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OI mate, you got a loicense for that operating system? The only surprising thing about this story is that the user didn't get a visit by the police to be charg
by antiloper 4mo ago
OI mate, you got a loicense for that operating system?
The only surprising thing about this story is that the user didn't get a visit by the police to be charged with a "non-crime cybersecurity incident". The UK has become such a shithole.
- Cider9986 4mo agoYep, police can simply ask anyone for their passwords and if you don't give it up they can put you in jail. I won't be visiting. Despite many flaws, the US has some damn good rights for its citizens compared to the rest of the world.
- lukan 4mo agoYet swatting, making police kick in the doors and shoot the dogs of someone who was victim of anonymous slander, isn't really a thing here in europe compared to the US.
- SpectreHat 4mo agoThe user you replied to was talking about UK, not Europe.
- Cider9986 4mo agoMy first two sentences were about the UK. The third was general.
- dom96 4mo agoThe UK is a part of Europe.
- exe34 4mo agoGeographically, that's quite the zinger. Legally, no. Different laws.
- cassianoleal 4mo agoEurope has many many different jurisdictions. Even if you take the European Union alone and ignore all the other European countries, the EU only legislates over a subset of things for member countries.
- exe34 4mo agoMuch less the UK.
- cassianoleal 4mo agoI'm not sure how much less it is than, say, Bosnia, Serbia, Belarus, Kosovo...
- trumpdong 4mo agoThe EU has no sovereignty, countries (like Hungary and Germany) can openly disobey it and the worst they can do is kick them out of the EU
- cassianoleal 4mo ago> the worst they can do is kick them out of the EU As opposed to what? Armed invasion?
- trumpdong 4mo agoYes. The EU has no army, no legal sovereignty within each country, etc. It's an alliance of countries NOT a single federal government. The individual countries remain in charge of themselves and the alliance is supposed to be structured in a way that only paases things the countries actually want.
- cassianoleal 4mo agoSo you think it would be better if the EU started a war with a member state that failed to uphold the union's laws?
- graemep 4mo agoThe US has a good constitution but worse policing.
- exe34 4mo agoWhat good is a piece of paper? I have nice toilet paper. It doesn't make me safer when visiting the US.
- graemep 4mo agoThe entire point of a constitution is that, unlike toilet paper, it can be enforced by the courts.
- sph 4mo agoThe very politicized US courts that collude with and are completely in the pocket of whomever's running the country? More developed countries have a clear separation between the judiciary and the executive powers.
- sofixa 4mo agoIn theory, unless the supreme court is bought and paid for and decrees things like "immunity for official business".
- exe34 4mo agoAnd which one are the courts enforcing at the moment in the US? Pretti? Good?
- trumpdong 4mo agoCan be, or is? Courts can enforce my toilet paper too.
- ben_w 4mo agoTrying to imagine how, and the only thing I can think of is that technically you can write a contract on anything? And possibly a cheque, too, because a the cheques in a chequebook are just a standardised IOU form with exactly the same legal weight as if it was done by hand? (Vague memory that someone used this to avoid paying a bill, because refusing a cheque when offered counted as discharging the debt it represents (if I have the right terminology), and as cheques could be written on anything they chose to write it on a car that physically would not fit through the door).
- Aldipower 4mo agoIs this satire?
- manarth 4mo ago[flagged]
- colinb 4mo agoI think it’s true that declining to hand over a password in a criminal investigation is itself a criminal act in the UK. That said, I don’t know how often this actually occurs. As an outsider, it seems to me (big talk on the Internet! Amazeballs) that UK laws are written to be illiberal and gradually watered down to an acceptable degree. I think that happened with RIPA and later with the whole nazi saluting dog mess. Whether they can survive the rise of free speech double talkers like Farage remains to be seen. But the Blair/Brown years made it clear that even supposedly intelligent middle of the road leadership is capable of imposing surprisingly illiberal legislation. I don’t much care for the Tories but I don’t think they have much interest in my personal life.
- NoboruWataya 4mo agoReminds me of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkCBhKs4faI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkCBhKs4faI
- Arch-TK 4mo agoNo, just the UK. I actually think it might be worse. You need to be able to hand over encryption keys too. Claiming to not know them is also not allowed, whether you actually know them or not. I am reasonably convinced that if you wipe the key slots on an encrypted drive but leave encrypted blocks around, they might be able to argue that you are obligates to store all the block keys for such an occasion. So using any kind of multi-tier encryption in the UK might be a massive liability unless you permanently store all the material required to derive any key that is used to encrypt anything. This also probably has impact on TLS now that I think about it. Now, real world criminal cases are likely to proceed differently than how they proceed in the mind of a programmer interpreting the law as a program. But, I am not too convinced such a farcical thing wouldn't happen, the UK government and police have engaged in much dumber things. Now that I think about it, storing randomness on a disk could probably be used to incriminate you in case that disk was seized. Since the police wouldn't be able to tell if it wasn't encrypted data.
