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Spain's parliament will act against massive IP blockages by LaLiga
- pulimento 5mo agohope that doesn't end on "monitoring the situation" and doing nothing. entire cloudflare IP blocks are being blocked, even on work days
- e1g 5mo agoWe actually had to revert our rollout of CF Workers because enough of our users were in Spain and couldn’t access endpoints at seemingly arbitrary times (due to the matches)
- estebank 5mo agoYour customers should be proper Spaniards and be watching the match, hence not noticing the downtime! /s
- dylan604 5mo agoYour answer is better than mine
- dylan604 5mo agoThey are only seemingly arbitrary to people that are not actually paying attention. Now that people are, the blocks are known in advance to those that look at a the schedule. Sure, it sucks to have to build this into your own schedule, but that's better than it happening "unexpectedly". You could do something crazy like import these times into your own calendar with reminders.
- richwater 5mo agoAbsolutely ridiculous to make people do that. What you're proposing is not a real solution. The real solution is to not block wide IP ranges at the random desire of some private football league.
- dbbk 5mo agoI'm not sure what you're saying. Obviously the schedule of matches is public. But what are you suggesting the business does during this time...? Their site is offline.
- dylan604 5mo agoService Unavailable For Scheduled Maintenance However, my post was a tounge-in-cheek response.
- bombcar 5mo agoAn IT peon at La Liga has the chance to do the funniest thing …
- pier25 5mo agoFinally. The situation is ridiculous and afaik it really didn't do anything to solve the piracy problem.
- superjose 5mo ago1000% I got legit Cloudflare Workers Anycast IPs that I was using for websockets blocked. I also got blocked from using RustDesk. It's been crazy. As this happens intermittently. I had to set up a tailscale exit node in one of my servers to circumvent this crap. I lost several days and called Vodafone (ISP) to understand what was going on. That's when I read Reddit and saw that crap.
- lostlogin 5mo agoI’m suprised no one has sued over it, some sort of class action.
- pretzel5297 5mo agoWho would you sue? The courts?
- tyrannomachy 5mo agoIn the US, I think it would be covered by this: https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frcp/rule_24 https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frcp/rule_24 So presumably the analogue to that in Spain.
- GranPC 5mo agoI don't think RustDesk was hit by this. If you weren't able to access it two weeks ago, it was due to an outage on their end: https://github.com/rustdesk/uptime/issues/53 https://github.com/rustdesk/uptime/issues/53
- superjose 5mo agoThanks for the heads up! I'm using it self-hosted on a Hetzner VPS. Apparently they also block certain ports. As soon as I route the traffic through Tailscale through the same VPS I can connect without issues (My phone was affected as well)
- sparrish 5mo agoPlay stupid games... win stupid prizes. The judicial, nation-wide blocks on CDN IPs is absurd and should have never been allowed.
- pfortuny 5mo agoThat shows the power of the Spanish FA and Telefonica together.
- officialchicken 5mo agoGreat, this means Telefonica reliability goes from zero nines to still below zero nines.
- loloquwowndueo 5mo agoJoining a select club that includes GitHub and Anthropic yay
- ACCount37 5mo agoNah, those two have a proud one nine of reliability. It just feels like it must be less when you eat every single outage to your face.
- kevin_thibedeau 5mo agoThe lofty .88889
- LocalH 5mo agoNegative nines
- matteason 5mo agoContext: last year LaLiga (top-level Spanish football league) obtained a court order compelling Spanish ISPs to block certain IPs during football matches, as those IPs have been associated with illegal streams of live matches. Many of those IPs are shared Cloudflare IPs, with the result being many legitimate sites become unavailable in Spain during LaLiga matches https://cybernews.com/news/spain-laliga-streaming-piracy-campaign/ https://cybernews.com/news/spain-laliga-streaming-piracy-cam...
- inglor_cz 5mo agoI fervently hope that no one manages to obtain a similar judgment at the pan-EU level, that would be a disaster.
- dmitrygr 5mo agoI actually hope they do. this will force a proper reckoning about the situation and maybe a proper fix.
