16 ms·

This change has served me well! I have been a Mac OS X users for years who used an android phone. As soon as google announced their impending walled garden stat

by pngwen 5mo ago

This change has served me well! I have been a Mac OS X users for years who used an android phone. As soon as google announced their impending walled garden status, I went out and bought into the ios eco system. I have really been enjoying my iphone, ipad, and apple watch. You see, the only value that Android really offered me was the ability to run my own code on my own device. Since they are taking that away that just makes it a crappier shadow of the vastly superior apple experience. And, as it turns out, ios is less restrictive than it was 18 years ago when I left them for Android!

tossit444 5mo ago
So you moved into a walled garden in an attempt to escape what's essentially a 3 foot picket fenced garden.
- randyrand 5mo ago
  If you cant beat them join them
  - rootusrootus 5mo ago
    If you are stuck in a walled garden either way, might at least try to get the benefits of it.
    - catlikesshrimp 5mo ago
      Includes status symbol and ecosystem lock!
      - pocksuppet 5mo ago
        So does Android, but without the status symbol, the high res screen, or the integration with your laptop.
        estebank 5mo ago
        I haven't found the need for deeper integration with my laptop beyond what KDE connect is capable of, and my Pixel has a high enough resolution that I can't notice pixels :)
      - rootusrootus 5mo ago
        If it is a status symbol, it really ain't working for me. I must be doing something wrong.
        wolvoleo 5mo ago
        It depends where. In Spain people use it for that because iPhones are incredibly expensive here compared to the standard of living. What doesn't help is that the SE/e models are also way more expensive than in the US. As a result it's mainly rich people and tourists that own them. Most people use budget android phones, the kind that still come with 3,5mm jacks. You still see wired earphones a lot.
    - orthecreedence 5mo ago
      The iOS app store is like the craigslist personals of online markets. I feel incredibly dirty just going on there. I have to scroll down 3-5 options just to find the exact match for what I searched for, many of the prioritized options being look-alikes that could easily fool people into installing some malware-esque garbage. I love my 13 mini as a phone, but I don't understand how anyone could compare the two app stores and think iOS comes out on top. At least android has f-droid.
      - rootusrootus 5mo ago
        I almost never go to the app store to find an app, but I can understand how that would be really frustrating. Sounds like they need to get serious about curating the app store content. From my perspective, the walled garden value I get is predominantly in the integrations between my phone, macbook, and watch. And to a lesser extent (because it's a bit buggy at times) the family integrations.
        orthecreedence 5mo ago
        Integrations makes sense, but I'm 100% sold on linux/PCs at this point and I don't care about wearables so my phone is just a phone. Luckily I'm not on the app store much, but if the walled garden is a cesspool already then maybe opening the gates a bit isn't such a bad idea.
  - pestat0m 5mo ago
    It's probably worth mentioning that as far as i know this change does not affect AOSP phones[1]. I'm currently living with a Kyocera flip-phone[3] for the past few years. I even got F-droid installed, though it turned out to not work all that great on a flip. I wish more people wrote apps for flips. I keep intending to look into writing my own APK if i ever get the chance. As i understand it, it's a bit like The Wild West, though there are places where you can get flip-phone apps[2] like maps, media players, messengers, etc.. i just never seem to have time to look more into this(and i'm a little concerned about getting scammed). I did manage recently to successfully tether my old touch-phone to my flip for a car trip i took, so i could get data to the touch and run maps(i feel somewhat clever to have sidestepped Big Tech on that issue). Hopefully i'll get some time one day to look more into flip-apps. [1] https://source.android.com/ https://source.android.com/ [2] https://www.apkmirror.com/ https://www.apkmirror.com/ [3] https://www.kyoceramobile.com/rugged-devices/duraxv-extreme-plus#1361858218 https://www.kyoceramobile.com/rugged-devices/duraxv-extreme-...
- HWR_14 5mo ago
  If there are two walled gardens, you might as well choose the prettier one.
  - gslepak 5mo ago
    Or choose freedom. I've been enjoying GrapheneOS for a couple of years now and recommend it.
    - muwtyhg 5mo ago
      Do you run into issues with apps not supporting it? Things like banking or auth? That is the main complaint I see for alternative phone OSes, and I don't know if that has gotten any better.
      - pocksuppet 5mo ago
        My bank detected someone logging in with my password from a GrapheneOS phone and made me change my password and scan my face. That was dumb. With that out of the way, and the device now seemingly authorized, it still doesn't work, because when I log in, the app restarts. That could be a real compatibility problem.
        ffsm8 5mo ago
        Yeah, I tried that out last year when this whole debacle was announced for the first time. I'm not going back to paying without my phone. So yeah, I'm not going to a free platform either. the choice really is mostly down to Google's Android or iOS - unless you're ready to make sacrifices. If you are... More power to you! I'm not (at this point in my life) right now.
      - AnthonyMouse 5mo ago
        There are essentially two separate issues here. The first is the anti-trust angle. Some subset of bank apps don't work because of attestation and that's a significant barrier to adoption for switching to competitors, so it ought to be an anti-trust violation for the platform to do that. The second is, you try it and discover that your bank doesn't work. If you want it bad enough you can switch banks, and the fact that it doesn't work is a signal that your bank has a weak security team who is just cargo culting deleterious vendor nonsense without evaluating whether it has any real security value. (The use case for attestation is completely orthogonal to bank apps because it can't prevent credential stealing from compromised phones running a fake app since the fake app won't require attestation, and it can't prevent attackers from using stolen credentials to transfer funds because once they have the credentials they can just use a normal phone, and that's the case even if the attestation was completely airtight, which it isn't. Meanwhile the devices that can pass attestation are generally more vulnerable because it implies they're running the more-likely-to-be-outdated OS that came with the device rather than a third party upgrade with more recent patches, so they're essentially encouraging their customers to not upgrade their OS. Banks that do this are wearing clown makeup and you have to ask if you trust them with your money.)
