11 ms·

Peptides: where to begin?

266 points by A_D_E_P_T 7mo ago

A_D_E_P_T 7mo ago
Lowe has a point, but the FDA has painted itself into a corner by (a) forcing up the costs and the various bureaucratic demands associated with clinical trials, (b) allowing drug advertising , but then forcing those comical "may cause death" disclaimers, both of which have become totally ubiquitous, and (c) inconsistently following its own rules, and in some cases flouting its own rules. At this point, broscience is considered no less valid than actual clinical trials, and the FDA should blame itself for this. Not "human nature being what it is in this fallen world" in a sort of general or abstract sense. Another point I could raise is that telemedicine has turned the entire prescription system into nothing more than a parasitic middleman/gatekeeper. FDA reform is very badly necessary. That ought to come before harsher enforcement, and I think that much of the populace already intuitively understands this.
- jmye 7mo ago
  > Another point I could raise is that telemedicine has turned the entire prescription system into nothing more than a parasitic middleman/gatekeeper. I’m curious what you mean by this. I’m not sure what you mean by “prescription system” specifically.
  - tastyfreeze 7mo ago
    Go to doctor, get prescription for restricted medicine, pick up prescription. If you can call up a teledoc and they give you a prescription based on your description why could you not just go buy the meds yourself without a prescription. You have essentially diagnosed yourself and just asked the doctor for permission to buy the drug you want.
    - jmye 7mo ago
      That’s… not how actual telemedicine works. That’s how jackasses “disrupt” healthcare for very specific drugs. Mostly birth control, ED meds, and various hair regrowth meds. It’s really clear that some of you are really mad about something you don’t understand.
  - A_D_E_P_T 7mo ago
    I'll give you a case in point. This article was discussed the other day: > https://www.nytimes.com/2026/04/02/technology/ai-billion-dollar-company-medvi.html https://www.nytimes.com/2026/04/02/technology/ai-billion-dol... People want GLP-1 drugs. They can't get them without a prescription. They pay $$$ to a "telemedicine" "doctor", recite a list of well-known symptoms, and buy the prescription. The system is that you can't buy these drugs without the piece of paper, and the piece of paper is basically something that anybody can buy regardless of whether or not they actually need the drug. Wanting it is usually enough.
    - hombre_fatal 7mo ago
      I think access is a good thing. The issue isn't with telemedicine but the fact that there's a prescription wall for helpful meds like GLP-1 in a country where we've failed people by creating one of the worst food environments. Also, most doctor's visits aren't any different from getting it if you want it except it's gated on the mood/attitude of the doctor, maybe your ability to sell some sob story. And then you book a different doctor until you get it. Telemedicine just makes the process easier an arbitrary system.
      - kube-system 7mo ago
        GLP-1 prescriptions are easy to get in the US. It's filling the prescription that is the problem, because insurance rarely covers it and it is beyond the disposable income of most Americans. The prescription hurdle is absolutely necessary -- these are not drugs that anyone can safely take without guidance. It's the price that needs to be fixed.
        hombre_fatal 7mo ago
        I know a lot of people on GLP-1 meds and even took a dose myself out of curiosity. You take a dose every two weeks. And if you accidentally double dose because you misread 1U to mean 1 dose, it just gives you some nausea. Are we going to pretend it's hard to take this drug now too? Or that the doctor has some magical insight into your getting-on? Remember to eat. That's it. I guess a few people might need the doctor to go "you're eating, right?" but I don't believe in infantilizing everyone over that.
  - ai_critic 7mo ago
    I take certain medications--nothing interesting, nothing controlled, nothing abusable. I have to deal with a whole thing just to get refills, because my PCP forces me to come in every time--and even that is now just a telehealth call that is annoying. In Mexico, for meds like mine, you can just buy them at the pharmacy. There's no reason for all this nonsense. (Edit: same PCP refused to prescribe GLP-1s early, without any scientific or medical reason not to. Delayed my weightloss by months until I found a place that would.)
  - pedalpete 7mo ago
    The "perscription system" used to be that you'd have to go see a doctor, the doctor knew who you were, and would make decisions on what prescriptions/medications you should be given. Due to drug advertising rules, the prescription system has been turned on its head, and the patient now goes to their doctor asking for a specific prescription. Telemedicine took advantage of this and has effectively removed the middleman (the doctor) in many cases and you just sign-up look at a person on a camera, and get your drugs sent to you.
    - jmye 7mo ago
      > Telemedicine took advantage of this and has effectively removed the middleman (the doctor) in many cases and you just sign-up look at a person on a camera, and get your drugs sent to you. This is only true for a handful of drugs that are basically OTC already (or that have OTC formulations). Additionally, telemedicine didn’t take advantage of drug advertising- that’s an odd assertion.
      - pedalpete 7mo ago
        The system changed from the doctor deciding what drugs you should take to the patient asking for the drug by name from the doctor. I think this enabled telemedicine to work in the way it does not. The patient says "I want wegovy" and the telemedicine platform says "ok, here you go". Would telehealth pill-pushers exist without this mentality?
  - phil21 7mo ago
    > I’m curious what you mean by this. I’m not sure what you mean by “prescription system” specifically. They basically operate as a "pay for a prescription" service. Figure out what drug you want, google the drug name and telehealth. You will be marketed in a wink wink sort of manner over how easy it is to get them, just hours away! Then if you are not a total idiot, you answer certain questions in the right manner on the intake form, the doctor (usually NP/PA or similar for most things) will quickly run through that and expect you to answer correctly - perhaps guide you a bit if you don't. 5 minutes later you have a prescription in the web portal and it's sent to your pharmacy of choice. It really shows how the whole "permission slip" program is BS. I've used these services a couple times vs. my normal doctor just to save time and expense of an office visit. If I can click some buttons, have a call 30 minutes later, and be on my way to the pharmacy for $50 it's sometimes the path I take now vs. traditional route. Someone used to the traditional doctor/patient relationship thing and prescriptions being "holy" would be shocked at how easy and gamed it all is.
    - cycomanic 7mo ago
      Well that's a problem with the profit driven US health system (although admittedly other countries have similar problems to varying degrees) not prescriptions in general though? In particular the take home from this should be to make it more difficult to get the prescriptions not to do away with prescriptions.
- cwmoore 7mo ago
  When medicine ignores nutrition entirely, and nutrient supplements are still complete unknowns, you have to wonder who the FDA is working for.
  - Simulacra 7mo ago
    But there's a core problem with this, in many states doctors are legally forbidden to give nutrition advice. The academy of nutrition and dietetics has worked very hard to make it so that only dietitians can provide nutrition advice. Take Ohio for example, a medical doctor in Ohio is legally forbidden and actually in jeopardy of losing their license and going to jail if they were to provide nutrition advice without a dietetics license. Dietitians are not doctors, but the academy of nutrition and dietetics wants you to think they are.
    - secabeen 7mo ago
      Mmmm, regulatory capture and rent seeking. Will it ever end?
    - rootusrootus 7mo ago
      Aren't doctors actually exempted specifically from such regulations in almost all states? AFAIK they can actually give nutritional advice legally in nearly every jurisdiction in the US.
    - tzs 7mo ago
      > Dietitians are not doctors And doctors are not dietitians. Doctors in the US receive an average of under 20 hours of training in nutrition over four years of medical school. What little they do receive is often focused on nutrient deficiencies rather than on meal planning for health and chronic disease prevention. Less than 15% of residency programs include anything on nutrition. To become a registered dietician requires at least a Master's degree in dietetics or nutrition or a related field, and at least 1000 hours of supervised internships. PS: before any Europeans hold this up as an example of the poor US health care system, doctors in Europe average 24 hours of nutrition training.
  - hammock 7mo ago
- GenerWork 7mo ago
  To your first point, if you know where to look, you can get tens of vials of GLP-1s that have much higher dosing per vial for cheaper than you can get a third of the amount on the grey market. A lot of these sites even have purity testing to soothe consumers worries that they're getting garbage. For your third point, you have the FDA limiting HGH, yet you can buy the growth horomone releasing factor peptides (tesamorelin, sermorelin, ipamorelin) after doing a simple Google search. As for broscience, moving into peptides was a logical next step after exhausting anabolic steroid "research". In fact, I'd say that biohackers are actually behind the bros when it comes to trying various peptides out and documenting experiences.
  - Zetaphor 7mo ago
    Many of us would appreciate if you could share one of those reputable vendors with such cheap prices
    - chhxdjsj 7mo ago
      https://t.me/qsctgchannel https://t.me/qsctgchannel https://t.me/c/2680146932/9 https://t.me/c/2680146932/9
    - dotancohen 7mo ago
      My Gmail username is the same as my HN username, for anybody who needs a reliable source with lab test results.
- 7e 7mo ago
  The FDA didn’t push up clinical trial costs, thalidomide did.
  - mft_ 7mo ago
    So you are stating that there has been no change in how clinical trials are required to be run, and the associated costs, since the changes immediately following the thalidomide catastrophe?
- JumpCrisscross 7mo ago
  > prescription system into nothing more than a parasitic middleman/gatekeeper Agree. Unless it's addictive or in short supply, you should be able to buy it OTC.
Bender 7mo ago
It seems we are treating Peptides like drugs here. It's my opinion that amino acids regardless of how they are chained do not belong under and stricter regulation than food given I eat peptides every day from my food. Then again I do not believe in the concept of prescription drugs. Everything with a NDC code should be at the grocery store and I should be able to stock up on it without permission especially given how fragile global shipping is these days. Drugs risks do not enter into the picture given the fact I can buy ammonia and bleach along with a myriad of other dangerous compounds. Worse, I could crush up apple seeds from the veggie isle. One can also make just about anything using fourth thieves vinegar. Maybe put expensive high demand things like cocaine behind locked glass along with the underwear and condoms. As a side note more dangerous than any drug is stopping a prescription drug cold turkey. Watch what happens when global trade to/from China and India are cut off for a year. Attitudes will change.
