6 ms·

> Seems to me like they say one thing, do another, and all of us hold the bag at the end of it all. Yup. It's the same lie that the GOP cares about deficits a

> Seems to me like they say one thing, do another, and all of us hold the bag at the end of it all. Yup. It's the same lie that the GOP cares about deficits and debt… except when they're in power and want to do tax cuts for the rich.

owlcompliance 6mo ago
As a former staunch Republican, if there's one thing I've learned, it's that both parties have sold us out. I disagree with a lot of the Left's policies and many on the Right as well, but both parties advocate, in theory, for several things that would benefit all Americans -- yet it never happens. Republicans advocate for fiscal responsibility -- never happens. Democrats advocate for things like healthcare and cancelling student loans -- never happens. The Democrats held the House, Senate, and Presidency in 2021 for two years. The Republicans currently hold the House, Senate, and Presidency right now. They're in power for themselves and their disregard for us is by design.
- cwal37 6mo ago
  What did Republican appointees on the Supreme Court have to say about student loan forgiveness? Who not only fights tooth and nail against healthcare improvements but actively took money from existing programs to fund a national police and detainment apparatus? Which party produced the most meaningful (albeit not far enough) healthcare reform of the 21st century in the US? Those examples in particular are quite rough to try and both sides.
  - encoderer 6mo ago
    Where I live (California) there are basically no republicans in power. For a long time now. And we have more money and a better economic base than just about anywhere on the planet Earth. So to all the partisans out there who are sure things would be better if "their side" had total control, I ask: what the hell is going on with California then?? We should be modeling the best governance in the country and even the world, but yet, our government is basically dysfunctional and our state is great despite it.
    - wat10000 6mo ago
      That's easily answered. They think California is a hellhole that everyone with means is fleeing. "Vote for Democrats to turn your state into California" is a great way to get people on both sides to vote for their own preferred side.
      - redsocksfan45 6mo ago
        [dead]
    - pchristensen 6mo ago
      California has structural obstacles that don’t fit into partisan politics. Proposition 13 limits property tax collection, which warps housing development and many other factors. Also, California has high incomes, which means Californians pay more federal income tax, and the state receives less back in federal benefits, to the tune of almost $100 billion a year. Those are significant headwinds that the state would still have to deal with even if it was governed well.
      - Melatonic 6mo ago
        Prop 13 is brought up a lot but it never made any sense to me that it also applies to commercial real estate used for businesses. I can see an argument for single family homes (primary dwellings) but property that large corporations own ? It makes no sense.
        irishcoffee 6mo ago
        Occams razor: it was never about the SFH owners...
        pchristensen 6mo ago
        It was created by and for homeowners, but businesses aren't going to pass up a gift like that. It's actually worse for commercial property - building are owned by separate single purpose corporations, and if you want to sell the building, you sell fractions of the ownership in the corporation over time so there's never a big enough change to trigger a tax reassessment.
  - christkv 6mo ago
    That was executive orders that got shutdown and its because congress controls the purse and they did not pass a law.
    - msie 6mo ago
      Well, the Dems tried but the GOP shut that plan down.
    - lumost 6mo ago
      I'm sorry, but what kind of CalvinBall allows this argument to be made in good faith? https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/executive-orders https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/executive-or... I had Claude dig through the orders to pick out substantive examples where the courts ultimately allowed the order to go through USAID's dismantlement is the top instance which has an affirmative legal ruling. However unilateral grant freezes, tariffs, and other issues are still progressing in the courts. While I'd certainly like to return to the world where congress handled the democratic duties of law making, budget, and war declarations. I must acknowledge that we no longer appear to have separation of powers.
