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Isn't there some kind of law to disallow imports without a CE / RoHS / etc label? Why allow it to enter the EU, and then fine the seller afterwards?
by manoDev 4mo ago
Isn't there some kind of law to disallow imports without a CE / RoHS / etc label? Why allow it to enter the EU, and then fine the seller afterwards?
- MobiusHorizons 4mo agoAre you suggesting opening every package to check for a CE? I think fining after the fact is how those laws are enforced.
- GJim 4mo ago> Are you suggesting opening every package to check for a CE? In the old days, when an importer purchased Chinese goods in bulk and resold them, import checks were commonplace.... AND the importer was legally responsible for paying import duties and selling goods to the public that were legal and met safety standards. Now that any individual can order direct from China (with cheap subsidised postage!), the floodgates of untaxed and dangerous shite are open. One solution is to address the subsidised postage that makes this state of affairs possible.
- lokar 4mo agoRequire the recipient affirm the package meets all legal requirements, and personally assume liability for any violation.
- mc32 4mo agoThat’s unworkable: asking a recipient unfamiliar with producers to know whether producer is reputable or not in advance and if the producer is unscrupulous you expect every affected buyer to follow up or be in violation of importation laws?
- lokar 4mo agoIf you are not sure, buy from within the EU from an importer who deals with this. The old system of spot inspections worked because most import volume was from known, repeat importers.
- mc32 4mo agoI think thats asking much from people some of whom easily get scammed by phone banks in Eastern Europe, India etc. many people will not put in that effort.
- victorbjorklund 4mo agoSo consumers should just pay for a random import company to ”pinky promise” that it is safe? It is well known that most of the crap that is CE hasn’t actually gone through a million euro testing program. It’s just a stamp. And if something happens then well that LLC goes bankrupt (but odds are low)
- lokar 4mo agoLicense importers? Have them audited, post a bond, etc?
- victorbjorklund 4mo agoCE is self certification for most part. It’s just the seller saying ”yea, I promise it is safe”. Should consumers have to post a bond to receive a package from abroad?
- victorbjorklund 4mo agoSo hold the consumer liable for laws meant to protect the consumer?
- miohtama 4mo agoHolding a consumer liable for the broken crap they order would be just, but political infeasible as long as there is someone else to blame.
- victorbjorklund 4mo agoWhy even have consumer laws then if consumers are punished if their Samsung phone explodes?
- miohtama 4mo agoIt depends if Samsung is imported by a consumer or a company that takes liability
- victorbjorklund 4mo agoSo pretty much just pay for the stamp from a shell company that will shield the legal risk? So just more expensive for consumers and more profit for lawyers that can just set up single purpose shell companies to sign off on the import?
- manoDev 4mo agoI see, the issue is those parcels are mailed directly, not from a logistics operation already inside EU borders. In my country the government is pushing those companies to have local warehouses. So if items are bulk imported by the marketplace, in theory it should be easier to inspect.
- dwroberts 4mo agoThey add fake labels, this has been happening for a long time
- amelius 4mo agoYeah they have the CE mark, but it means "Chinese Export". You can recognize it by the C and E being closer together.
- leni536 4mo agoThere is no such thing as "Chinese Export". https://cemarkingassociation.co.uk/latest-news/ce-marking-and-the-chinese-export-logo/ https://cemarkingassociation.co.uk/latest-news/ce-marking-an...
- QuantumNomad_ 4mo agoThere is such a thing. The Chinese Export one was specifically created to intentionally be confusable with the real CE marking (Conformité Européenne). And it works exactly as intended. People see “CE” and think it’s the real CE one but it’s the intentionally confusable one. https://www.kimuagroup.com/news/differences-between-ce-and-china-export-markings/ https://www.kimuagroup.com/news/differences-between-ce-and-c... https://starfishmedical.com/resource/conformite-europeenne-mark-vs-a-china-export-mark/ https://starfishmedical.com/resource/conformite-europeenne-m...
