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Ask HN: Is anyone working at least 4 hours daily on an Apple Vision Pro?
I asked this in 2024 and would love to see the change: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41748125
- Smaug123 4mo agoI'm not, but is it yet possible to use the Vision Pro as a window manager for macOS? I'd totally get one if it were possible to lay out ordinary macOS windows in space rather than being confined to the simulation of a single rectangular screen.
- OkGoDoIt 4mo agoYeah this seems like an obvious thing that would make it a lot more useful. Sad that Apple is barely scratching the surface of what’s possible, and it’s too closed for third-party developers to attempt to do anything like that.
- Oreb 4mo agoAt least for now, no, it is not possible. I agree that what you describe is how it ought to work in an ideal world, but it would probably require some serious rethinking of macOS UI/UX in order to make it work. For instance, it is not obvious what’s the best way to transfer the dock and the menu bar to a screen-less environment. A hybrid solution I would love to see would be to have the current virtual screen, but with the option of dragging individual windows out of the screen.
- dwaite 4mo agoNo , at least not yet. On macOS, it is ultimately the app developer who is responsible for persisting and using state for windows, such as size and position. Think several terminal sessions - the terminal app needs to be the one to determine if it is representing the same 'session' as before after a restart. If you are talking about remote display in a 3D space, the application would need to understand how to track and reopen a window in a particular location, and also there would need to be policy on how say a resize on the Vision Pro relates to the native window size once the Vision Pro is turned off. This puts a lot of responsibility in the app developer's hands, where it is most likely not going to be accepted. So I would expect the experience to be sub-par. There could be interesting workarounds for full-screen windows, since there are already the concepts of multiple heterogenous displays and display resolution changes on macOS. So you might have a screen, but the 'full screen' button is replaced by one which breaks the window out. The challenge would be making these persistent across connections to the Mac in a way that apps work well by default without picking up odd heuristics.
- LoganDark 4mo agoI think the Steam Frame must support this once it comes out. Either first-party, or third-party. We've never had a trivially hackable, full-Linux HMD before. With known hardware like the Frame's, it should be incredibly possible to develop a VR-native Wayland compositor
- simonjgreen 4mo agoSo I was, for about a month. But I had to give it up due to, mainly, compatibility with MAM requirements for work and app quality. It’s so infuriating to me how good this hardware is yet how equally underinvested it is. I do enjoy it when I’m in a work type that is well supported. I would love deeper integration with macOS beyond just screen sharing too. Or alternatively a broader selection of native equivalent apps. There also seems to be an odd standoff between Apple and the streaming apps, eg no native YouTube, Netflix, Spotify, etc. Not that it impacts work, but it impacts consumer adoption. I’m very curious how this new era of Apple will respond…
- bitpush 4mo ago> There also seems to be an odd standoff between Apple and the streaming apps, eg no native YouTube, Netflix, Spotify, etc Apple made the bed when they openly were hostile to the developers. There's a reason why every platform courts the developers (Remember MS's "developers developers developers"). Apple could get away from being a jerk because the devices were attractive, and the distribution it offered was stellar. But it isnt the device that makes the platform successful, but the developers. And YouTube, Netflix, Spotify and the likes know this. So when AVP came along, for the first time, the power dynamics shifted. They didnt have to rush to the platform. Why should all these companies bend over backwards to make Apple's device a successful. And if they do the work, they'll be even more beholden to Apple's whims. So they decided to sit out. And cue the fall out. AVP hardwar is brilliant, but Apple overplayed its hand.
- F7F7F7 4mo agoThere’s a native YouTube app. And I don’t find myself missing the others. But besides the background noise from YouTube and Apple Music/Podcasts I don’t really consume media in mine. It’s a work tool.