    - UltraSane 6mo ago
      That certainly doesn't seem to apply to Trump
  - owlcompliance 6mo ago
    [flagged]
    - hypeatei 6mo ago
      [flagged]
      - ecshafer 6mo ago
        [flagged]
        hypeatei 6mo ago
        Uhm, did we read the same comment? There were many things listed that only a demented fox news watcher would go off about in one comment. What specific thing does "80% of America" support?
        selectodude 6mo ago
        [Citation needed]
        deleted 6mo ago
        [deleted]
        Terr_ 6mo ago
        > a view point largely supported No, you're playing a rhetorical game, trying to con readers with a switcheroo between pairs of "viewpoints" that aren't actually the same thing at all. For example: 1. "The liberals are everywhere trying to teach our children something wrong! They're telling them men can become pregnant!" 2. "Men--by which I implicitly mean people without the parts for it--cannot become pregnant." Only the second one common and banal, unless you ask someone with a weird fetish, or perhaps a fan of Schwarzenegger and Danny Devito eager to talk about the film Junior. In contrast, the first one is not solely a medical belief, but also a claim about what others advocate, and the average American--or average HN commenter--may quite rightly judge you a weirdo for internalizing and repeating it.
      - Terr_ 6mo ago
- throw0101c 6mo ago
  > Republicans advocate for fiscal responsibility -- never happens. Democrats advocate for things like healthcare and cancelling student loans -- never happens. From what I've seen, Republicans don't bother trying. Democrats try and get blocked by the GOP; not sure if they can 'try harder' or find ways around the blocking. Biden certainly tried on student loans and got shot down: * https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/white-house-press-release-president-joe-biden-announces-74-billion-student-debt https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/white-house-press-... After trying to be bi-partisan with the ACA/Obamacare the Democrats just went forward with it
- tempaccount5050 6mo ago
  [flagged]
  - aaronbrethorst 6mo ago
    [flagged]
    - toomanyrichies 6mo ago
      [flagged]
      - throwaway173738 6mo ago
        Why siphon gas when you can just steal the car?
- triceratops 6mo ago
  > Democrats advocate for things like healthcare and cancelling student loans -- never happens Obama got Obamacare done in the single 6-month window in this century when Democrats could pass legislation without Republicans blocking them. Biden tried to cancel student loans and was blocked in court because surprise, surprise, Republicans wouldn't allow it to go through Congress. > The Democrats held the House, Senate, and Presidency in 2021 for two years Read up on the Senate filibuster to understand why Republicans could block student loan cancellation (and anything else Democrats wanted) despite this. In theory both parties are part of the same system and complicit and corrupt. In actual practice one party is much worse than the other. By a lot. Republicans win elections by blocking anything that's good for ordinary Americans, and blaming Democrats for their lives getting worse as a result. Voters are too dumb and distracted to see the con.
  - FireBeyond 6mo ago
    > Republicans win elections by blocking anything that's good for ordinary Americans This. Mitch McConnell literally was on camera, and said, quote, that Republicans would block any bill Obama or the Democrats tried to pass, even if it was good for America and Americans, because the Republican's priority was to make Obama's term ineffectual. Not to govern the country. But to actively prevent governance of the country. Even at a cost to its people. They didn't care. And they were open enough about it to say it on the record.
    - throw0101a 6mo ago
      * https://www.politico.com/story/2010/10/the-gops-no-compromise-pledge-044311 https://www.politico.com/story/2010/10/the-gops-no-compromis...
- croes 6mo ago
  Two Santas https://www.milwaukeeindependent.com/featured/two-santas-strategy-republicans-use-saint-nicholas-scrooge-shift-economic-messages/ https://www.milwaukeeindependent.com/featured/two-santas-str...
- vouwfietsman 6mo ago
  [flagged]
- helterskelter 6mo ago
  It's almost like we're treated as a resource to be exploited instead of the foundation of a democratic republic.
- hypeatei 6mo ago
  [flagged]
- reducesuffering 6mo ago
  "Democrats advocate for things like healthcare and cancelling student loans -- never happens." You're blaming Democrats for things they try to do and are blocked by Republicans...
