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Brazil's Pix payment system faces pressure from Visa and Mastercard
- bell-cot 6mo agoIt would be Un-American to overlook any chance to forcibly intervene in a Latin America country for the financial benefit of a large American company...wouldn't it?
- manoDev 6mo agohttps://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/12/america-250-presidential-message-on-the-anniversary-of-the-monroe-doctrine/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/12/amer...
- jacknews 6mo agoEvery country should have this. Why would you let America take 2-3% of your transaction volumes? It perhaps made sense when the technology was difficult, and America was trusted, but ...
- hvb2 6mo agoI misunderstood, psd2 is Europe's equivalent. And yes, every country should have this. Even America
- Daedren 6mo agoPSD2 is merely a framework for an uniform access to banking, same APIs everywhere. While you can send money through it, it's still through the same means as normal. Many of the european countries have their own "Pix", but there's no European-wide alternative. The ECB wants to make one (tentatively titled "digital euro"), but it's going to take a long time to come out.
- pcardoso 6mo agoThere are plans for interoperability between the various European payment apps. My local app (MB Way, PT) can be used to send money to Spain and Italy. Others will follow. https://www.mbway.pt/a-interoperabilidade-e-o-futuro-dos-pagamentos-transferencia-internacional-agora-ja-e-possivel-com-mb-way/ https://www.mbway.pt/a-interoperabilidade-e-o-futuro-dos-pag... (link in portuguese)
- Daedren 5mo agoYes but this is merely an abstraction of SEPA Instant transfers to not have to write an IBAN when sending money. The issue to solve is payments, Portugal for instance has its Multibanco payment scheme, but it's only used in Portugal. I assume eventually it'll be cobranded with Wero like it happened to Netherlands' iDEAL and eventually fully replaced.
- boudin 6mo agoWero is the alternative, it's moving on quite well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wero_(payment) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wero_(payment)
- KK7NIL 6mo ago> Why would you let America take 2-3% of your transaction volumes? I don't think VISA/Mastercard takes such a fee? (They'd be some of the biggest companies in the world if they did.) The fees they charge are actually fractions of a percent, the rest are charged by the card issuer, which is usually your bank. You could, in theory, use the VISA network and not pay those fees to a card issuer.
- surgical_fire 6mo agoStill greater than 0. There's absolutely no reason for a country to outsource paynent infrastructure to US corporations.
- cyberax 6mo ago> You could, in theory, use the VISA network and not pay those fees to a card issuer. You can not. The only way is to have a private agreement with the card issuer. That's why stores all try to push their co-branded cards.
- ExpertAdvisor01 6mo agoIt's interesting that we live in 2026 and people still don't understand the fees of credit card processing. Visa charges only a Assessment fee the majority goes to Issuer Bank +PSP. E.g: Interchange fee (0.8-1.8%): Paid by acquirer to issuer (card-holding bank) Assessment fee (0.1-0.3%): Paid to card network (Visa, Mastercard) Acquirer margin (0.3-0.8%): Retained by merchant’s payment processor
- guntars 6mo agoThe banks and the payment processors are the real customers of the payment networks and they all do better when they can squeeze more money from the end users - the cardholders and the businesses. Pix cuts out these middlemen and that’s an existential threat to their business model, ergo an “investigation” by the Trump admin.
- Scaled 6mo agoThe army of middlemen with their hands out is the worst part, where you also have fees paid to the merchant bank, the iso/payment service provider, and a chain of agents. In disfavored industries like adult content, this can reach 15% or more, plus thousands in annual "high risk" fees (even if chargeback rate is good). It's a huge anticompetitive racket, and the sooner US can shake off Visa/MasterCard, the better off we'll be.
- varispeed 6mo agoAll should be free. Imagine if government decided to impose 3% revenue tax, yet these companies get a free pass. If these networks cannot run this for free, then they should be nationalised and tax payer should cover it. It will be cheaper (because it will become non-profit) for everyone and better.
- laurencerowe 6mo agoCash handling also costs businesses money so I'm not sure it needs to be free, just strictly regulated.
- 6mo ago
- gib444 6mo ago> Why would you let America take 2-3% of your transaction volumes? And spy on every single transaction
- expedition32 6mo agoIt made sense back in the 1970s when it was hard for an American to pay for a hotel room in Manilla. But in 2026 data moves in a micro second from one continent to another.
- dyauspitr 6mo agoExactly and if you think 2-3% is a small number you should keep in mind that that is effectively half of what the market returns over the long-term at 7%.
