26 ms·

Why aren't we all using Japanese toilets?

402 points by rohin 14y ago

yason 14y ago
It sounds like way too hi-tech. I guess people around the world are pretty much happy to get the job done one way or another. I know that there are people who wipe and people who wash. Then some others who do things I probably don't know how to imagine. If you're not keen on using a piece of paper to smudge your shit into your anus more permanently than necessary, then there are always bidet showers (without the bidet sink, it's just an extra shower with a smaller outlet). Wikipedia says "Its [bidet shower] use is very common in Finland, romance speaking countries, arab countries and other countries of muslim background." So, the dry and wet options are already covered to most countries' likings and the spraying toilet seat doesn't effectively offer any groundbreaking improvements in the appropriate department.
- akamel 14y ago
  indeed the 'showers' separate handle beside the toilet, or the cheaper seat based options are very popular among Muslims in general as using water for cleaning after bathroom is seen as a religious requirement. ex from amazon: http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=muslim+shower&tag=googhydr-20 http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=muslim+shower&...
MrFoof 14y ago
The US is a notoriously price-sensitive market. For a lot of folks, they wouldn't consider paying $1000+ for a toilet when the most basic American Standard can be found for about $125. A lot of people would find it hard to justify an order of magnitude price increase. I know Boston has a Toto showroom in its North End, but I really cant consider it due to the rules of my apartment building.
- jadc 14y ago
  According to the article, there are devices that could be attached to existing toilet seats that cost 100$ or less. If they do work well (article claims that they have good reviews), then cost is not an issue.
  - runjake 14y ago
    If you read the full article, only the cheapo, probably ineffective solutions cost $100, you're looking more at $500 and up for a good unit. And if you want a warmer, you'll need a GFCI outlet installed next to the toilet, which most US homes do not have. You'll want a warmer in many areas of the US during the winter. So you're looking at quite a bit of cash there. Edit: Please read what I wrote. I'm not saying most US homes do not have a GFCI outlet, period. I'm saying most US homes do not have a GFCI outlet next to the toilet. Think about what you're saying before commenting. Are you going to permanently run an extension cord from the toilet over to the GFCI near the sink?
    - eropple 14y ago
      Most? Maybe it's just because I live in the Northeast, but I've only very rarely seen a bathroom that did not have a GFCI outlet. (My current apartment has four: two in the bathroom, two in the kitchen.)
      - ceejayoz 14y ago
        That, plus they cost about $10 and can be self-installed.
      - adestefan 14y ago
        And most of them are usually not near a toilet. While the parts are cheap, it's not a trivial matter to install an outlet where one hasn't been planned in a finished room.
        eropple 14y ago
        I don't think I agree with that. Every home I've lived in has had a GFCI outlet within four feet. (Usually on the side of the sink, next to the mirror. Also usually adjacent to the toilet.)
    - tadfisher 14y ago
      It's part of the international, federal, and most state building codes to have GFCI in all bathrooms and kitchens (any place where there is a water fixture). You're right though that most homes do not have an outlet near the toilet.
- tomjen3 14y ago
  How long does a toilet last? Ten years? Then we are talking less than the cost of your internet connection (and we won't mention the cost of food, which is way more than that).
  - cowsaysoink 14y ago
    Well I don't think people spend enough time on the toilet to justify an extra cost (save maybe IBS and toilet readers/surfers). And right now toilets are fully functional for most people, mine aren't uncomfortable to me and are easy to clean and most repairs can be done quite easily yourself. Adding technology to that sounds like trouble and would likely require calling out a plumber to fix things.
    - hudibras 14y ago
      Ten minutes a day on the toilet is 60 hours each year. Over 80 years, that's 200 days of your life.
  - mbreese 14y ago
    But we focus more on the up-front costs rather than the cumulative costs. Think about the cell phone market - how many people will be happy to get a free phone, only to be subject to $50-100 monthly bill for 2 years.
  - jemka 14y ago
    >Then we are talking less than the cost of your internet connection Not if you consider the time value of money, which you should do when making any cost comparison.
  - MrFoof 14y ago
    Hey now, I'd have a Toto toilet if my apartment would let me install one. Problem is, they won't, because they don't want to deal with it when I move out.
  - joezydeco 14y ago
    The tank and bowl itself will last 30-40 years no problem. There are no moving parts to the porcelain. The valves and seals may need replacing, and the bowl should be kept clean to avoid staining, but I've never heard of someone replacing the entire unit every 10 years.
- jws 14y ago
  I bought a crazy expensive Toto when rebuilding the master bathroom because it was advertised to be quiet. Flushing sounded like you were using depth charges. A stream of plumbers, contractors, and sales reps came to look at the installation and eventually decided Toto must have changed something in that model, and swapped it for a mere mortal toilet that won't wake the entire household at night. Maybe their brand hasn't earned enough credibility to command the prices.
dsr_ 14y ago
If you sit too much and you've got hemorrhoids.... get one. Now.
- gnosis 14y ago
  Better advice might be to move around more and get more fiber in your diet. Better yet, see a doctor!
  - stcredzero 14y ago
    Metamucil is great, and without drawbacks in small doses with enough water. I will testify that it can solve such problems as discussed above for programmers. Plus, the extra fiber gives you guts of steel, which can gracefully deal with almost any rich food.
- davidandgoliath 14y ago
  And try 'squatting' when going to the bathroom. Google :)
swampthing 14y ago
I might in the paranoid minority on this, but here are some concerns I have: * How does the toilet know that everything is clean? With toilet paper, you can just wipe with new toilet paper until there is no more residue. * What is the algorithm for the toilet's spraying? Does it end up spreading diluted feces around, or is it careful to spray outward-in? * What happens if feces end up on the nozzle? Is there some kind of auto-cleaning mechanism? Otherwise it might end up spraying old feces back to me.
- ry0ohki 14y ago
  They explain it at least the first part, saying most people still use a little toilet paper for drying (and presumably checking)
  - swampthing 14y ago
    Ah, missed that - thanks.
- radley 14y ago
  - It's like washing your hands vs. wiping them off with a paper towel. You should wipe clean first, then you water clean. - The sprayer is manually controlled: when you're done using and flushing, then you wash & dry. It doesn't just stick out the whole time.
  - throwaway1979 14y ago
    When I was a child (living in an Asia), we had a separate toilet and a bidet (side by side). The awkward part was moving between the two. Even with that separation, accidents can happen (i.e. feces in the bidet). I wonder if the single Japanese toilet is superior to two separate seats (toilet + bidet) in regards to hygiene.
    - hazov 14y ago
      Oh man I feel your pain. My family had one of those here in Brazil and I hated when this happened. Anyway I do not live in the house I was raised anymore and now every modern apartment in Brazil only have a toilet, this is sad for me.
patio11 14y ago
Toto's primary sales channel is "If you build a house or office in Japan and don't specifically talk to your architect/contractor about your post-bowel movement preferences we will take the liberty of using the most current model Toto has available and then invoice you cost plus labor plus 50%." Toto does not have that relationship with the person responsible for picking your toilet. Why does Toto have that relationship with the guy who picked my toilet? They've got a sales rep in Ogaki. His most important job is making sure they know of every business start for a construction company and that every time it happens the company gets a wreath (that's considered auspicious and is socially mandatory to buy when someone close to you starts a shop) and the principals get invited out drinking. Toto is, naturally, buying. The sales guy will not be so gauche as to mention "Say, apropos of nothing, do you do cost-plus projects? We have a proposition for you which will put $100 extra in your pocket for every bathroom you build."
- arrrg 14y ago
  People don’t pick the toilets in their houses? I find that hard to imagine. People not picking the pipes or bricks that are used I can see, but the toilet? No way. Before I buy a toilet I want to at least sit on it and I cannot imagine anyone feeling any other way about that.
  - shabble 14y ago
    The situation for new builds / speculative construction which are then placed on the market, versus 'having a house built to your specifications', might be some of the difference. Or you (that is, not you or I, but "people") might select a "style" of bathroom or use a particular interior designer whom you trust to make appropriate decisions. If you're not getting an incredibly detailed itemised bill, you might find it tough to spot ~1K extra in 'bathroom furniture and installations'
  - lambda 14y ago
    How many people build their own house, as opposed to buying one from a previous owner or a developer? Also, remember that not everyone owns their own house. Many people rent apartments or houses from other people, or live with families. Between all of those factors, I would say a very small percentage of toilets in this country were picked out by the person using them.
aptimpropriety 14y ago
Every one of these articles gets the pitch of these toilets completely wrong - for every person, and in every scenario, these are not universally better. Consider the following experiment: Smear some mud on your arm. Now, using a jet stream the power of a squirt gun and very low precision, wash it all off in 10 seconds. Not so easy. Then - imagine if you put mud on a place with hair! Not only will it not be clean without some actual washing, we haven't even gotten to the drying part yet. Fact of the matter is, these do not replace toilet paper. I thought they were OK (Google) until I decided to use toilet paper after - and I was shocked and disappointed. My routine simply got longer and more complex, with a small value add of washing with water instead of dry paper. Sorry about the grim detail - I think the 'squeamish about bathroom routine' point of the article is right - just in the wrong way!
- radley 14y ago
  You're thinking either/or instead of "finishing the job". When you dive into a mud pit, do you wipe yourself off with paper towels until you're done, or do you use a bit of soap & water?
  - runjake 14y ago
    I think you completely missed his point.
    - masukomi 14y ago
      I can confirm @aptimpropriety's claim after having tested this in bidets in multiple countries. It doesn't matter how high you turn on the water pressure, if you grab a piece of toilet paper afterwards it seems to always find some... remainders.
      - radley 14y ago
        Use the paper first. Then some soap & water.
lux 14y ago
Do these improve upon the ergonomics of the common toilet? I'm thinking of the comparison between sitting and squatting positions.
- axusgrad 14y ago
  Heated seats. Finding a plumber I trust seems like a problem some startup has solved. There's never enough time to follow this up, I've been intending to upgrade for over a year.
  - seanmcdirmid 14y ago
    Heated toilet seats are essential in Japan where many houses lack very good indoor heating. The best for me was heated train seats, but we've ventured away from toilets.
  - lux 14y ago