  - lotsofpulp 6mo ago
    They need to make themselves feel better by believing could not have made a better choice. It doesn’t matter that federal Democrats enabled the largest wealth transfer in the last 3 decades with ACA, by the smallest of margins. Or that a Democrat president increased the overtime exempt wage from $30k per year to $50k per year. Or that Biden tried to get paid parental leave and paid sick leave, but was thwarted at every turn by a Republican Congress. The important thing is for the voter to not take accountability for their actions, so “both sides”. I write this not as a “Democrat” (I despise them on the state and local level), just as someone who has seen Republicans literally only pass tax cuts and reduce women’s access to healthcare in the last 3 decades. Oh, and try to overturn an election and then pardon traitors.
    - buellerbueller 6mo ago
      And steal a SCOTUS nomination opportunity.
  - reactordev 6mo ago
    You can not have a for-profit system and a government subsidized one. It needs to either be single payor, or a free-for-all. Anytime you have two markets, one will dominate the other. In our case, the subsidized market was forced to pay to play.
    - fredophile 6mo ago
      > You can not have a for-profit system and a government subsidized one Have you told Australia? They seem to think they've been able to do this for a while now.
  - AngryData 6mo ago
- wat10000 6mo ago
  I'm not a big fan of Democrats, but at least they're somewhat trying. Obamacare should have at least had a public option, but they got a big thing done there. Student loan cancellation was done poorly but it was attempted. And each of the last three (at least) Democratic administrations have reduced the deficit, so they've got the fiscal responsibility thing going as well. Keep in mind that the Senate de facto requires 60 votes to pass almost anything these days. In this millennium, Democrats held enough seats to overcome that for about two months, and there was no margin at all. Hence the lack of a public option: Joe Lieberman didn't want it, and without him the whole thing didn't pass.
- msie 6mo ago
  No, both sides are not equal. Biden tried to cancel student loans.
- mindslight 6mo ago
  As a libertarian I strongly agree with this in isolation. But your follow up comment (now flagged) is chock full of the standard Republican social media dementia, so this original comment is actually yet another instance of lofty ideals being dishonestly abused to run cover for something even worse. For all of the actual criticisms that can be levied at them, Democrats aren't the ones throwing our institutions onto the scrap heap, alienating our allies, or cheering on autocracy.
- jasonlotito 6mo ago
  > Democrats advocate for things like healthcare and cancelling student loans -- never happens. That's a lie. > Republicans advocate for fiscal responsibility -- never happens. Happened under a Democrat. > As a former staunch Republican, if there's one thing I've learned, it's that both parties have sold us out. Ahhh, it makes sense now.
- reactordev 6mo ago
  This. Same team, different jerseys.
- tootie 6mo ago
  Biden forgave student loans and conservative SCOTUS stopped him. Dems passed ACA and expanded Medicaid and CHIP. Republicans cut them both. I could go on but I'm sure you know all this. Dems aren't perfect. Nobody ever is and it's unreasonable to expect that. They have pushed legitimate progress. Republicans almost exclusively cause harm to protect the upper class. Retreating into cynicism is just a way to absolve yourself of any civic responsibility.
- bdangubic 6mo ago
  > Republicans advocate for fiscal responsibility The “advocate” only during election cycle and then add more debt and spend more than 10 Democratic Parties combined. Democrats are not great either but they try to push through what they preach
- fredophile 6mo ago
  > Democrats advocate for things like healthcare and cancelling student loans -- never happens Democrats passed the ACA under Obama. Republicans have been trying to get it repealed with only moderate success ever since. Biden announced student loan forgiveness in 2023. The Supreme Court struck it down in 2023. Democrats have been able to get done at least some of the things they said they would.
- tclancy 6mo ago
  I am trying to assume good intent, but this is like a template for when they say "Foreign actors are being paid to sew discord". They always open with "I used to be a big believer in X" about a binary situation but rather than explaining the reason they now believe in Y they return some vague nihilistic viewpoint. Nuts to that. The Democratic Party in the US sucks like an Electrolux and I will still happily vote for them because we are, for better or worse, in a two party system and it's what we've got. Saying it's all the same is misguided at best, a knowing lie at worst.