- usrnm 6mo ago> Every country should have this Many countries do, it's really more common than you might think. The problem is international payments and things like tourism. Want to order something from another country? Want to go there for a week and not have to use cash? In most cases it's either Visa or MasterCard.
- marcosdumay 6mo agoHeh, Lula has a just slight lead on the elections this year. If he cedes to the pressure, odds are he will so completely destroy his popularity that he won't even be able to be a candidate. He almost certainly knows that. The pressure is irrelevant. Pix is not going away.
- mrkramer 6mo agoPix is for domestic use right? So tourists who come to Brazil still use Visa and Mastercard as well as Brazilian tourists who travel abroad. Visa and Mastercard are companies of the past, crypto and stablecoins will destroy them sooner or later.
- SirFatty 6mo ago"crypto and stablecoins will destroy them sooner or later." LOL!
- mrkramer 6mo agoI meant digital dollar and digital euro, you won't need Visa and Mastercard anymore.
- cyberax 6mo agoDollar is already "digital", and has been for the last 50 years or so.
- mrkramer 6mo agoI meant this https://www.federalreserve.gov/central-bank-digital-currency.htm https://www.federalreserve.gov/central-bank-digital-currency..., this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_euro https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_euro and this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_renminbi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_renminbi
- cyberax 6mo agoIt's just buzzwordy bullshit. The European system is just a classic credit/debit system. The Chinese system is a bit more sophisticated, with offline capability and smart contracts. But it doesn't use any distributed proof-of-work/stake stuff.
- wslh 6mo ago
- madhacker 6mo agoHey Visa/Mastercard — try that move in China and see how well it turns out.
- yorwba 6mo agoHappens all the time: https://ustr.gov/search?q=initiates+section+301+investigations+China https://ustr.gov/search?q=initiates+section+301+investigatio...
- g8oz 6mo agoDespite what the White House thinks American companies are not owed a business model.
- bell-cot 6mo ago...unless they generously grease the right palms, or push the right "us vs. them" buttons.
- dbolgheroni 6mo agoPeople underestimate how difficult it was to transfer money before Pix, even between local banks. The process was hard to use, it could take days and the fees were huge, depending on your bank. Pix solved all these problems. What happens also is that many sellers provide discounts when using Pix, because you dodge the expensive fees charged not only by Visa and MasterCard, but the fees operators (banks, fintechs) charge to provide the infrastructure (PoS machines, financing for installments, etc, the last one being quite common in the country) to use these networks.
- protastus 6mo agoI think we need to put this in context for folks who are not from Brazil. Comparatively, a domestic bank wire in Brazil before Pix was already easier and faster than one in the US today. I don't recall the bank fees being bad either. The issue is that bank wires were never designed for buying lunch at the food court. They're not instant and not user friendly to set up. Pix is alien technology next to the stuff we have in the US.
- Freak_NL 6mo agoIt sounds a bit like the Dutch Tikkie with the QR codes and instant transfer. Of course, in the EU most bank wires are already free when using SEPA, and often nearly instant as well. This Tikkie thing is a way to easily create a payment request for people who can't be arsed to simply carry cash (and raise the country's resilience to system failure in the process).
- iurisilvio 6mo agoBrazilian living in NL, experienced in both. I think biggest difference is Tikkie doesn't give you an easy identifier. Great for privacy, but being able to send money to your email/phone number makes a difference for some real time use cases. QR code helps, but it is not the same.
- usrnm 6mo ago
- jnettome 6mo agoHow difficult is for USA administration learn good practices and initiatives and think into implementing those? And also, why Master and Visa haven’t came with a solution where they integrate with all of that and innovate? This idea that all they do should be de facto standard for the whole world is so démodé.
- protastus 6mo agoMy understanding is that FedNow could become something like Pix, but implementation is voluntary. In Brazil, the central bank required all retail banks of significance to implement Pix by a certain deadline. Visa and Mastercard are very much against FedNow becoming widely used, as it would destroy their business.
- yndoendo 6mo agoFor what MAGA views as good for the USA is actually deplorable loss for the civilized world.
- protocolture 6mo ago>And also, why Master and Visa haven’t came with a solution where they integrate with all of that and innovate? There are a lot of people who integrate with them. The issue is that anyone who does so must comply with the PCIDSS. Most hobbyists cant stretch that far and use intermediaries. >This idea that all they do should be de facto standard for the whole world is so démodé. I dont know what Brazil's issues were, but Visa and Mastercard show up, they integrate with terminal providers directly and indirectly, and they bring a battle tested data security standard with them. Compared to other industries they are basically self regulating, and in some countries they adopt the PCI DSS into law.