- lynndotpy 5mo ago
  For an Android user, iOS offers better privacy (which can change at any time), but it also comes baked in with better support for some open protocols. (SMB on Files, and CalDAV/CardDAV for Calendars/Contacts/Notes integration). This has been the case for years, while aspects of the 'walled garden' have eroded over time. It's natural that this huge Android regression might be enough for someone to dip their toes into the other side.
  - politelemon 5mo ago
    > iOS offers better privacy No, it markets lockin dressed up as privacy. Convincing you that they are the same thing is the real magic here.
    - lynndotpy 5mo ago
      No, it might sound smart, but it's incorrect to equivocate. You don't need to "lock in" to Apple's services either. Apple has a meaningfully better track record than Google on privacy in many regards. (Apple's Terms of Service is also much better, for not having an arbitration clause anywhere except the Apple credit card, with a very easy opt-out flow.)
BatteryMountain 5mo ago
I'm on this path too. Waiting a few more months to see what happens. If they indeed block my 4 apps on my phone (which aren't published anywhere), I will simply move to Apple.
- catlikesshrimp 5mo ago
  Will your 4 unpublished apps be in your android-alternative apple device? Android will still have the ability to install non-google-distributed programs. The problem is the ominous momentum, but it is still more open than the apple alternative
  - i_am_jl 5mo ago
    I'm not the commenter you replied to, but I'm doing the same math they are and coming up with the same answer. From my perspective iOS is better than Android in a number of ways but Android always won out overall for me, in large part because of the freedom regarding software. Remove that freedom from the equation, I think the balance tips towards iOS.
    - seszett 5mo ago
      I always wonder what these unspecified ways that iOS is better than Android actually are. These posts always have a few comments like that, but they never actually say what they find to be better on iOS.
      - lynndotpy 5mo ago
        I'll bite. For me, Google services are not an option, so my Android experience is sans-Google. Until September 2025, I'd say iOS had actually gotten better than Android. CalDAV, CardDAV, and SMB are baked into iOS, whereas these are onerous to set up on Android. These are very very nice protocols, and I use them all daily. (Contacts, Calendars, Notes, Reminders, and Files.) Apple's developer ecosystem lacks the FOSS devs that make F-Droid so good, but they do have a number of devs who release paid apps with zero tracking, which is very nice. It's often the case an app exists on iOS as a $5 one-time fee with a two-paragraph privacy policy for which one does not exist on Fdroid. Shortcuts work well enough, homescreen customization is good enough, etc. that a number of the original Android draws are gone. There are a number of points where iOS and Android are equals now. iCloud's E2EE photo backup is something I reluctantly started using and found to be very nice, after having had de-Googled in 2018. I miss having my photos auto-upload and be available on other devices, and Apple has had iCloud Web for awhile. This is nicer than the options I have on Android. And while Android's notification-panel tiles have gotten worse over the years (down from six to two controls on the first swipe, this was what alienated me and got me to try iOS), iOS now has a much denser "control center". The big caveat is the gigantic regression that is iOS 26. The phone is slower, it kills battery, the native apps are constantly crashing, the lockscreen and homescreen often have broken navigation flows, etc. It's a travesty that never should have been released and iOS is easily worse than Android right now. If someone needed a phone today, I couldn't recommend an iPhone, but that might change with iOS 27.
fainpul 5mo ago
Even after Google puts this crap in place, you can still uplodad your own apps to your own Android devices, using ADB. Doing the same for iOS, using Xcode, costs you USD 100 or more (depending on country) per year. I'm in no way defending Google here, just pointing out you're going from bad to worse and think it's a good thing.
- brandonhorst 5mo ago
  This is not true, running your code on your phone with Xcode has always been free.
  - quantumleaper 5mo ago
    With a free account, it needs to be reinstalled every 7 days because the signature expires. It's hardly convenient for personal use.
    - dylan604 5mo ago
      [flagged]
      - therein 5mo ago
        It happens. Sometimes you're done making updates to a personal app you use that you wrote.
      - AnthonyMouse 5mo ago
        Every 7 days, forever? At some point you have the thing working to your satisfaction and just want to continue using it.
        deleted 5mo ago
        [deleted]
        Terr_ 5mo ago
        Hell, maybe you just want it to not break during a long vacation. Or maybe everything is normal, but, oops, you forgot the last renewal and it stops working exactly the moment you needed it most.
empyrrhicist 5mo ago
> the vastly superior apple experience After switching away from GrapheneOS to iOS after RCS stopped working for me, I can safely say my experience has been the opposite. The camera is the only thing better for me on iOS - everything else is buggier and worse. A few of my favorites: 1. Safari is buggy as hell, and requires installing apps to run things like ad blockers. 2. The settings are ALL over the place and very hard to navigate 3. The gestures are clunky - often have to try a couple times to get one of the settings quick menus to drop down 4. Why is the date not displayed at the top of the screen with the time outside of the lock screen? 5. The pin unlock is horribly broken - I have to slow way down to use it compared to Android. 6. Apple maps is hot garbage. I had to install Google Maps anyway to get decent performance. 7. The handling of audio devices seems intentionally malicious - like if I call someone from my car through car play, it shouldn't send the audio out through the phone earpiece. If a call begins with phone earpiece audio and is underway, it shouldn't switch several seconds in to bluetooth headset half a house. I'm going back for my next phone.
- dtj1123 5mo ago
  I'm considering switching to GrapheneOS... What's this about RCS not working?
  - Cider9986 5mo ago
    If you don't want to invest in getting your contacts on Signal, you can try OpenBubbles. It gets iMessage on Android devices and works fine. I highly recommend switching to GOS, it is wayyy better than iOS UX-wise and obviously better privsec and freedom. One thing that I had to do when I first got GOS, to get a better experience, was find all the Open Source apps that I needed. Otherwise, it looks rather bland and the apps are mid. Once you find the right apps and launcher, everything works much better.
