5 ms·

Honest question, do we know why crime isn’t being prosecuted anymore? I’ve noticed where I live this definitely seems to be the case and has a two fold effect,

Honest question, do we know why crime isn’t being prosecuted anymore? I’ve noticed where I live this definitely seems to be the case and has a two fold effect, police aren’t even bothering to enforce laws because when they do the city/county refuses to prosecute and then criminals are getting wise to this and escalating their crimes. Previously where I live there would be violent crimes but generally in the early hours (2-4am) but in the last 5 years those same crimes have been happening more and more during the normal daytime hours (8am-7pm)

awesome_dude 4mo ago
There's a lot here to unpack - and it's incredibly nuanced. Crime in most countries is on the decline, there have been "blips" or "spikes", but the reality is that crime is decreasing. When people talk about communities not being policed, there's also multiple things at play - partly it's perception, which is subjective, and not very reliable (back in my dayyyyyy), and partly it's about focus. As for prosecution - most countries are realising that prosecution leading to incarceration is counter productive - as the GP touched on, prison becomes a University for criminals, as well as a record being prohibitive in getting individuals "on the right track" - that is, they become more isolated and excluded, leaving them with fewer choices when it comes to behaviour. I'm middle aged, and for my entire life, the same drum has been beaten - crime is rising, children don't respect their elders, youth are getting away with crime, there should be harsher punishments, and so on. But the hard facts have shown otherwise (as to /why/ crime is dropping, that's a genuine subject for debate, for example the removal of lead in petrol is now thought to be one of the key reasons that violent crime is dropping)
- nradov 4mo ago
  Crime statistics are on the decline. It's harder to tell whether actual crime is on the decline.
  - awesome_dude 4mo ago
    Anecdata isn't going to get us any closer. Statistics gathered the way the are is all we have
    - nradov 4mo ago
      Are the statistics accurate? Jeff Bezos said, "I have a saying, which is when the data and the anecdotes disagree, the anecdotes are usually right." https://lexfridman.com/jeff-bezos-transcript/#chapter6_amazon https://lexfridman.com/jeff-bezos-transcript/#chapter6_amazo...
      - awesome_dude 4mo ago
        I have a saying - if you think the data is bad because it doesn't match your narrative, go out and prove you have better data collection methods. Anecdata is well known to be problematic.
        philwelch 4mo ago
        > Anecdata is well known to be problematic. Show me the data that backs that claim.
        awesome_dude 4mo ago
        It's always been that way for me... is that not enough, you want actual data?
        hilariously 4mo ago
        If its not true, then my anecdote that its true should suffice to make it true, no data required Q.E.D.
    - verisimi 4mo ago
      But.... you can get statistics on anything you like, if you are prepared to fund (or defund) them. If you pay to see the relation between crime and how many cats there are in a neighbourhood, you can get that! Ie statistics themselves are part of the game.
- vondur 4mo ago
  [dead]
- runjake 4mo ago
  > the reality is that crime is decreasing This is the problem with assuming stats == reality. The ground reality often does not match the overall stats. Overall, crime seems to be decreasing. But this doesn’t help in areas like mine, where the population is growing, taxes are increasing, and crime is rising, yet budgets for adequate LE/justice resources seem to be decreasing or not keeping pace with crime growth. This seems to be fairly common in growing areas of the western US.