- shpx 6mo agoIt's surprising that Visa and Mastercard are even private companies. I expected that the government would be in charge of money and not let a group of people impose a 1-3% tax on their population. In the US, credit cards account for "71% of nationwide retail sales dollars". Governments aren't competent enough to do tech stuff well and they would never make something that works in a different country as well as credit cards do, but still.
- deleted 6mo ago[deleted]
- ronsor 6mo agoBanks are private companies. The Federal Reserve is partially private.
- rbanffy 6mo ago> a group of people impose a 1-3% tax on their population. It seems the consensus is that a taxes are only bad if you have to pay the government. If it's a small set of companies that collectively own a virtual monopoly, it's because they earned it.
- contingencies 6mo agoCompetition is for losers. - Peter Thiel
- Qem 6mo agoThis is probably the Holy Grail of neoliberalism: Even taxes are privatized!
- sowbug 6mo agoIf half my local plumber's profits go to private equity, it's capitalism. If half go to taxes, it's socialism.
- tardedmeme 6mo agoMost countries have some kind of bank wire system that is in charge of the money itself. Cards are pre-authorization system. The movement of money is authorized when you swipe the card, but not actually moved until up to a few days later, through the existing bank wire systems. If there's a currency conversion involved it can be even trickier.
- pimeys 6mo agoIn EU we have multiple national systems, but now they are trying to unify them to the IBAN system, so you can pay in the same way by opening your bank app and scanning a QR code: https://wero-wallet.eu/ https://wero-wallet.eu/ My bank (N26) should support this later this year. I hope it becomes as big and successful as Pix.
- laurencerowe 6mo agoWero sounds similar to the US Zelle system but the big reason for that to exist in the first place is that bank account numbers are not safe to share in the US since they can be used to pull payments so there was never an option for easily transferring money to friends and family other than writing a cheque. In the UK and Europe I could just share my bank account number or IBAN and make payments through online banking since the late 1990s (though in the UK they only became instant in 2008.) So Wero sounds like a nice convenience but much less of a game changer. It will be interesting to see if it manages to expand to goods and services since the EU strictly regulates the fees Visa and Mastercard can charge there so there is less incentive to switch than in some other countries.
- pimeys 6mo agoI think the biggest reason is sovereignty: we cannot risk US cutting our payment system if they for example don't give Greenland for them. I think this is the biggest reason to ensure you can pay with a local system in shops and restaurants.
- laurencerowe 6mo agoThat's a very reasonable concern, though given how central Visa and Mastercard are I suspect it is probably necessary to regulate their structures within the EU so that intra-EU payments are not reliant on non-sovereign infrastructure.
- markvdb 6mo agoRegulating US companies operating in the EU still leaves a kill switch in untrusted hands. It doesn't solve issues like the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolas_Guillou https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolas_Guillou problem.
- ChrisArchitect 6mo agoSome coverage from September: Brazil's Homegrown Payment System Is Target of Trump Admin https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/29/world/americas/brazil-digital-payments.html?unlocked_article_code=1.pk8.aUFu.fgk_2mIqchFF&smid=url-share https://www.nytimes.com/2025/09/29/world/americas/brazil-dig...
- cloche 6mo ago> Since 2022, Mastercard Brazil’s CEO, Marcelo Tangioni, has voiced his concerns: “Pix is great, beneficial for the industry. What’s not great is that it falls under the Central Bank. It can’t regulate and compete at the same time”. Why not? This is such an American point of view that sounds similar to why the IRS doesn't offer easier tax filing options.
- surgical_fire 6mo agoThis is a free market. All he has to do is offer a better service than the public offering. I always hear that the government is inefficient, should be easy no?
- fmobus 6mo agoWhenever people start arguing about inefficient government they should be reminded that pix costs like 10M USD a year to run. An absolute bargain for what it delivers.
- matheusmoreira 6mo ago[flagged]
- Lvl999Noob 6mo ago> Pix is already 100% surveilled And Visa and MasterCard aren't surveiled? Isn't one of their selling points that they surveil every transaction and automatically block anything suspicious? And increasingly, the parameters for suspicious include anything pornographic or even 'pornographic' (see: the bullying of steam to remove explicit games). At least with Pix, the costs get lower for the end users.
- matheusmoreira 6mo agoOf course they are. Theirs is a more corporate surveillance, though. I'm genuinely afraid of what the brazilian government can do with this sort of data.