  - scblock 5mo ago
    RCS can be hit or miss on GrapheneOS, but they have made significant progress recently. It requires using Google Messages rather than any other messaging app, and may require enabling an ICC authentication option that is disabled by default. And it may depend on your carrier. RCS is kind of a pain in the butt but the messaging improvements over SMS are substantial which is why I wanted it. When I first tried last fall I had it working for a few weeks then it stopped entirely delivering messages and I fell back to SMS only. After the recent system updates and enabling the ICC option it has been working well for me. The official page explains briefly, https://grapheneos.org/usage#rcs https://grapheneos.org/usage#rcs There is a very long discussion threat going back several years that is now considered resolved, which seems to be the case for me. https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/1353-using-rcs-with-google-messages-on-grapheneos https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/1353-using-rcs-with-google-...
Cider9986 5mo ago
GrapheneOS is the answer. Apple's software is really buggy compared to Android and Linux.
- theK 5mo ago
  Or /e/
  - Cider9986 5mo ago
    GrapheneOS is significantly more secure, more private, and more free. Not sure why you would use /e/.
    - rstat1 5mo ago
      and limited to one type of device that not everyone can get or wants.
      - subscribed 5mo ago
        Only because this is the one family of the devices secure enough to even bother with software security. It's not their fault (plus since 2027 we expect the first Motorola handset secure enough tu be supported by GOS) And at least they don't cheat on patches :)
    - theK 5mo ago
      Well, for one you can actually buy an /e/ device right now. Also, once you have it, it just works. Some people like that.
      - easterncalculus 5mo ago
        If there's one thing I've learned about the custom Android community (and to a lesser extent, the Android community) it's that "it actually works" isn't really important or convincing to them.
      - 5mo ago
Dwedit 5mo ago
Now you just have to deal with Apple's hostile repairability situation. Cryptographically-mated parts are just the beginning.
thefz 5mo ago
Ah yes macOS, the notoriously open platform.
627467 5mo ago
> stop being yours As if most android maker phones don't already fully own your device - preventing you from unlocking of bootloader and installing an OS that actually doesnt enforce the restriction google is introducing in their flavour of android. To pretend that with this change android becomes exactly like iOS is... ridiculous? I can pick any 10yo old android phone from my drawer and develop for it, no problem and without asking for permissions. And if I'm already this motivated I'm certainly motivated enough to wait 24hs on future (more locked down) devices. Do you think people who download NewPipe and alike - to circumvent ads and enable premium features - would think twice because they need to wait 24hs? Will NewPipe devs stop developing (anonymously) because of a small fraction of users who refuse to (or won't) go through unlocking steps? Show me all these "rebel" apps on iOS ecosystem that can be easily distributed on any channel: fdroid, github, telegram groups, etc. But sure, if you thinking moving to iOS is the same, sounds like you never really made use of any of the freedoms android used to and will continue to provide
- bigyabai 5mo ago
  In the words of a Great American: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
  - fuzztester 5mo ago
    Lincoln?
    - tejtm 5mo ago
      Benny.
  - rimliu 5mo ago
    AFAIK there is more to that quote and it is usually misrepresented.
    - bigyabai 5mo ago
svat 5mo ago
Here is a table I just made (edit: changed to list as HN wraps code blocks now), of iOS vs Android (now) vs Android (after Sep 2026 or 2027 or whenever these announced changes take effect): •1. Where most users can install software from: ↠↠ iOS: official store (App Store) + (in EU) other stores ↠↠ Android (now): official store (Play Store), other stores (e.g. F-Droid), arbitrary APKs ↠↠ Android (after changes): official store (Play Store), other stores (e.g. F-Droid), arbitrary APKs •2. Who the developers of software can be: ↠↠ iOS: registered developers ($99/year) ↠↠ Android (now): any developer ↠↠ Android (after changes): registered developers ($25 one-time) + hobbyists (small distribution) + any developers (for advanced users) •3. Installing your own apps on your own phone, without becoming a registered developer: ↠↠ iOS: using XCode: need to reinstall every 7 days. ↠↠ Android (now): using ADB ↠↠ Android (after changes): using ADB The second row (•2) is what is changing in Android. I think "the ability to run my own code on my own device", narrowly speaking, is closest to the third row, which is not changing.
- gvurrdon 5mo ago
  Android does indeed still look better. But, I would not consider having to send a copy of my government ID to Google, or having them be able to block apps when so ordered by government, to be acceptable.
  - socalgal2 5mo ago
    I agree it’s not acceptable. so then iOS is just as not acceptable as it has all the same issues and worse. this thread started as switching to iOS
    - greycol 5mo ago
      Yeah but the situation used to be you don't need to jump through flaming hoops on android and you do need to jump through flaming hoops on ios for installing. Now it's you have to jump through X flaming hoops on android and X+Y on ios for installing. If I'm not going to jump through flaming hoops then I'm not installing so it doesn't matter what Y is in the equation and I'm not taking into account installing when comparing those devices, which mean ios might be a better proposition. Alternatively if the difficulty of moving from 0->X is not negligible but moving from X->X+Y is then I may still be installing but I'm not considering the Y in the comparison then either. i.e. If I have to show my id to google once and apple twice it's the initial showing that is the turn off, or if it's the action of getting my credit card out in the 1st place rather than the cost difference that concerns me.
nickburns 5mo ago
So basically—both Apple and Alphabet love the way you think.
a456463 5mo ago
This is literally the dumbest take I have seen! iOS charges you and limits your custom app until a few days and you have to "renew" Even before this change, I have my custom apps running forever.
munk-a 5mo ago
Apple still doesn't allow you to control individual app volume to silence/dim certain applications in multi-play mode though, right? As someone who hates disturbances this is the killer feature that has kept me with samsung - well that and fdroid which is currently endangered.
NamlchakKhandro 5mo ago
You have bought a walled garden lock, it can be picked with a walled garden lock.