- estebank 5mo agoOn the one hand, I would tend to agree that making things painful enough might force people to stop ignoring and improve things. On the other, after seeing waves hands at everything since 2016 makes me very skeptical of accelerationism: sometimes things just get worse and worse, there's no bottom to bounce from. Or maybe we just never really hit rock bottom?
- dmitrygr 5mo agoEventually, some apparatchik will try to access pornhub during a sports match and fail, it'll resolve the issue quickly
- ben_w 5mo agoGiven much of the internet today, I'm not sure if a pan-EU level blocklist on all of cloudflare (damaging as that would be) would even be worse than the status-quo, let alone rock bottom.
- oliverx0 5mo agoFinally. For anyone affected by this, I have been using Clouflare WARP successfully to bypass this block.
- kinow 5mo agoI hadn't heard about Cloudflare WARP. Found this Reddit thread with questions/comments I also had, https://www.reddit.com/r/CloudFlare/comments/ldejnt/how_is_cloudflare_warp_different_from_a_vpn_what/ https://www.reddit.com/r/CloudFlare/comments/ldejnt/how_is_c..., and also what I think is CF's main website for WARP info, https://one.one.one.one/ https://one.one.one.one/ (which I must confess I had never head even though I use 1.1.1.1). I struggle with LaLiga's filter during matches, but I am more interested if it'll help with latency/speed. Have you noticed any different when using WARP vs. without it regarding Internet speed? Thanks!
- oliverx0 5mo agoNope, I would say speed remains the same!
- noIdeaTheSecond 5mo agoI understand organizations as LaLiga wanting more money but massive IP blockage seems quite unfair, effective maybe but unfair so this news does not come as a surprise.
- dwedge 5mo agoIt's been going on for a while, but a couple of weeks ago they announced it would be expanded to other sports, that's probably why
- nemomarx 5mo agoWho says it's effective? The pirate streams still go up every game, as far as people report here. They can just change their ips or hosts occasionally. It's the honest businesses who probably won't go through the effort of evading the block every time.
- otherme123 5mo agoAlso, clients of the streaming sites are quick to find and spread workarounds, mainly VPNs. But the small shop in the same IP selling to middle/older aged lose business and look unreliable to their clients, that can't even spell VPN.
- dwedge 5mo agoI'm torn on this. It always should have gone through the courts, but the fact is that cloudflare are providing access to illegal content and not doing anything about it. They were left with two choices if Cloudflare refuse to act. Either accept it (oh well, too big to fail), or block them. I dislike what is happening but I kind of like that they don't care about the size of Cloudflare and hold them as accountable as they would a small hosting company in Belarus. Blocking entire ranges due to illegal content isn't exactly new, the scale is new. Again though, I really dislike that it isn't going through the legal system
- dghlsakjg 5mo agoIt did go through the legal system. That’s what forces the block.
- rtkwe 5mo agoIt's unreasonable to expect cloudflare etc to be able to proactively identify legal vs illegal streams. The companies who own the copyrights can't even get that right much less a third party that has no idea if a stream is licensed.
- charcircuit 5mo agoCloudflare can assign IPs based off customer reputation. High risk customers get high risk IPs. This way legitimate businesses stay on IPs that don't get blacklisted and sketchier businesses go on high risk IPs before they potentially get banned.
- dbbk 5mo agoThey already do this. Free tier IPs are separate from Pro tier, Enterprise tier, etc.
- charcircuit 5mo agoThey must not be doing a good enough job if legitimate sites are being taken out by these blocks too.
- dylan604 5mo agoI'm interested in how those conversations went between the LaLiga and Cloudflare that convinced them to do this. I know I'm not Cloudflare, but if a company (any company) came to me demanding blocking IP ranges according the their schedule that would require a bunch of work on my end to make it happen, there's going to be a lot of push back. It'd take a dump truck load of money to make that happen.
- xp84 5mo agoI thought the government just forced their ISPs to block. Was CF involved at all?
- dghlsakjg 5mo agoIt wasn’t a conversation. It was a court order.
