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No. For all practical purposes, Chinese cars are perfectly fine for most consumers. Since you cannot beat China on manufacturing costs, this war is already lost

by amelius 7mo ago

No. For all practical purposes, Chinese cars are perfectly fine for most consumers. Since you cannot beat China on manufacturing costs, this war is already lost. Musk or no Musk.

adjejmxbdjdn 7mo ago
There is no reason Chinese EVs couldn’t have been beaten on cost. The labor/environmental costs of car manufacturing is relatively low and more than made up in the cost of shipping cars. One example of this was the number of foreign car manufacturers that were relocating manufacturing to the NAFTA region to serve the U.S. car market even before the tariff nonsense. The area where China might have an edge is batteries cost. I’m not convinced that’s the case but even if we assume it is, it’s irrelevant because Chinese battery companies are largely not vertically integrated with the automakers and have been selling those batteries to non Chinese automakers at the same rates in an open market. The reason Chinese EVs are cheaper is plain and simple competition. Some of those price advantages will disappear as Chinese companies need to start showing profits, but a lot of those won’t because they were the result of genuine innovation driven by the tremendously competitive market and the economies of scale that were rapidly created. Keeping that in mind, while a lot of Tesla’s missed opportunities are self owns, the larger problem ultimately was the lack of govt support in developing a competitive ecosystem in the US.
- jauntywundrkind 7mo ago
  I like your pretty optimistic take. I'm not convinced but I want to believe, and that's an interesting take. One critical correction though: BYD makes 16% of the world's batteries. And makes cars. So there is vertical integration in play. https://cnevpost.com/2026/02/04/global-ev-battery-market-share-2025/ https://cnevpost.com/2026/02/04/global-ev-battery-market-sha... Ford and Stellantis are meanwhile busy trying to partner with Chinese companies, to make their own battery factories. Even though it seems like maybe they'll end up making more batteries for stationary power than for vehicles.
- xnx 7mo ago
  > The labor/environmental costs of car manufacturing is relatively low Not for union manufacturers. $1500 of the cost of every GM car is healthcare.
- nixon_why69 7mo ago
  > Chinese battery companies are largely not vertically integrated with the automakers BYD was a battery company first and expanded into cars
whizzter 7mo ago
Chineese phonemakers exist yet Apple pulls in a significant portion of profits due to their _halo_ allowing them to sell at a higher price point. Tesla had that, all Musk had to do was refrain himself from waving his hand around in that certain fashion. New registrations in Sweden for the past 3 years, Sweden alone would've probably absorbed about 14000 cars of that unsold stock. 2023 20388 341835 0,0596428101276932 (5.96%) 2024 21894 314485 0,0696185827622939 (6.96%) 2025 7254 314426 0,0230706112089967 (2.31%) 2026 2849 72525 0,0392830058600483 (3.93%) (Sales in 2026 were low until March 2026, Musk probably gotta thank Trump for oil-prices jumping up enough to move the needle again) The worst news for Tesla isn't the sales though, with "Texas-like" distances in Sweden (and Norway and Finland) there was a perception that only Tesla cars could properly handle the distances without getting too much battery angst. When people started looking around they realized that the other carmakers were getting their shit together and could actually deliver cars that handled distances well enough.
- amelius 7mo ago
  > Chineese phonemakers exist yet Apple pulls in a significant portion of profits due to their _halo_ allowing them to sell at a higher price point. The difference is that most customers have the financial wiggle room to buy a more expensive phone. With cars this is an entirely different story because cars are the most expensive things people own (besides a house). For most people it holds that a car should just get them from A to B. The money for anything more fancy is better spent on something else. There is a reason Apple is not in the car business.
  - senordevnyc 7mo ago
    And yet the average price paid for a new car is up to $50k. Americans definitely aren’t just buying a basic car to get them from A to B.
- bulbar 7mo ago
  Buying a Tesla was already considered edgy in some demographics, but doing that famous fascist gesture because you feel powerful definitely crossed a line as far as Europeans are concerned.
comfysocks 7mo ago
Yeah, EVs are completely mundane now. Not sexy enough of a story to justify the high PE ratios anymore. I think this is the reason for the weird pivot to humanoid robots and for taking SpaceX public even though he originally said he wouldn’t. Better story for the investors than EVs.