frostyel 5mo ago
[dead]
GroksBarnacles 5mo ago
Dumb question, can you explain the benefits of IOS? I've only tried using an iPhone ~10 years ago before I got into tech
- kulahan 5mo ago
  It's unbelievably useful within its own walled garden. There are lots of instances where commands, tabs, and other pieces of data transfer seamlessly between your phone and computer. You can bring your phone up as a digital version ON your laptop so you can call, text, etc. straight from it while your phone sits in the bedroom charging or whatever. Everything works really, really well. Their walled garden has always been pretty top-tier.
  - eks391 5mo ago
    So would you say that the value of Apple products increases as you have more of them (higher than just the linear benefit of more products)? I've used them, but always as one offs. For example, Ive had a Mac(book? The one that you connect periphery to use) as a work computer at a previous software job, the iPhone because of a girl I dated who wouldn't be with a green bubble man, and iPad also in a previous job, so never together or actually adopted in personal life, so I didn't get sold.
    - kulahan 5mo ago
      Yes, significantly. That’s a great way to put it. My dad is all-in, and I’m pretty surprised at how nice things can be. Still, it’s like a credit card with a fee. It’s great so long as you can pay, but oftentimes it’s a nightmare to get out of if times are tough.
matheusmoreira 5mo ago
I will do the same if they lock down Android. If I must be in a walled garden, then I'm going to choose the better kept garden, and it sure as hell isn't Google's. There is absolutely zero reason to tolerate the shittiness of Android if they take away the relative freedom it gives us. GrapheneOS is the last hope of the Android ecosystem, and if Google keeps locking things down that's not going to last either.
dcow 5mo ago
I did this too, but it happened almost 10 years ago when Google started locking down Android in the name of battery life. I saw the writing on the walls and said if Android is going to be just like iOS because we collectively can’t have nice things, then at least I’ll live out that sad reality on better hardware.
darepublic 5mo ago
iOS still more locked down than Google. When I started reading this I thought you were going true open source
digitist 5mo ago
[dead]
socalgal2 5mo ago
No, Android still offers way more features than iOS. Replace the lock screen with a custom app Replace the home screen with a custom app Set default apps for SMS, phone service, assistant, camera, photo gallery. all things you can not change on iOS Always on widgets and dynamic wallpapers It has a much more customizable inter app communication system so that you can get more apps to be the default viewers At allows true background tasks like say a BitTorrent client It supports shared storage like SMB and a user accessible file system Custom NFC apps USB host mode Multiple users/profiles And about 70 other things
- rimliu 5mo ago
  As a wise man once said - Android when you want to do thing TO your phone, iOS when you want do to thing with your phone.
ugh123 5mo ago
They are absolutely not taking away your ability to run your own code
- catcowcostume 5mo ago
  But he needed an excuse to buy an iphone
wolvoleo 5mo ago
You're in an even worse ecosystem now, an apple phone never even has been yours.
globular-toast 5mo ago
Leaving one abusive partner for another is hardly a win. It's pathetic.
raincole 5mo ago
You just proved that the ability of installing whatever apps you want isn't that vital, don't you?
dariosalvi78 5mo ago
I used to own a house, I could decorate it the way I wanted. It was hard work, but it was mine! Then they locked it, so I went to live in a luxury hotel, it's more expensive, I can't decide how I want it and I don't own anything, but it's such a superior experience!
- rimliu 5mo ago
  Some want ownership, some want experience. People differ, who might have thought.
  - dariosalvi78 5mo ago
    it's not the choice, it's the argument: OP seems to be happy to give up freedom (he or she initially cherished) because everything now is crap anyways, so let's just bathe in shit and celebrate it...
fsflover 5mo ago
I'm so tired of this false dichotomy. Sent from my daily driver Librem 5 running GNU/Linux.
jwr 5mo ago
I still remember how Google execs were using the word "open" almost as a comma. Android was Open, Google was Open, this was so different from the Closed Apple World. Everything would be Open! I hope we will remember this lesson and learn from it. Calling something "open" doesn't make it so, and anything owned by a large corporation will eventually succumb to the direction taken by the corporation. And large corporations have goals where you, the user, are not a consideration, you are just a part of their money-making machinery.
mvdwoord 5mo ago
I have recently made the same move... mostly because it allowed me to stop using my google and microsoft accounts. Moved all personal (and family domain) and business from google workspace / O365 all into fastmail. Bought an iPhone (already worked with macs and an iPad for more than a decade. Not about particular preferences but this setup allows me to only be dependent on one bigcorp. Android still requires a google account, the rest was not necessary but I have above all else made a mental switch to simplify. I do not feel iOS is particularly better... some things are, some things are not. Yes android was more customizable, and yes the universal back and home buttons are still better than the multi tap and hidden gestures on iOS. But overall some pleasantries such as shared clipboard, seamless headphone switch over, and overall simplification so far, is working very well for me. I simply need a phone on a major platform, as my job (and life) requires to have certain apps which only run on (non-rooted) Android or iOS phones. And I am tired of fighting and adapting.. so I now just use most of the default apps everywhere, and whatever does or does not work, I take it mostly as-is. For now it seems to allow me to just worry less about it and focus on the things I actually want or need to do .. send email, read message, visit a website, listen to a podcast and not fret about the tiniest of UX details. I would love to live in a world where I could run around with a customized linux laptop and some sort of privacy respecting phone (e.g. Graphene) but the hurdles are not really worth it to me anymore. Sad in a way, as without counter pressure.. things will not necessarily get better, I know. The 22C3 talk by Rop and Frank I think was depressing, and true. We lost the war. https://events.ccc.de/congress/2005/fahrplan/events/920.en.html https://events.ccc.de/congress/2005/fahrplan/events/920.en.h...
palata 5mo ago
> the only value that Android really offered me was the ability to run my own code on my own device. Since they are taking that away Except they are not. And you can actually do that on iOS.

