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> Yep, police can simply ask anyone for their passwords and if you don't give it up they can put you in jail. This is precisely the reason why I don't want to
by paulgdp 4mo ago
> Yep, police can simply ask anyone for their passwords and if you don't give it up they can put you in jail.
This is precisely the reason why I don't want to visit the US at the moment.
The USA immigration officers can ask me to forfeit my phone's password and look at all my photos, documents, messages, call logs etc, WITHOUT SUSPICION.
Some of that data can even stay on their servers for decades, and who knows if it ends up on a CIA/NSA server.
Of course, I can always refuse, but non-cooperation with CBP means immediate denial of entry and risks of lifelong headaches with future immigration checks.
- shevy-java 4mo agoIndeed, but the UK is in many ways words. At the least in the USA, often the constitution is upheld (give or take); in the UK you often don't even have such fundamental rights. The UK at present fits more to Russia than, e. g. European countries.
- gizajob 4mo agoYou’re tripping m8.
- josephg 4mo ago> At the least in the USA, often the constitution is upheld Some of ICE’s detainees may have different opinions on that point. The UK may endow her citizens with fewer rights. But I have a lot more trust in British due process. British civil servants seem much less … capricious than Americans. I was almost denied entry to Hawaii once because I told the CBP agent I didn’t have any cash on me. (My money is in a bank account, obviously). He went on a big rant about how expensive Hawaii is. I think he was worried I’d end up homeless. (Even though my visit to hang out with my then employer.) Over the years I’ve heard so many stories from other Australian friends about wild and unfortunate encounters with US police and officials. By comparison, the British government seems far more civilised. If something happened while visiting the UK, I have much more confidence that everything would be resolved in a fair and reasonable manner.
- somewhatgoated 4mo agoI had the same experience visiting the US - this was 15 years ago so I imagine it’s much worse now. Got subjected to hour long questioning because I only had a little cash on me and told them truthfully that I would travel the country so I didn’t have one place to stay for the entirety of the trip (because I was TRAVELLING). I since learned that my first mistake was to tell them the truth but alas. After asking me about every single detail of my life they eventually let me in. It’s a pity, such a great country being ruined by kleptocrats.
- mikrotikker 4mo agoI mean, the argument is that ICE detainees are not citizens and thus don't get the protection, similar to foreigners engaging with CBP at the border
- me-vs-cat 4mo agoHave you looked at which sections of the constitution say "citizen" and which say "person"?
- mikrotikker 4mo agoI didn't say I agreed with the argument, but it does seem to be interpretable like the Bible.
- deleted 4mo ago[deleted]
- cmxch 4mo ago> By comparison, the British government seems far more civilised Henry Nowak would disagree.
- JdeBP 4mo agoNot having a written constitution is not the same as not having rights in everyday practice.
- BLKNSLVR 4mo agoIt would seem that having a written constitution isn't the bulwark many thought it was.
- inglor_cz 4mo agoIf you read the Soviet constitution, it is remarkably liberal and progressive. Only it had no teeth and whatever Stalin or Brezhnev wanted, the KGB would do.
- gizajob 4mo agoThis confuses so many people - the Uk has a series of constitutions and a very strong and historical legal basis for rights. It’s not strictly codified in one purposely written document but it does exist. And it’s a mistake to say if there’s no constitution then you have no fundamental rights. The UKs system is a hodgepodge but so is having a written constitution that can be regularly amended or otherwise ignored.
- ElFitz 4mo agoI still remember learning about habeas corpus. And loved Terry Pratchett’s take on it.
- diordiderot 4mo agoLike trial by jury... Oh wait. Going this year Or freedom of protest... Er ehm, that was three years ago Well at least no Double jeopardy... until 2003 Right to silence! Oh no not that one either Shrugs and scratches head
- gizajob 4mo agoI’m not really defending the system, just making the point about a form of constitution existing. Even if the things you mention were nailed down in a constitution, that constitution could be amended to undo them, same as every other form of law.
- ben_w 4mo agoUK has (for now) the Human Rights Act and is a (for now) subject to the jurisdiction of (by being a founding member of) the European Court of Human Rights. Which is not to excuse the errors, but to put it in context: it is a European country… albeit just like Turkey and Azerbaijan.
- trumpdong 4mo agoIn the UK I'd be worried about being arbitrarily arrested, deported, and banned from re-entry. In the US I'd be worried about being murdered. By police. In cold blood.
- flumpcakes 4mo ago> In the UK I'd be worried about being arbitrarily arrested, deported, and banned from re-entry. That's not going to happen unless you commit a serious crime, in which case it's not arbitrary. I can't think of a single case that's made the news. Meanwhile across the pond in America you have the nightly news reporting on children and people in cages screaming. People being rounded up for not being white. Little to no due process at all until you've been through 6 rounds of hell.