- mikeweiss 6mo agoWhen ever I visit Brazil now I feel very left out for not having Pix! I wanna join the electronic cash club. Don't think it's possible for foreigners tho
- yangm97 6mo agoIt should be possible, they issue CPF numbers even for tourists if you want.
- mikeweiss 6mo agoProblem is you need a Brazilian bank account... Opening a foreign bank account creates tax nightmares.
- martheen 6mo agoAh, so they're leaving the money on the table. I suppose they're worried about money laundering. Indonesia's electronic wallet have two tiers, unverified and verified. You don't even need a bank account (because most people don't), just a local number (which even tourist can buy easily at airport), with the limitation on unverified tier is that you can only top it up (by cash if you don't have local bank account) and spend it on merchant, no receiving nor sending money. There's also transaction limit but most of the population won't cross that in normal days.
- cesarb 6mo agoThe reason Pix needs a Brazilian bank account, is that at its core, it's just a bank transfer mechanism, like the older TED or DOC. Pix sends money from one bank account to another bank account. The main novelties are being instant, working 24h per day, and being able to use keys like a phone number or email as destinations (the Brazilian Central Bank has a central database which maps these keys to the bank account numbers).
- voxleone 6mo ago[dead]
- bill38 6mo agoIn India there is 'UPI' system that is similar.
- scheme271 6mo agoSeems fairly logical for any large country to create something like this. Visa/MC is nice but allows the US to apply undue pressure to individuals. E.g. the US applied financial sanctions on ICC officials in the EU resulting in them losing access to Visa/MC credit cards and banks even those are that are purely EU based.
- acarmoi 6mo ago[dead]
- bell-cot 6mo ago> Visa/MC is nice but allows ... Not sure how it is overseas - but in the US, the #1 problem with Visa/MC is the huge percentage that they skim off every transaction. Businesses running on tight profit margins often give a discount if you pay with cash instead.
- scheme271 5mo agoI think the fees are on order of 1-3% depending on your risk and business type. Certainly an issue but it's mitigated a bit by the decreased costs of going cashless. I.e. cashless operations avoids theft by employees; overhead for stocking, counting, and handling money; reduced insurance due to less chances of robbery; etc.
- bell-cot 5mo agoGas stations in my area often give a 3% discount for paying with cash, vs. credit. Leading me to suspect that they're paying 3%+ to Visa/MC. And that the benefits of cashless are nowhere near what its proponents claim.
- airstrike 6mo agoI've been living abroad for over a decade now, so I never got to experience Pix. I went back to Brazil a few years ago for a couple of weeks, and a kid on the streets asked me if I could buy some chewing gum and help him out. I wanted to, but I had no cash, so I told him I had no cash at all. He said "It's fine, just send me some with Pix". I still remember the incredulous look on his face when I told him I also didn't have Pix. He was certain I was lying. "_Everyone_ has it. How come you don't?"
- pelasaco 6mo agohad the same experience.. "how come you dont have Pix?"
- cesarb 6mo ago> "_Everyone_ has it. How come you don't?" To put it in context: everyone with a Brazilian bank account can use Pix. That's the reason "everyone" has it.
- airstrike 6mo agoThat's underselling it. Even people without a bank account have Pix.
- dannyr 6mo agoPhilippines has QR/Instapay. Not sure if it's complete equivalent of PIX. But basically you can scan a QR code and you can pay using any bank or digital wallet.
- burnJS 6mo agoBrazil can do this. Why can't we?
- esperent 6mo agoVietnam has a system like this too, QR based and free. India has UPI.
- martheen 6mo agoQR payments are ubiquitous in South East Asia. The eventual goal is ASEAN-wide interoperability, and some are even already interoperable with South Korean, Japanese and Chinese counterparts. And as expected, the US is also complaining about those, merely because Americans can't grasp the concept, like how they lag on pin adoption.
- throwaway473825 6mo agoMost likely because your country's banks are heavily lobbying against such initiatives. It's easy to blame Visa and Mastercard, but the reason why the EU doesn't have this is that the EPP (the largest political group in the European Parliament) answers to European banks, which don't want it.
- jeroenhd 6mo agoThe EU is literally working on an alternative as we speak: https://www.ecb.europa.eu/euro/digital_euro/html/index.en.html https://www.ecb.europa.eu/euro/digital_euro/html/index.en.ht... I think the cryptocurrency-based implementation is stupid and a product of its time, but the EU is investing a lot of money into a system to push Visa and Mastercard out. Many countries have their own payment systems already, often widely successful. Integration between these systems has been annoying but things have started to centralize on two or three systems across Europe now.