- A_D_E_P_T 7mo ago
  > given I eat peptides every day from my food This is briefly addressed in the article, but basically it's one thing to eat a peptide and quite another thing to inject it. Your digestive system is extremely adroit at taking peptides and proteins and breaking them down into individual amino acids, which are then absorbed via "transporters" in the gut. (e.g. SLC6A14 for glutamate and cysteine.) If you eat insulin, absolutely nothing will happen. If you inject just a little bit too much, you're dead. So, generally: Ingested proteins/peptides aren't drug-like, whereas they can be extremely potent drugs if administered via injection. Granted, there are exceptions. If you accidentally get a drop of botox into your mouth, you'll be okay, but if you drink a vial, you'll be poisoned. And people have been trying to make orally-active peptides and proteins for decades, with some noteworthy successes, however few and far between in the general case.
  - Bender 7mo ago
    I agree with some of this. There are most certainly orally active peptides such as BPC-157 and its replacement PDA penta deca arginate that can repair the gut and still circulate throughout the body especially in those with leaky gut. People with leaky gut should be able to buy a clean source of BPC-157 or PDA without a prescription and without visiting dark alleys. It is very safe and tolerable. GLP's are all the rage these days. Doctors seem to be giving GLP peptides out like candy and those are injected. People are looking like zombies. That said if doctors are going to be so liberal with them I should be able to buy it in the grocery store and slap it down on the conveyor belt. Again I can buy things far more dangerous than any prescription drug. There are very dangerous supplements, some that are shilled heavily on youtube. For example, Glycine (for me specifically used without a specific process) is more dangerous than heroine and the vast majority of doctors would have no idea what I am talking about.
mlvljr 7mo ago
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nmbrskeptix 7mo ago
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bix6 7mo ago
I really enjoyed having to wait 30 seconds for Cloudflare to let me into this website.
- OhMeadhbh 7mo ago
  I think if you're a cloudflare customer they set a cookie in your browser that let's you bypass the waiting period. Just wait until next year when they show ads during the wait.
diath 7mo ago
> My patient is refusing a drug studied in 170,000 people because of side effects that a 124,000-person analysis just confirmed do not exist — while injecting a compound studied in 14 humans, from unregulated sources, based on the recommendation of someone who profits from selling it. She’s probably not the only one. And those using it believe they are “doing their own research.” Ok, and? At worst you waste a couple hundred dollars and deem the alternative therapy not worth it and go back to your doctor but I know dozens of people at my gym that used BPC 157 and TB 500 that fixed their chronic tendon/joint issues within weeks of starting the therapy that physios couldn't fix for years.
- orf 7mo ago
  You know dozens of people from a single place that have chronic tendon/joint issues?
  - ted_dunning 7mo ago
    Sure. He says that they commonly use steroids. It's no wonder they have degenerative joint disease.
  - diath 7mo ago
    Yes? These types of injuries are common among bodybuilders and powerlifters.
    - kube-system 7mo ago
      Pfft -- they're common among anyone over 30 who exercises!
      - JumpCrisscross 7mo ago
        > they're common among anyone over 30 who exercises They shouldn't be. If someone has chronic tendon or joint issues, that's something to discuss with a doctor and a trainer.
kylehotchkiss 7mo ago
With India getting generic GLP-1s, the tech to "print" peptides will probably see costs fall off a cliff, so we're probably only looking at the tip of the iceberg with the amount of damages the reddit biohacker bros will accomplish. Men especially are feeling a lot more lonely and image-conscious and there are peptides people claim make them taller[1] or muscular[2]. 1: https://www.reddit.com/r/endocrinology/comments/1jb2cce/growth_hormone_peptides_at_16_for_height_growth/ https://www.reddit.com/r/endocrinology/comments/1jb2cce/grow... 2: https://r2medicalclinic.com/best-muscle-growth-peptides https://r2medicalclinic.com/best-muscle-growth-peptides
- diath 7mo ago
  These peptides are already relatively cheap, here's one US domestic source: https://imgur.com/a/OXOkSdR https://imgur.com/a/OXOkSdR
  - GenerWork 7mo ago
    $120 for 10mg of reta is highway robbery.
    - deleted 7mo ago
      [deleted]
    - rootusrootus 7mo ago
      Yeah I'm always amazed at what they can get people to pay for individual vials. I buy kits of 24mg reta for ~280. And that's not the cheapest, for certain.
    - Auracle 7mo ago
      Pretty sure the last time I bought some it was more like $10 for 10mg.
tbojanin 7mo ago
I tried retatrutide for 10 weeks, here are my results: Before: 5'7, ~182lb Bench 1rm: 315 Squat: 5x10 225 Deadlift: 5x5 315 After: same height lol, 154lb Bench 1rm: 285 Squat: 5x10 205 Deadlift: 5x5 275 Suffered some anhedonia towards the end but that went away ~1wk after stopping. Overall pretty good, not any side effects. Definitely fixed my food craving problem. I didn't have a high intake of protein during the 10 weeks, so I suspect thats why I lost muscle mass :/
- twodave 7mo ago
  Did you work out during those 10 weeks any? TBH if you went from regular lifting to not for 10 weeks I'd expect a similar decrease in your lifting numbers (though not a .4lb/day weight loss of course)
  - tbojanin 7mo ago
    I worked out 6 days a week still, but swapped out 1 of my leg days for a run day (between 2-4 miles)
- hammock 7mo ago
  Those are sizable drops for 10 weeks unless you stopped lifting as well
  - tbojanin 7mo ago
    Mentioned above, but "I worked out 6 days a week still, but swapped out 1 of my leg days for a run day (between 2-4 miles)"
- cheald 7mo ago
  I used a combo of low-dose retatrutide, tesamorelin, and ipamorelin and lost about 15lb over 45 days, including 60% of my visceral fat, and put on 4lb of muscle, per before-and-after DEXA scans. I lifted regularly, ate well, and prioritized protein, and while I definitely under-ate protein, I was very pleased to find that I was able to increase muscle mass while cutting the fat. My visceral fat was the primary target here, since I'd been unable to get it to budge despite consistent training and diet. Very pleased.
olalonde 7mo ago
The author is missing a massive segment of that gray market: people who buy FDA-approved weight loss drugs (e.g., semaglutide or tirzepatide) at 2–5% of the brand-name price. This route carries some risk, but there are ways to mitigate it, such as performing third-party testing. I assume most people who do this couldn't realistically afford the brand-name drug anyway, making this their only viable treatment.
- __MatrixMan__ 7mo ago
  I imagine it's legally risky to buy a large quantity, test it, and then resell smaller quantities. That's a shame because the alternative is probably that some folks settle for products of dubious quality and end up getting hurt.
  - rootusrootus 7mo ago
    It probably is, but that does not stop people from effectively doing it. There are a number of groups that specialize in conducting group buys, doing a bunch of testing on randomized samples, and then shipping out the product to individuals. Also, if you plan to be on it a good long time, you can buy a bunch of kits yourself (a kit is 10 vials), run a bunch of tests, and then just have a nice stockpile that will last you years. The testing will likely cost as much or more than the product itself, but given how inexpensive the product is, you still come out way ahead financially.
  - GenerWork 7mo ago
    >I imagine it's legally risky to buy a large quantity, test it, and then resell smaller quantities It is illegal, but it doesn't stop people from doing it. In fact, if you don't have any sort of test results for your peptides people will absolutely avoid buying your wares until you have them. Purity and mg/ml are the 2 basic test results that any shop worth their stuff will have.
    - rootusrootus 7mo ago
      To be fair, most everyone I know who is buying on the gray market considers vendor tests to be minimally required, but still insufficient -- there is no assurance they tested the product they shipped to you. Plan on testing it yourself. I'm sure some people do trust nexaph enough, though, to not worry so much. Whether that trust is well placed, that is a separate discussion.
comrade1234 7mo ago
I know a couple of people that should know better (phds in biosciences but now doing corporate management) taking expensive weird Chinese peptides that would probably be better off if they did some cardio a few days per week and ate better.
- thefz 7mo ago
  Exercise because you enjoy it (and it provides countless benefits) but for weight loss it is not going to do anything. Diet alone is enough.
rootusrootus 7mo ago
I take a small issue with the claim that we don't test peptides. Some of us test them extensively before injecting. Granted, probably the same people who also understand how little science there is backing up most of the popular peptides today. I enjoy being able to buy my own GLP1s, however, at least those which have made it through phase III trials succesfully. As tempting as the claims are about things like BPC-157 and such ... no thanks, that is past my comfort level a good bit.
- ramraj07 7mo ago
  So you agree that this whole topic is in a sliding scale of lunacy, youre just on the saner side a bit?
cjbgkagh 7mo ago
Peptides are a revolution and you don't need to know how they work to know that they work (for various people for various conditions). There is a tension between empiricism and fundamentalism with much of medical science focusing on fundamentalism. Now with the ability to collect and search large amounts of empirical data and communicate it peer-to-peer people are picking up on a lot of things that work without knowing why they work. I think people are just going to circumvent the fundamentalist and chase after whatever works. I owe my health to early adoption of experimental peptides, I have life long ME/CFS and there is no known treatment for this nor is there any on the horizon. At least they finally have a diagnostic test and know it's not psychosomatic but I could have told them that from day 1. Most doctors are not researchers and have little understanding on statistics instead preferring to rely on discrete classifications and simple decision tress. As someone with hEDS from TNXB I am a walking bag of symptoms and yet not a single doctor could figure it out. I had to research it myself which involved post-doc level textbooks and research journals. I came across the work done by Prof. Khavinson (USSR) and it did appear to me that peptides were incredibly under-explored. Given the poor quality of life with ME/CFS I was willing to take serious risks so previous trials were helpful to give an idea on dosing and lethality, I went through most of the research peptides one by one. I actually waited on semaglutide a bit because I suspected there was a small minority who would have hyper sensitivity and I both expected that to appear in the data, which it did, and I expected to have hypersensitivity, which I did. Others who were less careful ended up with pretty bad gastroenteritis. Semaglutide has been the most effective and with it and a few others I am largely able to lead a normal life. I was getting gray market from the US but now I get it direct from China.
- dev_l1x_be 7mo ago
  Have you tried omega3? There were some improvements I was reading about.
