4 ms·

I recently listened to a podcast about the benefits of sauna or deliberate heat exposure and the gist is that if you get your core temperature at about 39 degre

by nsbk 6mo ago

I recently listened to a podcast about the benefits of sauna or deliberate heat exposure and the gist is that if you get your core temperature at about 39 degrees celsius your cardiovascular system is working comparably hard to light exercise. My take is that your heart and lungs are working out, even if your body is not. Do you get the same benefits as going for a run or bike ride for a comparable amount of time? no, since your limbs don't get fit, but your heart and lungs do.

mminer237 6mo ago
Edit: I posted this accidentally when editing without noticing. Hypertrophy isn't necessarily a bad thing. I thought I was discarding the comment cuz I realized I was out of my depth. whoops Please ignore my comment, though I will leave it to make the below comments less confusing. Original: You don't want to "work out" your heart though. Cardiac hypertrophy is a bad thing. The benefit of exercise is that your muscles become more oxygen-efficient. Your heart endures some stress now, so that it can work less in the future.
- rhyperior 6mo ago
  That seems… misguided. Sources?
- adrianN 6mo ago
  Wikipedia says Athlete's heart is benign: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athletic_heart_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athletic_heart_syndrome
- kiritanpo 6mo ago
  Cardiac hypertrophy is not necessarily a bad thing, it can be the result of positive adaptation, such as exercising. Eccentric hypertrophy (athlete's heart) is the positive adaptation resulting from training the heart. The heart has a lower resting rate and is more efficient at pumping blood. It returns to normal size if training stops. You'll never reach a state of hypertrophic cardiomyopathy (the bad kind of hypertrophy) with exercise. Its cause is usually genetic.
- jagged-chisel 6mo ago
  Your heart is also a muscle.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 6mo ago
    ... about the size of your fist. Keep loving, keep fighting. (attributed to Bertolt Brecht)
- SJMG 6mo ago
  This is terribly uniformed. Do not listen to this. Cardiac hypertrophy isn't a "bad thing". This is completely contextual. What you don't want, for example, is pathological hypertrophy from things like hypertension, or exclusive left ventricular hypertrophy without associated increase in chamber size. The heart is very complex. You 100% should exercise it.
- kazga 6mo ago
  Not true. You can't really train your muscles to use less oxygen for the same energy output (what "oxygen-efficiency" would imply). You rather increase their capacity to take up oxygen from the blood and burn it. They will use more oxygen to output more energy. That additional oxygen needs to come from somewhere. Endurance training at the same time trains the heart to deliver more oxygen to the periphery; the primary mechanism is increased cardiac stroke volume.
  - bluGill 6mo ago
    You kind of can - the muscles can use aerobic or anaerobic processes. When you develop brute strength you are training those anaerobic processes. That isn't what OP was talking about, and overall it is much less energy efficient, but it does produce a large burst of energy when needed and you can train your muscles that way.
  - gf000 6mo ago
    I would assume that another factor is that the technique for a given exercise on the other hand can be improved, and that can help with decreasing the necessary energy - would that be a correct statement? And as a follow up, depending on activity type this may or may not be significant?
    - frocodillo 6mo ago
      Yes, definitely. Technique is partly about efficient mechanical movement, sending the various parts of your body in the right direction(s) and not waste effort on movement that doesn’t contribute to propelling you forwards. But for endurance sports, it’s really about minimizing energy cost at a given speed. To use running as an example, you can improve biomechanical efficiency through better timing, correct loading of tendons, tendon stiffness, elastic energy use, and more.
- groundzeros2015 6mo ago
  This is why I hate health science. Informed people can have the same information and come to opposite conclusions. The entire field is made up of contradictory explanations and principles, to the extent that it’s unknowable what’s true or not.
  - robrenaud 6mo ago
    The flat earthers are why I hate astronomy. Afaict, the grand parent poster is just very wrong. You do want to cause acute stresses to your heart (cardiovascular exercise) to get it work better.
    - groundzeros2015 6mo ago
      It’s not really about this particular claim. It’s that I can read a comment that has a reasonable chain of logic and I don’t know if it’s true. This topic is just not easily studied and theories are hard to falsify.
    - groundzeros2015 6mo ago
      Claims about flat earth are falsifiable with at-home experiment.
shmel 6mo ago
Not saying you are wrong, but I'd like to see some evidence on that. Just because your heart is pumping faster doesn't mean your cardio fitness is getting better. Otherwise we could all just snort cocaine and skip the gym. Alcohol does that too, anyone with a fitness tracker can check that.
- xtracto 6mo ago
  Moreover, I'm from a very hot and humid tropical region. Its normal to ne 40°C with 80% humidity there. And you dont see people having better health or longevity (Yucatan peninsula) .
  - Insanity 6mo ago
    The great but not super healthy Mexican diet might offset the potential heat exposure benefits! Although I’m basing that on the diet of my Monterrey-based in-laws, not sure how different Yucatan is.
    - xtracto 6mo ago
      LOL, Monterrey diet is healthy compared to the diet in the Yucatan peninsula. Tamales, Cochinita (roasted pork with herbs), salbutes, trancas. Everything of course cooked in Lard. With CocaCola on the side. So yeah, that's a strong point.
      - cpursley 6mo ago
        Lard is fine as is pork, it’s the sugar and carbs.
  - actionfromafar 6mo ago
    But that would be like exercise all the time which may not be optimal. (Not saying the theory holds that sauna equals exercise, but if it does, sauna all the time may not be great. Plus, there may be other confounding factors with living in various locations.)
  - 6mo ago
bluecalm 6mo ago
For endurance training the main benefit of heat training is raising blood volume. Lungs are not a limiter. Developing stroke volume I imagine requires much higher intensity but that's just a wild guess based on my limited understanding of physiology. If heat training is better than another interval session remains to be seen but it seems a lot of smart people believe it's worth it nowadays.
- PaulDavisThe1st 6mo ago
  and specifically, to be clear, plasma volume.