- throwaway473825 6mo agoThe EU would obviously benefit from a digital euro, but the banks won't give up without a fight: https://euperspectives.eu/2026/02/digital-euro-timeline-at-risk/ https://euperspectives.eu/2026/02/digital-euro-timeline-at-r... >Private banks are resistant to a digital euro both as a payment method and a store of value. The digital euro is designed to be a free, public payment method, directly challenging fee-based systems operated by banks. This is its key usefulness in terms of sovereignty. But it could also be used as a digital wallet and users may move their money out of private bank accounts to central bank-backed digital euro wallets meaning banks lose out. So far they have successfully delayed any implementation.
- petterroea 6mo agoVisa is trying hard to take over Japan at the moment and it's painful to watch. I'm really rooting for Pix, because the Visa MasterCard monopoly isn't doing us any favours
- Pooge 6mo agoCould you elaborate? Genuinely interested.
- petterroea 6mo agoVisa and MasterCard are basically redundant except for international transactions. We already mostly use QR code payments, which is a semi-open standard and somewhat vendor agnostic(with caveats). It works internationally. Japan has it's own card companies, and payment systems. Recently, some train lines have started adding support for Visa, but trust me that if you use it in rush hour you will be considered a knob head by everyone behind you as contactless is much slower than the native cards and can't keep up with a fast walking pace. Of course part of the problem here is Sony being greedy and making the international adoption of Felicia hard, but it's complicated. The cards are most useful for tourists, and the best argument to introduce cards is international compatability. But international interop doesn't have to look like this, it's just how the playing field ended up looking. Last, Visa and MasterCard are both known for being strict on what goods and services they are happy accepting, and it's not ok that so much power is consolidated in two entities in one country. I'm not an expert on payment systems, but when I see the large scale advertisements Visa especially are pulling off in Tokyo I see a foreign company trying to disrupt and gain market share while not really benefiting locals who do have mostly moved beyond the need for card payment. I.e my reaction isn't "yay, finally Visa is here too save me" it's "oh no, how will they disrupt and destroy"
- Pooge 6mo agoMakes sense. I lived there for a year and visit yearly and at the time I didn't notice such an aggressive campaign from Visa. IC cards indeed are much faster from my experience (in Hong-Kong and Singapore). I hope we can get rid of Visa and MasterCard because they are the reason we don't have free, instant payments.
- h4kunamata 6mo agoRead: The USA does not like what they cannot control!! I am glad to see the EU following Brazil with its own payment system. Visa/MasterCard/Paypal era is gone!!
- tistoon 6mo ago[flagged]
- raverbashing 6mo agoYup Americans will be "pro free market" until it's somebody else doing the competition, then they will be very butthurt about it (at best)
- h4kunamata 6mo ago[flagged]
- pndy 6mo agoConsidering the times we're living in, each country should consider implementing own payment system, and never abandoning cash for digital currency. Both systems should coexist and complement each other but we aren't living in a perfect world.
- bjohnson225 6mo agoAbsolutely. The US has shown it is happy to threaten allies and weaponise everything it can in international relations. It would be madness to leave critical payments infrastructure dependent on the US.
- forinti 6mo agoThe US has a long tradition of arm-twisting to forward its business interests. This habit is starting to do more harm than good (to them) and they should try to focus on innovating the way China does.
- shimman 6mo ago
- insumanth 6mo ago[flagged]
- pkphilip 6mo agoIndia's UPI is also extremely quick and easy to use - instant transfers with just the person's phone number or via a QR code or via a UPI id which looks like an email id. We are talking about 19-20 billion transactions per month. Apart from UPI, there are other interbank transfers methods such as NEFT, IMPS, RTGS etc. All quite convenient and easy to use.
- dd_xplore 6mo agoIn some setups UPI doesn't even internet! Just an SMS is sufficient
- jeroenhd 6mo agoI can see the usability aspect, but using an insecure protocol like SMS for something like payment sounds like an absolutely awful idea. RCS might work as it's a bit more secure (and more importantly: doesn't have a 2G/3G compatible version that criminals might trivially abuse); it even has an optional money sending API in its protocol.
- 0x1ceb00da 6mo agoPeople who are using upi over sms don't have a lot of money. Scamming them isn't worth the trouble.
- dd_xplore 5mo agoThe wallet doesn't allow you to keep more than ₹2000
- someonenice 6mo agoThere is UPI wallet (preload your wallet) that require no internet. But this still require a smartphone. The SMS option is mainly to avoid requiring a smartphone. There is a huge population that do not have a smartphone.