    I'm thinking something more like this: http://ergonomenon.com/ergonomics-articles/the-ergonomics-of-the-toilet/ http://ergonomenon.com/ergonomics-articles/the-ergonomics-of...
traughber 14y ago
Another place in San Francisco that has Japanese toilets? Our company, GREE International. And we're hiring :) http://gree-corp.com/jobs http://gree-corp.com/jobs
- tomjen3 14y ago
  Now to get a visa.
radley 14y ago
Hotel Kabuki in Japantown has them of course...
- wahnfrieden 14y ago
  Most Japanese restaurants in NYC as well.
- suyash 14y ago
  Oh, the one in Japantown on Geary St. in SF, I need to stay there sometime
eob 14y ago
Americans, by and large, are quite bizarre when it comes to discussing anything that takes place below the belt. When I mentioned working at Google, I have had multiple people say to me, "I heard the founders at Google are OBSESSED with toilets and import special models from Japan." As if one has to be stark raving mad to use a modern toilet from Japan, instead of the old fashioned toilet which was probably imported from China anyway.
- FrojoS 14y ago
  While I agree that Americans are especially prude, its not like these toilets are noticeable more common in Europe. Of course the French have their bidet...
  - GuiA 14y ago
    >Of course the French have their bidet... I'm French- there's a bidet at my grandparents' house which is never used, and there used to be one at my parents' house but they removed it when they remodeled the bathroom because they never used it (it was there when they bought the house). I've only ever used a bidet to wash my feet (or as kids, we would put our swimsuits in it to dry). I'm not even sure what its original purpose is.
    - StavrosK 14y ago
      It's for washing your nether regions.
    - forgottenpaswrd 14y ago
      Spanish here. I agree, we use the bidets basically for washing our feet too. The original purpose was for women and their period... those kind of things on a time in witch using large quantities of water inside the building(for shower) was not that common(shower needs high water pressure too).
    - nvmc 14y ago
      The original purpose is to squirt water at your anus to loosen any left over faecal matter.
xutopia 14y ago
I live in Canada and if that water isn't heated before coming in contact with my hiney I can assure you that it'll be too cold for comfort at least in the winter.
- bryanlarsen 14y ago
  It doesn't make much difference whether it's winter or summer. The water temperature isn't below zero or it would be ice. If the water source doesn't go below zero when the air temperature is -30, it's not going to get much warmer when the air temperature is +30.
- w1ntermute 14y ago
  Heated water is an option.
- gutnor 14y ago
  I'm just back from holiday in Japan. All the toilets I used had heated (tepid) water. To me that's what made the difference between pleasant and what could have been awful.
bagosm 14y ago
I cant believe how overenthusiastic this article is. From one of the reviews it quotes: “Going to the bathroom has become an enjoyable experience.” Other than they might as well be good, they are certainly a novelty unless you have very specific reasons to get one. Also another thing to fear is cameras and wifi, it's japanese after all! Somebody is pushin some high-tech loos! I'd rather know how to use the three seashell system...
- nikatwork 14y ago
  Try one before passing judgement. Seriously, try one. It's a quasi-religious experience.
me2i81 14y ago
I suppose with all this discussion of efficiency of cleansing it might be indelicate to point out that some people enjoy having warm water shot up their ass, and women enjoy the "front wash" feature also.
shakoosh99 14y ago
They are sold in the U.S http://www.pilotbidet.com/ http://www.pilotbidet.com/
ComputerGuru 14y ago
$15 in parts from your local hardware store gets you the basic tools you need to build a water-powered hygiene system. All you need is the "spray head" with flexible hose [0], plus the adaptor to make a kitchen part fit the bathroom piping (for some reason, kitchen and bathroom have non-interchangeable parts). You hang it on a hook next to the toilet, and you use it to clean yourself. I cannot live without these, and I intensely regret any overnight trips to a hotel or other place that does not have such an amenity. I regularly recommend and sometimes even buy and install these for friends and family. The USA is still living in the dark ages when it comes to some parts of self-hygiene. 0: http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21PJ48yqYmL._SL500_AA300_.jpg http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21PJ48yqYmL._SL500_AA3...
- seanmcdirmid 14y ago
  This is how they do it in Thailand, at least. Basically, imagine the sprayer in your kitchen sink attached to your toilet. In areas without (edit: running) water, they'll have a bucket of clean water nearby with some sort of cup to use. I've heard this is pretty common in SE Asia.
  - simontzu 14y ago
    Yup! And people eat with their hands a lot too. This is why its considered disgusting to eat with the left hand in many places. Right hand for eating, left hand for washing your ass. One of the benefits of having travelled a lot in Asia is you will never again be phased by running out of toilet paper.
    - seanmcdirmid 14y ago
      People in SE Asia don't eat with their hands, you must be thinking about Central/South Asia. Spray cleaning really isn't that bad, you should be washing your hands after anyways.
      - jinushaun 14y ago
        No, we (Thai, Laos, and Cambodian) do eat with our hands. Chopsticks were a cultural import from the Chinese.
antirez 14y ago
How the wonderful Japanese gardens, their sensibility for design, beauty, simplicity, and this awful toilets can convive in the same culture, is a mystery to me.
mcormier 14y ago
"These exquisite toilets are everywhere in Japan" Really? I was there for 5 days last spring and never encountered one of these toilets. I did, however, encounter a hole in the ground, you gotta squat to do a number two public toilet stall.
- Osmium 14y ago
  I've been to both Sapporo and Tokyo, and I can assure you there're everywhere. Certainly everywhere I went. I did see squat toilets too though; some places had both.
- Kiro 14y ago
  It's like saying you never encountered a "normal" toilet while visiting Europe. That's how common these are in Japan.
jnar 14y ago
I mean, seriously. Forget about hyper-tech stuff and get a normal bidet and learn how to wash your ass properly. That's pretty much all you need to improve your life and it will cost way less than 500$.
benihana 14y ago
Because I have no control over which toilets the apartment complex I'm living in chooses.
miahi 14y ago
I think it's just because the Japanese are really obsessed with cleanliness and others are not.
- moheeb 14y ago
  I have a shower next to my toilet. Take that, Japanese people!!
  - miahi 14y ago
    Do you also have an antibacterial pencil or notebook? Did you buy your car because it has an antibacterial steering wheel? http://articles.latimes.com/1996-11-21/news/mn-1397_1_cleaning-hygiene-antibacterial http://articles.latimes.com/1996-11-21/news/mn-1397_1_cleani...
- spqr 14y ago
  Yeah I don't think so, buddy. I won't be shooting a stream of water onto my asshole that originates from a nozzle that spends 24x7 inside a toilet. Who the hell knows who pissed, shit or bled onto that nozzle before it's spraying its bacterial frappe up my poopshoot? No thank you.
ww520 14y ago
It's too expensive. $1000 vs a typical $100 toilet. Cleaning this thing is an extra hassle. The psychological aversion of having some liquid spraying FROM the toilet adds to the lack of interest.
mattmoss 14y ago
http://youtu.be/F9cdyd0nU9w http://youtu.be/F9cdyd0nU9w
cerebrum 14y ago
I thought this would be about the benefits of the squat toilet.
- schiffern 14y ago
  Yep, me too. Given how much time it saves, I'm surprised more life hackers don't get into it. http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2010/08/dont_just_sit_there.single.html http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/201...
acomjean 14y ago
I have a TOTO (cambridge ma), but it has none of the fancy features. It did come with a sticker on the seat for www.cleanishappy.com/ which sells the super toilet seat ad ons. The toliet works well and uses very little water. It doesn't spin flush but instead uses a wave of water when flushing.
- usefulcat 14y ago
  We got one of these for each bathroom because they are virtually uncloggable. They may not render toilet paper obsolete, but they do very nearly render the plunger obsolete.
w1ntermute 14y ago
A funny related article: Odor-eliminating pants are hot seller in Japan; Undergarments disguise smell of flatulence, body odor: http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/health/odor-eliminating-pants-hot-seller-japan-article-1.1201110 http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/health/odor-eliminatin...
muraiki 14y ago
At first I thought this article would be about squat toilets (which I did also encounter in Greece). While it's true that a squat toilet means that you don't have to sit on something that other people have sat on, it also leaves a lot of room for, how shall I put it... error? I encountered some pretty bad public restrooms in Japan... When I lived in Japan for a few months, I think I only ever came across one or two bidet toilets. Frankly, I was too afraid to try it. I kept wondering what would happen if the mechanism malfunctioned or missed or something. Typical geek worries, I guess!
mirkules 14y ago
While I find bidet toilets incredibly useful, I don't understand why this is such a sudden revelation. The French invented these toilets in the 18th century: they were/are in wide use in Europe, middle east, and I've even encountered a few in Canadian hotels (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bidet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bidet). Is there something fundamentally different about Japanese bidets (other than integration into the toilet itself)?
- beatgammit 14y ago
  I think the main difference is that the Japanese toilet is paperless. From the wikipedia page: > In 1980 the first "paperless toilet" was launched in Japan, a combination toilet and bidet which also dries the user after washing. The bidet often required something separate to dry after cleaning, so the difference seems to be integration with the toilet plus the dryer (heated seat optional). On another note, on a recent trip to Korea, I noticed that many homes had these toilets (mentioned on wikipedia article). The article seems to imply that they are unique to Japan, when they're actually popular almost everywhere outside of the US.
  - henrikschroder 14y ago
    Eh, they're not popular in Europe either.
Osmium 14y ago
How does one go about cleaning these? It always seemed to me that, if the nozzle got dirty, then they could cause more problems than they solve. Especially (to quote the article) if it's spraying the "female genital area." If there's any bacteria on that nozzle, and since it's been in a toilet for any number of years I'd guess there might be, surely there'd be a risk of it causing UTIs and the like?
- Pinatubo 14y ago
  A friend of mine has one of these toilets, and the first thing I did before sitting down was look at the nozzle. It was covered in tiny bits of feces. I stuck with the toilet paper.
  - glanch 14y ago
    So, we're done here.
- duaneb 14y ago
  IIRC some of them have self-cleaning mechanisms. Anyway, I would imagine I would still want to clean once a week with the rest of the toilet.
- studio35 14y ago
  Ever since I tried a Toto in Japan, I've become fascinated with these bidet seats, and have since become an expert on them, after building my own bidet seat review blog and bidet seat store to resell Brondell products (which are among the top brands). I've learned that most of the top end bidet seats have complex nozzle retraction and sanitization systems. The Brondell Swash 1000 we sell has stainless steel nozzles treated with "silver oxide nano particles" that resist bacteria, and most models have systems that rinse the nozzle before and after each use. The nozzles typically retract when not in use so that they're not in the line of fire of human waste.