by pngwen 5mo ago

tossit444 5mo ago

So you moved into a walled garden in an attempt to escape what's essentially a 3 foot picket fenced garden.

randyrand 5mo ago
If you cant beat them join them
- rootusrootus 5mo ago
  If you are stuck in a walled garden either way, might at least try to get the benefits of it.
  - catlikesshrimp 5mo ago
    Includes status symbol and ecosystem lock!
    - pocksuppet 5mo ago
      So does Android, but without the status symbol, the high res screen, or the integration with your laptop.
      - estebank 5mo ago
        I haven't found the need for deeper integration with my laptop beyond what KDE connect is capable of, and my Pixel has a high enough resolution that I can't notice pixels :)
    - rootusrootus 5mo ago
      If it is a status symbol, it really ain't working for me. I must be doing something wrong.
      - wolvoleo 5mo ago
        It depends where. In Spain people use it for that because iPhones are incredibly expensive here compared to the standard of living. What doesn't help is that the SE/e models are also way more expensive than in the US. As a result it's mainly rich people and tourists that own them. Most people use budget android phones, the kind that still come with 3,5mm jacks. You still see wired earphones a lot.
  - orthecreedence 5mo ago
    The iOS app store is like the craigslist personals of online markets. I feel incredibly dirty just going on there. I have to scroll down 3-5 options just to find the exact match for what I searched for, many of the prioritized options being look-alikes that could easily fool people into installing some malware-esque garbage. I love my 13 mini as a phone, but I don't understand how anyone could compare the two app stores and think iOS comes out on top. At least android has f-droid.
    - rootusrootus 5mo ago
      I almost never go to the app store to find an app, but I can understand how that would be really frustrating. Sounds like they need to get serious about curating the app store content. From my perspective, the walled garden value I get is predominantly in the integrations between my phone, macbook, and watch. And to a lesser extent (because it's a bit buggy at times) the family integrations.
      - orthecreedence 5mo ago
        Integrations makes sense, but I'm 100% sold on linux/PCs at this point and I don't care about wearables so my phone is just a phone. Luckily I'm not on the app store much, but if the walled garden is a cesspool already then maybe opening the gates a bit isn't such a bad idea.
- pestat0m 5mo ago
  It's probably worth mentioning that as far as i know this change does not affect AOSP phones[1]. I'm currently living with a Kyocera flip-phone[3] for the past few years. I even got F-droid installed, though it turned out to not work all that great on a flip. I wish more people wrote apps for flips. I keep intending to look into writing my own APK if i ever get the chance. As i understand it, it's a bit like The Wild West, though there are places where you can get flip-phone apps[2] like maps, media players, messengers, etc.. i just never seem to have time to look more into this(and i'm a little concerned about getting scammed). I did manage recently to successfully tether my old touch-phone to my flip for a car trip i took, so i could get data to the touch and run maps(i feel somewhat clever to have sidestepped Big Tech on that issue). Hopefully i'll get some time one day to look more into flip-apps. [1] https://source.android.com/ https://source.android.com/ [2] https://www.apkmirror.com/ https://www.apkmirror.com/ [3] https://www.kyoceramobile.com/rugged-devices/duraxv-extreme-plus#1361858218 https://www.kyoceramobile.com/rugged-devices/duraxv-extreme-...
HWR_14 5mo ago
If there are two walled gardens, you might as well choose the prettier one.
- gslepak 5mo ago
  Or choose freedom. I've been enjoying GrapheneOS for a couple of years now and recommend it.
  - muwtyhg 5mo ago
    Do you run into issues with apps not supporting it? Things like banking or auth? That is the main complaint I see for alternative phone OSes, and I don't know if that has gotten any better.
    - pocksuppet 5mo ago
      My bank detected someone logging in with my password from a GrapheneOS phone and made me change my password and scan my face. That was dumb. With that out of the way, and the device now seemingly authorized, it still doesn't work, because when I log in, the app restarts. That could be a real compatibility problem.
      - ffsm8 5mo ago
        Yeah, I tried that out last year when this whole debacle was announced for the first time. I'm not going back to paying without my phone. So yeah, I'm not going to a free platform either. the choice really is mostly down to Google's Android or iOS - unless you're ready to make sacrifices. If you are... More power to you! I'm not (at this point in my life) right now.
    - AnthonyMouse 5mo ago
      There are essentially two separate issues here. The first is the anti-trust angle. Some subset of bank apps don't work because of attestation and that's a significant barrier to adoption for switching to competitors, so it ought to be an anti-trust violation for the platform to do that. The second is, you try it and discover that your bank doesn't work. If you want it bad enough you can switch banks, and the fact that it doesn't work is a signal that your bank has a weak security team who is just cargo culting deleterious vendor nonsense without evaluating whether it has any real security value. (The use case for attestation is completely orthogonal to bank apps because it can't prevent credential stealing from compromised phones running a fake app since the fake app won't require attestation, and it can't prevent attackers from using stolen credentials to transfer funds because once they have the credentials they can just use a normal phone, and that's the case even if the attestation was completely airtight, which it isn't. Meanwhile the devices that can pass attestation are generally more vulnerable because it implies they're running the more-likely-to-be-outdated OS that came with the device rather than a third party upgrade with more recent patches, so they're essentially encouraging their customers to not upgrade their OS. Banks that do this are wearing clown makeup and you have to ask if you trust them with your money.)
lynndotpy 5mo ago
For an Android user, iOS offers better privacy (which can change at any time), but it also comes baked in with better support for some open protocols. (SMB on Files, and CalDAV/CardDAV for Calendars/Contacts/Notes integration). This has been the case for years, while aspects of the 'walled garden' have eroded over time. It's natural that this huge Android regression might be enough for someone to dip their toes into the other side.
- politelemon 5mo ago
  > iOS offers better privacy No, it markets lockin dressed up as privacy. Convincing you that they are the same thing is the real magic here.
  - lynndotpy 5mo ago
    No, it might sound smart, but it's incorrect to equivocate. You don't need to "lock in" to Apple's services either. Apple has a meaningfully better track record than Google on privacy in many regards. (Apple's Terms of Service is also much better, for not having an arbitration clause anywhere except the Apple credit card, with a very easy opt-out flow.)

