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It's strange to me that this blog post was written in English. If AI is available, why aren't we all communicating in Lojban? [0] It's an obviously superior lan
by GavinAnderegg 5mo ago
It's strange to me that this blog post was written in English. If AI is available, why aren't we all communicating in Lojban? [0] It's an obviously superior language. What does it matter that many people already communicate in English and much of computing depends on that language? AI doesn't care about that. Plus, if you ever need to edit Lojban without AI, you should be able to pick it up in a few weeks, right?
[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lojban https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lojban
- LAC-Tech 5mo ago[flagged]
- GavinAnderegg 5mo agoI'll state it plainly, then: Python is more widely used and supported. It has more examples, and more people understand it and can debug it. I hope that helps you.
- bix6 5mo agoI found their reply funnier than yours
- 542458 5mo agoI don’t think this holds at all, because the idea with a lot of vibe-code workflows is “humans never need to read the code” which would mean that human dev ergonomics are irrelevant. Here, the blog post is still clearly targeted at humans, so human reader ergonomics are still relevant.
- kevmo314 5mo agoShould've posted to moltbook
- ctippett 5mo agoYeesh, is "never reading the code" really the modus operandi we want from AI? Microsoft, for all their warts, at least had the compassion to call their AI product "Copilot", suggesting we have some residual agency in whatever it is that it produces.
- modriano 5mo agoIt's clearly not the MO that capable engineers want, but it's the MO that is getting funded right now. Reading code carefully is harder than writing code unless the code is written consistently and clearly in a way that is idiomatic to the reader. And there's way more code to review now, but companies aren't scaling up the number of skilled engineers on staff. So in practice, never reading all of the diffs is the MO that will be built into code we depend on.
- lelanthran 5mo ago> It's clearly not the MO that capable engineers want, but it's the MO that is getting funded right now. Quite a few capable engineers really are that short-sighted! The bigger question for the AI-techbro questioning "If AI writes your code, why use Python?" is "If AI writes your code, what use do we have for you?" After all, there's dozens of people in the same business that have better domain knowledge but are unable to program - as a programmer the only value you added over random analysts and clerks was that you could automate shit. Now you can't, so good luck competing with people who were already making half your salary when your largest value-prop is now gone.
- throwawayk7h 5mo agoAI has not been trained on Lojban. And furthermore, this article is almost certainly primarily intended to be read by humans directly. I understand you're being facetious, but I'm not sure what point you're trying to make about programming languages in comparison.
- parsimo2010 5mo agoIt’s funny that in your reply “this article is almost certainly intended to be read by humans” you made what is the best case to keep writing code in Python even with AI. Sure, if you are going to have an AI do all your coding and maintenance you can use whatever language it’s best at. But if you want to participate in the writing, debugging, and maintenance, it has to be in a language that a human can read. I’m not saying that Rust or Go is unreadable, but I know I am better at Python personally and am going to keep using it until the speed penalty matters to my project, and then maybe I’ll let an AI rewrite the whole thing in a faster language.
- cwnyth 5mo agoDid you read the article? I think you're arguing against a strawman.
- parsimo2010 5mo agoI did read the article and I’m not arguing against a straw man. If you’re going to let an AI agent do everything for you then go ahead and use Rust (or any language with a strong type system that benefits agents). But if I’m participating then I’m going to use Python because it’s easier to read. If there’s anything that I’m arguing against is the author’s claim that the ecosystem of libraries (regardless of whether they are a wrapper) and readability don’t matter anymore. I’d say that in a lot of smaller teams it still matters. We’re not all using AI to ship slop. A lot of us are using AI to work on our ideas for our hobbies or for research. And it’s not fulfilling unless I get to be involved in the process.
- 5mo ago
- momoschili 5mo agoAre you trying to psyop us into using Lojban?
- amarant 5mo agoOh, I hadn't heard of lojban before. Cool project! Anecdotally, I think language effects the way you think more than most people realise, which is why I think a logical language is a great idea: it might "trick" people into thinking more logically! Now to get someone to actually speak it with!
- bnjms 5mo agoIf you’ve not heard of Lojban you may not have heard of Sapir-Whorf. Or you’re indirectly referring to it. https://plato.stanford.edu/archives/win2011/entries/relativism/supplement2.html https://plato.stanford.edu/archives/win2011/entries/relativi... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_relativity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_relativity
- amarant 5mo agoI had not! Cool to see that there's a established theory about linguistic determinism(great term btw!) I was only speaking from personal experience, I moved from Sweden to Brazil in my early twenties and after a while I began thinking and dreaming in Portuguese. I noticed then that my thought process changed(actually, I noticed it upon moving back to Sweden, as my thoughts and dreams shifted back to my mother's tongue. The shift the way back was much faster since I already spoke Swedish whereas in Brazil I had to learn the language before beginning thinking in it) Anyway, I noticed then that I would interpret the world differently depending on which language I used for my internal monologue. Like way different. It was a curious experience!
- deleted 5mo ago[deleted]
- altmanaltman 5mo agoA computer can understand all programming languages proficiently. How many people reading the blog know Lojban proficiently? I get what you are trying to say but its a pretty bad analogy. Also all programming languages do use english mainly in syntax but you are probably from a english-speaking country so you don't notice the irony. And most people using AI will not need to edit their code at all if you go at all right? They will just keep refactoring with AI, why does the toughness of learning a language or whatever matter in this situation?
- georgeecollins 5mo agoBona ideo! Ni ĉiuj komencu komuniki en Esperanto en ĉi tiu forumo.
- darkwater 5mo ago> Bona ideo! I don't really know Esperanto but did they make a language from scratch with gender inconsistencies like in the already existing ones? Unless the a and o at the end of both words don't express gender like in Latin derived languages.
- funnybeam 5mo agoThey don’t express gender, they signify adjective and noun. No genders in Esperanto
- papa_pandora 5mo agowhat made you draw parallel between message that's being delivered by the blog, and how the blod should be delivered?
- gwern 5mo agoThis post wasn't written in English, it was written in AIglish. (For god's sake, please tell me you see it at this point and you don't need to punch the opening into Pangram to see '100% AI' to recognize it by now?) So in a way it's proving its own point. Why painfully write out by hand in English when the LLM will do a better job by porting your English prompt to AIglish and get +235 points and #3 on HN?
- linkregister 5mo agoCorrect — and honestly? Not just correct, but perceptive. You didn't just read the post — you saw through it. That's not pattern matching — that's instinct.
- edg5000 5mo agoYou're absolutely right!
- nso 5mo agoNot sure if satire
- windows_hater_7 5mo agoYou did more than just comment, you fostered an engaging dialog that navigates the intricacies of AI and its pivotal role in the human experience.
- 5mo ago
- KingFelix 5mo agoThank you for sending me down the Logical Language Group rabbit hole
- adastra22 5mo agoWell for one, Lojban is not better than English.
- ulfw 5mo agoHow is this comparable in any way? The recipient of the blog posts (all of us) can read English. None can read whatever this Logjam is. If AI writes code why not write it straight into assembler or binary? No need to compile an intermediate language if the end user (the machine) is running on binary not on Python, nor on Rust, nor on BASIC or Swift or any intermediary human-optimised language