stcredzero 14y ago
I'm sure it's because Americans have funny attitudes. Programmers, who spend lots of time sitting, should see this as a way of increasing comfort during work time. For the same reason and others (prevalence of pizza at meet ups) programmers should consider modest amounts of fiber supplements like Metamucil. (Not like a conventional laxative at all, and it enables your GI tract to handle just about anything you throw at it gracefully, so long as you get enough water.)
- lotso 14y ago
  Metamucil is definitely my favorite lifehack. Not to be crude, but having no-wipe number 2s is amazing.
ErrantX 14y ago
Also, economics. These toilets currently cost ~$500 more than a "normal" toilet. Of course, you do use significantly more toilet paper with the latter, but a pack is ~$5 and lasts ~ 1 month, so you'd still be looking at, what 8-10 year return on investment.
- crusso 14y ago
  but a pack is ~$5 and lasts ~ 1 month Ah, I remember my bachelor days too.
  - ErrantX 14y ago
    Multibuy is your friend! I sat down and worked out our real toilet roll cost and it is lower than $5/mo
  - infinii 14y ago
    Lol, he obviously doesn't have a woman in the house.
- brc 14y ago
  You are obviously a bachelor.
  - ErrantX 14y ago
    Nope! I live with my girlfriend :) You lot seem to be spending a lot on toilet paper!!
jbverschoor 14y ago
I can't imagine these responses over here.. I've been to japan 3 times, and everytime I wish I would have one of these things here.
base698 14y ago
In a humid/muggy environment I didn't know how I lived without Japanese toilets. I secretly wished we'd lost WW2 after I visited Tokyo the first time :)
ma2xd 14y ago
How do you know when you are clean and it's safe to pull up your pants? Does it have a mirror or something?
majormajor 14y ago
The US population seems rather stubborn regarding toilet habits. This is anecdotal, but I knew a guy who interned about a decade ago with a company that produces a lot of toilet paper here in the US. He told me that they had internally developed forms of "wet" toilet paper that were pretty much superior to the dry kind in every way (think of the difference in trying to clean off your hands with a dry paper towel and a wet wipe of some kind), and IIRC they thought they could produce them in a way that wouldn't cause a substantial price hike, but whenever they did tests consumers almost universally hated the feeling, and regardless of how much better/easier they cleaned, they basically refused to consider them. Which is a shame, since dry paper really isn't the best cleaning tool...
- anonymous 14y ago
  Bizarre. I always first wipe with some wet toilet paper and then use dry for the finish.
- smackfu 14y ago
  One obvious problem: room temperature wet things are kind of cold when you put them down there.
Aloisius 14y ago
The only reason I do not have one is that I don't have a power plug near my toilet. It has been my experience that women, once they try them, especially love bidets with built in dryers. The marketing could be better. Education comes first. If non-bidet toilets were contrasted as crude, unhygienic and downright barbaric, I think we'd see a lot more demand for them and bidet makers should be offering them free to restaurants and clothing stores to place in women's bathrooms. But for me, the problem still comes back to power.
makmanalp 14y ago
The odd thing is, in Turkey we universally have a nozzle on the back of the toilet that just is a stream of water that falls in an arc forwards. You control it from a tap on the side, on the wall. You turn on the stream and then angle yourself onto it, or wet your toilet paper a bit when wiping. Way less toilet paper (just to wipe&dry at the end), cleans way faster, your bum is not itchy, and it costs nothing. The toilet bowls come with this. I hate American toilets. This can't just be a Turkish quirk, right?
- GFischer 14y ago
  Nope. Reading the comments, anywhere BUT the United States you can get some form of water cleaning - Southern Europeans and South Americans have Bidets - Northern Europeans have Bidet Showers (well, Germans have the shelf thing) - Asians have these toilets (saw posts claiming about Korea, India and Japan) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bidet http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bidet http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bidet_shower http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bidet_shower
mberning 14y ago
Try using a toilet in Germany. Without being too crass, you deposit your excrement onto a dry shelf, whereupon it may be inspected, or not, and then a rush of water slides it off the shelf to its destination.
- iso-8859-1 14y ago
  http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toilette#Porzellanstandardbecken http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toilette#Porzellanstandardbecke...
- LVB 14y ago
  Thanks. Up until 10 seconds ago, my memories of those had been nearly completely purged.
- kghose 14y ago
  1. Uses less water 2. No splash back
  - daralthus 14y ago
    Also it is designed to facilitate stool examination, as it was invented when huge dysentery epidemics spread through Europe.
  - smackfu 14y ago
    3. Smells worse.
    - kalleboo 14y ago
      This cannot be understated. They smell really bad. Have a friend who lived in Prague and his bathroom wasn't ventilated and he had a german shelf-toilet. Day after a big drinking session, it was unusable since the room smelt so bad.
  - scotty79 14y ago
    Double plus for no splashback. I don't get how people can suffer through this. I hate so much being splashed by dirty toilet water. And this happens like 50% of times for me while using non-german style toilet.
paulsutter 14y ago
Touch-free and heated are the main advantages of Japanese toilets. The seat raises as you approach, lowers automatically, and the toilet flushes when you stand up. I returned yesterday from a two-month trip to Japan, and now the toilets here seem primitive, unclean, and cold. Why touch a toilet seat or handle with your hand?
marknutter 14y ago
Flushable wet wipes changed my bathroom life. I now don't even consider doing my business without them. Way cheaper than installing a bidet, and I would argue it's more effective, too.
- ars 14y ago
  BTW There is no such thing as a flushable wet wipe. They claim you can flush them, but they actually clog pipes frequently, and don't disintegrate like they should. http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/video-hub/home--garden/bed--bath/flushable-wipes/16935265001/22783507001/ http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/video-hub/home--garden/be...
- bitsoda 14y ago
  A bidet attachment is less than $50. It's also a one-time cost. Having to purchase wet wipes will eventually cost you more. Also, you're still just smearing poop allover your bum with a wipe. The bidet's jet of water effectively blasts your area clean. Think about it like this: if you cook a spaghetti dinner with meatballs and tomato sauce, would you wet wipe the plates and put them back in the cupboard? Of course not, you'd give the dishes a proper rinsing under a stream of water. I will never understand the aversion to bidets. Anything less is uncivilized, and quite frankly, disgusting.
jiggy2011 14y ago
I imagine it's to do with price, at least for public toilets. Here in the UK , we can't have nice things because someone will just take the liberty of smashing it to pieces for you. For what I have heard about places like Tokyo; you have vending machines for just about all of your needs, fancy toilets and video game arcades have actual chairs to sit on while you play the machines. None of these things would last 5 minutes in the UK.
saurabhambry 14y ago
Its not just Japan. These toilets are what you find in most middle class homes in India too!
captainchaos 14y ago
These toilets are a pleasure to use. But I think the main reason many people don't consider them is that you need a nearby electrical socket or have a big dumb cable on your bathroom floor. The article quotes $500 to have a GFCI socket installed but that in unrealistically low in some parts of the country. > $1000 is a decent investment, especially if you consider your bunghole reasonably clean today.
hnriot 14y ago
I wouldn't want a bidet like contraption, it's just massive overkill for something that humans have turned into a big deal. People seemed to manage for hundreds of centuries just fine without computerized toilets. Utterly ridiculous and a good example of the first world having gone crazy. These are just extortion, taking advantage of a cultural "issue" in a first world country like Japan. I can't believe hn are even discussing this.
- teejaygreen 14y ago
  I wouldn't want a car like contraption, it's just massive overkill for something that humans have turned into a big deal. People seemed to manage for hundreds of centuries just fine without motorized horses. Utterly ridiculous and a good example of the first world having gone crazy. These are just extortion, taking advantage of a cultural "issue" in a first world country like America. I can't believe hn are even discussing this.
  - hnriot 14y ago
    motorized transportation is clearly an advantage, having water squirted up your arse is, at best fetishistic, and at worst just a total waste of time/electricity. If you can't see the difference then go right ahead and keep discussing this nonsense. Funny how the rest of the animal kingdom seems to have managed. Funny how nobody but the Japanese want these? Ever ask why the same nation that needs soiled panty dispensing vending machines also needs an electric bidet. See it for what it is, a fetish. I'm sure jonathan swift would have loved one.
    - mayanksinghal 14y ago
      Actually South Asian toilets have water cleaning as well. For the squatting ones, which are becoming less and less common, people use mugs - for western toilets, there is a flexible faucet that you can use to spray. So no. This is not a fetish. At least not one that is restricted to just Japan.
    - venus 14y ago
      You obviously have no experience with the devices in question, and your generalisations about other cultures are ignorant, at best. Cleaning yourself with water, whether it be your hands or your butt, is not a "fetish" and I cannot comprehend why you would try to paint it as such. Why are you so scared of the idea that you'll go to the extreme of trying to dismiss it as sexual deviancy? Your argument says a lot more about you than it does about the topic at hand. And for your information, used pantie vending machines in Japan is basically an urban myth. There may be some in fetishist sex shops, I'm not sure. I'm sure you can buy used panties in American fetish sex shops, too.
omnisci 14y ago
I don't use those because I prefer the 3 shells. Although I've never used one the Japanese toilets, I would be a huge fan of the heated seat portion. If I had the money, that would be a feature I'd enjoy.
gokulk 14y ago
They actually have these in Google mountain view
evolve2k 14y ago
Toilet habits form early and then are hard to change I'm thinking one idea for creating a market would be to pick a city and then subsidize the toilets to be installed in child care centers and primary schools. Get kids used to the experience and benefit from the 'yeah I remember we had them at school' affect later.
darkstar999 14y ago
What happens when the controls on these toilets wear out? Are they replaceable? The thing about toilets I am used to in the US is that the moving parts are completely replaceable.
zampano 14y ago
What I really miss from Japan are the toilets with a sink on top of the water container on the back (something like this: http://f00.inventorspot.com/images/profile-toilet.jpg http://f00.inventorspot.com/images/profile-toilet.jpg). You flush the toilet and the water refilling the container comes out of a faucet for you to wash your hands real quick and the water going down the drain fills the container up for the next flush. It seems so simple and helps save a tiny bit of water every trip to the bathroom. Now if only Japanese bathrooms started providing their own soap so I wouldn't have to bring my own everywhere...
- GFischer 14y ago
  Japanese sure are efficient with their use of space :) .