by nsbk 6mo ago

mminer237 6mo ago

Edit: I posted this accidentally when editing without noticing. Hypertrophy isn't necessarily a bad thing. I thought I was discarding the comment cuz I realized I was out of my depth. whoops Please ignore my comment, though I will leave it to make the below comments less confusing. Original: You don't want to "work out" your heart though. Cardiac hypertrophy is a bad thing. The benefit of exercise is that your muscles become more oxygen-efficient. Your heart endures some stress now, so that it can work less in the future.

rhyperior 6mo ago
That seems… misguided. Sources?
adrianN 6mo ago
Wikipedia says Athlete's heart is benign: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athletic_heart_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athletic_heart_syndrome
kiritanpo 6mo ago
Cardiac hypertrophy is not necessarily a bad thing, it can be the result of positive adaptation, such as exercising. Eccentric hypertrophy (athlete's heart) is the positive adaptation resulting from training the heart. The heart has a lower resting rate and is more efficient at pumping blood. It returns to normal size if training stops. You'll never reach a state of hypertrophic cardiomyopathy (the bad kind of hypertrophy) with exercise. Its cause is usually genetic.
jagged-chisel 6mo ago
Your heart is also a muscle.
- PaulDavisThe1st 6mo ago
  ... about the size of your fist. Keep loving, keep fighting. (attributed to Bertolt Brecht)
SJMG 6mo ago
This is terribly uniformed. Do not listen to this. Cardiac hypertrophy isn't a "bad thing". This is completely contextual. What you don't want, for example, is pathological hypertrophy from things like hypertension, or exclusive left ventricular hypertrophy without associated increase in chamber size. The heart is very complex. You 100% should exercise it.
kazga 6mo ago
Not true. You can't really train your muscles to use less oxygen for the same energy output (what "oxygen-efficiency" would imply). You rather increase their capacity to take up oxygen from the blood and burn it. They will use more oxygen to output more energy. That additional oxygen needs to come from somewhere. Endurance training at the same time trains the heart to deliver more oxygen to the periphery; the primary mechanism is increased cardiac stroke volume.
- bluGill 6mo ago
  You kind of can - the muscles can use aerobic or anaerobic processes. When you develop brute strength you are training those anaerobic processes. That isn't what OP was talking about, and overall it is much less energy efficient, but it does produce a large burst of energy when needed and you can train your muscles that way.
- gf000 6mo ago
  I would assume that another factor is that the technique for a given exercise on the other hand can be improved, and that can help with decreasing the necessary energy - would that be a correct statement? And as a follow up, depending on activity type this may or may not be significant?
  - frocodillo 6mo ago
    Yes, definitely. Technique is partly about efficient mechanical movement, sending the various parts of your body in the right direction(s) and not waste effort on movement that doesn’t contribute to propelling you forwards. But for endurance sports, it’s really about minimizing energy cost at a given speed. To use running as an example, you can improve biomechanical efficiency through better timing, correct loading of tendons, tendon stiffness, elastic energy use, and more.
groundzeros2015 6mo ago
This is why I hate health science. Informed people can have the same information and come to opposite conclusions. The entire field is made up of contradictory explanations and principles, to the extent that it’s unknowable what’s true or not.
- robrenaud 6mo ago
  The flat earthers are why I hate astronomy. Afaict, the grand parent poster is just very wrong. You do want to cause acute stresses to your heart (cardiovascular exercise) to get it work better.
  - groundzeros2015 6mo ago
    It’s not really about this particular claim. It’s that I can read a comment that has a reasonable chain of logic and I don’t know if it’s true. This topic is just not easily studied and theories are hard to falsify.
  - groundzeros2015 6mo ago
    Claims about flat earth are falsifiable with at-home experiment.

shmel 6mo ago

Not saying you are wrong, but I'd like to see some evidence on that. Just because your heart is pumping faster doesn't mean your cardio fitness is getting better. Otherwise we could all just snort cocaine and skip the gym. Alcohol does that too, anyone with a fitness tracker can check that.

xtracto 6mo ago
Moreover, I'm from a very hot and humid tropical region. Its normal to ne 40°C with 80% humidity there. And you dont see people having better health or longevity (Yucatan peninsula) .
- Insanity 6mo ago
  The great but not super healthy Mexican diet might offset the potential heat exposure benefits! Although I’m basing that on the diet of my Monterrey-based in-laws, not sure how different Yucatan is.
  - xtracto 6mo ago
    LOL, Monterrey diet is healthy compared to the diet in the Yucatan peninsula. Tamales, Cochinita (roasted pork with herbs), salbutes, trancas. Everything of course cooked in Lard. With CocaCola on the side. So yeah, that's a strong point.
    - cpursley 6mo ago
      Lard is fine as is pork, it’s the sugar and carbs.
- actionfromafar 6mo ago
  But that would be like exercise all the time which may not be optimal. (Not saying the theory holds that sauna equals exercise, but if it does, sauna all the time may not be great. Plus, there may be other confounding factors with living in various locations.)
- 6mo ago

bluecalm 6mo ago

For endurance training the main benefit of heat training is raising blood volume. Lungs are not a limiter. Developing stroke volume I imagine requires much higher intensity but that's just a wild guess based on my limited understanding of physiology. If heat training is better than another interval session remains to be seen but it seems a lot of smart people believe it's worth it nowadays.

PaulDavisThe1st 6mo ago
and specifically, to be clear, plasma volume.