  - cjbgkagh 7mo ago
    I have tried everything on just about every list of possible treatments, having been in the fortunate position to have made enough money that I can try things full time and being able to bypass doctors for access to medicine and being able to do my own research.
brcmthrowaway 7mo ago
I read the article but didn't get the tl;dr about peptides. What are they and what are they used for?
- stevenwoo 7mo ago
  Cut and paste from New Yorker: The human body produces thousands of peptides. Many are portions of proteins which send messages or regulate systems in the body, often in ways that scientists don’t fully understand. Researchers have known about some peptides for decades, and dozens have been turned into safe and effective drugs. The hormone insulin is a peptide that moves sugar from the bloodstream into cells; GLP-1, or glucagon-like peptide-1, spurs the pancreas to release insulin and slows the passage of food through the gut. (Peptides are usually defined as having about fifty amino acids or fewer; more than that and they’re proteins.) https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2026/04/13/why-are-people-injecting-themselves-with-peptides https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2026/04/13/why-are-people...
JumpCrisscross 7mo ago
> a patient who is discontinuing her statin therapy - very inadvisably, given the clinical presentation described - but is enthusiastic about “BPC-157” This feels new. I thought the methylene-blue-for-cancer types continued their medicine while taking other things as extras. Personally, I've swung over to the laissez-faire side of medicine. At the end of the day, if you're an adult, it's your body. You should be given the chance to educate yourself. But if you want to inject yourself with a prion, like, go for it. Maybe you won't fuck up your own research. (Marketing should be tightly regulated, possibly banned.)
- stouset 7mo ago
  > Personally, I've swung over to the laissez-faire side of medicine. Chesterton’s Fence rears its ugly head again. This is the same thing as vaccine skepticism (those diseases can’t be that bad, I never hear about them killing anyone these days) applied to a different context Arguing for modern reforms is one thing, but there’s a reason we have the FDA. Statistically, most individuals do not have the medical expertise or the desire or ability to wade through enough clinical data to make these sorts of decisions with any hope of good outcomes, particularly in the face of an entire Internet of people trying to push questionable substances on them.
- aucisson_masque 7mo ago
  Exactly my point of view. Medications are like drugs, if we failed to forbid it we might as well allow it but regulate it, aka make seller accountable for the purity.
- mrguyorama 7mo ago
  >I thought the methylene-blue-for-cancer types continued their medicine while taking other things as extras There's no way you don't know that for example Steve Jobs ignored his cancer until it killed him because of absurd beliefs about "health". Surely you know about cancer patients dying because they found someone who promised them a cure rather than their doctor offering them a 60% chance through immense pain and struggle. >Personally, I've swung over to the laissez-faire side of medicine. We had laissez-faire medicine. It cured almost no one and killed hundreds for no reason. We HAVE laissez-faire medicine. There's almost no regulation in the "Supplements" aisle. So why doesn't it work?
heurist 7mo ago
I'm not inclined to be a guinea pig for these. I suspect maybe later in my child's life they will have been proven long-term safe (or not). I'll be old or dead at that point. I'm really wary of putting anything not known to be standard food or medicine into my body.
- Jerrrrrrrry 7mo ago
  [flagged]
  - heurist 7mo ago
    You should not be downvoted for expressing your concerns.
    - scorpionfeet 7mo ago
      Didn’t express concerns. Just vaguebooked.
  - Silamoth 7mo ago
    Care to share what those “other things” you’re concerned about are? If you mean what I suspect you do, then this is a complete false equivalence. But it’s hard to evaluate when you don’t actually state your claim or concerns.
    - thefz 7mo ago
      Social media
shevy-java 7mo ago
> For a chemist, “peptide” has a pretty clear definition: any relatively short chain of amino acids, and when they get longer we go ahead and call them “proteins”, although the dividing line is a matter of personal opinion. So, it is not just chemist but molecular biologist too. And the above is also not entirely correct. Yes, the author refers to size as threshold, before something is called a "protein". But the term protein has additional meanings that a peptide does not automatically have. For instance, a protein typically has a specific 3D conformation. It may be "sticky" after degradation or unfolding, but for the most part a protein is something with a 3D structure. A peptide does not necessarily imply the same. A protein may also have several polypeptide chains - insulin is a simple example for that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin#Structure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin#Structure (A and B chain) > So the number of different possible peptides is just ridiculously huge. That's no surprise either - that's due to the code used. You add to the code, so of course length plays a role, as does the variety. There is a DNA->aminoacid mapping. The first has four possibilities per slot; the latter 20 (or more if you include e. g. selenocystein or pyrrolysine; and you have various post-translational modifications too, so you have more variety per slot). > For comparison, it has been about ten trillion seconds since Homo sapiens emerged as a separate species. The whole species concept is IMO outdated. It was created before people knew that DNA codes for the complexity in pretty much any species (excluding RNA viruses but they have reverse transcriptase, at the least some viruses, so ultimately RNA->DNA). > The other one (by Sarah Hood) relates all this to RFJ Jr.’s advocacy. The flip side of “the government shouldn’t be able to force me to vaccinate my kids” is “I should have the right to take whatever medicines I want to without the government getting in my way”. I don't see why that would be questionable. Would people do as Trump tells them to do? I would not. If you see Trump as a lobbyist, how many private interests may his government have? If they have a commercial interest then their statements may be biased. > You don’t have an LC/MS or an NMR machine in your garage, so you can’t be sure what it is you’re really injecting Right, so the whole system depends on trust. This is already a problem because you have to trust not only the government but ALL who were involved in scientific publishing. There were lies told in science too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retraction_in_academic_publishing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retraction_in_academic_publish...
ggm 7mo ago
I'm here for two probably contradictory comments. The first is collagen: I'd love to see Lowe's take on recent peer review which says boosting oral collagen does appear to show signs of improved joint pain and skin resilience. Obviously modulated through how protein deprived you are, but for older people, eating enough protein can be an issue: it's not rapidly absorbed so you need 3 squares a day to get to the higher numbers. Collagen powders and vitamin C (oj) at breakfast might kick start this. The second contradictory point is that this entire thread makes me want to shout GELL MAN AMNESIA because it's an exercise in otherwise intelligent people who can distinguish between anecdata, their personal experience and some cold hard facts in their core field, but not when it's self injecting unknown chemicals from China bought off-script.
- IsTom 7mo ago
  > you need 3 squares a day to get to the higher numbers. > Collagen powders In that case if you're eating collagen powder you could be eating just regular protein powder then?
- flexagoon 7mo ago
  For the first one, I assume you mean a systematic review, not a peer review? I guess you're talking about this one: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10180699/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10180699/ It has a Mechanism section which explains that when collagen is digested, one of the products of that is Gly-Pro-Hyp, which is what has the effects. I don't think that conflicts anything in this post?
  - staticassertion 7mo ago
    I assume they're referring to the brief bit in the post that indicates that oral ingestion leads to a breakdown that makes oral supplements of amino acids pointless. They say it very briefly and they don't really outright assert it, it's just a sort of implied aside.
    - A_D_E_P_T 7mo ago
      Sweeping statements in biochemistry must be made with caution. It is well known that there are some small peptides that are absorbed following oral administration. ...BPC-157 itself is said to be among this class. As are certain milk tripeptides: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactotripeptides https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactotripeptides Interestingly enough, those two, as well as Gly-Pro-Hyp, are proline/hydroxyproline-rich, which might suggest that proline-rich small peptides are resistant to degradation in the gut. Anyway, in general oral proteins and peptides are broken down prior to systemic absorption, but not always...
picafrost 7mo ago
[flagged]
- otherme123 7mo ago
  Extra points for people partying hard on shady synthetic drugs, but being actively anti-vax because government. Case in point, Miguel Bosé, a very well known spanish artist that spent the first 50 years of his life abusing everything except heroin (his own words), but now he is a vaccine negationist, for him and for his two children.
- keiferski 7mo ago
  It has a certain logic to it, and I think US tipping culture basically follows the same rules. Even if you almost always end up paying the bill + 20% tip, Americans like the idea that they could not pay the tip if the service was bad. The appearance of free action is appealing and preferable to being forced to pay the extra amount, even if you almost always pay the amount willingly anyway.
  - throwaway27448 7mo ago
    In my experience, everyone who defends tipping culture is defending not paying the tip. I don't buy this idea that someone likes tipping culture and still pays it. After all, you're free to tip anyone you want regardless of culture.
    - steveBK123 7mo ago
      The problem is it is so ingrained in US culture that switching to tip-free has generally failed where tried, even in pro-labor lefty hoods in blue cities. Numerous restaurants in NYC tried and flipped back over the last 10 years. Restauranteurs reported illogical / innumerate behavior where sales went down when they switched to untipped higher prices. https://www.eater.com/21398973/restaurant-no-tipping-movement-living-wage-future https://www.eater.com/21398973/restaurant-no-tipping-movemen... The only restaurants that it stuck were Japanese restaurants that cater primarily to Japanese ex-pats, because culturally its familiar to them.
staticassertion 7mo ago