- paulgdp 4mo ago> Yep, police can simply ask anyone for their passwords and if you don't give it up they can put you in jail. This is precisely the reason why I don't want to visit the US at the moment. The USA immigration officers can ask me to forfeit my phone's password and look at all my photos, documents, messages, call logs etc, WITHOUT SUSPICION. Some of that data can even stay on their servers for decades, and who knows if it ends up on a CIA/NSA server. Of course, I can always refuse, but non-cooperation with CBP means immediate denial of entry and risks of lifelong headaches with future immigration checks.
- shevy-java 4mo agoIndeed, but the UK is in many ways words. At the least in the USA, often the constitution is upheld (give or take); in the UK you often don't even have such fundamental rights. The UK at present fits more to Russia than, e. g. European countries.
- gizajob 4mo agoYou’re tripping m8.
- josephg 4mo ago> At the least in the USA, often the constitution is upheld Some of ICE’s detainees may have different opinions on that point. The UK may endow her citizens with fewer rights. But I have a lot more trust in British due process. British civil servants seem much less … capricious than Americans. I was almost denied entry to Hawaii once because I told the CBP agent I didn’t have any cash on me. (My money is in a bank account, obviously). He went on a big rant about how expensive Hawaii is. I think he was worried I’d end up homeless. (Even though my visit to hang out with my then employer.) Over the years I’ve heard so many stories from other Australian friends about wild and unfortunate encounters with US police and officials. By comparison, the British government seems far more civilised. If something happened while visiting the UK, I have much more confidence that everything would be resolved in a fair and reasonable manner.
- 4mo ago
- exe34 4mo ago> the US has some damn good rights for its citizens Unless you turn up to a protest against the ICEtapo, with a holstered gun. Then you can be murdered and called a domestic terrorist. As a brown visitor to the US.... Well I won't be one. They can ask for access to my entire digital life without the slightest suspicion of any crimes.
- poirot2 4mo agoAmericans perception of themselves always baffles me. You have police brutality regularly, ICE raids shooting protestors and deporting people (inc those with the right to be there) to El Salvador, people who write critical articles of Israel denied visas, servicemen dying in the Middle East, your president openly stealing from your government via slush funds and his sons, and so little accountability that the only people facing consequences for Epstein are in Britain. Your news is owned by oligarchs who openly buy it to divide you and push their agenda not yours, your views barely matter as your politics is bought and paid for, your elections are rigged by gerrymandering so few incumbents ever lose. Then call yourself a democracy. Absolute Mickey Mouse country singing itself propaganda about building the future whilst having a healthcare system that lets people die regularly for being too poor. Not exactly freedom if you’re dead is it? Then they come to London and realise it’s just a much cleaner, safer, nicer looking city than anywhere in the US and has more culture, food and diversity than all but a few American cities. But have to justify going back to a chicken coop country where they grind out the prime of their lives, get no maternity pay, and like 10 days of holiday.
- expedition32 4mo agoI am an atheist and any country were a leader claims their country to be Christian is a no go for me. Is the separation of church and state a joke to Americans? It was pretty funny because right next to Trump they had a man/woman in a Easter bunny suit.
- microtonal 4mo agoI am also an atheist. Our country has christian prime ministers in the past. It was not a problem, because virtually all the christians that are left in our country (the majority of people are atheists of agnostics these days) believe in a separation of church and state. It is not about christianity. Authoritarian and populist leaders will always coopt/corrupt whatever is convenient for them. Christianity, socialism, capitalism, whatever works to rally a substantial portion of the population.
- abc123abc123 4mo agoTo be consistent, you must also not go to hindu, moslem or any other countries. Out of curiousity, which countries remain on your list?
- bborud 4mo agoYou are aware of the fact that you essentially have no rights at border crossings, right? Even if you are a US citizen entering the US. This is why many companies have procedures for when employees visit certain countries, including the US. For instance that you are not allowed to bring your personal phone, your personal and work laptop or any medium that can hold sensitive or proprietary information.
- seviu 4mo agoNot sure if related but this is my story. I am Spanish. When leaving SF back to Europe from a Google IO, after control, waiting to scan my luggage, an officer stood besides me and started speaking in Spanish besides me. The first minute my brain didn’t register because though Spanish is my mother tongue, I guess it was not ready for that. The police officer started to get irritated. Eventually my brain switched, I had a chat with him and he left. I was totally freaked out the rest of the time, till the moment I boarded. Only then I realized how frail our rights are when you are abroad.
- rafram 4mo agoThis seems very innocuous? Almost a third of Californians speak Spanish natively.
- Cider9986 4mo agoThey can delay you until they confirm you're a US citizen, but they can't prevent you from reentering.
- trumpdong 4mo agoIsn't it exactly the same in the US right now?
- mattmaroon 4mo agoNo.
- wakaru44 4mo agoPretty much. But ~95% of US citizens don't seem to be even aware. I'm guessing due to a mix of ignorance and copium.