- thefossguy69 6mo agoOnline UPI is IMPS, with a good UX
- pjg 6mo agoIt is delightful to see PIX's exponential growth. It was preceded by India's UPI and borrowed heavily from it Here's a paper describing the experience: https://www.braziliankeynesianreview.org/BKR/article/view/336 https://www.braziliankeynesianreview.org/BKR/article/view/33...
- bpavuk 6mo agoa question for Ukrainians who maybe rode to Brazil and got to try Pix: is it this fast? is monobank faster or slower than Pix?
- ksec 6mo agoThere is also UPI in India, and I assume something coming soon from China. I sometimes do wonder if these Goverment can work together on a single payment system, federally operated but connected.
- reese_john 6mo agoIt is worth noting that despite all this cheap sovereignty talk from Brazil’s president, in practice Brazil would not be able to operate Pix at that scale without heavily relying on American hyperscalers companies. Brazilian institutions are paying hundreds of millions of dollars to US cloud providers, specially AWS, to be able to process that many transactions. Earlier this year, when sa-east-1 was down, major banks were forced to suspend Pix payments for nearly 3 hours. When this happens, some people are literally not able to buy anything because that’s their only payment method. So much for “President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva proclaiming a nationwide campaign: “Pix is ours, my friend”.” Don’t get me wrong, Pix has been a great success and a major achievement, but all this adversarial political talk between the US and Brazil administrations is really cringe, both countries are better doing business together. [1]https://economia.uol.com.br/noticias/redacao/2026/02/07/falha-na-amazon-web-service-causou-queda-do-pix-e-apps-de-bancos-hoje.htm https://economia.uol.com.br/noticias/redacao/2026/02/07/falh...
- DoctorDabadedoo 6mo agoOnly reinforces the point that relying on american infrastructure as a critical piece of your stack, in 2026, is a liability.
- reese_john 6mo agoThis is not a real problem outside of niche industries American companies are great to do business with. Most countries, including Brazil, simply don’t have the capability to pull this on their own. Not enough tech talent nor infrastructure
- ____mr____ 6mo ago> It is worth noting that despite all this cheap sovereignty talk from Brazil’s president, in practice Brazil would not be able to operate Pix at that scale without heavily relying on American hyperscalers companies. > American companies are great to do business with. US officials involving themselves in your national market because they are unhappy with the market share of their companies in it, with the implicit threat of stopping other areas of trade if you dont allow the companies to gain a larger market share makes US companies too untrustworthy to do business with. If Trump implements a trade ban for Brazil, will these hyperscalers continue providing the service at their own risk, or are they going to prioritize their state over their customers? I would assume the answer will be the latter. Given that, I believe it is in Brazil's (and most other states) best interest to divest and reduce partnerships with companies operating in the US
- m101 6mo agoThe main issue in this market is that the consumer doesn’t pay the cost of the transaction, therefore there is no pressure to reduce costs, and hence no innovation. All of this could be solved if a government regulated that consumers must pay the fee. Here, in the UK, we have obviously regulated the exact opposite of a sensible regulation and were “shocked” when total fees paid on transactions exploded.
- pelasaco 6mo agoThe only problem I actually face with Pix in Brazil is: Some stores only accept Pix and don’t want Visa or cash. As a tourist, you end up unable to access a lot of things because, well, we don’t have Pix. While I was in Brazil, some thugs with pistols came into a bar where I was. They forced people to send a Pix payment to a specific account, and their money was gone. In the credit card era, I guess the companies, insurance providers, and banks could reverse the transaction and cover the losses. With Pix, as I understand it, nobody feels responsible for it and the money is gone.
- eb0la 6mo agoReminder: always travel with a spare phone with a broken screen just in case.
- gota 6mo ago> While I was in Brazil, some thugs with pistols came into a bar where I was. They forced people to send a Pix payment to a specific account, and their money was gone. Sorry, don't mean to be rude, but your story doesn't track for many reasons. First, PIX keys are associated to formal bank accounts. If what you described happend, that account was blocked by the bank likely within the hour after the 'robbery'. And "stealing" accounts from other people in a way that allows you to withdraw cash from is exceedingly difficult and uncommon. Furthermore, it might have been possible in early days of pix, but it's been some time now (maybe from the start? Making your story impossible) that Pix has a 'undo' feature that the sender can do on their bank app or ATM even; similar to the 'block this credit transaction' from a credit card. > With Pix, as I understand it, nobody feels responsible for it and the money is gone. Incorrect, see above. Are you confusing PIX for some kind of crypto transfer?