BatteryMountain 5mo ago

I'm on this path too. Waiting a few more months to see what happens. If they indeed block my 4 apps on my phone (which aren't published anywhere), I will simply move to Apple.

catlikesshrimp 5mo ago
Will your 4 unpublished apps be in your android-alternative apple device? Android will still have the ability to install non-google-distributed programs. The problem is the ominous momentum, but it is still more open than the apple alternative
- i_am_jl 5mo ago
  I'm not the commenter you replied to, but I'm doing the same math they are and coming up with the same answer. From my perspective iOS is better than Android in a number of ways but Android always won out overall for me, in large part because of the freedom regarding software. Remove that freedom from the equation, I think the balance tips towards iOS.
  - seszett 5mo ago
    I always wonder what these unspecified ways that iOS is better than Android actually are. These posts always have a few comments like that, but they never actually say what they find to be better on iOS.
    - lynndotpy 5mo ago
      I'll bite. For me, Google services are not an option, so my Android experience is sans-Google. Until September 2025, I'd say iOS had actually gotten better than Android. CalDAV, CardDAV, and SMB are baked into iOS, whereas these are onerous to set up on Android. These are very very nice protocols, and I use them all daily. (Contacts, Calendars, Notes, Reminders, and Files.) Apple's developer ecosystem lacks the FOSS devs that make F-Droid so good, but they do have a number of devs who release paid apps with zero tracking, which is very nice. It's often the case an app exists on iOS as a $5 one-time fee with a two-paragraph privacy policy for which one does not exist on Fdroid. Shortcuts work well enough, homescreen customization is good enough, etc. that a number of the original Android draws are gone. There are a number of points where iOS and Android are equals now. iCloud's E2EE photo backup is something I reluctantly started using and found to be very nice, after having had de-Googled in 2018. I miss having my photos auto-upload and be available on other devices, and Apple has had iCloud Web for awhile. This is nicer than the options I have on Android. And while Android's notification-panel tiles have gotten worse over the years (down from six to two controls on the first swipe, this was what alienated me and got me to try iOS), iOS now has a much denser "control center". The big caveat is the gigantic regression that is iOS 26. The phone is slower, it kills battery, the native apps are constantly crashing, the lockscreen and homescreen often have broken navigation flows, etc. It's a travesty that never should have been released and iOS is easily worse than Android right now. If someone needed a phone today, I couldn't recommend an iPhone, but that might change with iOS 27.

fainpul 5mo ago

Even after Google puts this crap in place, you can still uplodad your own apps to your own Android devices, using ADB. Doing the same for iOS, using Xcode, costs you USD 100 or more (depending on country) per year. I'm in no way defending Google here, just pointing out you're going from bad to worse and think it's a good thing.

brandonhorst 5mo ago
This is not true, running your code on your phone with Xcode has always been free.
- quantumleaper 5mo ago
  With a free account, it needs to be reinstalled every 7 days because the signature expires. It's hardly convenient for personal use.
  - dylan604 5mo ago
    [flagged]
    - therein 5mo ago
      It happens. Sometimes you're done making updates to a personal app you use that you wrote.
    - AnthonyMouse 5mo ago
      Every 7 days, forever? At some point you have the thing working to your satisfaction and just want to continue using it.
      - deleted 5mo ago
        [deleted]
      - Terr_ 5mo ago
        Hell, maybe you just want it to not break during a long vacation. Or maybe everything is normal, but, oops, you forgot the last renewal and it stops working exactly the moment you needed it most.

empyrrhicist 5mo ago

> the vastly superior apple experience After switching away from GrapheneOS to iOS after RCS stopped working for me, I can safely say my experience has been the opposite. The camera is the only thing better for me on iOS - everything else is buggier and worse. A few of my favorites: 1. Safari is buggy as hell, and requires installing apps to run things like ad blockers. 2. The settings are ALL over the place and very hard to navigate 3. The gestures are clunky - often have to try a couple times to get one of the settings quick menus to drop down 4. Why is the date not displayed at the top of the screen with the time outside of the lock screen? 5. The pin unlock is horribly broken - I have to slow way down to use it compared to Android. 6. Apple maps is hot garbage. I had to install Google Maps anyway to get decent performance. 7. The handling of audio devices seems intentionally malicious - like if I call someone from my car through car play, it shouldn't send the audio out through the phone earpiece. If a call begins with phone earpiece audio and is underway, it shouldn't switch several seconds in to bluetooth headset half a house. I'm going back for my next phone.

dtj1123 5mo ago
I'm considering switching to GrapheneOS... What's this about RCS not working?
- Cider9986 5mo ago
  If you don't want to invest in getting your contacts on Signal, you can try OpenBubbles. It gets iMessage on Android devices and works fine. I highly recommend switching to GOS, it is wayyy better than iOS UX-wise and obviously better privsec and freedom. One thing that I had to do when I first got GOS, to get a better experience, was find all the Open Source apps that I needed. Otherwise, it looks rather bland and the apps are mid. Once you find the right apps and launcher, everything works much better.
- scblock 5mo ago
  RCS can be hit or miss on GrapheneOS, but they have made significant progress recently. It requires using Google Messages rather than any other messaging app, and may require enabling an ICC authentication option that is disabled by default. And it may depend on your carrier. RCS is kind of a pain in the butt but the messaging improvements over SMS are substantial which is why I wanted it. When I first tried last fall I had it working for a few weeks then it stopped entirely delivering messages and I fell back to SMS only. After the recent system updates and enabling the ICC option it has been working well for me. The official page explains briefly, https://grapheneos.org/usage#rcs https://grapheneos.org/usage#rcs There is a very long discussion threat going back several years that is now considered resolved, which seems to be the case for me. https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/1353-using-rcs-with-google-messages-on-grapheneos https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/1353-using-rcs-with-google-...