- ShinyLeftPad 4mo ago>> There also seems to be an odd standoff between Apple and the streaming apps, eg no native YouTube, Netflix, Spotify, etc. > Apple made the bed when they openly were hostile to the developers. There's a reason why every platform courts the developers (Remember MS's "developers developers developers"). This is about relationships between different big corporations who are all platform owners and competitors. Apple was never hostile to regular developers. Apple got from the beginning that app ecosystem and therefore devs is a must. And in any case, AVP can't compete with iPhone, no one expected it at that price, and so developing apps for AVP would be a waste of time.
- DANmode 4mo agoNext thread’s the winner, for sure. Edit: Being serious…the big players have all began taking AR seriously verrry recently. Now they need to release hardware.
- madanparas 4mo agoIs Apple Vision Pro still alive, or is it on life support?
- Traubenfuchs 4mo agoThey'd need to bring out a perfected version with technology that does not exist at an impossibly low price point to bring it back to life.
- bigyabai 4mo agoSad thing is, the current hardware would be perfectly fine if Apple committed themselves on the software side at the level Valve does for the Steam Frame.
- dwaite 4mo agoValve hasn't committed to making a mixed reality computing platform, and Apple hasn't come out with a gaming VR headset. Neither company wants to directly compete.
- bigyabai 4mo agoApparently Apple can't commit to making mixed reality either. If they're going to sell an inside-out headset, they should at least support the software people buy for it. The "WebXR + iPad apps" library is very clearly a joke to most customers, especially at the price point Apple demands.
- m00dy 4mo agoAI is soaking up all kinds of capital, even money that used to go into VR.
- F7F7F7 4mo agoI do 4 hours a day minimum. Typically the first part of my day where I tend to have no meetings and can wear it uninterrupted. I’m sure I can get the virtual persona working in Meet and Zoom but I don’t want to creep anyone out. I’m in Ultrawide at 4k via a MBP or a Mac Mini. Wireless keyboard and wireless mouse. Typically multiple Ghostty windows open, an IDE, and a web browser with a bunch of tabs. If I have a podcast, YouTube or music playing in the background I do so via the AVP directly via the native app. Though I like virtual environments I don’t use them much. The amazing pass through (I have a Quest 3 and it’s not even remotely comparable) allows me to feel like I’m still IRL and be aware of my surroundings. And to see and interact with my wife who’s also remote if she happens to pass by. This need to touch grass is the same reason I typically don’t wear AirPods while in them. You can really get sucked in with virtual environments and AirPods on. No eye strain issues. Have had 20/20 my entire life and a year in still 20/20. We’ll see. It does get a little sweaty/heavy. I have the Apple double knit and the CM Global or whatever it’s called. I do have a decent office monitor setup with a 43” OLED and LG Dual-ups. I don’t use it much since getting the AVP as I like moving around the house.
- santiagobasulto 4mo agoI don't own Apple Vision Pro, but I tested them two times already and I'm amazed by the technology. I honestly think it's the future. We're probably WAY too early yet, and the Vision Pro might fail badly, but it is indeed the future. I did a special test session in Japan for "productivity" (the guys at the Apple Store were very friendly and agreed to let me install VSCode and Ghostty on the testing laptop. I cloned an open source repository and spent ~20 minutes just coding. It was FANTASTIC. The Apple Store was full and I could still "black out" the noise and completely immersed myself in the experience. I'm seriously considering buying a pair now, but I'm just concerned about the under-investment in the sector. Regardless, I honestly think it's the future, maybe in 10/20 years, but it'll be the norm.
- worldsavior 4mo agoFunny you say it's the future when the project was scraped. I don't think people want to live in a fake world.
- F7F7F7 4mo agoThe project has not been scraped or scrapped. Any outlet that reported that walked it back. It’s reportedly put on hold while they work on the glasses. Its fate might ultimately end up all the same. I own a AVP and it’s super niche. Can’t blame Apple for putting their attention on the more wearable glasses form factor. Also, in the year that I’ve owned my AVP I can count on one hand the amount of times I’ve been in full VR/immersive. And I use it everyday.
