHO the parity to the real world exists: I have that one physical object which represents the content on it. If I lose it and don't have my account any more, well, too bad. Of course, by centralizing many books to one physical object, you risk losing much more content as you lose that physical object. But the advantage is that, in case it breaks, it can be repaired (which might be impossible with a physical book) Now. I know for a fact that this is how Kindle works: even if your account is gone, your books stay on your Kindle and you can continue to read them. I would assume it works the same for B&N in this case. Being able to infinitely redownload the books is a nice convenience that goes far beyond what a physical book would allow. Also, I haven't tried it, but these DRMed books are just files after all. It might be possible to back them up and later read them on the same device (again the physical book analogy) even if the account has been terminated.

chrischen 14y ago
I can photocopy or scan every page. It may not be easy, but it's doable, and the publisher does not have technology that actively prevents me from doing this.
- mcpherrinm 14y ago
  You can photocopy every page of your ebook too. Probably even easier to accomplish!
  - jlgreco 14y ago
    Unless I am mistaken, that would/could be legally considered circumventing DRM, and would therefore be technically illegal despite fair use (which would permit you to photocopy the print book legally).
    - edanm 14y ago
      I'm not sure there's a difference in photocopying an entire book and doing the same to a DRM book. Do you know specifically that there is a difference?
      - galadriel 14y ago
        One is a federal felony, other is a fair use. EDIT: Specifically, it is against the law to break DRM (unless for few cases outlined by library of Congress), and the law as written makes no exceptions for fair use. The courts have also held in positive that it was Congress intend to make breaking DRM a crime even if there is a fair use case.
        Elepsis 14y ago
        ... Except that's wrong. It's not fair use to photocopy an entire book and it never has been. Let's not lose sight of the actual laws in our blind rage against DRM.

daeken 14y ago

You can put the DRMed files on Dropbox and then copy them to your Nook. This isn't a DRM issue, just dumb business practices.

jeffool 14y ago
While I can't speak to the DRM issues here, I can say that it's definitely silly to me. Valve lets me download games and films for gigs as much as I like. The idea that I could do that with ebooks? Why, I could rack up... Megabytes of bandwidth for them! Maybe even a Gigabyte! Okay, maybe that's a bit assholish of me to phrase it that way, but it really does seem like an odd decision to me as a user.
- pilif 14y ago
  > Valve lets me download games and films for gigs as much as I like only if you have a valid account with them. Which is the exact issue the original article was complaining about. Now, a Steam account stays valid even after the credit card has expired, but if you lose that account for whatever other reason, all your content is gone. Which is worse than many ebook readers because they will allow you to continue to access your content even once the account is gone. Steam OTOH doesn't. No account? No login. No login? No content (their offline mode is too unreliable to be called that).
  - Profess 14y ago
    How exactly do you lose an online account?
    - Tyr42 14y ago
      PayPal backs out of a transaction and locks your account after you try and pay steam with it. Steam say, hey, you didn't pay us, we're locking your account and you lose all your games that you've bought so far. True story, happened to my brother. Took hours on the phone to sort out. Still never using paypal for anything like that again.