graeme 14y ago
I recently started using a squat toilet. Never has number two gone so well. Apparently it's the position we're best designed for. Provides a great hip flexor stretch too. I use a lillipad: http://www.lillipad.co.nz/ http://www.lillipad.co.nz/ It converts any normal toilet into an optional squat toilet. I don't think it would work with these warm-water jet toilets though. If you have any issues with your bowel movements (constipation, diarrhea, both), you owe it to yourself to try a squat toilet.
- mmagin 14y ago
  Here's another similar product http://www.naturesplatform.com/ http://www.naturesplatform.com/
  - graeme 14y ago
    They sent me a 'sorry, we have to much business to sell you anything' message. I suggested they raise prices to a level that would let them sell more. Never heard anything back.
- meej 14y ago
  I already posted about this upthread, but now I'll post with a link: http://www.squattypotty.com http://www.squattypotty.com
numeromancer 14y ago
This article needs a demo video.
anonymous 14y ago
1. They're much more expensive 2. You need to retrain your cleaning staff to know how to handle these. It's like entrusting them with dusting off your server rack.
michelleclsun 14y ago
The best part of these toilets is not the washing function, which in Asia frankly not a lot of people use (I lived in Hong Kong, Beijing and traveled extensively across main cities in Asia) but the heated seats. Once in a ski lodge in Niseko, Hokkaido, Japan, after a long day of snowboarding, these heated seats really save the day - Japanese perfectionism at its best.
piyush_soni 14y ago
After being in multiple countries, I can safely conclude that if you think the daily 'paper' routine can clean it properly, it can't. If you think only a water jet can clean it properly, it can't. You have to use both. My schedule is something like : Paper->Water jet->Paper and I feel perfect after this! :)
dsrguru 14y ago
Watch the washlet industry sweep across the Bay Area now.
xmstr 14y ago
I use three seashells. They're the best!
rco8786 14y ago
Because they're all in Japan!
radley 14y ago
I've been planning to install one but: 1) I rent 2) have two bathrooms: downstairs everyone uses, upstairs is mostly me. So: 1) do I take care of everyone or just myself first (i.e. upstairs or downstairs)? 2) costs are probably not as low as they claim. I'll need to have an electrician run power near to the toilet which also means ripping out part of the wall, replacing, and repainting. 3) I feel funny doing this as a tenant and I've wondered how well property company would respond to covering the installation costs. I figure it's like installing a new appliance...
jseims 14y ago
I installed two of these in my house. One of the best uses of money ever :)
john78 14y ago
As a cheaper alternative, you can try these two things: - A foot-stool to place your feet on so you are in a more natural position which seems to help with the flow of things and could reduce the amount of cleanup required. See "Going to the Bathroom 2.0" - http://youtu.be/0WQaqeC_wME http://youtu.be/0WQaqeC_wME - And flushable baby wipes. Simple but very effective.
trifilij 14y ago
I actually do use a bidet, from http://www.bluebidet.com/ http://www.bluebidet.com/ it was easy to install and keeps my ass clean
- travis29 14y ago
  Ha! I have the same one and love it!
Khurrum 14y ago
A thousand bucks to buy and install is kinda steep for minor comfort. If the company / apartment complex already does it, then its something cool, but otherwise its coming out of your paycheck and that money can buy other cool things that you might care about more.
giardini 14y ago
OK, so what do you do when the lights go out (and the power)?
nicholas73 14y ago
I know why I don't want one - the water will splash poop particles over my butt and legs, and no amount of added dryers is going to convince me that it is clean.
justinhj 14y ago
Going to the toilet is very culturally determined. Take a poo in Germany and when you stand up your poo will be waiting for you on a shelf, in case you wish to examine it (historically to identify health issues). Will that ever translate to the US? No, because it's a different culture not interested in examining their own poo. Same goes for Japan/Korea and the bum washing toilet.
jaseemabid 14y ago
We have nothing else to talk on HN other than toilets?
- olgeni 14y ago
  Node.js-based toilets?
  - jaseemabid 14y ago
    :P
ktf 14y ago
If you live in SF check out the bathrooms in the Viz/New People Cinema on Post St -- they have these fancy contraptions. Maybe catch a movie while you're there, too :)
bluedanieru 14y ago
>These toilets, known as “washlets”, have many amazing features - the most notable of which is they render toilet paper obsolete. Uh, no they don't. And if the author is using them that way, that's fucking gross. If they rendered toilet paper obsolete then Japanese bathrooms wouldn't have toilet paper, or Japanese wouldn't use it anyway, but neither statement is true. The 'feature' of Japanese toilets is that your asshole will be clean, regardless of how dire the shit you just took is. And believe me, it's a wonderful thing, but it doesn't render the paper obsolete. Pardon the pun, but this author is talking out of his ass.
tomrod 14y ago
You know, sometimes there just needs to be a match to light the fire. Supposedly (but indeterminately) Clark Gable wearing no undershirt drove undershirt sales down 75%[0] I reckon an episode Modern Family or Community where this type of toilet/bidet is a positive driver of the comedy would bring in a lot of sales for bidets. [0] http://www.snopes.com/movies/actors/gable1.asp http://www.snopes.com/movies/actors/gable1.asp
towski 14y ago
The article says that bidet attachments are 100 dollars on Amazon. I have good news everyone! Amazon has dropped those prices to 30 dollars! I bought one!
kjell 14y ago
About a year ago I installed a bidet in my bathroom. It's the one pictured towards the bottom of this article, and I bought it on amazon. I use it and "cloth toilet paper" for my butt-cleaning. It's great. The water washes me clean. Often 100% and always most of the way. It took a bit to get the hang of it: to get a good wash I find it helps to clench my butt muscles and wiggle on the seat. After 5-10 seconds, I wipe with the cloth: old t-shirts cut into ~4x8" rectangles. The water does a much better job of cleaning than toilet paper. When I first had the bidet I used toilet paper after the spray to dry off. It was only slightly less miserable than having a waterlogged ass. I needed twice as much paper to dry myself off as I would have used to wipe. For a while I hung an old microfiber towel next to the toilet and used that, but "oh, that's just my butt-towel…" is an interesting conversation to have. So I cut up some old shirts. They go into a bucket after use and I wash them regularly. The cloth is what makes it work. I can only imagine what it would be like to have a blowdryer down there.
coltonb1 14y ago
They have one of these in the Google Venture Startup Lab and I can personally testify that they are every bit as good as this article describes. Thanks GV!
davemel37 14y ago
I recall an old Dave Barry article about laws around water usage in toilets... Turns out it is super-regulated. What I found fascinating was this site claiming that,"it takes 635 gallons of water to make a hamburger, but only one to flush it." http://www.map-testing.com/ http://www.map-testing.com/
eternalban 14y ago
“Basically, we're the Apple Computers of toilets” - Toto spokesperson Clearly not true. The Apple Computer of toilets would only allow you to download via iPoop.
beefman 14y ago
I'm sure I want a plastic nozzle, mounted inside a toilet, spraying water up into my ass. I poop in the morning, wipe off the worst with toilet paper, then hop in the shower. Works great, and my shower head has the advantage of never having been splashed by someone else's pee.
btilly 14y ago
My sister has one of these. My 4 year old used it. Once. When it sprayed her, she jumped up, ran out of the room, and refused to ever touch that toilet again.
yeonhoyoon 14y ago
These toilets are pretty common in Korea as well, but it's not recommended to use bidets in public toilets, because it can easily become contaminated with excrement, germs, etc.
frozenport 14y ago
Are they calibrated to European shapes and sizes?
senthilnayagam 14y ago
Like Japan, in India people prefer water over paper for cultural reasons, we dont have bidets but use health faucets
gabchan 14y ago
The question should also be "why aren't the Chinese all using (at least) western toilets?" :P
anotherbadlogin 14y ago
So everyone's fine with having a dripping wet ass after taking a dump? And toilet paper pretty much turns to pulp the instant water touches it, so if you wipe a dripping wet ass with it, you're going to have a pulpy ass.
rsaarelm 14y ago
Don't all new bathrooms have bidet showers? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bidet_shower http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bidet_shower Huh, guess not. Those have been around in Finland at least since the late 80s, and don't have the "what's the deal with the computerized toilet seat" image problem.
S_A_P 14y ago
So not trolling here- serious question. My concern with these things is that the spray nozzle would get "dirty" and end up spraying fecal or urine tainted water at my bum. When you raise the seat does the spray nozzle raise with it? How easy is it to clean? I have 2-10 year old kids that would be using this thing so I am more concerned because they have not yet mastered good aim or toilet hygiene...
hasenj 14y ago
You don't need high tech. You just needs some pipes and a water hose; AKA: "shattaf". It's quite common in the middle east. Unfortunately these are not easy to install in houses built in a North American style, because there are no floor drains in the toilet, so if you install a "shattaf" the floor will eventually soak in water; keeping it clean and dry is very annoying and difficult. I don't understand why people in the West use toilet papers instead of washing. When I have to use toilet papers, I will also use flushable wet wipes.
taofu 14y ago
Washlets do not substitute for toilet paper. a)The toilet spray isn't sufficient to eradicate your fecal remains, unless it is adjusted to garden-hose spray levels. Painful. b)Drying your sprayed behind with a heated fan is uncomfortable.
solarbunny 14y ago
How about this swedish self cleaning toilet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5ul7prwoiM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5ul7prwoiM
jtlienwis 14y ago
And once we get passsed the bidet stage then we can go on to the urine diverting toilet. Check out the latest toilet design competition run by the Gates foundation...
- GFischer 14y ago
  Nice. I have a sketch of an urine recycling toilet - my point was to use recycled urine for the first flush cycle of feces, but I never had time nor money to make a prototype. I hope someone makes one, it should save quite a lot of water. I respect Bill Gates for working on those projects - it would be easier just to manage traditionally all that money.
cynoclast 14y ago
I do have one of these. I rent, so I didn't get a super expensive one that would require running electricity etc, but it is wonderful. Soooooo much cleaner than paper. Think about it, if you were to get shit on your hands you wouldn't just wipe it off with dry paper would you? Why do you wash your butt that way? It is completely illogical and very unsanitary. I bought one of these: http://www.amazon.com/LUXE-Bidet-Vi-110-Non-Electric-Mechanical/dp/B005IT4C6G/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1353003347&sr=1-1&keywords=bidet+toilet+seat http://www.amazon.com/LUXE-Bidet-Vi-110-Non-Electric-Mechani... $42 installed in 10 minutes with a screwdriver and wrench. I love it! I wish other bathrooms had them.
EdgarVerona 14y ago
Because I don't want to fly that far just to use the bathroom! ... joking aside, I think it's the notion of using water that might freak people out. I'm not opposed to the concept, but I would worry about its effectiveness. I mean, I feel like I'd always want toilet paper there, even if it's just a placebo for making me feel truly clean.