- stingraycharles 4mo agoIt’s unlike Apple to be too early with something. Usually it’s the competition and they show how it should really be done. I guess the main problem here is the price point, which will improve over time and with scale.
- 0bytes 4mo ago
- ladberg 4mo agoI'll work for 4+ hours straight in my Vision Pro when I'm on a plane or train, but when I'm in a less cramped place I'd rather just use a normal screen
- F7F7F7 4mo agoThat’s interesting. I’ve yet to wear it around any other human beings other than my immediate family. I’m also more than happy breaking it out in my hotel room. Couldn’t imagine wearing it on a plane or train and would rather use my much more discreet laptop directly.
- ladberg 4mo agoIf anything I think the Vision Pro is more discreet on a plane! No big bright screen to annoy or distract other passengers with, plus I can keep my laptop nearly clamshelled on my lap while I work without having to use the tray table
- ninininino 4mo agoWhy does the opinion of strangers especially anonymous strangers you'll probably never see again matter to you?
- Tepix 4mo agoI'm curious if anyone is using the competing Samsung Galaxy XR headset with similar display resolution as a monitor replacement also.
- JeremyHerrman 4mo agoI think of the AVP like Steve Jobs once described: headphones for video [0] I use it a few hours a day, a few times a week exclusively as a virtual display for my macbook. Being able to put a huge virtual monitor anywhere is the killer feature and I don't tend to use it for anything else. It's indispensable on flights where laptop lids can't even fully open. Apple got the interactions just about perfect for AR window management, etc. Of course the main drawbacks are the weight, size, and overall embarrassment from having a giant face computer strapped to your head. I don't find it very comfortable for more than a couple hours at time, at least with the solo knit band + the belkin head strap. I'd like to get a dual knit band at some point. But when this sort of hardware gets miniaturized I think many people will prefer it to hunching over a laptop screen. Just like headphones, wearing glasses while typing at a black screen could signal "Do not disturb, I'm working here" [0] Steve Jobs on Virtual Reality (D3, 2005) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQECSInWVPY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQECSInWVPY
- akie 4mo ago> overall embarrassment You're right, and it's also why this device is such a non sequitur for Apple. Almost all of their successful products are trendsetting and cool (iPhone, mac, airpods), this is one causes embarrassment and I just don't think it's fixable.
- amelius 4mo agoFor privacy, at least it looks better than the alternative, the laptop sock: https://www.instructables.com/Laptop-Compubody-Sock/ https://www.instructables.com/Laptop-Compubody-Sock/
- xuf 4mo agoAs I remember, and supported by the article quoted below, AirPods were ridiculed quite a bit when first launched. >Of all the widely ridiculed tech products, Apple’s AirPods have experienced an extraordinary turnaround. Back in 2016, they were roundly mocked by the tech industry. Tiny wireless earbuds? It seemed like a recipe for disaster – streets would be littered with these lost headphones, which would clutter up city pavements like discarded gloves and babies’ socks." – https://www.theguardian.com/technology/shortcuts/2019/feb/10/how-did-apples-airpods-go-from-mockery-to-millennial-status-symbol https://www.theguardian.com/technology/shortcuts/2019/feb/10... Relevant Reddit thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/51yazy/this_is_what_airpods_look_like_from_the_front/ https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/51yazy/this_is_what_...
- Mariajaved906 4mo ago[flagged]
- cadamsdotcom 4mo agoI already don’t own an AVP and look forward to also not buying the next gen they come out with. If it wasn’t hampered by iOS and could run more than just the app store then maybe.
- boomskats 4mo agoI far prefer my Viture XR glasses to the vision pro. Pretty sure this was also the case in 2024 :)
- swiftcoder 4mo agoSo this is something I've been wondering. How much does the extra ~$3k of functionality on the Vision Pro contribute to pure coding workflows, versus one of the many sub-$1k "virtual TV in a pair of glasses" products?
