5 ms·

Show HN: Helios – what plug-in solar could generate for any address in Britain

126 points by ruaraidh 4mo ago

Plug-in solar panels (no electrician needed) have just become legal in the UK and will go on sale soon. Helios estimates how much electricity a typical installation could generate at a given address and what that's worth against your tariff. It uses UK government LIDAR data to reflect the actual skyline, so it knows whether there's a building or a hill blocking the sun. Caveats: - Outside LIDAR coverage (most of Scotland and Wales) it falls back to a synthetic horizon (less accurate). - Trees and recent developments (post-2022 or so) may not be in the data, and some address placements could be off (geocoding via OSM). Feedback on the shading model especially welcome.

GordonS 4mo ago
This is really nice! Would be great if it could handle regular rooftop solar calculations too.
- ruaraidh 4mo ago
  Thanks! Should be doable, I just got excited by the new shiny thing first.
  - spockz 4mo ago
    Be wary of these people: https://helioscope.aurorasolar.com/ https://helioscope.aurorasolar.com/
redfloatplane 4mo ago
Huh, TIL about the National LIDAR Programme: https://www.data.gov.uk/dataset/f0db0249-f17b-4036-9e65-309148c97ce4/national-lidar-programme https://www.data.gov.uk/dataset/f0db0249-f17b-4036-9e65-3091... Very interesting stuff and quite a large undertaking! I'm often impressed by the quality of the UK's open data.
- kilroy123 4mo ago
  I noticed this as well! Very interesting.
- cowsandmilk 4mo ago
  > I'm often impressed by the quality of the UK's open data. The ordnance survey not being open data is a bad look though.
  - danw1979 4mo ago
    I’ll add the UKHO Admiralty marine charts to this list too.
  - redfloatplane 4mo ago
    Indeed. Taillte Ireland's (Ordnance Survey Ireland's) detailed cartographic data is also not open (including historic data - maps from the 1820s and 1920s!) and it's really a huge pain in the ass. On the other hand, OSM is in pretty good shape at least for topographic information. I've used it to make hiking maps here and nobody's died - as far as I know. As a side note, I was one of the initial developers of the Irish national open data portal. Earlier today I had Claude look for similar LIDAR data for Ireland and I saw it pull from the site I built a dozen years ago and I was unreasonably pleased with myself :)
ltrg 4mo ago
Really cool stuff. Nitpick: it failed to grab an OSM ID for my house and fell back to postcode centroid, but then still reported LIDAR-derived shading at quite high precision. I'm wondering if it should fall back to a more general shading approach when no OSM building footprint is available, to avoid false precision? My street has a gap in the houses on the other side from mine, so picking the right location matters for the calculation. You could also try Inspire Index polygons instead of OSM? These correspond to actual lease/freehold boundaries.
- ruaraidh 4mo ago
  Thanks - I didn't know about Inspire Index, I'll check it out. I tend to agree about false precision. My first instinct was to use the synthetic horizon for addresses in that group, but I think that's over positive. A range might be better (if a bit more complex)?
realty_geek 4mo ago
Nice. I'm working on a project called homestocompare to help people house-hunting in the UK. Would be nice to add this as an extra data point when comparing. Are you open to collaborating at all?
- ruaraidh 4mo ago
  Absolutely! I have some other datasets that might be useful too (e.g. air quality). Drop me a line: ruaraidh[at]southlondonscientific.com :)
  - realty_geek 4mo ago
    Great, thanks - I'll drop you a line.
- simonjgreen 4mo ago
  Let me know if you’d like access to alt net availability data
  - realty_geek 4mo ago
    Sorry, not sure what you mean by "alt net availability"
domh 4mo ago
Would be good to be able to select multiple points on the compass and have it tell me the best place for it (front and back garden)
- ruaraidh 4mo ago
  Good idea. I want to add specific options for different mounting locations (sheds etc) as well.
ifh-hn 4mo ago
> Worth it. The kit pays for itself in 7.1 years; over 20 years it's good for about £1,095 net. This is my issue with this sort of thing. Am I going to have this kit in 7 years? Or would I upgrade to better stuff at the technology improves?
- toomuchtodo 4mo ago