- trumpdong 4mo agoBy "commit a serious crime" I assume you mean "publicly state that I support Palestine Action" or maybe "hold a blank sign at a protest". Those are serious crimes in the UK now. But as I said, the worst they're going to do is kick me out, not kill me, and that makes the difference.
- foldr 4mo agoSmall factual correction: the barrister holding the blank sign was not in fact arrested.
- flumpcakes 4mo ago> I assume you mean "publicly state that I support Palestine Action" They are currently a proscribed group, so yes, that is included in the list of things you probably shouldn't do. You're not going to get killed for it though. You're probably not even going to get arrested in most cases. Whether or not they should be proscribed is a different issue. The best course of action is probably to wait for the courts to decide. Pressure groups damaging military assets probably aren't going to be well received by the public regardless of which cause they're for.
- josephg 4mo agoMe too. I’m going to wait a few more years before I visit again. I‘m also careful with what I say online. US CBP tracks what people post online, and has been known to deny entry to people for being critical critical of the current president. I don’t want to risk losing out on future opportunities in the land of the free.
- GoblinSlayer 4mo agoJust don't visit USA and you will be fine.
- IshKebab 4mo agoNot practical in many cases. I'm starting a new job soon and have to visit the US. No way am I saying no to that (way too good a job). I'll probably just buy a decoy phone for the border.
- BLKNSLVR 4mo agoStart setting up profiles ASAP, you want a plausible amount of history for a decoy.
- hod6654 4mo agoHow would one do that?
- rvnx 4mo ago[flagged]
- dijit 4mo agothought the culture was “free speech” if you’re denied at the border for expressing speech online at some historic point (non-violent) then how can “respecting the culture” work? When I am in Saudi Arabia, I don’t wear shorts out of respect for their culture; but they don’t go through my instagram looking for pictures of me in shorts.
- GoblinSlayer 4mo agoWhat happens if you send the phone by mail?
- trumpdong 4mo agoYou go on a list for acting smart, and they dump it with a cellebrite same as at the border.
- akimbostrawman 4mo agothey can try, so far GrapheneOS has been the only mobile OS immune to them.
- microtonal 4mo agoAlso, why would you set up the phone before it arrives?
- dmitrygr 4mo agoI have really, really, really bad news for you about any modern SoC, including all those by Qualcomm. Their ROM private keys are widely available to the three letter agencies. Your OS, while cute, provides no protection at all to anyone who has physical access. Secure boot root keys give away the whole kingdom
- Permik 4mo agoI haven't written up an article about it yet, but from a cursory look of the legal stuff this only affects private citizens and could be circumvented by setting up a shell company that owns your devices. Legally, you can't surrender these devices, access to them or their passwords, as they are company property.
- ninjagoo 4mo ago> could be circumvented by setting up a shell company that owns your devices. Hard LOL. Doesn't apply at borders. Any country borders. Also https://xkcd.com/538/ https://xkcd.com/538/
- bregma 4mo agoThere's what's legal, and then there's what the border guard with a hemorrhoid flareup decides to do on the spot. One pain in the butt can cause you a lifetime of pain in the butt even if it wasn't the intent of any legislator.
- rvnx 4mo ago[flagged]
- somewhatgoated 4mo agoThat’s simply not true. Europe is not one country so this can vary a lot depending on which country you are visiting. I’ve never heard of someone being subjected to the kind of extensive electronic searches that are routine in the US.
- iamkrazy 4mo agoAt least you can walk in with a phone reset to factory settings, and once you cross the border restore from the cloud (or home server like me). In UK you can be stopped walking on the sidewalk. It's much more dystopian in UK.
- ifh-hn 4mo agoThere are no sidewalks in the UK, even more dystopian!
- microtonal 4mo agoDid you mean the US or is the joke wooshing on me? Edit: ah, because the word is pavement in British English :).
- JdeBP 4mo agoSort of. It's also footway when denoting the no-carriages part of a road that also has a carriageway. There's a whole complex terminology of footway, cycleway, bridleway, bridle path, footpath, cycle path, and carriageway. Even more fun: It's ever so slightly different in Scotland to England, Wales, and Northern Ireland. * https://legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/54/section/151 https://legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1984/54/section/151
- ndsipa_pomu 4mo agoAny good examples of that happening? As far as I know, the police have to have a probable cause to stop and search you, but they can certainly ask you to stop and answer questions to which you can ask "am I being detained" if you object to their questions.