I think it's disingenuous to frame this exclusively in terms of the people who are turning down medically approved options for unknown supplements. Dealing with doctors is kind of a pain in the ass. I was very sick a month ago and my doctor is pretty "anti antibiotics", he wanted me to go over for an in person check-in. This was after 10 days of having symptoms that I did everything reasonable to take care of. I got on a call with another doctor (at a perfectly reputable hospital) who immediately prescribed antibiotics. It took 5 days of antibiotics just to feel somewhat better - all while using saline rinses, showering, sleeping, eating properly, etc. I still have a lingering cough. I am very reluctant to take antibiotics unless it really feels necessary, this was easily the worst sinus infection of my adult life. My friend wanted to try out a weight loss medication. Their doctor refused because they felt that my friend hadn't tried hard enough without it. So they got some from another friend who hadn't ended their prescription because they also were worried of being cut off. They've lost weight, which has motivated them to exercise more, eat better, and are generally happier and healthier. From the article, > Unfortunately, point two is that we barely have any of these effects worked out - at least not to the degree that you would want before you start injecting them into your leg. This is what was said to a friend whose doctor took them off of one of those GLP medications, basically. They didn't have enough evidence to know the risks of continued use, even at lower doses. The reality is simply that there's a big gap right now between what people want and what people have access to. The supplement industry exists to fill that gap. Medical professionals can complain about users taking these peptides, but plenty of people are not "anti medicine" while still feeling underserved. If doctors aren't in a position to have these conversations, people will go to Youtube or wherever else to look for answers. Personally, I have mixed feelings about a number of medications requiring a prescription. I frankly do not see why my doctor is involved in me taking a drug unless it would be negligent to allow me to or if it would have community health impacts (ie: antibiotic resistant strains etc). I'm an adult, if I've been properly informed of risks, etc, then I'm inclined to say that it should be up to me to pay full price for some medication or not. I know plenty of people getting their GLP1 from compound pharmacies. None of them went their first, their doctors wouldn't give them the medication (sometimes they were just a pound under the BMI limit, often because they had been slowly losing weight) so they went elsewhere. These aren't anti-vaxxers who won't take their medication, they're people who want help and there's a gap that companies are taking advantage of. The medical establishment needs to find a way to address that. Right now the answer appears to be compound pharmacies and nurse practitioners. > In my own view (and it ain’t just me) you also have regulatory agencies to force people to show that their drugs actually have some benefit before they can sell them, too. But that’s going further and further out of fashion. Can’t get ahold of the New Hotness to inject into your upper thigh if there are a bunch of stick-in-the-mud folks asking for human data, infringing on your freedom and all. Many of us will be dead before there's a medically approved treatment for something. Hell, I got eye surgery before it was FDA approved - I'd probably be blind (or at least far worse off) if I'd waited the years it took. How many people taking supplements are "naturopaths" who reject modern medicine as opposed to just people who want to be healthier? I really wonder that.
schiho 7mo ago
A lot of people are left alone with their health-issues, if you live in Canada and can only see a doctor if you are about to die, people try to change their health situation outside the "regulatory" system. These aren't health worriers, they are desperate to get their lifes back in order. Are there risks? For sure, but similarly untreated pain can damage more, especially mentally.
- schneehertz 7mo ago
  Wouldn't it be better to use verified medicine? Even if a patient could see a doctor at any time, the doctor would not prescribe such unverified peptides to the patient
arjie 7mo ago
I used retatrutide for weight loss and went from 199.3 lbs to just under 175 lbs. I kept daily notes through the process. Here's a quick AI one-paragraph summary if you're curious: https://pastebin.com/XACNYKvs https://pastebin.com/XACNYKvs Overall I'm quite pleased with the effects and many of the properties of this treatment that people dislike are actually properties I was looking for. Essentially, for pharmacological interventions I want impermanent effects with a clear dose-response relationship and ideally minimal or no adaptation. So the fact that people gain weight when they go off it and then lose weight again when they go on it was good. That meant it's fairly easily undoable. The fact that the more you take the more you lose also was pretty good to know though for the majority of the time I took less than any tested dose (and the effects were quite strong on those). I did experience quite a bit of adaptation so I needed to up the dose until I was in the range tested by the end. I've been off it for a month now and been pretty much flat, but we've been traveling since I stopped and so a lot has changed (no more lifting, lots more eating, lots more walking). Rough cost for the retatrutide is $1.25/mg.
- EiZei 7mo ago
  > Rough cost for the retatrutide is $1.25/mg. Even with free healthcare that seems like a foolish place to save money when very widely used alternatives exist in the regulated market.
  - gruez 7mo ago
    >when very widely used alternatives exist in the regulated market. Which ones? Semiglutide costs orders of magnitude more.
    - kube-system 7mo ago
      op: > had access to free tirzepatide
  - briffle 7mo ago
    Ozempic in the US just had its price reduced to $499 for a pen with a few 2mg doses...
steveBK123 7mo ago
I think we are sort of in the worst of both worlds right now re: medicines/supplements/gray market. FDA approval is expensive slow process. Doctors train for a long time and then work 40+ years entire careers, some without a ton of continuing education. But then we have an entire gray market because enough legal and practical loopholes to drive a freight train through, such that people are self medicating with dubious substances of dubious origin of dubious purity sourced via dubious means. Even if peptides work, you have no idea what side effects they have, or if the ones you are taking are even real, not contaminated/tainted in some manner, etc. Given a lot of the hype comes from social media for otherwise healthy people to take them for lifestyle / augmentation reasons.. to me the risks still outweigh the rewards. Real solutions like regulatory reforms to find ways to bring down testing costs seem more important than reforms to make it easier to slap anything on the shelf at GNC as a completely untested “supplement”.
- throwaway2037 7mo ago
  > some without a ton of continuing education. Where did you get this idea? I did a simple, five second Google search and learned that on average, US doctors are required to complete about 50 hours of continuing education for each one- to two-year recert cycle. (On HN, I also hear similar complaints about public school teachers. It isn't true. Public school teachers are required to do similar continuing education.)
  - aduwah 7mo ago
    Not US, but the seminars to fill in the hours in my country were closer to legal bribes and/or holidays in often exotic places. They usually were provided/funded by the medicine lobby.
    - ottonormal 7mo ago
      In Germany, at least for Dentists, it is exactly like this. Many training events are, in fact, hardly any different from sales events.
jgalt212 7mo ago
Patent Medicine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_medicine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_medicine
illusive4080 7mo ago
Reminds me of some family members, all about organic, no seed oils, no plastics, no using 5G, no EMF, no fillers, no preservatives, no stabilizers, no emulsifiers, etc. And yet they use unhealthy amounts of avocado oil, consume unhealthy amounts of “good fats.” They discount caloric intake and solely focus on eating loads of what they consider to be good food.
elmean 7mo ago
The worst part that this article does not cover its kids and young adults who are sharing the "evidence" and "how to hide peptides from your parents".
RickJWagner 7mo ago
Cellular peptide cakes are delicious with mint frosting. I have it from good authority.
klustregrif 7mo ago
For the vast majority of people “peptides” is a new word and they assume it’s new science that does something new. It’s like if they had never before heard the term “pill” or “injection” and now someone is marketing it to them. So you have a enthusiastic family member going “omg, I got this amazing injection, it can cure cancer, make you look like the rock, cure baldness and fill your bank account all at the same time!” And you go “I doubt that” and they’ll refer you to all the amazing science on injecting things and how injections are used broadly in the health industry and can treat so many different things. And they are not exactly wrong in that connection, they are just dumb, and of cause a given injection being able to treat diabetes says nothing about injections in general and absolutely nothing about cheap foreign snake oil injections.
- nikitau 7mo ago
  I have the same feeling about the whole discussion. I know that colloquially we use terms like "protein" to refer to dietary protein rather than the class of mollecules. But the way "peptide" is used by all the bro/gal-science influencers that push them online makes it blatantly obvious that they have next to no idea what they're talking about.
mpreda 7mo ago
Given that many people experiment on themselves anyway, I feel it's a pity and a loss for science that the outcomes of those self-experiments are not collected and aggregated. The article itself raises the issue of "lack of clinical data", given that these substances are relativelly new. But the lack of data may originate from a certain stiffness, or lack of accessibility and high cost of clinical trials. An alternative source of information are these people who self-experiment, but unfortunatelly this information is mostly lost instead of being captured. How could this proposal work in practice? clearly the data would be noisy, contain some false reporting, biased, subjective etc. But statistical processing of a large number of reports (coming from hudreds of thousands or millions of self-reporting subjects) may still extract relevant scientific information; that we're dropping on the floor right now. An example: I'm experimenting with a radical diet. I keep observations for myself, but they're not shared with anybody and don't contribute to science. What the altervative would be: I would enroll on a web page, where I would describe the experiment I plan to do before I start it. I would be get a code for a blood/urine work for the "before" state, with the agreement that the results, anonimized, are shared with the platform. Weekly I would report on the platform observations, such as: got sick in this particular way, wheight variations, sleep eval, or any other changes. At the end, or periodically I would get new free blood/urine work with the results shared. Research institutes and pharma would get access to the data, to aggregate and denoise as they can to extract the latent information.
- butlike 7mo ago
  You REALLY don't want to open the door to "compulsory self-administration." You don't even want people to think about that door. For everyone else, there's clinical trials where you may get a $50 gift card if you're part of the test group.
- kjkjadksj 7mo ago
  The quality of data really are too poor. To get enough sampling to achieve sufficient power to overcome these issues would be a pipe dream imo.
Cluelessidoit 7mo ago
I’ve been taking peptides for 15 years….its so interesting see how the GLP-1 have make it “cool” or “okay” to use needles and now everyone is all of the sudden okay with it