  Depends on your energy requirements and future technology and energy costs. At the moment, one should value this outlay as a fixed income equivalent investment [1]. The panels have a ~25 year warranty though [2] (at which point, they should still produce ~80% of rated output), so it’s entirely possible to just leave them in place. At a certain age (~55-60), these are the last PV panels you’ll need to buy, as they’ll potentially outlive you (assuming developed country life expectancy). [1] https://magnifina.com/articles/rooftop-solar-yield/ https://magnifina.com/articles/rooftop-solar-yield/ [2] https://www.energysage.com/solar/solar-panel-warranties/ https://www.energysage.com/solar/solar-panel-warranties/
- pjc50 4mo ago
  Why would you replace it if doing so is uneconomic? Panel lifetime is very high. The scope for efficiency improvement is not huge (unless there is a cost breakthrough in multi band photon capture). It's not a car, phone, or computer. It's more like the rest of the house electric infrastructure. I had my rooftop solar over 10 years ago and basically intend to leave it until some maintenance issue forces action. (Also, the kit secondhand value is hard to determine but far from zero; 30-50% maybe?)
- IshKebab 4mo ago
  The technology is unlikely to improve meaningfully in 7 years. And you'd only upgrade if it was a financial improvement so it makes complete sense to give an estimate based on keeping it for 20 years. I don't see what your issue is.
  - ifh-hn 4mo ago
    Then you are unlikely to be the person I'd be taking advice from.
toomuchtodo 4mo ago
Great work. Is it possible to use this dataset to calculate total plug in solar potential within the geographic constraint?
- ruaraidh 4mo ago
  Oh, that's such a good idea! I suppose the challenge is knowing where there are installable surfaces are (or at least making defensible guesses). I'm going to have a go at this...
dnlzro 4mo ago
This is a great use of open data! Please consider making the source code available. I’d love to make something similar for your friends across the pond (in Canada).
IshKebab 4mo ago
What if I already have solar, can I add this? Also do you actually need a balcony or can you hang these out of a window somehow? Very few houses in the UK have balconies.
- jimnotgym 4mo ago
  You can put it on the ground if you like
ErroneousBosh 4mo ago
"Any address in Britain" "Caveats: - Outside LIDAR coverage (most of Scotland and Wales) it falls back to a synthetic horizon (less accurate)" So, "any address in the most of the southern half of Britain"?
overfits_ai 4mo ago
This is a really interesting project! The use of LIDAR data to account for actual building shadows is a clever approach. I'd be curious to see how this compares to commercial solar assessment tools in terms of accuracy. The UK's move to legalize plug-in solar is great for residential adoption.
pinkgolem 4mo ago
I am just surprised about the cost? Kits in Germany are 300€ without a battery.
- gib444 4mo ago
  Surprised which way? Too cheap? Too expensive? Surprised things differ in price by country?
  - pinkgolem 4mo ago
    To expensive, 2x of a factor between countrys side by side is massive. Esp. As the 300€ are more of an go to your nearest diy store and buy one, there are better deals out there. Here is one for 239 effectively, including hanging hardware & everything you need. https://www.mydealz.de/share-deal-from-app/2787366 https://www.mydealz.de/share-deal-from-app/2787366
    - gib444 4mo ago
      Thanks for clarifying. Lots of vague comments here recently We don't call it "rip off Britain" for nothing. A great many things are a rip off
mattlondon 4mo ago
Nice. It would be nice to be able to pick the precise location on the map (house number appears not to work). Also "ground floor" seems to say 1.5m off of the floor? I would like to tweak those values for e.g. panels on the floor in a garden.
candizdar 4mo ago
[flagged]
benj111 4mo ago
What are the costs of the installation based on? I haven't been able to find any for sale?
syedofc 4mo ago
This is a nice example of making sustainability practical rather than abstract. Showing potential generation at an address level makes the decision much easier for non-experts. A lot of climate tech needs this kind of interface: not just “this is good,” but “this is what it could mean for your specific situation.”