- looperhacks 4mo agoThis gets parroted all the time, but I have never seen any proof that this is actually true. It's always this one image comparing the two, but never any real example. It's just unreliable sources copying from each other.
- okanat 4mo agoThere is a conspiracy theory for everyone it seems, even for the educated. No there is no "legitimate" Chinese-mandated CE that can ever be allowed in EU. It would completely destroy the trade relationship and cause Chinese underwriter labs to be completely banned from ever testing for CE marks. HOWEVER, there are a lot of fake CE marks printed by dodgy companies who make the same shitty products that gets imported via Temu. They are already in the business of selling contraband and dangerous factory seconds, no need for conspiracies to give a legitimate twist to their contraband business.
- lefra 4mo agoFor electronics without wireless functionality, it is allowed to self-certify. Anyone could also print whatever label they want on their products illegally (i.e. without doing the required paperwork to self-certify). The policemen controlling imports don't have the competency to check for faults, so we get this situation where specialists regularly sample the products, and heavy fines are issued to the importer.
- galangalalgol 4mo agoAnd for electronics with wireless, they still just ignore everything. No FCC ID, don't even have any silkscreening on the pcb or markings on the ICs. Nothing gets enforced.
- s_dev 4mo agoThe fine is the application of the law. Would be like getting arrested and demanding to know why the authorities aren't getting involved.
- MichaelZuo 4mo agoI think the parent is questioning how the fine relates to removing the goods from circulation? Or is the intention of the law to allow for an unlimited number of supposedly illegal goods to circulate freely within the EU, just fined appropriately?
- TazeTSchnitzel 4mo agoWith a few exceptions, those labels do not mean that the product has actually been tested or actually complies with the standard. They are a self-certification: CE means “I promise this complies with European norms”, but the entity deciding to print that on a product may not be honest. Small fly-by-night operations on the other side of the planet have little incentive to be honest. Generally speaking, international direct-to-consumer e-commerce is a problem for trying to enforce these kinds of rules. The whole model of checks at the border works well for massive bulk shipments, which not only are few enough in number that customs have a chance of doing a proper job on them, but there's also a commercial importer taking a large financial risk on the shipment and therefore 1) having an incentive to ensure they import something safe to begin with, 2) they can be practically fined/sued by authorities if they screw up. But when you have myriad tiny operations selling direct to consumers, the consumer is the importer, and there's no local representative for the manufacturer that you can actually sue. It's effectively a quite lawless area. Being able to do direct imports is an important freedom, and this kind of laxity is inevitable, but it's understandable the EU wants to do something about the flood of poor-quality goods that are terrible for fair competition, the environment, and health and safety.
- deleted 4mo ago[deleted]
- saaaaaam 4mo agoWho says the products don’t have fake CE labels stuck on? A CE label does not - as far as I can tell - have any security features.
- okanat 4mo agoYup, CE is self-declatory. To prove it, you need to actually check the documentation from the manufacturer's web page. Usually there are numbers for individual tests on the product.
- victorbjorklund 4mo agoHow would it be enforced? It is around 16 000 000 packages per day.
- pixel_popping 4mo agoRobots is the only way.
- victorbjorklund 4mo agoRobots doing what?
- pixel_popping 4mo agoChecking packages, with humanoids and other forms of robotics, it's possible that law enforcement will become efficient. Right now almost any package containing illegal substance will cross the US/EU without issue, that's due to human flaws, robots will be so much better at detecting stealth and so-on (also because Scent and Xray and so-on will be built-in them), the exact reason illicit marketplaces available on Tor exists is because of human flaws.
- victorbjorklund 4mo agoChecking what? Should they open 16 million packages per day and check if they have a CE sign that anyone can just fake?
- pixel_popping 4mo agoIt's not enough, I routinely order things with obvious fake labels or sometimes things I know ahead are clearly not CE compliant, and most packages can't be open due to the large amount, until we have robot warehouses, I don't think is solvable.
- PowerElectronix 4mo agoLaws are as good as they are enforced. With millions of widgets entering every day, most being very low cost, there's very little point in going one by one checking if they comply.