- boomskats 4mo agoI like having control over font hinting and aliasing and stuff, so I really prefer the latter. I found the AVP fun at first, but then after a few days it started to get more and more annoying- whereas the Vitures were a bit annoying at first, but then just became amazing after my eyes/brain got used to them. Almost overnight. Niri makes a huge difference. As does something like this https://github.com/boomskats/woahland https://github.com/boomskats/woahland
- porcoda 4mo agoI use it a few times a week for about that long, almost exclusively as a virtual display for my MacBook. I bought it mostly because I travel for work, and when I'm stuck in a hotel and want to work I wanted something similar to my big screens at home. It's also nice to be able to kick back and watch big screen movies or TV on travel too. Long usage is fine for me - with the inserts I have my computer glasses prescription so things look good.
- Oreb 4mo agoYes. I spend maybe half of the year (on average) away from home, traveling with my MacBook. I bought the Vision Pro to use as a portable display, and I’ve been extremely happy with it. I work in it about 8 hours per day whenever I’m away from my home office setup, and quite often even when I’m at home. Having an enormous virtual screen is not the only benefit, I also feel that the immersion helps my focus. It’s easier to get into the zone than ever before. I remember someone describing the Vision Pro as the equivalent of noise-canceling headphones for the eyes, which is spot on. I suppose I am lucky that I don’t have any problems with the weight of the comfort, except on hot days. I’ve been an Apple enthusiast since the 1980s, but I can’t even remember the last time I was as excited about an Apple product as I am about the Vision Pro. I hope it will survive, come down in price, and launch in more countries.
- Frannky 4mo agoI hope they can figure out a cheaper and less bulky option. It's pretty cool to unlock the ability to have a screen and apps popping up in the real space without the constraint of a screen. I would not pay all that money to have something on that is that bulky and get annoying after a couple of hours
- frizlab 4mo agoI bought the device 5 days ago! So far I like it. There are a few flaws (the most annoying being the glare visible when showing high contrast things, e.g. a movie on a dark background, and the text not being crisp for coding). I see myself working 4h+ a day on it though, yes, but it’s early to tell.
- jwr 4mo agoI'm also curious. I bought the cheap alternative: XReal One Pro and… it is kind of as expected. It is a cheap alternative. Don't expect to use it for coding for several hours a day, in spite of what people keep saying. The optics are not up to it: there are imperfections in the lenses resulting in blurry areas of the screen, very visible as you move your head around. They are great for watching video, make for a fantastic travel accessory, and one can use them for coding in a pinch, but I honestly couldn't find a good reason to, when I have a perfectly good MacBook Pro screen right in front of me. I would definitely pay more for glasses that would allow me to have a better virtual computer display. Perhaps not $3500, but $2000? The main reason why I didn't even consider Apple Vision Pro is because of its humongous size, weight and complexity — I don't want another computer with another (locked down) OS requiring updates and maintenance. I want things that do not require anything of me. This is why XReal glasses are so nice: they are just a display. No battery, no OS, no maintenance. EDIT: Just to clarify, I am very happy with the Xreal One Pro purchase. They provide excellent value. They are light, they are small, I can toss them in a bag to have a private display whenever I need. They are fantastic for travel and overall provide a great value. I would highly recommend them. Just don't expect them to be a better screen than your laptop screen for coding.
- lukestevens 4mo agoThat's a very interesting comparison thanks. Hard to believe one is 87g and the other is ~800g and there's not much in-between!
- ganonm 4mo agoI've been using the XReal One Pros for coding work for a few months now, and have had a great experience. For me, the ergonomic benefits are the selling point, not the display quality. Not having to sit hunched over a laptop screen for several hours means I can work almost anywhere. Sometimes I'll use it in a cafe. Other times I just lie down in bed. I also make use of speech to text, so I just need to be able to press a hotkey and reach the track pad. On the topic of display quality, it's important to use Better display to upscale the output to the XReals to high DPI - that gives noticeably better quality when it's downscaled to the (lower) native resolution of the XReals.