runjake 4mo ago
I'm not qualified to answer, but I regularly hear the following in the US: - Not enough (LE|DA|jail) funding or staffing or space. - "We want to focus on violent crimes". I have a whole rant about this, watching violent criminals/rapists going through revolving doors. - Use of diversion and "restorative justice" programs, which clearly do not work for certain classes of criminals with very long rap sheets, but here we are.
- throwaway173738 4mo ago
  > Use of diversion and "restorative justice" programs, which clearly do not work for certain classes of criminals with very long rap sheets, but here we are. But they clearly work on others, so they’re probably fine. > Not enough (LE|DA|jail) funding or staffing or space This is a solvable problem if you’re willing to pay taxes on it. I think it’s a good thing because newer facilities and more staff probably leads to more humane treatment of prone in jail. We could also stop routinely jailing people who are awaiting trial, too.
  - nixae 4mo ago
    [flagged]
- KittenInABox 4mo ago
  > Not enough (LE|DA|jail) funding or staffing or space. How is it possible that there isn't enough funding/staffing? Budgets have increased, ballooned beyond inflation in many cases they are the biggest line item in a city's budget.
hitekker 4mo ago
[flagged]
- hsbauauvhabzb 4mo ago
  You’ve just presented an anecdote with no factual evidence and no video footage. It’s one sided hearsay.
  - hitekker 4mo ago
    It's in the public record. https://www.sfchronicle.com/crime/article/sf-mayor-bodyguard-attack-suspect-id-21959232.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/crime/article/sf-mayor-bodyguard... https://www.sfchronicle.com/crime/article/sf-mayor-bodyguard-assault-custody-22079881.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/crime/article/sf-mayor-bodyguard... The reporter's findings can be annotated with reddit links but I don't think the mob needs to be fed. My summary suffices.
  - mikestew 4mo ago
    You could have just asked for a URL.
    - hsbauauvhabzb 4mo ago
      One could have been provided, or even a name to google.
      - loeg 4mo ago
        Just "SF stabber mayor" would have been enough; it's fine to admit you were just extremely lazy and quick to jump to dismiss GP's claim, and apologize. It was major ish news.
        hsbauauvhabzb 4mo ago
        Major ish news /where you live/. Not globally.
fragmede 4mo ago
The popularity of the ACAB meme did not exactly endear the local populace with the local police in more liberal cities.
- komali2 4mo ago
  Perhaps the police should not have earned the label if they didn't want it applied. The problem is the police and the State are allies in the end, and the State under liberal democracy is supposed to be the mechanism by which the police are reformed / reigned in. Now you get insanities like governors sending in police and national guard to support a federal invasion force to defend a concentration camp the locals are protesting against. https://truthout.org/articles/new-jersey-governor-acquiesces-to-dhs-deploys-police-outside-delaney-hall/ https://truthout.org/articles/new-jersey-governor-acquiesces...
philwelch 4mo ago
It's intentional on the part of the prosecutors, and the billionaire who funds their campaigns. I don't know what their actual motivations are--probably some combination of ideological derangement and ulterior motive. They just don't believe in prosecuting most ordinary criminals.