402 points by rohin 14y ago

yason 14y ago

It sounds like way too hi-tech. I guess people around the world are pretty much happy to get the job done one way or another. I know that there are people who wipe and people who wash. Then some others who do things I probably don't know how to imagine. If you're not keen on using a piece of paper to smudge your shit into your anus more permanently than necessary, then there are always bidet showers (without the bidet sink, it's just an extra shower with a smaller outlet). Wikipedia says "Its [bidet shower] use is very common in Finland, romance speaking countries, arab countries and other countries of muslim background." So, the dry and wet options are already covered to most countries' likings and the spraying toilet seat doesn't effectively offer any groundbreaking improvements in the appropriate department.

akamel 14y ago
indeed the 'showers' separate handle beside the toilet, or the cheaper seat based options are very popular among Muslims in general as using water for cleaning after bathroom is seen as a religious requirement. ex from amazon: http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=muslim+shower&tag=googhydr-20 http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=muslim+shower&...

MrFoof 14y ago

The US is a notoriously price-sensitive market. For a lot of folks, they wouldn't consider paying $1000+ for a toilet when the most basic American Standard can be found for about $125. A lot of people would find it hard to justify an order of magnitude price increase. I know Boston has a Toto showroom in its North End, but I really cant consider it due to the rules of my apartment building.

jadc 14y ago
According to the article, there are devices that could be attached to existing toilet seats that cost 100$ or less. If they do work well (article claims that they have good reviews), then cost is not an issue.
- runjake 14y ago
  If you read the full article, only the cheapo, probably ineffective solutions cost $100, you're looking more at $500 and up for a good unit. And if you want a warmer, you'll need a GFCI outlet installed next to the toilet, which most US homes do not have. You'll want a warmer in many areas of the US during the winter. So you're looking at quite a bit of cash there. Edit: Please read what I wrote. I'm not saying most US homes do not have a GFCI outlet, period. I'm saying most US homes do not have a GFCI outlet next to the toilet. Think about what you're saying before commenting. Are you going to permanently run an extension cord from the toilet over to the GFCI near the sink?
  - eropple 14y ago
    Most? Maybe it's just because I live in the Northeast, but I've only very rarely seen a bathroom that did not have a GFCI outlet. (My current apartment has four: two in the bathroom, two in the kitchen.)
    - ceejayoz 14y ago
      That, plus they cost about $10 and can be self-installed.
    - adestefan 14y ago
      And most of them are usually not near a toilet. While the parts are cheap, it's not a trivial matter to install an outlet where one hasn't been planned in a finished room.
      - eropple 14y ago
        I don't think I agree with that. Every home I've lived in has had a GFCI outlet within four feet. (Usually on the side of the sink, next to the mirror. Also usually adjacent to the toilet.)
  - tadfisher 14y ago
    It's part of the international, federal, and most state building codes to have GFCI in all bathrooms and kitchens (any place where there is a water fixture). You're right though that most homes do not have an outlet near the toilet.
tomjen3 14y ago
How long does a toilet last? Ten years? Then we are talking less than the cost of your internet connection (and we won't mention the cost of food, which is way more than that).
- cowsaysoink 14y ago
  Well I don't think people spend enough time on the toilet to justify an extra cost (save maybe IBS and toilet readers/surfers). And right now toilets are fully functional for most people, mine aren't uncomfortable to me and are easy to clean and most repairs can be done quite easily yourself. Adding technology to that sounds like trouble and would likely require calling out a plumber to fix things.
  - hudibras 14y ago
    Ten minutes a day on the toilet is 60 hours each year. Over 80 years, that's 200 days of your life.
- mbreese 14y ago
  But we focus more on the up-front costs rather than the cumulative costs. Think about the cell phone market - how many people will be happy to get a free phone, only to be subject to $50-100 monthly bill for 2 years.
- jemka 14y ago
  >Then we are talking less than the cost of your internet connection Not if you consider the time value of money, which you should do when making any cost comparison.
- MrFoof 14y ago
  Hey now, I'd have a Toto toilet if my apartment would let me install one. Problem is, they won't, because they don't want to deal with it when I move out.
- joezydeco 14y ago
  The tank and bowl itself will last 30-40 years no problem. There are no moving parts to the porcelain. The valves and seals may need replacing, and the bowl should be kept clean to avoid staining, but I've never heard of someone replacing the entire unit every 10 years.
jws 14y ago
I bought a crazy expensive Toto when rebuilding the master bathroom because it was advertised to be quiet. Flushing sounded like you were using depth charges. A stream of plumbers, contractors, and sales reps came to look at the installation and eventually decided Toto must have changed something in that model, and swapped it for a mere mortal toilet that won't wake the entire household at night. Maybe their brand hasn't earned enough credibility to command the prices.

dsr_ 14y ago

If you sit too much and you've got hemorrhoids.... get one. Now.

gnosis 14y ago
Better advice might be to move around more and get more fiber in your diet. Better yet, see a doctor!
- stcredzero 14y ago
  Metamucil is great, and without drawbacks in small doses with enough water. I will testify that it can solve such problems as discussed above for programmers. Plus, the extra fiber gives you guts of steel, which can gracefully deal with almost any rich food.
davidandgoliath 14y ago
And try 'squatting' when going to the bathroom. Google :)

swampthing 14y ago

I might in the paranoid minority on this, but here are some concerns I have: * How does the toilet know that everything is clean? With toilet paper, you can just wipe with new toilet paper until there is no more residue. * What is the algorithm for the toilet's spraying? Does it end up spreading diluted feces around, or is it careful to spray outward-in? * What happens if feces end up on the nozzle? Is there some kind of auto-cleaning mechanism? Otherwise it might end up spraying old feces back to me.

ry0ohki 14y ago
They explain it at least the first part, saying most people still use a little toilet paper for drying (and presumably checking)
- swampthing 14y ago
  Ah, missed that - thanks.
radley 14y ago
- It's like washing your hands vs. wiping them off with a paper towel. You should wipe clean first, then you water clean. - The sprayer is manually controlled: when you're done using and flushing, then you wash & dry. It doesn't just stick out the whole time.
- throwaway1979 14y ago
  When I was a child (living in an Asia), we had a separate toilet and a bidet (side by side). The awkward part was moving between the two. Even with that separation, accidents can happen (i.e. feces in the bidet). I wonder if the single Japanese toilet is superior to two separate seats (toilet + bidet) in regards to hygiene.
  - hazov 14y ago
    Oh man I feel your pain. My family had one of those here in Brazil and I hated when this happened. Anyway I do not live in the house I was raised anymore and now every modern apartment in Brazil only have a toilet, this is sad for me.

patio11 14y ago

Toto's primary sales channel is "If you build a house or office in Japan and don't specifically talk to your architect/contractor about your post-bowel movement preferences we will take the liberty of using the most current model Toto has available and then invoice you cost plus labor plus 50%." Toto does not have that relationship with the person responsible for picking your toilet. Why does Toto have that relationship with the guy who picked my toilet? They've got a sales rep in Ogaki. His most important job is making sure they know of every business start for a construction company and that every time it happens the company gets a wreath (that's considered auspicious and is socially mandatory to buy when someone close to you starts a shop) and the principals get invited out drinking. Toto is, naturally, buying. The sales guy will not be so gauche as to mention "Say, apropos of nothing, do you do cost-plus projects? We have a proposition for you which will put $100 extra in your pocket for every bathroom you build."

arrrg 14y ago
People don’t pick the toilets in their houses? I find that hard to imagine. People not picking the pipes or bricks that are used I can see, but the toilet? No way. Before I buy a toilet I want to at least sit on it and I cannot imagine anyone feeling any other way about that.
- shabble 14y ago
  The situation for new builds / speculative construction which are then placed on the market, versus 'having a house built to your specifications', might be some of the difference. Or you (that is, not you or I, but "people") might select a "style" of bathroom or use a particular interior designer whom you trust to make appropriate decisions. If you're not getting an incredibly detailed itemised bill, you might find it tough to spot ~1K extra in 'bathroom furniture and installations'
- lambda 14y ago
  How many people build their own house, as opposed to buying one from a previous owner or a developer? Also, remember that not everyone owns their own house. Many people rent apartments or houses from other people, or live with families. Between all of those factors, I would say a very small percentage of toilets in this country were picked out by the person using them.

aptimpropriety 14y ago

Every one of these articles gets the pitch of these toilets completely wrong - for every person, and in every scenario, these are not universally better. Consider the following experiment: Smear some mud on your arm. Now, using a jet stream the power of a squirt gun and very low precision, wash it all off in 10 seconds. Not so easy. Then - imagine if you put mud on a place with hair! Not only will it not be clean without some actual washing, we haven't even gotten to the drying part yet. Fact of the matter is, these do not replace toilet paper. I thought they were OK (Google) until I decided to use toilet paper after - and I was shocked and disappointed. My routine simply got longer and more complex, with a small value add of washing with water instead of dry paper. Sorry about the grim detail - I think the 'squeamish about bathroom routine' point of the article is right - just in the wrong way!

radley 14y ago
You're thinking either/or instead of "finishing the job". When you dive into a mud pit, do you wipe yourself off with paper towels until you're done, or do you use a bit of soap & water?
- runjake 14y ago
  I think you completely missed his point.
  - masukomi 14y ago
    I can confirm @aptimpropriety's claim after having tested this in bidets in multiple countries. It doesn't matter how high you turn on the water pressure, if you grab a piece of toilet paper afterwards it seems to always find some... remainders.
    - radley 14y ago
      Use the paper first. Then some soap & water.

lux 14y ago

Do these improve upon the ergonomics of the common toilet? I'm thinking of the comparison between sitting and squatting positions.

axusgrad 14y ago
Heated seats. Finding a plumber I trust seems like a problem some startup has solved. There's never enough time to follow this up, I've been intending to upgrade for over a year.
- seanmcdirmid 14y ago
  Heated toilet seats are essential in Japan where many houses lack very good indoor heating. The best for me was heated train seats, but we've ventured away from toilets.
- lux 14y ago
  I'm thinking something more like this: http://ergonomenon.com/ergonomics-articles/the-ergonomics-of-the-toilet/ http://ergonomenon.com/ergonomics-articles/the-ergonomics-of...

traughber 14y ago

Another place in San Francisco that has Japanese toilets? Our company, GREE International. And we're hiring :) http://gree-corp.com/jobs http://gree-corp.com/jobs

tomjen3 14y ago
Now to get a visa.

radley 14y ago

Hotel Kabuki in Japantown has them of course...

wahnfrieden 14y ago
Most Japanese restaurants in NYC as well.
suyash 14y ago
Oh, the one in Japantown on Geary St. in SF, I need to stay there sometime

eob 14y ago

Americans, by and large, are quite bizarre when it comes to discussing anything that takes place below the belt. When I mentioned working at Google, I have had multiple people say to me, "I heard the founders at Google are OBSESSED with toilets and import special models from Japan." As if one has to be stark raving mad to use a modern toilet from Japan, instead of the old fashioned toilet which was probably imported from China anyway.