- shideneyu 4mo agoAs most of us I started using it but gradually stopped. It shoes signs of discontinuation I have seen also ?
- Regina0727 4mo agoYes! But not very often
- itrunsdoomguy 4mo agoI use them just for playing Doom.
- zorobo 4mo agoI am spending about three hours a day using my AVP. Not getting headaches or anything like that. I don’t have a suitable MacBook or Mac mini so no virtual display. For development work, I use webterm (webified ghostty) via Safari to connect to servers. Then it is emacs all the way. It’s a real treat and I can use it anywhere.
- prmoustache 4mo agoAre you guys doing 4 hours straight? A relative is an ophtalmologist and she told me that when working on a screen we should at least follow the basic 20rule of pausing every 20minutes to look and focus 20feet away for at least 20 seconds to avoid having dry eyes and eye strain. Even on a regular screen I am usually so focused in my task I don't do that unless I am interrupted by someone and/or set an alarm. I imagine it would be even more difficult with a Vision Pro as you'd have to unstrap the thing from your head.
- lugu 4mo agoI am no doctor, but as you said, you need to release the strain in your eyes by looking away. I suppose that is something you can do with this class of devices as each eye has their own screen. This said, I have never used any type of VR headset.
- peroids 4mo agoYes, I work 8+ hours a day and love it. I find it difficult to go back to regular screens.
- hbwang2076 4mo agoThe ones that stick tend to solve one narrow problem really well rather than trying to be a platform. I'd look for tools with a clear opinion on workflow.
- exchange_only 4mo ago[flagged]
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- durul 4mo ago[flagged]
- bm5k 4mo agoI was until new corp rules prevented me from using personal devices.
- hannahstrawbrry 4mo agoNot using an HMD regularly anymore but I'd like to ask other current/former XR devs- have you noticed any issues with your eyes/neck that you suspect could be tied to extensive time in-headset? I am currently in physical therapy for some head/neck problems and I am realizing how much I had trained myself to _not_ use my peripheral vision. If I look at something, I turn my head so it's in the "sweet spot" of my vision rather than moving my eyes. I imagine this would only get worse with extended AVP usage due to the heavy use of eye tracking for control.
- dubeye 4mo agoI was a heavy quest user but I think it ruined my eyes a bit and I needed glasses after having 20 20. Could be standard aging but the correlation was very strong
- qup 4mo agoYou need glasses to see far-away stuff now? Doing close work with your eyes can cause your ciliary muscles (they flex your lenses to focus) to be overworked. They seize up, and lose the ability to relax to their former length. When your lens can't relax, you can no longer focus to infinity. "Nearpoint stress" is the term I believe
- al_borland 4mo agoI bought one a few months ago and ended up returning it without the 2 week return window. Actual work is a non-starter, since screen mirroring inside the VP requires the laptop be logged into iCloud, and the same iCloud account… both of which my company does not allow. On my personal laptop, I tried it for about 10 minutes and didn’t see the point. It felt like technology for technology’s sake and wasn’t adding anything truly meaningful to the experience. The buggy window manager and bulk of the headset would require it add a lot of value to make it worth it. While it could be my eyes, I also didn’t find it all that clear. Some things seemed tacky sharp, while other things looked blurry. This really made me uncomfortable.
- Musicanimator 4mo agoMy longest sessions have exceeded 12 hours, my daily working average being 2-4 hours with peaks of 6-8 hours at least twice a week. As an old soldier the weight was not a problem. I look like a monster wearing my AVP, and I spend 4 hours or more every Saturday wearing it with my AVP Companions in the social app InSpaze, all stunning masters of this possible future, Animating the music I’m DJing while I stream the performance on twitch. We keep up on tech news and talk about all aspects of professional media production. As a media producer and engineering support provider to the entertainment industry for more than 30 years I remain excited and these clickbait coverages are what is really dooming the possibilities.