- pjc50 5mo agoCloudflare are apparently not involved. It's an order against local ISPs to block Cloudflare.
- kelnos 5mo agoThat's not how this worked. Cloudflare was not involved at all. Spanish ISPs were ordered by Spanish courts to block their customers from accessing specific IP addresses.
- clort 5mo agoNo conversation at all needed to happen. LaLiga got a court order. The order specifically stated that if LaLiga flag your IP address, the internet providers in Spain must block it during the match. Cloudflare have nothing to do with it. Who could have forseen, that LaLiga would end up abusing this system!?
- matteason 5mo agoCloudflare are very much pushing back: https://www.laliga.com/en-GB/news/official-statement-in-relation-to-the-blocking-of-ips-during-the-recent-ea-sports-laliga-matchdays-linked-to-illegal-cloudflare-practices https://www.laliga.com/en-GB/news/official-statement-in-rela...
- alprado50 5mo agoIt is insane that you could block access to hundreds of sites just because some people decided to watch an ilegal stream.
- booi 5mo agotry 45 million sites including many absolutely critical to people's lives and health. https://trends.builtwith.com/cdn/Cloudflare https://trends.builtwith.com/cdn/Cloudflare
- wraptile 5mo agoAnd people wonder why Spain is doing so poorly when tribal corporate entertainment takes such a priority over everything else.
- tonyedgecombe 5mo agoI wonder why you think "Spain is doing so poorly".
- DocTomoe 5mo agoWhat you need is some form of - European - megacorp getting hurt by this and going after LaLiga for a ridiculously huge, LaLiga-destroying amount of money.
- jerf 5mo agoOne of the things that so often gets lost in politics is the concept of a stopping principle. If you know you want to do X, be it "enforce traffic tickets", "spend money chasing drug trafficking", or anything else, you really ought to be able to articulate some sort of stopping principle where you stop pouring the resources in. Maybe the problem is adequately solved. Maybe the further resources don't justify the tiny incremental change. Maybe the intrusion on liberty starts to overwhelm the benefits. Something. Otherwise you just end up going farther and farther down the road with no idea when to stop. These IP blocks don't seem to come with a stopping principle. They were large and growing, and inevitably more and more entities were going to say "Hey, if that company is large enough to flip the switch to protect their assets then I'm large enough for that too!" and the obvious and inevitable stopping point was 100% blockage. Taken to its logical conclusion, and I do mean "logical" and not "rhetorically overblown for effect", this comes perilously close to just declaring that the value of the Internet is so net negative due to piracy that it should just be shut down in Spain. If that's true during certain sports matches it's already not far from being true for lots of other things too. This was leading in an obviously-economically-untenable direction.
- hnlmorg 5mo ago> Taken to its logical conclusion, and I do mean "logical" and not "rhetorically overblown for effect", this comes perilously close to just declaring that the value of the Internet is so net negative due to piracy that it should just be shut down in Spain. What you’ve described there is completely overblown for rhetoric. The internet is still needed for delivering legal streams of matches. So there’s never going to be any pressure to turn off the entire internet. Plus the likes of Amazon, and other online businesses would sue the hell out of La Liga for loss of trade. So there’s no way in hell the situation would descend into your “logical conclusion”. That’s not to say that the situation couldn’t get worse that it already is. Just that your logical conclusion isn’t very logical.
- pdpi 5mo ago> The internet is still needed for delivering legal streams of matches. So there’s never going to be any pressure to turn off the entire internet. Cloudflare serves a whole bunch of legal and genuinely important services, and yet there was enough pressure to block them off.
- deleted 5mo ago[deleted]
- pixel_popping 5mo agoLove the hypocrisy (my IP is blocked): 403 ERROR The request could not be satisfied. Generated by cloudfront (CloudFront)
- Apocryphon 5mo agoSo politically speaking how influential is LaLiga compared to other nation's football leagues, or America's largest sports leagues?
- dbbk 5mo agoGenuinely never thought I'd see the day. This has been horrible for me running an event ticketing business in Spain... where downtime is basically not acceptable.