awesome_dude 4mo ago

There's a lot here to unpack - and it's incredibly nuanced. Crime in most countries is on the decline, there have been "blips" or "spikes", but the reality is that crime is decreasing. When people talk about communities not being policed, there's also multiple things at play - partly it's perception, which is subjective, and not very reliable (back in my dayyyyyy), and partly it's about focus. As for prosecution - most countries are realising that prosecution leading to incarceration is counter productive - as the GP touched on, prison becomes a University for criminals, as well as a record being prohibitive in getting individuals "on the right track" - that is, they become more isolated and excluded, leaving them with fewer choices when it comes to behaviour. I'm middle aged, and for my entire life, the same drum has been beaten - crime is rising, children don't respect their elders, youth are getting away with crime, there should be harsher punishments, and so on. But the hard facts have shown otherwise (as to /why/ crime is dropping, that's a genuine subject for debate, for example the removal of lead in petrol is now thought to be one of the key reasons that violent crime is dropping)

nradov 4mo ago
Crime statistics are on the decline. It's harder to tell whether actual crime is on the decline.
- awesome_dude 4mo ago
  Anecdata isn't going to get us any closer. Statistics gathered the way the are is all we have
  - nradov 4mo ago
    Are the statistics accurate? Jeff Bezos said, "I have a saying, which is when the data and the anecdotes disagree, the anecdotes are usually right." https://lexfridman.com/jeff-bezos-transcript/#chapter6_amazon https://lexfridman.com/jeff-bezos-transcript/#chapter6_amazo...
    - awesome_dude 4mo ago
      I have a saying - if you think the data is bad because it doesn't match your narrative, go out and prove you have better data collection methods. Anecdata is well known to be problematic.
      - philwelch 4mo ago
        > Anecdata is well known to be problematic. Show me the data that backs that claim.
        awesome_dude 4mo ago
        It's always been that way for me... is that not enough, you want actual data?
        hilariously 4mo ago
        If its not true, then my anecdote that its true should suffice to make it true, no data required Q.E.D.
  - verisimi 4mo ago
    But.... you can get statistics on anything you like, if you are prepared to fund (or defund) them. If you pay to see the relation between crime and how many cats there are in a neighbourhood, you can get that! Ie statistics themselves are part of the game.
vondur 4mo ago
[dead]
runjake 4mo ago
> the reality is that crime is decreasing This is the problem with assuming stats == reality. The ground reality often does not match the overall stats. Overall, crime seems to be decreasing. But this doesn’t help in areas like mine, where the population is growing, taxes are increasing, and crime is rising, yet budgets for adequate LE/justice resources seem to be decreasing or not keeping pace with crime growth. This seems to be fairly common in growing areas of the western US.

runjake 4mo ago

I'm not qualified to answer, but I regularly hear the following in the US: - Not enough (LE|DA|jail) funding or staffing or space. - "We want to focus on violent crimes". I have a whole rant about this, watching violent criminals/rapists going through revolving doors. - Use of diversion and "restorative justice" programs, which clearly do not work for certain classes of criminals with very long rap sheets, but here we are.

throwaway173738 4mo ago
> Use of diversion and "restorative justice" programs, which clearly do not work for certain classes of criminals with very long rap sheets, but here we are. But they clearly work on others, so they’re probably fine. > Not enough (LE|DA|jail) funding or staffing or space This is a solvable problem if you’re willing to pay taxes on it. I think it’s a good thing because newer facilities and more staff probably leads to more humane treatment of prone in jail. We could also stop routinely jailing people who are awaiting trial, too.
- nixae 4mo ago
  [flagged]
KittenInABox 4mo ago
> Not enough (LE|DA|jail) funding or staffing or space. How is it possible that there isn't enough funding/staffing? Budgets have increased, ballooned beyond inflation in many cases they are the biggest line item in a city's budget.

hitekker 4mo ago

[flagged]

hsbauauvhabzb 4mo ago
You’ve just presented an anecdote with no factual evidence and no video footage. It’s one sided hearsay.
- hitekker 4mo ago
  It's in the public record. https://www.sfchronicle.com/crime/article/sf-mayor-bodyguard-attack-suspect-id-21959232.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/crime/article/sf-mayor-bodyguard... https://www.sfchronicle.com/crime/article/sf-mayor-bodyguard-assault-custody-22079881.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/crime/article/sf-mayor-bodyguard... The reporter's findings can be annotated with reddit links but I don't think the mob needs to be fed. My summary suffices.
- mikestew 4mo ago
  You could have just asked for a URL.
  - hsbauauvhabzb 4mo ago
    One could have been provided, or even a name to google.
    - loeg 4mo ago
      Just "SF stabber mayor" would have been enough; it's fine to admit you were just extremely lazy and quick to jump to dismiss GP's claim, and apologize. It was major ish news.
      - hsbauauvhabzb 4mo ago
        Major ish news /where you live/. Not globally.

fragmede 4mo ago

The popularity of the ACAB meme did not exactly endear the local populace with the local police in more liberal cities.

komali2 4mo ago
Perhaps the police should not have earned the label if they didn't want it applied. The problem is the police and the State are allies in the end, and the State under liberal democracy is supposed to be the mechanism by which the police are reformed / reigned in. Now you get insanities like governors sending in police and national guard to support a federal invasion force to defend a concentration camp the locals are protesting against. https://truthout.org/articles/new-jersey-governor-acquiesces-to-dhs-deploys-police-outside-delaney-hall/ https://truthout.org/articles/new-jersey-governor-acquiesces...

philwelch 4mo ago

It's intentional on the part of the prosecutors, and the billionaire who funds their campaigns. I don't know what their actual motivations are--probably some combination of ideological derangement and ulterior motive. They just don't believe in prosecuting most ordinary criminals.