266 points by A_D_E_P_T 7mo ago

Lowe has a point, but the FDA has painted itself into a corner by (a) forcing up the costs and the various bureaucratic demands associated with clinical trials, (b) allowing drug advertising , but then forcing those comical "may cause death" disclaimers, both of which have become totally ubiquitous, and (c) inconsistently following its own rules, and in some cases flouting its own rules. At this point, broscience is considered no less valid than actual clinical trials, and the FDA should blame itself for this. Not "human nature being what it is in this fallen world" in a sort of general or abstract sense. Another point I could raise is that telemedicine has turned the entire prescription system into nothing more than a parasitic middleman/gatekeeper. FDA reform is very badly necessary. That ought to come before harsher enforcement, and I think that much of the populace already intuitively understands this.

jmye 7mo ago
> Another point I could raise is that telemedicine has turned the entire prescription system into nothing more than a parasitic middleman/gatekeeper. I’m curious what you mean by this. I’m not sure what you mean by “prescription system” specifically.
- tastyfreeze 7mo ago
  Go to doctor, get prescription for restricted medicine, pick up prescription. If you can call up a teledoc and they give you a prescription based on your description why could you not just go buy the meds yourself without a prescription. You have essentially diagnosed yourself and just asked the doctor for permission to buy the drug you want.
  - jmye 7mo ago
    That’s… not how actual telemedicine works. That’s how jackasses “disrupt” healthcare for very specific drugs. Mostly birth control, ED meds, and various hair regrowth meds. It’s really clear that some of you are really mad about something you don’t understand.
- A_D_E_P_T 7mo ago
  I'll give you a case in point. This article was discussed the other day: > https://www.nytimes.com/2026/04/02/technology/ai-billion-dollar-company-medvi.html https://www.nytimes.com/2026/04/02/technology/ai-billion-dol... People want GLP-1 drugs. They can't get them without a prescription. They pay $$$ to a "telemedicine" "doctor", recite a list of well-known symptoms, and buy the prescription. The system is that you can't buy these drugs without the piece of paper, and the piece of paper is basically something that anybody can buy regardless of whether or not they actually need the drug. Wanting it is usually enough.
  - hombre_fatal 7mo ago
    I think access is a good thing. The issue isn't with telemedicine but the fact that there's a prescription wall for helpful meds like GLP-1 in a country where we've failed people by creating one of the worst food environments. Also, most doctor's visits aren't any different from getting it if you want it except it's gated on the mood/attitude of the doctor, maybe your ability to sell some sob story. And then you book a different doctor until you get it. Telemedicine just makes the process easier an arbitrary system.
    - kube-system 7mo ago
      GLP-1 prescriptions are easy to get in the US. It's filling the prescription that is the problem, because insurance rarely covers it and it is beyond the disposable income of most Americans. The prescription hurdle is absolutely necessary -- these are not drugs that anyone can safely take without guidance. It's the price that needs to be fixed.
      - hombre_fatal 7mo ago
        I know a lot of people on GLP-1 meds and even took a dose myself out of curiosity. You take a dose every two weeks. And if you accidentally double dose because you misread 1U to mean 1 dose, it just gives you some nausea. Are we going to pretend it's hard to take this drug now too? Or that the doctor has some magical insight into your getting-on? Remember to eat. That's it. I guess a few people might need the doctor to go "you're eating, right?" but I don't believe in infantilizing everyone over that.
- ai_critic 7mo ago
  I take certain medications--nothing interesting, nothing controlled, nothing abusable. I have to deal with a whole thing just to get refills, because my PCP forces me to come in every time--and even that is now just a telehealth call that is annoying. In Mexico, for meds like mine, you can just buy them at the pharmacy. There's no reason for all this nonsense. (Edit: same PCP refused to prescribe GLP-1s early, without any scientific or medical reason not to. Delayed my weightloss by months until I found a place that would.)
- pedalpete 7mo ago
  The "perscription system" used to be that you'd have to go see a doctor, the doctor knew who you were, and would make decisions on what prescriptions/medications you should be given. Due to drug advertising rules, the prescription system has been turned on its head, and the patient now goes to their doctor asking for a specific prescription. Telemedicine took advantage of this and has effectively removed the middleman (the doctor) in many cases and you just sign-up look at a person on a camera, and get your drugs sent to you.
  - jmye 7mo ago
    > Telemedicine took advantage of this and has effectively removed the middleman (the doctor) in many cases and you just sign-up look at a person on a camera, and get your drugs sent to you. This is only true for a handful of drugs that are basically OTC already (or that have OTC formulations). Additionally, telemedicine didn’t take advantage of drug advertising- that’s an odd assertion.
    - pedalpete 7mo ago
      The system changed from the doctor deciding what drugs you should take to the patient asking for the drug by name from the doctor. I think this enabled telemedicine to work in the way it does not. The patient says "I want wegovy" and the telemedicine platform says "ok, here you go". Would telehealth pill-pushers exist without this mentality?
- phil21 7mo ago
  > I’m curious what you mean by this. I’m not sure what you mean by “prescription system” specifically. They basically operate as a "pay for a prescription" service. Figure out what drug you want, google the drug name and telehealth. You will be marketed in a wink wink sort of manner over how easy it is to get them, just hours away! Then if you are not a total idiot, you answer certain questions in the right manner on the intake form, the doctor (usually NP/PA or similar for most things) will quickly run through that and expect you to answer correctly - perhaps guide you a bit if you don't. 5 minutes later you have a prescription in the web portal and it's sent to your pharmacy of choice. It really shows how the whole "permission slip" program is BS. I've used these services a couple times vs. my normal doctor just to save time and expense of an office visit. If I can click some buttons, have a call 30 minutes later, and be on my way to the pharmacy for $50 it's sometimes the path I take now vs. traditional route. Someone used to the traditional doctor/patient relationship thing and prescriptions being "holy" would be shocked at how easy and gamed it all is.
  - cycomanic 7mo ago
    Well that's a problem with the profit driven US health system (although admittedly other countries have similar problems to varying degrees) not prescriptions in general though? In particular the take home from this should be to make it more difficult to get the prescriptions not to do away with prescriptions.
cwmoore 7mo ago
When medicine ignores nutrition entirely, and nutrient supplements are still complete unknowns, you have to wonder who the FDA is working for.
- Simulacra 7mo ago
  But there's a core problem with this, in many states doctors are legally forbidden to give nutrition advice. The academy of nutrition and dietetics has worked very hard to make it so that only dietitians can provide nutrition advice. Take Ohio for example, a medical doctor in Ohio is legally forbidden and actually in jeopardy of losing their license and going to jail if they were to provide nutrition advice without a dietetics license. Dietitians are not doctors, but the academy of nutrition and dietetics wants you to think they are.
  - secabeen 7mo ago
    Mmmm, regulatory capture and rent seeking. Will it ever end?
  - rootusrootus 7mo ago
    Aren't doctors actually exempted specifically from such regulations in almost all states? AFAIK they can actually give nutritional advice legally in nearly every jurisdiction in the US.
  - tzs 7mo ago
    > Dietitians are not doctors And doctors are not dietitians. Doctors in the US receive an average of under 20 hours of training in nutrition over four years of medical school. What little they do receive is often focused on nutrient deficiencies rather than on meal planning for health and chronic disease prevention. Less than 15% of residency programs include anything on nutrition. To become a registered dietician requires at least a Master's degree in dietetics or nutrition or a related field, and at least 1000 hours of supervised internships. PS: before any Europeans hold this up as an example of the poor US health care system, doctors in Europe average 24 hours of nutrition training.
- hammock 7mo ago
GenerWork 7mo ago
To your first point, if you know where to look, you can get tens of vials of GLP-1s that have much higher dosing per vial for cheaper than you can get a third of the amount on the grey market. A lot of these sites even have purity testing to soothe consumers worries that they're getting garbage. For your third point, you have the FDA limiting HGH, yet you can buy the growth horomone releasing factor peptides (tesamorelin, sermorelin, ipamorelin) after doing a simple Google search. As for broscience, moving into peptides was a logical next step after exhausting anabolic steroid "research". In fact, I'd say that biohackers are actually behind the bros when it comes to trying various peptides out and documenting experiences.
- Zetaphor 7mo ago
  Many of us would appreciate if you could share one of those reputable vendors with such cheap prices
  - chhxdjsj 7mo ago
    https://t.me/qsctgchannel https://t.me/qsctgchannel https://t.me/c/2680146932/9 https://t.me/c/2680146932/9
  - dotancohen 7mo ago
    My Gmail username is the same as my HN username, for anybody who needs a reliable source with lab test results.
7e 7mo ago
The FDA didn’t push up clinical trial costs, thalidomide did.
- mft_ 7mo ago
  So you are stating that there has been no change in how clinical trials are required to be run, and the associated costs, since the changes immediately following the thalidomide catastrophe?
JumpCrisscross 7mo ago
> prescription system into nothing more than a parasitic middleman/gatekeeper Agree. Unless it's addictive or in short supply, you should be able to buy it OTC.

Bender 7mo ago

It seems we are treating Peptides like drugs here. It's my opinion that amino acids regardless of how they are chained do not belong under and stricter regulation than food given I eat peptides every day from my food. Then again I do not believe in the concept of prescription drugs. Everything with a NDC code should be at the grocery store and I should be able to stock up on it without permission especially given how fragile global shipping is these days. Drugs risks do not enter into the picture given the fact I can buy ammonia and bleach along with a myriad of other dangerous compounds. Worse, I could crush up apple seeds from the veggie isle. One can also make just about anything using fourth thieves vinegar. Maybe put expensive high demand things like cocaine behind locked glass along with the underwear and condoms. As a side note more dangerous than any drug is stopping a prescription drug cold turkey. Watch what happens when global trade to/from China and India are cut off for a year. Attitudes will change.