- embedding-shape 5mo agoWhy would you be using Cloudflare when there are better options, especially if you've known for years that this has been going on? Seems like a poor business decision really. Don't get me wrong, I hate getting blocked just because there is a La Liga game, but lets also take some responsibility for our own decisions here...
- dbbk 5mo agoRight I mean I had to move off Cloudflare. I looked into some creative options like DNS steering to keep it for all other countries, but in the end it was cleaner to just move away entirely which was a shame.
- utrack 5mo agoIs there a good alternative option for their reverse tunnels/ways to hide my real egress that'll also block the bots?
- here2learnstuff 5mo agoAre you saying your event-ticketing business having downtime is not acceptable or that having downtime for the Spanish demographic is not acceptable?
- Certary 5mo agoAnd yet democrata.ch, who released the article, blocks me from accessing their free website because of my VPN :)
- jimmydddd 5mo agoSorry. Why can't an indivudual bad actor site be targeted without affecting non bad actor sites? Why does the blocking have to be so broad?
- wmf 5mo agoBecause both sites are on the same IP address.
- tonyedgecombe 5mo agoPresumably that's a choice Cloudflare can make.
- eggprices 5mo agoThe court can order Cloudflare to block a website, but that isn't what the court did.
- embedding-shape 5mo agoCloudflare don't want to lose the piracy stream sites as customers, so they can't throw them off their platform. They want to specifically block the stream sites and specifically only for Spanish visitors, so the only thing they can do is reject Spanish traffic for specific IP-ranges in their infrastructure. Result is a bunch of collateral damage.
- aduwah 5mo agoI wonder why didn't Cloudflare just say that technically they can't block the IPs for a short time as they have no mechanism to do it and it would take a significant amount of $$ to develop it. Right after this statement they could have permanently block all the IPs and let the outraged customers make enough noise that would have prompt the government to act sooner.
- deleted 5mo ago[deleted]
- pas 5mo agoit's not blocked by Cloudflare, but by ISPs (as far as I understand)
- azalemeth 5mo agoVery ironically I get this error trying to read the article: 403 ERROR The request could not be satisfied. Request blocked. We can't connect to the server for this app or website at this time. There might be too much traffic or a configuration error. Try again later, or contact the app or website owner. If you provide content to customers through CloudFront, you can find steps to troubleshoot and help prevent this error by reviewing the CloudFront documentation. Generated by cloudfront (CloudFront) Qui blockat blockodiodes? Cloudfare, it turns out....
- anthk 5mo agoYeah, like in the massively ilegal user spying case with LaLiga app, where the fine can be huge in Spain (kinda like messing like the FCC in the US if not worse).
- miohtama 5mo ago> The PP and Vox voted against it. Junts abstained from the session. This is the bad guys.
- vfclists 5mo agoIf IP addresses are a shared resource then it shouldn't be possible to block an IP or IP range because some of the domains are hosting illegal stuff. This is like blocking access to a street, a block of flats or even an estate because drug dealers and hookers operate from them.
- lz400 5mo agoAbout time, this was crazy and should result in some action against cloudflare for allowing it
- Havoc 5mo agoYou can’t punish companies for court order against them. Thats insane
- leosanchez 5mo agoIt’s not football; it’s LaLiga.
- b00ty4breakfast 5mo agoThat a sports league was empowered by the courts to do this in first place is buck wild to me. I live in America, so it's not like I'm unaccustomed to the government giving preferential treatment to corporations but I cannot fathom a court allowing the NFL to tell ISPs to block IPs across the entire country.
- pie_flavor 5mo agoAmerica produces many things more valuable than the NFL, is the difference. LaLiga is presently the single most valuable brand in Spain. When e.g. Google asks low-polarization parts of the government for things, it frequently gets them.
- globular-toast 5mo agoWait, so a private company in the business of men kicking balls around a field was able to make this happen without government support?! How?
- eggprices 5mo agoTheir supreme court allowed it. Their congress is now overturning it.