Cider9986 5mo ago

GrapheneOS is the answer. Apple's software is really buggy compared to Android and Linux.

theK 5mo ago
Or /e/
- Cider9986 5mo ago
  GrapheneOS is significantly more secure, more private, and more free. Not sure why you would use /e/.
  - rstat1 5mo ago
    and limited to one type of device that not everyone can get or wants.
    - subscribed 5mo ago
      Only because this is the one family of the devices secure enough to even bother with software security. It's not their fault (plus since 2027 we expect the first Motorola handset secure enough tu be supported by GOS) And at least they don't cheat on patches :)
  - theK 5mo ago
    Well, for one you can actually buy an /e/ device right now. Also, once you have it, it just works. Some people like that.
    - easterncalculus 5mo ago
      If there's one thing I've learned about the custom Android community (and to a lesser extent, the Android community) it's that "it actually works" isn't really important or convincing to them.
    - 5mo ago

Dwedit 5mo ago

Now you just have to deal with Apple's hostile repairability situation. Cryptographically-mated parts are just the beginning.

thefz 5mo ago

Ah yes macOS, the notoriously open platform.

627467 5mo ago

> stop being yours As if most android maker phones don't already fully own your device - preventing you from unlocking of bootloader and installing an OS that actually doesnt enforce the restriction google is introducing in their flavour of android. To pretend that with this change android becomes exactly like iOS is... ridiculous? I can pick any 10yo old android phone from my drawer and develop for it, no problem and without asking for permissions. And if I'm already this motivated I'm certainly motivated enough to wait 24hs on future (more locked down) devices. Do you think people who download NewPipe and alike - to circumvent ads and enable premium features - would think twice because they need to wait 24hs? Will NewPipe devs stop developing (anonymously) because of a small fraction of users who refuse to (or won't) go through unlocking steps? Show me all these "rebel" apps on iOS ecosystem that can be easily distributed on any channel: fdroid, github, telegram groups, etc. But sure, if you thinking moving to iOS is the same, sounds like you never really made use of any of the freedoms android used to and will continue to provide

bigyabai 5mo ago
In the words of a Great American: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
- fuzztester 5mo ago
  Lincoln?
  - tejtm 5mo ago
    Benny.
- rimliu 5mo ago
  AFAIK there is more to that quote and it is usually misrepresented.
  - bigyabai 5mo ago

svat 5mo ago

Here is a table I just made (edit: changed to list as HN wraps code blocks now), of iOS vs Android (now) vs Android (after Sep 2026 or 2027 or whenever these announced changes take effect): •1. Where most users can install software from: ↠↠ iOS: official store (App Store) + (in EU) other stores ↠↠ Android (now): official store (Play Store), other stores (e.g. F-Droid), arbitrary APKs ↠↠ Android (after changes): official store (Play Store), other stores (e.g. F-Droid), arbitrary APKs •2. Who the developers of software can be: ↠↠ iOS: registered developers ($99/year) ↠↠ Android (now): any developer ↠↠ Android (after changes): registered developers ($25 one-time) + hobbyists (small distribution) + any developers (for advanced users) •3. Installing your own apps on your own phone, without becoming a registered developer: ↠↠ iOS: using XCode: need to reinstall every 7 days. ↠↠ Android (now): using ADB ↠↠ Android (after changes): using ADB The second row (•2) is what is changing in Android. I think "the ability to run my own code on my own device", narrowly speaking, is closest to the third row, which is not changing.

gvurrdon 5mo ago
Android does indeed still look better. But, I would not consider having to send a copy of my government ID to Google, or having them be able to block apps when so ordered by government, to be acceptable.
- socalgal2 5mo ago
  I agree it’s not acceptable. so then iOS is just as not acceptable as it has all the same issues and worse. this thread started as switching to iOS
  - greycol 5mo ago
    Yeah but the situation used to be you don't need to jump through flaming hoops on android and you do need to jump through flaming hoops on ios for installing. Now it's you have to jump through X flaming hoops on android and X+Y on ios for installing. If I'm not going to jump through flaming hoops then I'm not installing so it doesn't matter what Y is in the equation and I'm not taking into account installing when comparing those devices, which mean ios might be a better proposition. Alternatively if the difficulty of moving from 0->X is not negligible but moving from X->X+Y is then I may still be installing but I'm not considering the Y in the comparison then either. i.e. If I have to show my id to google once and apple twice it's the initial showing that is the turn off, or if it's the action of getting my credit card out in the 1st place rather than the cost difference that concerns me.

nickburns 5mo ago

So basically—both Apple and Alphabet love the way you think.

a456463 5mo ago

This is literally the dumbest take I have seen! iOS charges you and limits your custom app until a few days and you have to "renew" Even before this change, I have my custom apps running forever.

munk-a 5mo ago

Apple still doesn't allow you to control individual app volume to silence/dim certain applications in multi-play mode though, right? As someone who hates disturbances this is the killer feature that has kept me with samsung - well that and fdroid which is currently endangered.