- deleted 6mo ago
  [deleted]

owlcompliance 6mo ago

As a former staunch Republican, if there's one thing I've learned, it's that both parties have sold us out. I disagree with a lot of the Left's policies and many on the Right as well, but both parties advocate, in theory, for several things that would benefit all Americans -- yet it never happens. Republicans advocate for fiscal responsibility -- never happens. Democrats advocate for things like healthcare and cancelling student loans -- never happens. The Democrats held the House, Senate, and Presidency in 2021 for two years. The Republicans currently hold the House, Senate, and Presidency right now. They're in power for themselves and their disregard for us is by design.

cwal37 6mo ago
What did Republican appointees on the Supreme Court have to say about student loan forgiveness? Who not only fights tooth and nail against healthcare improvements but actively took money from existing programs to fund a national police and detainment apparatus? Which party produced the most meaningful (albeit not far enough) healthcare reform of the 21st century in the US? Those examples in particular are quite rough to try and both sides.
- encoderer 6mo ago
  Where I live (California) there are basically no republicans in power. For a long time now. And we have more money and a better economic base than just about anywhere on the planet Earth. So to all the partisans out there who are sure things would be better if "their side" had total control, I ask: what the hell is going on with California then?? We should be modeling the best governance in the country and even the world, but yet, our government is basically dysfunctional and our state is great despite it.
  - wat10000 6mo ago
    That's easily answered. They think California is a hellhole that everyone with means is fleeing. "Vote for Democrats to turn your state into California" is a great way to get people on both sides to vote for their own preferred side.
    - redsocksfan45 6mo ago
      [dead]
  - pchristensen 6mo ago
    California has structural obstacles that don’t fit into partisan politics. Proposition 13 limits property tax collection, which warps housing development and many other factors. Also, California has high incomes, which means Californians pay more federal income tax, and the state receives less back in federal benefits, to the tune of almost $100 billion a year. Those are significant headwinds that the state would still have to deal with even if it was governed well.
    - Melatonic 6mo ago
      Prop 13 is brought up a lot but it never made any sense to me that it also applies to commercial real estate used for businesses. I can see an argument for single family homes (primary dwellings) but property that large corporations own ? It makes no sense.
      - irishcoffee 6mo ago
        Occams razor: it was never about the SFH owners...
      - pchristensen 6mo ago
        It was created by and for homeowners, but businesses aren't going to pass up a gift like that. It's actually worse for commercial property - building are owned by separate single purpose corporations, and if you want to sell the building, you sell fractions of the ownership in the corporation over time so there's never a big enough change to trigger a tax reassessment.
- christkv 6mo ago
  That was executive orders that got shutdown and its because congress controls the purse and they did not pass a law.
  - msie 6mo ago
    Well, the Dems tried but the GOP shut that plan down.
  - lumost 6mo ago
    I'm sorry, but what kind of CalvinBall allows this argument to be made in good faith? https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/executive-orders https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/executive-or... I had Claude dig through the orders to pick out substantive examples where the courts ultimately allowed the order to go through USAID's dismantlement is the top instance which has an affirmative legal ruling. However unilateral grant freezes, tariffs, and other issues are still progressing in the courts. While I'd certainly like to return to the world where congress handled the democratic duties of law making, budget, and war declarations. I must acknowledge that we no longer appear to have separation of powers.
  - UltraSane 6mo ago
    That certainly doesn't seem to apply to Trump
- owlcompliance 6mo ago
  [flagged]
  - hypeatei 6mo ago
    [flagged]
    - ecshafer 6mo ago
      [flagged]
      - hypeatei 6mo ago
        Uhm, did we read the same comment? There were many things listed that only a demented fox news watcher would go off about in one comment. What specific thing does "80% of America" support?