A_D_E_P_T 7mo ago
> given I eat peptides every day from my food This is briefly addressed in the article, but basically it's one thing to eat a peptide and quite another thing to inject it. Your digestive system is extremely adroit at taking peptides and proteins and breaking them down into individual amino acids, which are then absorbed via "transporters" in the gut. (e.g. SLC6A14 for glutamate and cysteine.) If you eat insulin, absolutely nothing will happen. If you inject just a little bit too much, you're dead. So, generally: Ingested proteins/peptides aren't drug-like, whereas they can be extremely potent drugs if administered via injection. Granted, there are exceptions. If you accidentally get a drop of botox into your mouth, you'll be okay, but if you drink a vial, you'll be poisoned. And people have been trying to make orally-active peptides and proteins for decades, with some noteworthy successes, however few and far between in the general case.
- Bender 7mo ago
  I agree with some of this. There are most certainly orally active peptides such as BPC-157 and its replacement PDA penta deca arginate that can repair the gut and still circulate throughout the body especially in those with leaky gut. People with leaky gut should be able to buy a clean source of BPC-157 or PDA without a prescription and without visiting dark alleys. It is very safe and tolerable. GLP's are all the rage these days. Doctors seem to be giving GLP peptides out like candy and those are injected. People are looking like zombies. That said if doctors are going to be so liberal with them I should be able to buy it in the grocery store and slap it down on the conveyor belt. Again I can buy things far more dangerous than any prescription drug. There are very dangerous supplements, some that are shilled heavily on youtube. For example, Glycine (for me specifically used without a specific process) is more dangerous than heroine and the vast majority of doctors would have no idea what I am talking about.

mlvljr 7mo ago

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nmbrskeptix 7mo ago

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bix6 7mo ago

I really enjoyed having to wait 30 seconds for Cloudflare to let me into this website.

OhMeadhbh 7mo ago
I think if you're a cloudflare customer they set a cookie in your browser that let's you bypass the waiting period. Just wait until next year when they show ads during the wait.

diath 7mo ago

> My patient is refusing a drug studied in 170,000 people because of side effects that a 124,000-person analysis just confirmed do not exist — while injecting a compound studied in 14 humans, from unregulated sources, based on the recommendation of someone who profits from selling it. She’s probably not the only one. And those using it believe they are “doing their own research.” Ok, and? At worst you waste a couple hundred dollars and deem the alternative therapy not worth it and go back to your doctor but I know dozens of people at my gym that used BPC 157 and TB 500 that fixed their chronic tendon/joint issues within weeks of starting the therapy that physios couldn't fix for years.

orf 7mo ago
You know dozens of people from a single place that have chronic tendon/joint issues?
- ted_dunning 7mo ago
  Sure. He says that they commonly use steroids. It's no wonder they have degenerative joint disease.
- diath 7mo ago
  Yes? These types of injuries are common among bodybuilders and powerlifters.
  - kube-system 7mo ago
    Pfft -- they're common among anyone over 30 who exercises!
    - JumpCrisscross 7mo ago
      > they're common among anyone over 30 who exercises They shouldn't be. If someone has chronic tendon or joint issues, that's something to discuss with a doctor and a trainer.

kylehotchkiss 7mo ago

With India getting generic GLP-1s, the tech to "print" peptides will probably see costs fall off a cliff, so we're probably only looking at the tip of the iceberg with the amount of damages the reddit biohacker bros will accomplish. Men especially are feeling a lot more lonely and image-conscious and there are peptides people claim make them taller[1] or muscular[2]. 1: https://www.reddit.com/r/endocrinology/comments/1jb2cce/growth_hormone_peptides_at_16_for_height_growth/ https://www.reddit.com/r/endocrinology/comments/1jb2cce/grow... 2: https://r2medicalclinic.com/best-muscle-growth-peptides https://r2medicalclinic.com/best-muscle-growth-peptides

diath 7mo ago
These peptides are already relatively cheap, here's one US domestic source: https://imgur.com/a/OXOkSdR https://imgur.com/a/OXOkSdR
- GenerWork 7mo ago
  $120 for 10mg of reta is highway robbery.
  - deleted 7mo ago
    [deleted]
  - rootusrootus 7mo ago
    Yeah I'm always amazed at what they can get people to pay for individual vials. I buy kits of 24mg reta for ~280. And that's not the cheapest, for certain.
  - Auracle 7mo ago
    Pretty sure the last time I bought some it was more like $10 for 10mg.

tbojanin 7mo ago

I tried retatrutide for 10 weeks, here are my results: Before: 5'7, ~182lb Bench 1rm: 315 Squat: 5x10 225 Deadlift: 5x5 315 After: same height lol, 154lb Bench 1rm: 285 Squat: 5x10 205 Deadlift: 5x5 275 Suffered some anhedonia towards the end but that went away ~1wk after stopping. Overall pretty good, not any side effects. Definitely fixed my food craving problem. I didn't have a high intake of protein during the 10 weeks, so I suspect thats why I lost muscle mass :/

twodave 7mo ago
Did you work out during those 10 weeks any? TBH if you went from regular lifting to not for 10 weeks I'd expect a similar decrease in your lifting numbers (though not a .4lb/day weight loss of course)
- tbojanin 7mo ago
  I worked out 6 days a week still, but swapped out 1 of my leg days for a run day (between 2-4 miles)
hammock 7mo ago
Those are sizable drops for 10 weeks unless you stopped lifting as well
- tbojanin 7mo ago
  Mentioned above, but "I worked out 6 days a week still, but swapped out 1 of my leg days for a run day (between 2-4 miles)"
cheald 7mo ago
I used a combo of low-dose retatrutide, tesamorelin, and ipamorelin and lost about 15lb over 45 days, including 60% of my visceral fat, and put on 4lb of muscle, per before-and-after DEXA scans. I lifted regularly, ate well, and prioritized protein, and while I definitely under-ate protein, I was very pleased to find that I was able to increase muscle mass while cutting the fat. My visceral fat was the primary target here, since I'd been unable to get it to budge despite consistent training and diet. Very pleased.

olalonde 7mo ago

The author is missing a massive segment of that gray market: people who buy FDA-approved weight loss drugs (e.g., semaglutide or tirzepatide) at 2–5% of the brand-name price. This route carries some risk, but there are ways to mitigate it, such as performing third-party testing. I assume most people who do this couldn't realistically afford the brand-name drug anyway, making this their only viable treatment.

__MatrixMan__ 7mo ago
I imagine it's legally risky to buy a large quantity, test it, and then resell smaller quantities. That's a shame because the alternative is probably that some folks settle for products of dubious quality and end up getting hurt.
- rootusrootus 7mo ago
  It probably is, but that does not stop people from effectively doing it. There are a number of groups that specialize in conducting group buys, doing a bunch of testing on randomized samples, and then shipping out the product to individuals. Also, if you plan to be on it a good long time, you can buy a bunch of kits yourself (a kit is 10 vials), run a bunch of tests, and then just have a nice stockpile that will last you years. The testing will likely cost as much or more than the product itself, but given how inexpensive the product is, you still come out way ahead financially.
- GenerWork 7mo ago
  >I imagine it's legally risky to buy a large quantity, test it, and then resell smaller quantities It is illegal, but it doesn't stop people from doing it. In fact, if you don't have any sort of test results for your peptides people will absolutely avoid buying your wares until you have them. Purity and mg/ml are the 2 basic test results that any shop worth their stuff will have.
  - rootusrootus 7mo ago
    To be fair, most everyone I know who is buying on the gray market considers vendor tests to be minimally required, but still insufficient -- there is no assurance they tested the product they shipped to you. Plan on testing it yourself. I'm sure some people do trust nexaph enough, though, to not worry so much. Whether that trust is well placed, that is a separate discussion.

comrade1234 7mo ago

I know a couple of people that should know better (phds in biosciences but now doing corporate management) taking expensive weird Chinese peptides that would probably be better off if they did some cardio a few days per week and ate better.

thefz 7mo ago
Exercise because you enjoy it (and it provides countless benefits) but for weight loss it is not going to do anything. Diet alone is enough.

rootusrootus 7mo ago

I take a small issue with the claim that we don't test peptides. Some of us test them extensively before injecting. Granted, probably the same people who also understand how little science there is backing up most of the popular peptides today. I enjoy being able to buy my own GLP1s, however, at least those which have made it through phase III trials succesfully. As tempting as the claims are about things like BPC-157 and such ... no thanks, that is past my comfort level a good bit.

ramraj07 7mo ago
So you agree that this whole topic is in a sliding scale of lunacy, youre just on the saner side a bit?

cjbgkagh 7mo ago

Peptides are a revolution and you don't need to know how they work to know that they work (for various people for various conditions). There is a tension between empiricism and fundamentalism with much of medical science focusing on fundamentalism. Now with the ability to collect and search large amounts of empirical data and communicate it peer-to-peer people are picking up on a lot of things that work without knowing why they work. I think people are just going to circumvent the fundamentalist and chase after whatever works. I owe my health to early adoption of experimental peptides, I have life long ME/CFS and there is no known treatment for this nor is there any on the horizon. At least they finally have a diagnostic test and know it's not psychosomatic but I could have told them that from day 1. Most doctors are not researchers and have little understanding on statistics instead preferring to rely on discrete classifications and simple decision tress. As someone with hEDS from TNXB I am a walking bag of symptoms and yet not a single doctor could figure it out. I had to research it myself which involved post-doc level textbooks and research journals. I came across the work done by Prof. Khavinson (USSR) and it did appear to me that peptides were incredibly under-explored. Given the poor quality of life with ME/CFS I was willing to take serious risks so previous trials were helpful to give an idea on dosing and lethality, I went through most of the research peptides one by one. I actually waited on semaglutide a bit because I suspected there was a small minority who would have hyper sensitivity and I both expected that to appear in the data, which it did, and I expected to have hypersensitivity, which I did. Others who were less careful ended up with pretty bad gastroenteritis. Semaglutide has been the most effective and with it and a few others I am largely able to lead a normal life. I was getting gray market from the US but now I get it direct from China.