126 points by ruaraidh 4mo ago

GordonS 4mo ago

This is really nice! Would be great if it could handle regular rooftop solar calculations too.

ruaraidh 4mo ago
Thanks! Should be doable, I just got excited by the new shiny thing first.
- spockz 4mo ago
  Be wary of these people: https://helioscope.aurorasolar.com/ https://helioscope.aurorasolar.com/

redfloatplane 4mo ago

Huh, TIL about the National LIDAR Programme: https://www.data.gov.uk/dataset/f0db0249-f17b-4036-9e65-309148c97ce4/national-lidar-programme https://www.data.gov.uk/dataset/f0db0249-f17b-4036-9e65-3091... Very interesting stuff and quite a large undertaking! I'm often impressed by the quality of the UK's open data.

kilroy123 4mo ago
I noticed this as well! Very interesting.
cowsandmilk 4mo ago
> I'm often impressed by the quality of the UK's open data. The ordnance survey not being open data is a bad look though.
- danw1979 4mo ago
  I’ll add the UKHO Admiralty marine charts to this list too.
- redfloatplane 4mo ago
  Indeed. Taillte Ireland's (Ordnance Survey Ireland's) detailed cartographic data is also not open (including historic data - maps from the 1820s and 1920s!) and it's really a huge pain in the ass. On the other hand, OSM is in pretty good shape at least for topographic information. I've used it to make hiking maps here and nobody's died - as far as I know. As a side note, I was one of the initial developers of the Irish national open data portal. Earlier today I had Claude look for similar LIDAR data for Ireland and I saw it pull from the site I built a dozen years ago and I was unreasonably pleased with myself :)

ltrg 4mo ago

Really cool stuff. Nitpick: it failed to grab an OSM ID for my house and fell back to postcode centroid, but then still reported LIDAR-derived shading at quite high precision. I'm wondering if it should fall back to a more general shading approach when no OSM building footprint is available, to avoid false precision? My street has a gap in the houses on the other side from mine, so picking the right location matters for the calculation. You could also try Inspire Index polygons instead of OSM? These correspond to actual lease/freehold boundaries.

ruaraidh 4mo ago
Thanks - I didn't know about Inspire Index, I'll check it out. I tend to agree about false precision. My first instinct was to use the synthetic horizon for addresses in that group, but I think that's over positive. A range might be better (if a bit more complex)?

realty_geek 4mo ago

Nice. I'm working on a project called homestocompare to help people house-hunting in the UK. Would be nice to add this as an extra data point when comparing. Are you open to collaborating at all?

ruaraidh 4mo ago
Absolutely! I have some other datasets that might be useful too (e.g. air quality). Drop me a line: ruaraidh[at]southlondonscientific.com :)
- realty_geek 4mo ago
  Great, thanks - I'll drop you a line.
simonjgreen 4mo ago
Let me know if you’d like access to alt net availability data
- realty_geek 4mo ago
  Sorry, not sure what you mean by "alt net availability"

domh 4mo ago

Would be good to be able to select multiple points on the compass and have it tell me the best place for it (front and back garden)

ruaraidh 4mo ago
Good idea. I want to add specific options for different mounting locations (sheds etc) as well.

ifh-hn 4mo ago

> Worth it. The kit pays for itself in 7.1 years; over 20 years it's good for about £1,095 net. This is my issue with this sort of thing. Am I going to have this kit in 7 years? Or would I upgrade to better stuff at the technology improves?