- reese_john 5mo agoHave you ever worked in a financial institution? This is such a common occurrence that the BCB had to impose a default $200 nightly limit for Pix trns between 8pm and 6am. The way it works is, criminals use money mules, or stolen identities, to open legitimate bank accounts, then once the cash hits the account, they fan out the stolen proceeds to crypto rails or other money mules (“laranjas”) BCB has been trying to solve this with MED 2.0 but it is still a duct tape over the real problem: rampant crime and fraud in Brazil And let’s not dive into the digital bank heists that have been happening since the last year, when hackers have already managed to steal hundreds of millions of dollars from the financial system by exploiting Pix’s 24/7 network [0] Such attack to the financial system would have been akin to a war declaration in serious countries, but crime is so widespread and normalized that Brazilians lowered their standards to accept these absurd situations [0] Hackers steal R$400m in attack on Pix-connected fintech: https://valorinternational.globo.com/google/amp/markets/news/2025/07/02/hackers-steal-r400m-in-attack-on-pix-connected-fintech.ghtml
- nottorp 6mo agoDuopolists whining about competition eh?
- WinstonSmith84 6mo agoI can see that Visa and Mastercard are freaking out, not because Pix can take over their business model, but because it can give ideas to other countries doing the same. I've spent three months earlier this year in Brazil and never used Pix once. Not because I didn't want, but because I couldn't, or let's be honest: my time was not worth the hassle. To be able to pay with Pix, one needs to get a CPF (Brazilian Tax ID). Then to open a bank account, mostly local banks only accept Pix, with which you can tie your CPF. It's possible but it's definitely not straightforward the slightest. All the while Visa and Mastercard work everywhere in the country, I almost never had to pay in cash, even some sellers in the streets accepted regular credit cards. Pix is certainly great, but locally only, and if every country comes with its own system and Visa or Mastercard disappear, we are going to go back to how people used to travel 50 years ago: with a lot of USD bank notes hidden in your hotel room or elsewhere ... Pix is a good local idea, but the world needs something better.
- melting_snow 6mo ago> but because it can give ideas to other countries doing the same This is happening right now in Europe. You have systems like Blik, Twint, Swish etc. I know that at least Blik is working on making it possible for international payments.
- alexaholic 6mo ago> I know that at least Blik is working on making it possible for international payments International transfers between MB Way (PT) and Bizum (ES) are working e.g. via phone number. See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Payments_Alliance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Payments_Alliance
- ginko 6mo agoWhat's needed in Europe is federation of the existing systems, not one winner taking it all.
- nolok 6mo ago
- sschueller 6mo agoThe Swiss nation bank and other central banks should also do something similar. They are loosing control to private foreign corporations which decide what you can and can not purchase. Not based on laws but on risk. One of the jobs of the SNB is to enable payments. But because most people are using digital payments now they are loosing this ability and control. If you get sanctioned by the US you loose access to all digital payment systems. In Switzerland where access to a bank account is a right written in the law you can only use one bank (Postfinance) and this bank has to limit you to basically a useless account (No wires, no credit cards etc.) because even the internal digital payment system (Twint) touches some US system.
- ares623 6mo agoIf there is a company in New Zealand working on a similar system, I'd love to hear about it because I would like to work for you.
- glimshe 6mo agoPix is a great alternative for cash but a poor alternative for credit card. The safety is abysmal IMHO.
- fodkodrasz 6mo agoI guess this is largely equivalent to Qvik in Hungary. - Instantenous transfers (<5 sec hard requirement, usually sub-second) between local banks, - All local banks must implement support (not sure about the deadline, system is working reliably since a few years), - money can be sent or requested (needs approval, of course). - Primary IDs (bank account numbers) and optional secondary IDs (Phone number, email address) can be used - Supports QR codes for requests, - Free from any transfer costs for private people (not sure about companies) under 20M HUF (~50k EUR). It is implemented using an Erlang according to my information, and is a very robust, well designed and tested scalable system.
- uxhacker 6mo agoYou actually have many alternative money transfer systems around the world. Like Qvik you mention, UPI in India, Blik in Poland, and Swish in Sweden. Even cross border systems like Revolut pay. Surprisingly the first system started with MPESA in Kenya. Showing that innovation can happen Africa, and does not need to limited to Europe or the USA.
- u8080 6mo ago+SBP in Russia with similar qualities. Russia also implemented compatible Visa/MC backbone which allowed friction-less migration after both companies left country at 2022.