dev_l1x_be 7mo ago
Have you tried omega3? There were some improvements I was reading about.
- cjbgkagh 7mo ago
  I have tried everything on just about every list of possible treatments, having been in the fortunate position to have made enough money that I can try things full time and being able to bypass doctors for access to medicine and being able to do my own research.

brcmthrowaway 7mo ago

I read the article but didn't get the tl;dr about peptides. What are they and what are they used for?

stevenwoo 7mo ago
Cut and paste from New Yorker: The human body produces thousands of peptides. Many are portions of proteins which send messages or regulate systems in the body, often in ways that scientists don’t fully understand. Researchers have known about some peptides for decades, and dozens have been turned into safe and effective drugs. The hormone insulin is a peptide that moves sugar from the bloodstream into cells; GLP-1, or glucagon-like peptide-1, spurs the pancreas to release insulin and slows the passage of food through the gut. (Peptides are usually defined as having about fifty amino acids or fewer; more than that and they’re proteins.) https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2026/04/13/why-are-people-injecting-themselves-with-peptides https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2026/04/13/why-are-people...

JumpCrisscross 7mo ago

> a patient who is discontinuing her statin therapy - very inadvisably, given the clinical presentation described - but is enthusiastic about “BPC-157” This feels new. I thought the methylene-blue-for-cancer types continued their medicine while taking other things as extras. Personally, I've swung over to the laissez-faire side of medicine. At the end of the day, if you're an adult, it's your body. You should be given the chance to educate yourself. But if you want to inject yourself with a prion, like, go for it. Maybe you won't fuck up your own research. (Marketing should be tightly regulated, possibly banned.)

stouset 7mo ago
> Personally, I've swung over to the laissez-faire side of medicine. Chesterton’s Fence rears its ugly head again. This is the same thing as vaccine skepticism (those diseases can’t be that bad, I never hear about them killing anyone these days) applied to a different context Arguing for modern reforms is one thing, but there’s a reason we have the FDA. Statistically, most individuals do not have the medical expertise or the desire or ability to wade through enough clinical data to make these sorts of decisions with any hope of good outcomes, particularly in the face of an entire Internet of people trying to push questionable substances on them.
aucisson_masque 7mo ago
Exactly my point of view. Medications are like drugs, if we failed to forbid it we might as well allow it but regulate it, aka make seller accountable for the purity.
mrguyorama 7mo ago
>I thought the methylene-blue-for-cancer types continued their medicine while taking other things as extras There's no way you don't know that for example Steve Jobs ignored his cancer until it killed him because of absurd beliefs about "health". Surely you know about cancer patients dying because they found someone who promised them a cure rather than their doctor offering them a 60% chance through immense pain and struggle. >Personally, I've swung over to the laissez-faire side of medicine. We had laissez-faire medicine. It cured almost no one and killed hundreds for no reason. We HAVE laissez-faire medicine. There's almost no regulation in the "Supplements" aisle. So why doesn't it work?

heurist 7mo ago

I'm not inclined to be a guinea pig for these. I suspect maybe later in my child's life they will have been proven long-term safe (or not). I'll be old or dead at that point. I'm really wary of putting anything not known to be standard food or medicine into my body.

Jerrrrrrrry 7mo ago
[flagged]
- heurist 7mo ago
  You should not be downvoted for expressing your concerns.
  - scorpionfeet 7mo ago
    Didn’t express concerns. Just vaguebooked.
- Silamoth 7mo ago
  Care to share what those “other things” you’re concerned about are? If you mean what I suspect you do, then this is a complete false equivalence. But it’s hard to evaluate when you don’t actually state your claim or concerns.
  - thefz 7mo ago
    Social media

shevy-java 7mo ago

> For a chemist, “peptide” has a pretty clear definition: any relatively short chain of amino acids, and when they get longer we go ahead and call them “proteins”, although the dividing line is a matter of personal opinion. So, it is not just chemist but molecular biologist too. And the above is also not entirely correct. Yes, the author refers to size as threshold, before something is called a "protein". But the term protein has additional meanings that a peptide does not automatically have. For instance, a protein typically has a specific 3D conformation. It may be "sticky" after degradation or unfolding, but for the most part a protein is something with a 3D structure. A peptide does not necessarily imply the same. A protein may also have several polypeptide chains - insulin is a simple example for that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin#Structure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin#Structure (A and B chain) > So the number of different possible peptides is just ridiculously huge. That's no surprise either - that's due to the code used. You add to the code, so of course length plays a role, as does the variety. There is a DNA->aminoacid mapping. The first has four possibilities per slot; the latter 20 (or more if you include e. g. selenocystein or pyrrolysine; and you have various post-translational modifications too, so you have more variety per slot). > For comparison, it has been about ten trillion seconds since Homo sapiens emerged as a separate species. The whole species concept is IMO outdated. It was created before people knew that DNA codes for the complexity in pretty much any species (excluding RNA viruses but they have reverse transcriptase, at the least some viruses, so ultimately RNA->DNA). > The other one (by Sarah Hood) relates all this to RFJ Jr.’s advocacy. The flip side of “the government shouldn’t be able to force me to vaccinate my kids” is “I should have the right to take whatever medicines I want to without the government getting in my way”. I don't see why that would be questionable. Would people do as Trump tells them to do? I would not. If you see Trump as a lobbyist, how many private interests may his government have? If they have a commercial interest then their statements may be biased. > You don’t have an LC/MS or an NMR machine in your garage, so you can’t be sure what it is you’re really injecting Right, so the whole system depends on trust. This is already a problem because you have to trust not only the government but ALL who were involved in scientific publishing. There were lies told in science too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retraction_in_academic_publishing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retraction_in_academic_publish...

ggm 7mo ago

I'm here for two probably contradictory comments. The first is collagen: I'd love to see Lowe's take on recent peer review which says boosting oral collagen does appear to show signs of improved joint pain and skin resilience. Obviously modulated through how protein deprived you are, but for older people, eating enough protein can be an issue: it's not rapidly absorbed so you need 3 squares a day to get to the higher numbers. Collagen powders and vitamin C (oj) at breakfast might kick start this. The second contradictory point is that this entire thread makes me want to shout GELL MAN AMNESIA because it's an exercise in otherwise intelligent people who can distinguish between anecdata, their personal experience and some cold hard facts in their core field, but not when it's self injecting unknown chemicals from China bought off-script.

IsTom 7mo ago
> you need 3 squares a day to get to the higher numbers. > Collagen powders In that case if you're eating collagen powder you could be eating just regular protein powder then?
flexagoon 7mo ago
For the first one, I assume you mean a systematic review, not a peer review? I guess you're talking about this one: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10180699/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10180699/ It has a Mechanism section which explains that when collagen is digested, one of the products of that is Gly-Pro-Hyp, which is what has the effects. I don't think that conflicts anything in this post?
- staticassertion 7mo ago
  I assume they're referring to the brief bit in the post that indicates that oral ingestion leads to a breakdown that makes oral supplements of amino acids pointless. They say it very briefly and they don't really outright assert it, it's just a sort of implied aside.
  - A_D_E_P_T 7mo ago
    Sweeping statements in biochemistry must be made with caution. It is well known that there are some small peptides that are absorbed following oral administration. ...BPC-157 itself is said to be among this class. As are certain milk tripeptides: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactotripeptides https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactotripeptides Interestingly enough, those two, as well as Gly-Pro-Hyp, are proline/hydroxyproline-rich, which might suggest that proline-rich small peptides are resistant to degradation in the gut. Anyway, in general oral proteins and peptides are broken down prior to systemic absorption, but not always...

picafrost 7mo ago

[flagged]

otherme123 7mo ago
Extra points for people partying hard on shady synthetic drugs, but being actively anti-vax because government. Case in point, Miguel Bosé, a very well known spanish artist that spent the first 50 years of his life abusing everything except heroin (his own words), but now he is a vaccine negationist, for him and for his two children.
keiferski 7mo ago
It has a certain logic to it, and I think US tipping culture basically follows the same rules. Even if you almost always end up paying the bill + 20% tip, Americans like the idea that they could not pay the tip if the service was bad. The appearance of free action is appealing and preferable to being forced to pay the extra amount, even if you almost always pay the amount willingly anyway.
- throwaway27448 7mo ago
  In my experience, everyone who defends tipping culture is defending not paying the tip. I don't buy this idea that someone likes tipping culture and still pays it. After all, you're free to tip anyone you want regardless of culture.
  - steveBK123 7mo ago
    The problem is it is so ingrained in US culture that switching to tip-free has generally failed where tried, even in pro-labor lefty hoods in blue cities. Numerous restaurants in NYC tried and flipped back over the last 10 years. Restauranteurs reported illogical / innumerate behavior where sales went down when they switched to untipped higher prices. https://www.eater.com/21398973/restaurant-no-tipping-movement-living-wage-future https://www.eater.com/21398973/restaurant-no-tipping-movemen... The only restaurants that it stuck were Japanese restaurants that cater primarily to Japanese ex-pats, because culturally its familiar to them.