FrojoS 14y ago
While I agree that Americans are especially prude, its not like these toilets are noticeable more common in Europe. Of course the French have their bidet...
- GuiA 14y ago
  >Of course the French have their bidet... I'm French- there's a bidet at my grandparents' house which is never used, and there used to be one at my parents' house but they removed it when they remodeled the bathroom because they never used it (it was there when they bought the house). I've only ever used a bidet to wash my feet (or as kids, we would put our swimsuits in it to dry). I'm not even sure what its original purpose is.
  - StavrosK 14y ago
    It's for washing your nether regions.
  - forgottenpaswrd 14y ago
    Spanish here. I agree, we use the bidets basically for washing our feet too. The original purpose was for women and their period... those kind of things on a time in witch using large quantities of water inside the building(for shower) was not that common(shower needs high water pressure too).
  - nvmc 14y ago
    The original purpose is to squirt water at your anus to loosen any left over faecal matter.

xutopia 14y ago

I live in Canada and if that water isn't heated before coming in contact with my hiney I can assure you that it'll be too cold for comfort at least in the winter.

bryanlarsen 14y ago
It doesn't make much difference whether it's winter or summer. The water temperature isn't below zero or it would be ice. If the water source doesn't go below zero when the air temperature is -30, it's not going to get much warmer when the air temperature is +30.
w1ntermute 14y ago
Heated water is an option.
gutnor 14y ago
I'm just back from holiday in Japan. All the toilets I used had heated (tepid) water. To me that's what made the difference between pleasant and what could have been awful.

bagosm 14y ago

I cant believe how overenthusiastic this article is. From one of the reviews it quotes: “Going to the bathroom has become an enjoyable experience.” Other than they might as well be good, they are certainly a novelty unless you have very specific reasons to get one. Also another thing to fear is cameras and wifi, it's japanese after all! Somebody is pushin some high-tech loos! I'd rather know how to use the three seashell system...

nikatwork 14y ago
Try one before passing judgement. Seriously, try one. It's a quasi-religious experience.

me2i81 14y ago

I suppose with all this discussion of efficiency of cleansing it might be indelicate to point out that some people enjoy having warm water shot up their ass, and women enjoy the "front wash" feature also.

shakoosh99 14y ago

They are sold in the U.S http://www.pilotbidet.com/ http://www.pilotbidet.com/

ComputerGuru 14y ago

$15 in parts from your local hardware store gets you the basic tools you need to build a water-powered hygiene system. All you need is the "spray head" with flexible hose [0], plus the adaptor to make a kitchen part fit the bathroom piping (for some reason, kitchen and bathroom have non-interchangeable parts). You hang it on a hook next to the toilet, and you use it to clean yourself. I cannot live without these, and I intensely regret any overnight trips to a hotel or other place that does not have such an amenity. I regularly recommend and sometimes even buy and install these for friends and family. The USA is still living in the dark ages when it comes to some parts of self-hygiene. 0: http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21PJ48yqYmL._SL500_AA300_.jpg http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/21PJ48yqYmL._SL500_AA3...

seanmcdirmid 14y ago
This is how they do it in Thailand, at least. Basically, imagine the sprayer in your kitchen sink attached to your toilet. In areas without (edit: running) water, they'll have a bucket of clean water nearby with some sort of cup to use. I've heard this is pretty common in SE Asia.
- simontzu 14y ago
  Yup! And people eat with their hands a lot too. This is why its considered disgusting to eat with the left hand in many places. Right hand for eating, left hand for washing your ass. One of the benefits of having travelled a lot in Asia is you will never again be phased by running out of toilet paper.
  - seanmcdirmid 14y ago
    People in SE Asia don't eat with their hands, you must be thinking about Central/South Asia. Spray cleaning really isn't that bad, you should be washing your hands after anyways.
    - jinushaun 14y ago
      No, we (Thai, Laos, and Cambodian) do eat with our hands. Chopsticks were a cultural import from the Chinese.

antirez 14y ago

How the wonderful Japanese gardens, their sensibility for design, beauty, simplicity, and this awful toilets can convive in the same culture, is a mystery to me.

mcormier 14y ago

"These exquisite toilets are everywhere in Japan" Really? I was there for 5 days last spring and never encountered one of these toilets. I did, however, encounter a hole in the ground, you gotta squat to do a number two public toilet stall.

Osmium 14y ago
I've been to both Sapporo and Tokyo, and I can assure you there're everywhere. Certainly everywhere I went. I did see squat toilets too though; some places had both.
Kiro 14y ago
It's like saying you never encountered a "normal" toilet while visiting Europe. That's how common these are in Japan.

jnar 14y ago

I mean, seriously. Forget about hyper-tech stuff and get a normal bidet and learn how to wash your ass properly. That's pretty much all you need to improve your life and it will cost way less than 500$.

benihana 14y ago

Because I have no control over which toilets the apartment complex I'm living in chooses.

miahi 14y ago

I think it's just because the Japanese are really obsessed with cleanliness and others are not.

moheeb 14y ago
I have a shower next to my toilet. Take that, Japanese people!!
- miahi 14y ago
  Do you also have an antibacterial pencil or notebook? Did you buy your car because it has an antibacterial steering wheel? http://articles.latimes.com/1996-11-21/news/mn-1397_1_cleaning-hygiene-antibacterial http://articles.latimes.com/1996-11-21/news/mn-1397_1_cleani...
spqr 14y ago
Yeah I don't think so, buddy. I won't be shooting a stream of water onto my asshole that originates from a nozzle that spends 24x7 inside a toilet. Who the hell knows who pissed, shit or bled onto that nozzle before it's spraying its bacterial frappe up my poopshoot? No thank you.

ww520 14y ago

It's too expensive. $1000 vs a typical $100 toilet. Cleaning this thing is an extra hassle. The psychological aversion of having some liquid spraying FROM the toilet adds to the lack of interest.

mattmoss 14y ago

http://youtu.be/F9cdyd0nU9w http://youtu.be/F9cdyd0nU9w

cerebrum 14y ago

I thought this would be about the benefits of the squat toilet.

schiffern 14y ago
Yep, me too. Given how much time it saves, I'm surprised more life hackers don't get into it. http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2010/08/dont_just_sit_there.single.html http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/201...

acomjean 14y ago

I have a TOTO (cambridge ma), but it has none of the fancy features. It did come with a sticker on the seat for www.cleanishappy.com/ which sells the super toilet seat ad ons. The toliet works well and uses very little water. It doesn't spin flush but instead uses a wave of water when flushing.

usefulcat 14y ago
We got one of these for each bathroom because they are virtually uncloggable. They may not render toilet paper obsolete, but they do very nearly render the plunger obsolete.

w1ntermute 14y ago

A funny related article: Odor-eliminating pants are hot seller in Japan; Undergarments disguise smell of flatulence, body odor: http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/health/odor-eliminating-pants-hot-seller-japan-article-1.1201110 http://www.nydailynews.com/life-style/health/odor-eliminatin...

muraiki 14y ago

At first I thought this article would be about squat toilets (which I did also encounter in Greece). While it's true that a squat toilet means that you don't have to sit on something that other people have sat on, it also leaves a lot of room for, how shall I put it... error? I encountered some pretty bad public restrooms in Japan... When I lived in Japan for a few months, I think I only ever came across one or two bidet toilets. Frankly, I was too afraid to try it. I kept wondering what would happen if the mechanism malfunctioned or missed or something. Typical geek worries, I guess!

mirkules 14y ago

While I find bidet toilets incredibly useful, I don't understand why this is such a sudden revelation. The French invented these toilets in the 18th century: they were/are in wide use in Europe, middle east, and I've even encountered a few in Canadian hotels (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bidet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bidet). Is there something fundamentally different about Japanese bidets (other than integration into the toilet itself)?

beatgammit 14y ago
I think the main difference is that the Japanese toilet is paperless. From the wikipedia page: > In 1980 the first "paperless toilet" was launched in Japan, a combination toilet and bidet which also dries the user after washing. The bidet often required something separate to dry after cleaning, so the difference seems to be integration with the toilet plus the dryer (heated seat optional). On another note, on a recent trip to Korea, I noticed that many homes had these toilets (mentioned on wikipedia article). The article seems to imply that they are unique to Japan, when they're actually popular almost everywhere outside of the US.
- henrikschroder 14y ago
  Eh, they're not popular in Europe either.

Osmium 14y ago

How does one go about cleaning these? It always seemed to me that, if the nozzle got dirty, then they could cause more problems than they solve. Especially (to quote the article) if it's spraying the "female genital area." If there's any bacteria on that nozzle, and since it's been in a toilet for any number of years I'd guess there might be, surely there'd be a risk of it causing UTIs and the like?

Pinatubo 14y ago
A friend of mine has one of these toilets, and the first thing I did before sitting down was look at the nozzle. It was covered in tiny bits of feces. I stuck with the toilet paper.
- glanch 14y ago
  So, we're done here.
duaneb 14y ago
IIRC some of them have self-cleaning mechanisms. Anyway, I would imagine I would still want to clean once a week with the rest of the toilet.
studio35 14y ago
Ever since I tried a Toto in Japan, I've become fascinated with these bidet seats, and have since become an expert on them, after building my own bidet seat review blog and bidet seat store to resell Brondell products (which are among the top brands). I've learned that most of the top end bidet seats have complex nozzle retraction and sanitization systems. The Brondell Swash 1000 we sell has stainless steel nozzles treated with "silver oxide nano particles" that resist bacteria, and most models have systems that rinse the nozzle before and after each use. The nozzles typically retract when not in use so that they're not in the line of fire of human waste.

stcredzero 14y ago

I'm sure it's because Americans have funny attitudes. Programmers, who spend lots of time sitting, should see this as a way of increasing comfort during work time. For the same reason and others (prevalence of pizza at meet ups) programmers should consider modest amounts of fiber supplements like Metamucil. (Not like a conventional laxative at all, and it enables your GI tract to handle just about anything you throw at it gracefully, so long as you get enough water.)

lotso 14y ago
Metamucil is definitely my favorite lifehack. Not to be crude, but having no-wipe number 2s is amazing.