- epolanski 4mo agoA friend of mine visiting the US as a tourist with family was expected by immigration to provide lots of digital information and full access to every device at JFK. They were held for more than 4 hours at the airport. But, to counter balance, I had multiple other friends traveling to the US (both on work visas and tourist ones) and it was smooth sailing. In any case, the story of my first friend is what made me cancel my US trip last summer and go to Japan instead.
- andrepd 4mo ago> Despite many flaws, the US has some damn good rights for its citizens The absolute gall of saying this, on this point in in particular, with all that has happened over the past 1.5 years in the US... Gobsmacked
- gizajob 4mo agoIncluding the right to randomly get shot in school.
- guax 4mo agoJust to clarify this piece of misinformation. The police can ask for your passwords. You're not required to give them anything until they apply for a Section 49 notice of RIPA. Which they must get from a Judge. It seems to be recommended to refuse giving them the password before that notice is issued and seek a lawyer before complying. If the judge agrees with them, you have to comply.
- Revisional_Sin 4mo agoThe password can only be compelled via a judge. A policeman can't demand it on whim.
- matthewmacleod 4mo agoThis is not true – the police cannot "simply ask anyone for their passwords", and your oversimplification has resulted in this becoming a lie. I would really strongly recommend that you educate yourself first – by doing this, you contribute to the misinformation that is currently making much of the world an unpleasant place to be.
- red_admiral 4mo agoThere are a lot of media reports that if ICE don't like your face, they can be a bit ... cavalier ... about citizen's rights.
- solumunus 4mo agoI’m sorry but your citizens are treated far worse by authorities than UK citizens and it’s not even close.
- red_admiral 4mo agoThey can detain you and ask for an order from a judge: https://reeds.co.uk/insights/i-give-police-phone-pin/ https://reeds.co.uk/insights/i-give-police-phone-pin/ and then you still have the right to consult a lawyer first. I presume any journalist or competent protest organiser in the UK knows the details better than me, but they can't just stop you on the sidewalk (UK: pavement) and ask you to hand over your PIN on the spot. I think the "put you in jail" thing is a misunderstanding of the general "police can detain someone suspected of a crime" principle, but then they still need to get a judge to approve them holding you longer than a few* days. (*) The rules are slightly different for terrorism suspects.
- drywipes 4mo agoYeah they can ask for passwords but I've seen so many people work around this by pretending they forgot. Because at that point what are they going to do.
- graemep 4mo agoNon-crime hate incidents 1) never lead to people being charged, and 2) recording of them has been greatly reformed following a court ruling and new legislation I agree there are a lot of problems (e.g. the online safety Act) but it look as though both the rest of Europe and the rest of the west is going the same way. I also assume this incident was not in the UK as the details were shared on imgur which blocks the UK. The authorities also do not seem to have taken any action. Anyone can report anything they want.
- robk 4mo agoYep but they live with you for life on a DBS check, and you know that we brought up in a court of law if anything else happens to be against your favor
- graemep 4mo ago1. That is one reason why the rules were changed to reduce the level of recoding 2. It would only be disclosed on an enhanced DBS check, not basic or standard. This also applies to all other information the police have on you, not just NCHIs. This is just like the rules for disclosing something like a caution issued to someone in your household, an aquittal, allegations made against you, parking and speeding tickets etc. "Non-crime information can be disclosed on an enhanced DBS check – which is limited to high-risk positions like teachers and carers – but only with the approval of a chief officer. The chief officer must have regard to statutory guidance issued by the Home Office and consider whether the applicant should be allowed to make representations before any information is disclosed." https://www.college.police.uk/article/protecting-freedom-expression-updated-guidance https://www.college.police.uk/article/protecting-freedom-exp... It is illegal to request a higher level of check than the guidance allows for a particular role.
- avereveard 4mo agoThe right level of recording of non crime is zero wdym reduced?
- shevy-java 4mo ago> didn't get a visit by the police Don't give them ideas! After having watched too many videos on Auditing Britain, I can not trust the UK cops. In some ways they are worse than US cops, except for shooting down people, where US cops still lead negatively here. Also, UK cops use many more words than US cops, without those words really meaning much at all. The amount of flabbergast-inflated text length is insane.
- hparadiz 4mo agoWatching all UK folks in denial is too funny.
- Arch-TK 4mo agoIt's gaming communities too. There is a massive mindset overlap between gamers and average UK residents. They both think that all the dystopia is for the greater good, is never abused, and if you fall victim to it, you must have been doing something dodgy to deserve it.
- OhioMan2943 4mo agoCommunities like this have definitely been manipulated into complicity by establishment interests ie through media.
- joe463369 4mo agoIt's not denial. Nothing's happened.
- somat 4mo agohttps://www.openbsd.org/lyrics.html#35 https://www.openbsd.org/lyrics.html#35
- deleted 4mo ago[deleted]
- andrepd 4mo agoThe only hit I get for "non-crime cybersecurity incident" is this very thread. Would you care to elaborate what you mean?
- khriss 4mo agoThis is the real endgame, and my biggest fear of the war on privacy. That in the future, even trying to assert your right to privacy will be grounds for suspicion.
- joe463369 4mo ago> OI mate, you got a loicense for that operating system? please don't