staticassertion 7mo ago

I think it's disingenuous to frame this exclusively in terms of the people who are turning down medically approved options for unknown supplements. Dealing with doctors is kind of a pain in the ass. I was very sick a month ago and my doctor is pretty "anti antibiotics", he wanted me to go over for an in person check-in. This was after 10 days of having symptoms that I did everything reasonable to take care of. I got on a call with another doctor (at a perfectly reputable hospital) who immediately prescribed antibiotics. It took 5 days of antibiotics just to feel somewhat better - all while using saline rinses, showering, sleeping, eating properly, etc. I still have a lingering cough. I am very reluctant to take antibiotics unless it really feels necessary, this was easily the worst sinus infection of my adult life. My friend wanted to try out a weight loss medication. Their doctor refused because they felt that my friend hadn't tried hard enough without it. So they got some from another friend who hadn't ended their prescription because they also were worried of being cut off. They've lost weight, which has motivated them to exercise more, eat better, and are generally happier and healthier. From the article, > Unfortunately, point two is that we barely have any of these effects worked out - at least not to the degree that you would want before you start injecting them into your leg. This is what was said to a friend whose doctor took them off of one of those GLP medications, basically. They didn't have enough evidence to know the risks of continued use, even at lower doses. The reality is simply that there's a big gap right now between what people want and what people have access to. The supplement industry exists to fill that gap. Medical professionals can complain about users taking these peptides, but plenty of people are not "anti medicine" while still feeling underserved. If doctors aren't in a position to have these conversations, people will go to Youtube or wherever else to look for answers. Personally, I have mixed feelings about a number of medications requiring a prescription. I frankly do not see why my doctor is involved in me taking a drug unless it would be negligent to allow me to or if it would have community health impacts (ie: antibiotic resistant strains etc). I'm an adult, if I've been properly informed of risks, etc, then I'm inclined to say that it should be up to me to pay full price for some medication or not. I know plenty of people getting their GLP1 from compound pharmacies. None of them went their first, their doctors wouldn't give them the medication (sometimes they were just a pound under the BMI limit, often because they had been slowly losing weight) so they went elsewhere. These aren't anti-vaxxers who won't take their medication, they're people who want help and there's a gap that companies are taking advantage of. The medical establishment needs to find a way to address that. Right now the answer appears to be compound pharmacies and nurse practitioners. > In my own view (and it ain’t just me) you also have regulatory agencies to force people to show that their drugs actually have some benefit before they can sell them, too. But that’s going further and further out of fashion. Can’t get ahold of the New Hotness to inject into your upper thigh if there are a bunch of stick-in-the-mud folks asking for human data, infringing on your freedom and all. Many of us will be dead before there's a medically approved treatment for something. Hell, I got eye surgery before it was FDA approved - I'd probably be blind (or at least far worse off) if I'd waited the years it took. How many people taking supplements are "naturopaths" who reject modern medicine as opposed to just people who want to be healthier? I really wonder that.

schiho 7mo ago

A lot of people are left alone with their health-issues, if you live in Canada and can only see a doctor if you are about to die, people try to change their health situation outside the "regulatory" system. These aren't health worriers, they are desperate to get their lifes back in order. Are there risks? For sure, but similarly untreated pain can damage more, especially mentally.

schneehertz 7mo ago
Wouldn't it be better to use verified medicine? Even if a patient could see a doctor at any time, the doctor would not prescribe such unverified peptides to the patient

arjie 7mo ago

I used retatrutide for weight loss and went from 199.3 lbs to just under 175 lbs. I kept daily notes through the process. Here's a quick AI one-paragraph summary if you're curious: https://pastebin.com/XACNYKvs https://pastebin.com/XACNYKvs Overall I'm quite pleased with the effects and many of the properties of this treatment that people dislike are actually properties I was looking for. Essentially, for pharmacological interventions I want impermanent effects with a clear dose-response relationship and ideally minimal or no adaptation. So the fact that people gain weight when they go off it and then lose weight again when they go on it was good. That meant it's fairly easily undoable. The fact that the more you take the more you lose also was pretty good to know though for the majority of the time I took less than any tested dose (and the effects were quite strong on those). I did experience quite a bit of adaptation so I needed to up the dose until I was in the range tested by the end. I've been off it for a month now and been pretty much flat, but we've been traveling since I stopped and so a lot has changed (no more lifting, lots more eating, lots more walking). Rough cost for the retatrutide is $1.25/mg.

EiZei 7mo ago
> Rough cost for the retatrutide is $1.25/mg. Even with free healthcare that seems like a foolish place to save money when very widely used alternatives exist in the regulated market.
- gruez 7mo ago
  >when very widely used alternatives exist in the regulated market. Which ones? Semiglutide costs orders of magnitude more.
  - kube-system 7mo ago
    op: > had access to free tirzepatide
- briffle 7mo ago
  Ozempic in the US just had its price reduced to $499 for a pen with a few 2mg doses...

steveBK123 7mo ago

I think we are sort of in the worst of both worlds right now re: medicines/supplements/gray market. FDA approval is expensive slow process. Doctors train for a long time and then work 40+ years entire careers, some without a ton of continuing education. But then we have an entire gray market because enough legal and practical loopholes to drive a freight train through, such that people are self medicating with dubious substances of dubious origin of dubious purity sourced via dubious means. Even if peptides work, you have no idea what side effects they have, or if the ones you are taking are even real, not contaminated/tainted in some manner, etc. Given a lot of the hype comes from social media for otherwise healthy people to take them for lifestyle / augmentation reasons.. to me the risks still outweigh the rewards. Real solutions like regulatory reforms to find ways to bring down testing costs seem more important than reforms to make it easier to slap anything on the shelf at GNC as a completely untested “supplement”.

throwaway2037 7mo ago
> some without a ton of continuing education. Where did you get this idea? I did a simple, five second Google search and learned that on average, US doctors are required to complete about 50 hours of continuing education for each one- to two-year recert cycle. (On HN, I also hear similar complaints about public school teachers. It isn't true. Public school teachers are required to do similar continuing education.)
- aduwah 7mo ago
  Not US, but the seminars to fill in the hours in my country were closer to legal bribes and/or holidays in often exotic places. They usually were provided/funded by the medicine lobby.
  - ottonormal 7mo ago
    In Germany, at least for Dentists, it is exactly like this. Many training events are, in fact, hardly any different from sales events.

jgalt212 7mo ago

Patent Medicine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_medicine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_medicine

illusive4080 7mo ago

Reminds me of some family members, all about organic, no seed oils, no plastics, no using 5G, no EMF, no fillers, no preservatives, no stabilizers, no emulsifiers, etc. And yet they use unhealthy amounts of avocado oil, consume unhealthy amounts of “good fats.” They discount caloric intake and solely focus on eating loads of what they consider to be good food.

elmean 7mo ago

The worst part that this article does not cover its kids and young adults who are sharing the "evidence" and "how to hide peptides from your parents".

RickJWagner 7mo ago

Cellular peptide cakes are delicious with mint frosting. I have it from good authority.

klustregrif 7mo ago

For the vast majority of people “peptides” is a new word and they assume it’s new science that does something new. It’s like if they had never before heard the term “pill” or “injection” and now someone is marketing it to them. So you have a enthusiastic family member going “omg, I got this amazing injection, it can cure cancer, make you look like the rock, cure baldness and fill your bank account all at the same time!” And you go “I doubt that” and they’ll refer you to all the amazing science on injecting things and how injections are used broadly in the health industry and can treat so many different things. And they are not exactly wrong in that connection, they are just dumb, and of cause a given injection being able to treat diabetes says nothing about injections in general and absolutely nothing about cheap foreign snake oil injections.

nikitau 7mo ago
I have the same feeling about the whole discussion. I know that colloquially we use terms like "protein" to refer to dietary protein rather than the class of mollecules. But the way "peptide" is used by all the bro/gal-science influencers that push them online makes it blatantly obvious that they have next to no idea what they're talking about.

mpreda 7mo ago

Given that many people experiment on themselves anyway, I feel it's a pity and a loss for science that the outcomes of those self-experiments are not collected and aggregated. The article itself raises the issue of "lack of clinical data", given that these substances are relativelly new. But the lack of data may originate from a certain stiffness, or lack of accessibility and high cost of clinical trials. An alternative source of information are these people who self-experiment, but unfortunatelly this information is mostly lost instead of being captured. How could this proposal work in practice? clearly the data would be noisy, contain some false reporting, biased, subjective etc. But statistical processing of a large number of reports (coming from hudreds of thousands or millions of self-reporting subjects) may still extract relevant scientific information; that we're dropping on the floor right now. An example: I'm experimenting with a radical diet. I keep observations for myself, but they're not shared with anybody and don't contribute to science. What the altervative would be: I would enroll on a web page, where I would describe the experiment I plan to do before I start it. I would be get a code for a blood/urine work for the "before" state, with the agreement that the results, anonimized, are shared with the platform. Weekly I would report on the platform observations, such as: got sick in this particular way, wheight variations, sleep eval, or any other changes. At the end, or periodically I would get new free blood/urine work with the results shared. Research institutes and pharma would get access to the data, to aggregate and denoise as they can to extract the latent information.

butlike 7mo ago
You REALLY don't want to open the door to "compulsory self-administration." You don't even want people to think about that door. For everyone else, there's clinical trials where you may get a $50 gift card if you're part of the test group.
kjkjadksj 7mo ago
The quality of data really are too poor. To get enough sampling to achieve sufficient power to overcome these issues would be a pipe dream imo.

Cluelessidoit 7mo ago

I’ve been taking peptides for 15 years….its so interesting see how the GLP-1 have make it “cool” or “okay” to use needles and now everyone is all of the sudden okay with it