toomuchtodo 4mo ago
Depends on your energy requirements and future technology and energy costs. At the moment, one should value this outlay as a fixed income equivalent investment [1]. The panels have a ~25 year warranty though [2] (at which point, they should still produce ~80% of rated output), so it’s entirely possible to just leave them in place. At a certain age (~55-60), these are the last PV panels you’ll need to buy, as they’ll potentially outlive you (assuming developed country life expectancy). [1] https://magnifina.com/articles/rooftop-solar-yield/ https://magnifina.com/articles/rooftop-solar-yield/ [2] https://www.energysage.com/solar/solar-panel-warranties/ https://www.energysage.com/solar/solar-panel-warranties/
pjc50 4mo ago
Why would you replace it if doing so is uneconomic? Panel lifetime is very high. The scope for efficiency improvement is not huge (unless there is a cost breakthrough in multi band photon capture). It's not a car, phone, or computer. It's more like the rest of the house electric infrastructure. I had my rooftop solar over 10 years ago and basically intend to leave it until some maintenance issue forces action. (Also, the kit secondhand value is hard to determine but far from zero; 30-50% maybe?)
IshKebab 4mo ago
The technology is unlikely to improve meaningfully in 7 years. And you'd only upgrade if it was a financial improvement so it makes complete sense to give an estimate based on keeping it for 20 years. I don't see what your issue is.
- ifh-hn 4mo ago
  Then you are unlikely to be the person I'd be taking advice from.

toomuchtodo 4mo ago

Great work. Is it possible to use this dataset to calculate total plug in solar potential within the geographic constraint?

ruaraidh 4mo ago
Oh, that's such a good idea! I suppose the challenge is knowing where there are installable surfaces are (or at least making defensible guesses). I'm going to have a go at this...

dnlzro 4mo ago

This is a great use of open data! Please consider making the source code available. I’d love to make something similar for your friends across the pond (in Canada).

IshKebab 4mo ago

What if I already have solar, can I add this? Also do you actually need a balcony or can you hang these out of a window somehow? Very few houses in the UK have balconies.

jimnotgym 4mo ago
You can put it on the ground if you like

ErroneousBosh 4mo ago

"Any address in Britain" "Caveats: - Outside LIDAR coverage (most of Scotland and Wales) it falls back to a synthetic horizon (less accurate)" So, "any address in the most of the southern half of Britain"?

overfits_ai 4mo ago

This is a really interesting project! The use of LIDAR data to account for actual building shadows is a clever approach. I'd be curious to see how this compares to commercial solar assessment tools in terms of accuracy. The UK's move to legalize plug-in solar is great for residential adoption.

pinkgolem 4mo ago

I am just surprised about the cost? Kits in Germany are 300€ without a battery.

gib444 4mo ago
Surprised which way? Too cheap? Too expensive? Surprised things differ in price by country?
- pinkgolem 4mo ago
  To expensive, 2x of a factor between countrys side by side is massive. Esp. As the 300€ are more of an go to your nearest diy store and buy one, there are better deals out there. Here is one for 239 effectively, including hanging hardware & everything you need. https://www.mydealz.de/share-deal-from-app/2787366 https://www.mydealz.de/share-deal-from-app/2787366
  - gib444 4mo ago
    Thanks for clarifying. Lots of vague comments here recently We don't call it "rip off Britain" for nothing. A great many things are a rip off

mattlondon 4mo ago

Nice. It would be nice to be able to pick the precise location on the map (house number appears not to work). Also "ground floor" seems to say 1.5m off of the floor? I would like to tweak those values for e.g. panels on the floor in a garden.

candizdar 4mo ago

[flagged]

benj111 4mo ago

What are the costs of the installation based on? I haven't been able to find any for sale?

syedofc 4mo ago

This is a nice example of making sustainability practical rather than abstract. Showing potential generation at an address level makes the decision much easier for non-experts. A lot of climate tech needs this kind of interface: not just “this is good,” but “this is what it could mean for your specific situation.”