      - selectodude 6mo ago
        [Citation needed]
      - deleted 6mo ago
        [deleted]
      - Terr_ 6mo ago
        > a view point largely supported No, you're playing a rhetorical game, trying to con readers with a switcheroo between pairs of "viewpoints" that aren't actually the same thing at all. For example: 1. "The liberals are everywhere trying to teach our children something wrong! They're telling them men can become pregnant!" 2. "Men--by which I implicitly mean people without the parts for it--cannot become pregnant." Only the second one common and banal, unless you ask someone with a weird fetish, or perhaps a fan of Schwarzenegger and Danny Devito eager to talk about the film Junior. In contrast, the first one is not solely a medical belief, but also a claim about what others advocate, and the average American--or average HN commenter--may quite rightly judge you a weirdo for internalizing and repeating it.
    - Terr_ 6mo ago
throw0101c 6mo ago
> Republicans advocate for fiscal responsibility -- never happens. Democrats advocate for things like healthcare and cancelling student loans -- never happens. From what I've seen, Republicans don't bother trying. Democrats try and get blocked by the GOP; not sure if they can 'try harder' or find ways around the blocking. Biden certainly tried on student loans and got shot down: * https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/white-house-press-release-president-joe-biden-announces-74-billion-student-debt https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/white-house-press-... After trying to be bi-partisan with the ACA/Obamacare the Democrats just went forward with it
tempaccount5050 6mo ago
[flagged]
- aaronbrethorst 6mo ago
  [flagged]
  - toomanyrichies 6mo ago
    [flagged]
    - throwaway173738 6mo ago
      Why siphon gas when you can just steal the car?
triceratops 6mo ago
> Democrats advocate for things like healthcare and cancelling student loans -- never happens Obama got Obamacare done in the single 6-month window in this century when Democrats could pass legislation without Republicans blocking them. Biden tried to cancel student loans and was blocked in court because surprise, surprise, Republicans wouldn't allow it to go through Congress. > The Democrats held the House, Senate, and Presidency in 2021 for two years Read up on the Senate filibuster to understand why Republicans could block student loan cancellation (and anything else Democrats wanted) despite this. In theory both parties are part of the same system and complicit and corrupt. In actual practice one party is much worse than the other. By a lot. Republicans win elections by blocking anything that's good for ordinary Americans, and blaming Democrats for their lives getting worse as a result. Voters are too dumb and distracted to see the con.
- FireBeyond 6mo ago
  > Republicans win elections by blocking anything that's good for ordinary Americans This. Mitch McConnell literally was on camera, and said, quote, that Republicans would block any bill Obama or the Democrats tried to pass, even if it was good for America and Americans, because the Republican's priority was to make Obama's term ineffectual. Not to govern the country. But to actively prevent governance of the country. Even at a cost to its people. They didn't care. And they were open enough about it to say it on the record.
  - throw0101a 6mo ago
    * https://www.politico.com/story/2010/10/the-gops-no-compromise-pledge-044311 https://www.politico.com/story/2010/10/the-gops-no-compromis...
croes 6mo ago
Two Santas https://www.milwaukeeindependent.com/featured/two-santas-strategy-republicans-use-saint-nicholas-scrooge-shift-economic-messages/ https://www.milwaukeeindependent.com/featured/two-santas-str...
vouwfietsman 6mo ago
[flagged]
helterskelter 6mo ago
It's almost like we're treated as a resource to be exploited instead of the foundation of a democratic republic.
hypeatei 6mo ago
[flagged]
reducesuffering 6mo ago
"Democrats advocate for things like healthcare and cancelling student loans -- never happens." You're blaming Democrats for things they try to do and are blocked by Republicans...