- aretology 6mo agoI have a credit card from BB, and I also use pix from time to time but not as much as a credit card. When Uncle Sam started bullying PIX I did what I never thought I would actually do. Since I can't stop using credit card (because it's helpful in my life) I canceled my Visa card with BB and requested ELO cc, created in 2011 by Bradesco, Banco do Brasil, and Caixa, not regretting anything. Blowing out someone else’s candle doesn’t make yours shine any brighter.
- pedroneto3 6mo agoI am Brazilian and I can tell PIX is the future of transactions. It's free (until now), fast and easy. All the world should adept it, plus with bitcoin at my opinion
- yakkomajuri 6mo agoTIL that there are fees for Pix under certain circumstances (e.g. as a business receiving payments). I mostly use Pix for person-to-person transactions, and those are free (and instantaneous). I don't even remember how we used to split bills back in the day anymore.
- silexia 6mo agoThe article is very hard to read with all of the ads on the site.
- 202508042147 6mo agoLooking forward to a European-wide payment system. Sure, there are apps probably in each individual country that you can use to pay (via a QR code) or easily transfer money (usually using a phone number). But there are cases like renting a car or paying abroad which are not covered. Seems a bit crazy considering this is a common market. Why don't these apps look to expand more aggresively in the EU? I know there's Wero, but why aren't they more bald in their approach? I also know there's the digital euro promoted by the European Commission, but I'm not holding my breath for that. It takes way too long and my feeling is that it is being used mostly to pressure the US. I don't think we'll be able to use it anytime soon.
- LeonidasXIV 6mo agoYes, I agree. It's a bit weird because finally, after decades SEPA ICT is here and could be used to back this thing. It just needs to be more user-friendly.
- mg794613 6mo agoVisa and Mastercard are just secret services of the USA by now. Couldn't be more glad that Trump is unknowingly bringing down that hegemony and freeing us from the arm twisting USA.
- Don_pelvis 6mo agoBrazilian here! For people from other countries, I can say with 100% certainty: There's not a single chance of Brazil's Pix going away — even if a far-right government wins and aligns with the USA. Even then, it's impossible. The ONLY way this could ever happen is if the USA invades Brazil.
- skeeter2020 6mo agoVisa and MC definitely use their consumer features (subsidized by merchants) to help maintain the duopoly, and a huge one is global acceptance. Does something like Pix require a strong, trustworthy central bank, and can it work outside of your home country? Or do even modern banking countries run into the LCD issue with international settlement?
- cbgonz 6mo agoI´m always baffled by the fact that PIX discussions (almost?) never address issues of privacy: the whole system is offered (and run) by the Brazilian central bank. Due to its popularity here, the central bank has enormous, detailed and live insight into a citizen´s financial life. Even the dullest and most unimaginative civil servant / tax office employee / security or police member must have wet dreams imagining all the possibilities...
- DanielHB 6mo agoYeah, but it is technically protected by "Sigilo bancário" law: https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigilo_banc%C3%A1rio https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigilo_banc%C3%A1rio Meaning you need a court order to get access to personal transfer statements and the government already forced private institutions from reporting certain types of transactions to the central government. It is not ideal, since this is not a constitutional right, just a law. But not that different from how it was before. However I believe the central bank can use anonamized data, which can be a good (analytics on where population spend money) or a bad (cracking down on certain types of business) thing. Also it has come to a point that data going to private companies (like VISA/Mastercard) always ends up sold to private (and usually foreign) data-brokers to make profiles on you, at least the gov doesn't do that*. The main argument is that PIX is killing cash transactions, that is the _real_ loss here. Like the political targeted ads backed by Russia during the whole Cambridge Analytica scandal, preventing foreign companies from analytics on your population is now a national security concern. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambridge_Analytica https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambridge_Analytica
- Scoring6931 6mo agoAs if Visa and Mastercard did not sell customer data...
- hmokiguess 6mo agoIt's baffling to me how the US thinks they are entitled to anything related to this. Calling Visa and Mastercard global credit companies is a stretch, they're clearly American monopolies.
- ever_same_4 5mo ago[flagged]
- pelasaco 5mo ago@dang thats @pizza_man socket puppet vibe coding handles and code..
- asdgsd1212 5mo ago[dead]
- ever_same_4 5mo ago[flagged]
- pelasaco 5mo agosad to see people reaching this level of emotional instability.. you should try some meditation or even learning some programming language. peace.
- ever_same_4 5mo ago[flagged]