ErrantX 14y ago

Also, economics. These toilets currently cost ~$500 more than a "normal" toilet. Of course, you do use significantly more toilet paper with the latter, but a pack is ~$5 and lasts ~ 1 month, so you'd still be looking at, what 8-10 year return on investment.

crusso 14y ago
but a pack is ~$5 and lasts ~ 1 month Ah, I remember my bachelor days too.
- ErrantX 14y ago
  Multibuy is your friend! I sat down and worked out our real toilet roll cost and it is lower than $5/mo
- infinii 14y ago
  Lol, he obviously doesn't have a woman in the house.
brc 14y ago
You are obviously a bachelor.
- ErrantX 14y ago
  Nope! I live with my girlfriend :) You lot seem to be spending a lot on toilet paper!!

jbverschoor 14y ago

I can't imagine these responses over here.. I've been to japan 3 times, and everytime I wish I would have one of these things here.

base698 14y ago

In a humid/muggy environment I didn't know how I lived without Japanese toilets. I secretly wished we'd lost WW2 after I visited Tokyo the first time :)

ma2xd 14y ago

How do you know when you are clean and it's safe to pull up your pants? Does it have a mirror or something?

majormajor 14y ago

The US population seems rather stubborn regarding toilet habits. This is anecdotal, but I knew a guy who interned about a decade ago with a company that produces a lot of toilet paper here in the US. He told me that they had internally developed forms of "wet" toilet paper that were pretty much superior to the dry kind in every way (think of the difference in trying to clean off your hands with a dry paper towel and a wet wipe of some kind), and IIRC they thought they could produce them in a way that wouldn't cause a substantial price hike, but whenever they did tests consumers almost universally hated the feeling, and regardless of how much better/easier they cleaned, they basically refused to consider them. Which is a shame, since dry paper really isn't the best cleaning tool...

anonymous 14y ago
Bizarre. I always first wipe with some wet toilet paper and then use dry for the finish.
smackfu 14y ago
One obvious problem: room temperature wet things are kind of cold when you put them down there.

Aloisius 14y ago

The only reason I do not have one is that I don't have a power plug near my toilet. It has been my experience that women, once they try them, especially love bidets with built in dryers. The marketing could be better. Education comes first. If non-bidet toilets were contrasted as crude, unhygienic and downright barbaric, I think we'd see a lot more demand for them and bidet makers should be offering them free to restaurants and clothing stores to place in women's bathrooms. But for me, the problem still comes back to power.

makmanalp 14y ago

The odd thing is, in Turkey we universally have a nozzle on the back of the toilet that just is a stream of water that falls in an arc forwards. You control it from a tap on the side, on the wall. You turn on the stream and then angle yourself onto it, or wet your toilet paper a bit when wiping. Way less toilet paper (just to wipe&dry at the end), cleans way faster, your bum is not itchy, and it costs nothing. The toilet bowls come with this. I hate American toilets. This can't just be a Turkish quirk, right?

GFischer 14y ago
Nope. Reading the comments, anywhere BUT the United States you can get some form of water cleaning - Southern Europeans and South Americans have Bidets - Northern Europeans have Bidet Showers (well, Germans have the shelf thing) - Asians have these toilets (saw posts claiming about Korea, India and Japan) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bidet http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bidet http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bidet_shower http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bidet_shower

mberning 14y ago

Try using a toilet in Germany. Without being too crass, you deposit your excrement onto a dry shelf, whereupon it may be inspected, or not, and then a rush of water slides it off the shelf to its destination.

iso-8859-1 14y ago
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toilette#Porzellanstandardbecken http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toilette#Porzellanstandardbecke...
LVB 14y ago
Thanks. Up until 10 seconds ago, my memories of those had been nearly completely purged.
kghose 14y ago
1. Uses less water 2. No splash back
- daralthus 14y ago
  Also it is designed to facilitate stool examination, as it was invented when huge dysentery epidemics spread through Europe.
- smackfu 14y ago
  3. Smells worse.
  - kalleboo 14y ago
    This cannot be understated. They smell really bad. Have a friend who lived in Prague and his bathroom wasn't ventilated and he had a german shelf-toilet. Day after a big drinking session, it was unusable since the room smelt so bad.
- scotty79 14y ago
  Double plus for no splashback. I don't get how people can suffer through this. I hate so much being splashed by dirty toilet water. And this happens like 50% of times for me while using non-german style toilet.

paulsutter 14y ago

Touch-free and heated are the main advantages of Japanese toilets. The seat raises as you approach, lowers automatically, and the toilet flushes when you stand up. I returned yesterday from a two-month trip to Japan, and now the toilets here seem primitive, unclean, and cold. Why touch a toilet seat or handle with your hand?

marknutter 14y ago

Flushable wet wipes changed my bathroom life. I now don't even consider doing my business without them. Way cheaper than installing a bidet, and I would argue it's more effective, too.

ars 14y ago
BTW There is no such thing as a flushable wet wipe. They claim you can flush them, but they actually clog pipes frequently, and don't disintegrate like they should. http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/video-hub/home--garden/bed--bath/flushable-wipes/16935265001/22783507001/ http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/video-hub/home--garden/be...
bitsoda 14y ago
A bidet attachment is less than $50. It's also a one-time cost. Having to purchase wet wipes will eventually cost you more. Also, you're still just smearing poop allover your bum with a wipe. The bidet's jet of water effectively blasts your area clean. Think about it like this: if you cook a spaghetti dinner with meatballs and tomato sauce, would you wet wipe the plates and put them back in the cupboard? Of course not, you'd give the dishes a proper rinsing under a stream of water. I will never understand the aversion to bidets. Anything less is uncivilized, and quite frankly, disgusting.

jiggy2011 14y ago

I imagine it's to do with price, at least for public toilets. Here in the UK , we can't have nice things because someone will just take the liberty of smashing it to pieces for you. For what I have heard about places like Tokyo; you have vending machines for just about all of your needs, fancy toilets and video game arcades have actual chairs to sit on while you play the machines. None of these things would last 5 minutes in the UK.

saurabhambry 14y ago

Its not just Japan. These toilets are what you find in most middle class homes in India too!

captainchaos 14y ago

These toilets are a pleasure to use. But I think the main reason many people don't consider them is that you need a nearby electrical socket or have a big dumb cable on your bathroom floor. The article quotes $500 to have a GFCI socket installed but that in unrealistically low in some parts of the country. > $1000 is a decent investment, especially if you consider your bunghole reasonably clean today.

hnriot 14y ago

I wouldn't want a bidet like contraption, it's just massive overkill for something that humans have turned into a big deal. People seemed to manage for hundreds of centuries just fine without computerized toilets. Utterly ridiculous and a good example of the first world having gone crazy. These are just extortion, taking advantage of a cultural "issue" in a first world country like Japan. I can't believe hn are even discussing this.

teejaygreen 14y ago
I wouldn't want a car like contraption, it's just massive overkill for something that humans have turned into a big deal. People seemed to manage for hundreds of centuries just fine without motorized horses. Utterly ridiculous and a good example of the first world having gone crazy. These are just extortion, taking advantage of a cultural "issue" in a first world country like America. I can't believe hn are even discussing this.
- hnriot 14y ago
  motorized transportation is clearly an advantage, having water squirted up your arse is, at best fetishistic, and at worst just a total waste of time/electricity. If you can't see the difference then go right ahead and keep discussing this nonsense. Funny how the rest of the animal kingdom seems to have managed. Funny how nobody but the Japanese want these? Ever ask why the same nation that needs soiled panty dispensing vending machines also needs an electric bidet. See it for what it is, a fetish. I'm sure jonathan swift would have loved one.
  - mayanksinghal 14y ago
    Actually South Asian toilets have water cleaning as well. For the squatting ones, which are becoming less and less common, people use mugs - for western toilets, there is a flexible faucet that you can use to spray. So no. This is not a fetish. At least not one that is restricted to just Japan.
  - venus 14y ago
    You obviously have no experience with the devices in question, and your generalisations about other cultures are ignorant, at best. Cleaning yourself with water, whether it be your hands or your butt, is not a "fetish" and I cannot comprehend why you would try to paint it as such. Why are you so scared of the idea that you'll go to the extreme of trying to dismiss it as sexual deviancy? Your argument says a lot more about you than it does about the topic at hand. And for your information, used pantie vending machines in Japan is basically an urban myth. There may be some in fetishist sex shops, I'm not sure. I'm sure you can buy used panties in American fetish sex shops, too.

omnisci 14y ago

I don't use those because I prefer the 3 shells. Although I've never used one the Japanese toilets, I would be a huge fan of the heated seat portion. If I had the money, that would be a feature I'd enjoy.

gokulk 14y ago

They actually have these in Google mountain view

evolve2k 14y ago

Toilet habits form early and then are hard to change I'm thinking one idea for creating a market would be to pick a city and then subsidize the toilets to be installed in child care centers and primary schools. Get kids used to the experience and benefit from the 'yeah I remember we had them at school' affect later.

darkstar999 14y ago

What happens when the controls on these toilets wear out? Are they replaceable? The thing about toilets I am used to in the US is that the moving parts are completely replaceable.

zampano 14y ago

What I really miss from Japan are the toilets with a sink on top of the water container on the back (something like this: http://f00.inventorspot.com/images/profile-toilet.jpg http://f00.inventorspot.com/images/profile-toilet.jpg). You flush the toilet and the water refilling the container comes out of a faucet for you to wash your hands real quick and the water going down the drain fills the container up for the next flush. It seems so simple and helps save a tiny bit of water every trip to the bathroom. Now if only Japanese bathrooms started providing their own soap so I wouldn't have to bring my own everywhere...