- lotsofpulp 6mo ago
  They need to make themselves feel better by believing could not have made a better choice. It doesn’t matter that federal Democrats enabled the largest wealth transfer in the last 3 decades with ACA, by the smallest of margins. Or that a Democrat president increased the overtime exempt wage from $30k per year to $50k per year. Or that Biden tried to get paid parental leave and paid sick leave, but was thwarted at every turn by a Republican Congress. The important thing is for the voter to not take accountability for their actions, so “both sides”. I write this not as a “Democrat” (I despise them on the state and local level), just as someone who has seen Republicans literally only pass tax cuts and reduce women’s access to healthcare in the last 3 decades. Oh, and try to overturn an election and then pardon traitors.
  - buellerbueller 6mo ago
    And steal a SCOTUS nomination opportunity.
- reactordev 6mo ago
  You can not have a for-profit system and a government subsidized one. It needs to either be single payor, or a free-for-all. Anytime you have two markets, one will dominate the other. In our case, the subsidized market was forced to pay to play.
  - fredophile 6mo ago
    > You can not have a for-profit system and a government subsidized one Have you told Australia? They seem to think they've been able to do this for a while now.
- AngryData 6mo ago
wat10000 6mo ago
I'm not a big fan of Democrats, but at least they're somewhat trying. Obamacare should have at least had a public option, but they got a big thing done there. Student loan cancellation was done poorly but it was attempted. And each of the last three (at least) Democratic administrations have reduced the deficit, so they've got the fiscal responsibility thing going as well. Keep in mind that the Senate de facto requires 60 votes to pass almost anything these days. In this millennium, Democrats held enough seats to overcome that for about two months, and there was no margin at all. Hence the lack of a public option: Joe Lieberman didn't want it, and without him the whole thing didn't pass.
msie 6mo ago
No, both sides are not equal. Biden tried to cancel student loans.
mindslight 6mo ago
As a libertarian I strongly agree with this in isolation. But your follow up comment (now flagged) is chock full of the standard Republican social media dementia, so this original comment is actually yet another instance of lofty ideals being dishonestly abused to run cover for something even worse. For all of the actual criticisms that can be levied at them, Democrats aren't the ones throwing our institutions onto the scrap heap, alienating our allies, or cheering on autocracy.
jasonlotito 6mo ago
> Democrats advocate for things like healthcare and cancelling student loans -- never happens. That's a lie. > Republicans advocate for fiscal responsibility -- never happens. Happened under a Democrat. > As a former staunch Republican, if there's one thing I've learned, it's that both parties have sold us out. Ahhh, it makes sense now.
reactordev 6mo ago
This. Same team, different jerseys.
tootie 6mo ago
Biden forgave student loans and conservative SCOTUS stopped him. Dems passed ACA and expanded Medicaid and CHIP. Republicans cut them both. I could go on but I'm sure you know all this. Dems aren't perfect. Nobody ever is and it's unreasonable to expect that. They have pushed legitimate progress. Republicans almost exclusively cause harm to protect the upper class. Retreating into cynicism is just a way to absolve yourself of any civic responsibility.
bdangubic 6mo ago
> Republicans advocate for fiscal responsibility The “advocate” only during election cycle and then add more debt and spend more than 10 Democratic Parties combined. Democrats are not great either but they try to push through what they preach
fredophile 6mo ago
> Democrats advocate for things like healthcare and cancelling student loans -- never happens Democrats passed the ACA under Obama. Republicans have been trying to get it repealed with only moderate success ever since. Biden announced student loan forgiveness in 2023. The Supreme Court struck it down in 2023. Democrats have been able to get done at least some of the things they said they would.
tclancy 6mo ago
I am trying to assume good intent, but this is like a template for when they say "Foreign actors are being paid to sew discord". They always open with "I used to be a big believer in X" about a binary situation but rather than explaining the reason they now believe in Y they return some vague nihilistic viewpoint. Nuts to that. The Democratic Party in the US sucks like an Electrolux and I will still happily vote for them because we are, for better or worse, in a two party system and it's what we've got. Saying it's all the same is misguided at best, a knowing lie at worst.
deleted 6mo ago
[deleted]