NamlchakKhandro 5mo ago

You have bought a walled garden lock, it can be picked with a walled garden lock.

frostyel 5mo ago

[dead]

GroksBarnacles 5mo ago

Dumb question, can you explain the benefits of IOS? I've only tried using an iPhone ~10 years ago before I got into tech

kulahan 5mo ago
It's unbelievably useful within its own walled garden. There are lots of instances where commands, tabs, and other pieces of data transfer seamlessly between your phone and computer. You can bring your phone up as a digital version ON your laptop so you can call, text, etc. straight from it while your phone sits in the bedroom charging or whatever. Everything works really, really well. Their walled garden has always been pretty top-tier.
- eks391 5mo ago
  So would you say that the value of Apple products increases as you have more of them (higher than just the linear benefit of more products)? I've used them, but always as one offs. For example, Ive had a Mac(book? The one that you connect periphery to use) as a work computer at a previous software job, the iPhone because of a girl I dated who wouldn't be with a green bubble man, and iPad also in a previous job, so never together or actually adopted in personal life, so I didn't get sold.
  - kulahan 5mo ago
    Yes, significantly. That’s a great way to put it. My dad is all-in, and I’m pretty surprised at how nice things can be. Still, it’s like a credit card with a fee. It’s great so long as you can pay, but oftentimes it’s a nightmare to get out of if times are tough.

matheusmoreira 5mo ago

I will do the same if they lock down Android. If I must be in a walled garden, then I'm going to choose the better kept garden, and it sure as hell isn't Google's. There is absolutely zero reason to tolerate the shittiness of Android if they take away the relative freedom it gives us. GrapheneOS is the last hope of the Android ecosystem, and if Google keeps locking things down that's not going to last either.

dcow 5mo ago

I did this too, but it happened almost 10 years ago when Google started locking down Android in the name of battery life. I saw the writing on the walls and said if Android is going to be just like iOS because we collectively can’t have nice things, then at least I’ll live out that sad reality on better hardware.

darepublic 5mo ago

iOS still more locked down than Google. When I started reading this I thought you were going true open source

digitist 5mo ago

[dead]

socalgal2 5mo ago

No, Android still offers way more features than iOS. Replace the lock screen with a custom app Replace the home screen with a custom app Set default apps for SMS, phone service, assistant, camera, photo gallery. all things you can not change on iOS Always on widgets and dynamic wallpapers It has a much more customizable inter app communication system so that you can get more apps to be the default viewers At allows true background tasks like say a BitTorrent client It supports shared storage like SMB and a user accessible file system Custom NFC apps USB host mode Multiple users/profiles And about 70 other things

rimliu 5mo ago
As a wise man once said - Android when you want to do thing TO your phone, iOS when you want do to thing with your phone.

ugh123 5mo ago

They are absolutely not taking away your ability to run your own code

catcowcostume 5mo ago
But he needed an excuse to buy an iphone

wolvoleo 5mo ago

You're in an even worse ecosystem now, an apple phone never even has been yours.

globular-toast 5mo ago

Leaving one abusive partner for another is hardly a win. It's pathetic.

raincole 5mo ago

You just proved that the ability of installing whatever apps you want isn't that vital, don't you?

dariosalvi78 5mo ago

I used to own a house, I could decorate it the way I wanted. It was hard work, but it was mine! Then they locked it, so I went to live in a luxury hotel, it's more expensive, I can't decide how I want it and I don't own anything, but it's such a superior experience!

rimliu 5mo ago
Some want ownership, some want experience. People differ, who might have thought.
- dariosalvi78 5mo ago
  it's not the choice, it's the argument: OP seems to be happy to give up freedom (he or she initially cherished) because everything now is crap anyways, so let's just bathe in shit and celebrate it...

fsflover 5mo ago

I'm so tired of this false dichotomy. Sent from my daily driver Librem 5 running GNU/Linux.

jwr 5mo ago

I still remember how Google execs were using the word "open" almost as a comma. Android was Open, Google was Open, this was so different from the Closed Apple World. Everything would be Open! I hope we will remember this lesson and learn from it. Calling something "open" doesn't make it so, and anything owned by a large corporation will eventually succumb to the direction taken by the corporation. And large corporations have goals where you, the user, are not a consideration, you are just a part of their money-making machinery.

mvdwoord 5mo ago

I have recently made the same move... mostly because it allowed me to stop using my google and microsoft accounts. Moved all personal (and family domain) and business from google workspace / O365 all into fastmail. Bought an iPhone (already worked with macs and an iPad for more than a decade. Not about particular preferences but this setup allows me to only be dependent on one bigcorp. Android still requires a google account, the rest was not necessary but I have above all else made a mental switch to simplify. I do not feel iOS is particularly better... some things are, some things are not. Yes android was more customizable, and yes the universal back and home buttons are still better than the multi tap and hidden gestures on iOS. But overall some pleasantries such as shared clipboard, seamless headphone switch over, and overall simplification so far, is working very well for me. I simply need a phone on a major platform, as my job (and life) requires to have certain apps which only run on (non-rooted) Android or iOS phones. And I am tired of fighting and adapting.. so I now just use most of the default apps everywhere, and whatever does or does not work, I take it mostly as-is. For now it seems to allow me to just worry less about it and focus on the things I actually want or need to do .. send email, read message, visit a website, listen to a podcast and not fret about the tiniest of UX details. I would love to live in a world where I could run around with a customized linux laptop and some sort of privacy respecting phone (e.g. Graphene) but the hurdles are not really worth it to me anymore. Sad in a way, as without counter pressure.. things will not necessarily get better, I know. The 22C3 talk by Rop and Frank I think was depressing, and true. We lost the war. https://events.ccc.de/congress/2005/fahrplan/events/920.en.html https://events.ccc.de/congress/2005/fahrplan/events/920.en.h...

palata 5mo ago

> the only value that Android really offered me was the ability to run my own code on my own device. Since they are taking that away Except they are not. And you can actually do that on iOS.