GFischer 14y ago
Japanese sure are efficient with their use of space :) .

graeme 14y ago

I recently started using a squat toilet. Never has number two gone so well. Apparently it's the position we're best designed for. Provides a great hip flexor stretch too. I use a lillipad: http://www.lillipad.co.nz/ http://www.lillipad.co.nz/ It converts any normal toilet into an optional squat toilet. I don't think it would work with these warm-water jet toilets though. If you have any issues with your bowel movements (constipation, diarrhea, both), you owe it to yourself to try a squat toilet.

mmagin 14y ago
Here's another similar product http://www.naturesplatform.com/ http://www.naturesplatform.com/
- graeme 14y ago
  They sent me a 'sorry, we have to much business to sell you anything' message. I suggested they raise prices to a level that would let them sell more. Never heard anything back.
meej 14y ago
I already posted about this upthread, but now I'll post with a link: http://www.squattypotty.com http://www.squattypotty.com

numeromancer 14y ago

This article needs a demo video.

anonymous 14y ago

1. They're much more expensive 2. You need to retrain your cleaning staff to know how to handle these. It's like entrusting them with dusting off your server rack.

michelleclsun 14y ago

The best part of these toilets is not the washing function, which in Asia frankly not a lot of people use (I lived in Hong Kong, Beijing and traveled extensively across main cities in Asia) but the heated seats. Once in a ski lodge in Niseko, Hokkaido, Japan, after a long day of snowboarding, these heated seats really save the day - Japanese perfectionism at its best.

piyush_soni 14y ago

After being in multiple countries, I can safely conclude that if you think the daily 'paper' routine can clean it properly, it can't. If you think only a water jet can clean it properly, it can't. You have to use both. My schedule is something like : Paper->Water jet->Paper and I feel perfect after this! :)

dsrguru 14y ago

Watch the washlet industry sweep across the Bay Area now.

xmstr 14y ago

I use three seashells. They're the best!

rco8786 14y ago

Because they're all in Japan!

radley 14y ago

I've been planning to install one but: 1) I rent 2) have two bathrooms: downstairs everyone uses, upstairs is mostly me. So: 1) do I take care of everyone or just myself first (i.e. upstairs or downstairs)? 2) costs are probably not as low as they claim. I'll need to have an electrician run power near to the toilet which also means ripping out part of the wall, replacing, and repainting. 3) I feel funny doing this as a tenant and I've wondered how well property company would respond to covering the installation costs. I figure it's like installing a new appliance...

jseims 14y ago

I installed two of these in my house. One of the best uses of money ever :)

john78 14y ago

As a cheaper alternative, you can try these two things: - A foot-stool to place your feet on so you are in a more natural position which seems to help with the flow of things and could reduce the amount of cleanup required. See "Going to the Bathroom 2.0" - http://youtu.be/0WQaqeC_wME http://youtu.be/0WQaqeC_wME - And flushable baby wipes. Simple but very effective.

trifilij 14y ago

I actually do use a bidet, from http://www.bluebidet.com/ http://www.bluebidet.com/ it was easy to install and keeps my ass clean

travis29 14y ago
Ha! I have the same one and love it!

Khurrum 14y ago

A thousand bucks to buy and install is kinda steep for minor comfort. If the company / apartment complex already does it, then its something cool, but otherwise its coming out of your paycheck and that money can buy other cool things that you might care about more.

giardini 14y ago

OK, so what do you do when the lights go out (and the power)?

nicholas73 14y ago

I know why I don't want one - the water will splash poop particles over my butt and legs, and no amount of added dryers is going to convince me that it is clean.

justinhj 14y ago

Going to the toilet is very culturally determined. Take a poo in Germany and when you stand up your poo will be waiting for you on a shelf, in case you wish to examine it (historically to identify health issues). Will that ever translate to the US? No, because it's a different culture not interested in examining their own poo. Same goes for Japan/Korea and the bum washing toilet.

jaseemabid 14y ago

We have nothing else to talk on HN other than toilets?

olgeni 14y ago
Node.js-based toilets?
- jaseemabid 14y ago
  :P

ktf 14y ago

If you live in SF check out the bathrooms in the Viz/New People Cinema on Post St -- they have these fancy contraptions. Maybe catch a movie while you're there, too :)

bluedanieru 14y ago

>These toilets, known as “washlets”, have many amazing features - the most notable of which is they render toilet paper obsolete. Uh, no they don't. And if the author is using them that way, that's fucking gross. If they rendered toilet paper obsolete then Japanese bathrooms wouldn't have toilet paper, or Japanese wouldn't use it anyway, but neither statement is true. The 'feature' of Japanese toilets is that your asshole will be clean, regardless of how dire the shit you just took is. And believe me, it's a wonderful thing, but it doesn't render the paper obsolete. Pardon the pun, but this author is talking out of his ass.

tomrod 14y ago

You know, sometimes there just needs to be a match to light the fire. Supposedly (but indeterminately) Clark Gable wearing no undershirt drove undershirt sales down 75%[0] I reckon an episode Modern Family or Community where this type of toilet/bidet is a positive driver of the comedy would bring in a lot of sales for bidets. [0] http://www.snopes.com/movies/actors/gable1.asp http://www.snopes.com/movies/actors/gable1.asp

towski 14y ago

The article says that bidet attachments are 100 dollars on Amazon. I have good news everyone! Amazon has dropped those prices to 30 dollars! I bought one!

kjell 14y ago

About a year ago I installed a bidet in my bathroom. It's the one pictured towards the bottom of this article, and I bought it on amazon. I use it and "cloth toilet paper" for my butt-cleaning. It's great. The water washes me clean. Often 100% and always most of the way. It took a bit to get the hang of it: to get a good wash I find it helps to clench my butt muscles and wiggle on the seat. After 5-10 seconds, I wipe with the cloth: old t-shirts cut into ~4x8" rectangles. The water does a much better job of cleaning than toilet paper. When I first had the bidet I used toilet paper after the spray to dry off. It was only slightly less miserable than having a waterlogged ass. I needed twice as much paper to dry myself off as I would have used to wipe. For a while I hung an old microfiber towel next to the toilet and used that, but "oh, that's just my butt-towel…" is an interesting conversation to have. So I cut up some old shirts. They go into a bucket after use and I wash them regularly. The cloth is what makes it work. I can only imagine what it would be like to have a blowdryer down there.

coltonb1 14y ago

They have one of these in the Google Venture Startup Lab and I can personally testify that they are every bit as good as this article describes. Thanks GV!

davemel37 14y ago

I recall an old Dave Barry article about laws around water usage in toilets... Turns out it is super-regulated. What I found fascinating was this site claiming that,"it takes 635 gallons of water to make a hamburger, but only one to flush it." http://www.map-testing.com/ http://www.map-testing.com/

eternalban 14y ago

“Basically, we're the Apple Computers of toilets” - Toto spokesperson Clearly not true. The Apple Computer of toilets would only allow you to download via iPoop.

beefman 14y ago

I'm sure I want a plastic nozzle, mounted inside a toilet, spraying water up into my ass. I poop in the morning, wipe off the worst with toilet paper, then hop in the shower. Works great, and my shower head has the advantage of never having been splashed by someone else's pee.

btilly 14y ago

My sister has one of these. My 4 year old used it. Once. When it sprayed her, she jumped up, ran out of the room, and refused to ever touch that toilet again.

yeonhoyoon 14y ago

These toilets are pretty common in Korea as well, but it's not recommended to use bidets in public toilets, because it can easily become contaminated with excrement, germs, etc.

frozenport 14y ago

Are they calibrated to European shapes and sizes?

senthilnayagam 14y ago

Like Japan, in India people prefer water over paper for cultural reasons, we dont have bidets but use health faucets

gabchan 14y ago

The question should also be "why aren't the Chinese all using (at least) western toilets?" :P

anotherbadlogin 14y ago

So everyone's fine with having a dripping wet ass after taking a dump? And toilet paper pretty much turns to pulp the instant water touches it, so if you wipe a dripping wet ass with it, you're going to have a pulpy ass.

rsaarelm 14y ago

Don't all new bathrooms have bidet showers? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bidet_shower http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bidet_shower Huh, guess not. Those have been around in Finland at least since the late 80s, and don't have the "what's the deal with the computerized toilet seat" image problem.

S_A_P 14y ago

So not trolling here- serious question. My concern with these things is that the spray nozzle would get "dirty" and end up spraying fecal or urine tainted water at my bum. When you raise the seat does the spray nozzle raise with it? How easy is it to clean? I have 2-10 year old kids that would be using this thing so I am more concerned because they have not yet mastered good aim or toilet hygiene...

hasenj 14y ago

You don't need high tech. You just needs some pipes and a water hose; AKA: "shattaf". It's quite common in the middle east. Unfortunately these are not easy to install in houses built in a North American style, because there are no floor drains in the toilet, so if you install a "shattaf" the floor will eventually soak in water; keeping it clean and dry is very annoying and difficult. I don't understand why people in the West use toilet papers instead of washing. When I have to use toilet papers, I will also use flushable wet wipes.

taofu 14y ago

Washlets do not substitute for toilet paper. a)The toilet spray isn't sufficient to eradicate your fecal remains, unless it is adjusted to garden-hose spray levels. Painful. b)Drying your sprayed behind with a heated fan is uncomfortable.

solarbunny 14y ago

How about this swedish self cleaning toilet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5ul7prwoiM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5ul7prwoiM

jtlienwis 14y ago

And once we get passsed the bidet stage then we can go on to the urine diverting toilet. Check out the latest toilet design competition run by the Gates foundation...

GFischer 14y ago
Nice. I have a sketch of an urine recycling toilet - my point was to use recycled urine for the first flush cycle of feces, but I never had time nor money to make a prototype. I hope someone makes one, it should save quite a lot of water. I respect Bill Gates for working on those projects - it would be easier just to manage traditionally all that money.

cynoclast 14y ago

I do have one of these. I rent, so I didn't get a super expensive one that would require running electricity etc, but it is wonderful. Soooooo much cleaner than paper. Think about it, if you were to get shit on your hands you wouldn't just wipe it off with dry paper would you? Why do you wash your butt that way? It is completely illogical and very unsanitary. I bought one of these: http://www.amazon.com/LUXE-Bidet-Vi-110-Non-Electric-Mechanical/dp/B005IT4C6G/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1353003347&sr=1-1&keywords=bidet+toilet+seat http://www.amazon.com/LUXE-Bidet-Vi-110-Non-Electric-Mechani... $42 installed in 10 minutes with a screwdriver and wrench. I love it! I wish other bathrooms had them.

EdgarVerona 14y ago

Because I don't want to fly that far just to use the bathroom! ... joking aside, I think it's the notion of using water that might freak people out. I'm not opposed to the concept, but I would worry about its effectiveness. I mean, I feel like I'd always want toilet paper there, even if it's just a placebo for making me feel truly clean.