by amelius 7mo ago

No. For all practical purposes, Chinese cars are perfectly fine for most consumers. Since you cannot beat China on manufacturing costs, this war is already lost. Musk or no Musk.

adjejmxbdjdn 7mo ago

There is no reason Chinese EVs couldn’t have been beaten on cost. The labor/environmental costs of car manufacturing is relatively low and more than made up in the cost of shipping cars. One example of this was the number of foreign car manufacturers that were relocating manufacturing to the NAFTA region to serve the U.S. car market even before the tariff nonsense. The area where China might have an edge is batteries cost. I’m not convinced that’s the case but even if we assume it is, it’s irrelevant because Chinese battery companies are largely not vertically integrated with the automakers and have been selling those batteries to non Chinese automakers at the same rates in an open market. The reason Chinese EVs are cheaper is plain and simple competition. Some of those price advantages will disappear as Chinese companies need to start showing profits, but a lot of those won’t because they were the result of genuine innovation driven by the tremendously competitive market and the economies of scale that were rapidly created. Keeping that in mind, while a lot of Tesla’s missed opportunities are self owns, the larger problem ultimately was the lack of govt support in developing a competitive ecosystem in the US.

jauntywundrkind 7mo ago
I like your pretty optimistic take. I'm not convinced but I want to believe, and that's an interesting take. One critical correction though: BYD makes 16% of the world's batteries. And makes cars. So there is vertical integration in play. https://cnevpost.com/2026/02/04/global-ev-battery-market-share-2025/ https://cnevpost.com/2026/02/04/global-ev-battery-market-sha... Ford and Stellantis are meanwhile busy trying to partner with Chinese companies, to make their own battery factories. Even though it seems like maybe they'll end up making more batteries for stationary power than for vehicles.
xnx 7mo ago
> The labor/environmental costs of car manufacturing is relatively low Not for union manufacturers. $1500 of the cost of every GM car is healthcare.
nixon_why69 7mo ago
> Chinese battery companies are largely not vertically integrated with the automakers BYD was a battery company first and expanded into cars

whizzter 7mo ago

Chineese phonemakers exist yet Apple pulls in a significant portion of profits due to their _halo_ allowing them to sell at a higher price point. Tesla had that, all Musk had to do was refrain himself from waving his hand around in that certain fashion. New registrations in Sweden for the past 3 years, Sweden alone would've probably absorbed about 14000 cars of that unsold stock. 2023 20388 341835 0,0596428101276932 (5.96%) 2024 21894 314485 0,0696185827622939 (6.96%) 2025 7254 314426 0,0230706112089967 (2.31%) 2026 2849 72525 0,0392830058600483 (3.93%) (Sales in 2026 were low until March 2026, Musk probably gotta thank Trump for oil-prices jumping up enough to move the needle again) The worst news for Tesla isn't the sales though, with "Texas-like" distances in Sweden (and Norway and Finland) there was a perception that only Tesla cars could properly handle the distances without getting too much battery angst. When people started looking around they realized that the other carmakers were getting their shit together and could actually deliver cars that handled distances well enough.

amelius 7mo ago
> Chineese phonemakers exist yet Apple pulls in a significant portion of profits due to their _halo_ allowing them to sell at a higher price point. The difference is that most customers have the financial wiggle room to buy a more expensive phone. With cars this is an entirely different story because cars are the most expensive things people own (besides a house). For most people it holds that a car should just get them from A to B. The money for anything more fancy is better spent on something else. There is a reason Apple is not in the car business.
- senordevnyc 7mo ago
  And yet the average price paid for a new car is up to $50k. Americans definitely aren’t just buying a basic car to get them from A to B.
bulbar 7mo ago
Buying a Tesla was already considered edgy in some demographics, but doing that famous fascist gesture because you feel powerful definitely crossed a line as far as Europeans are concerned.

comfysocks 7mo ago

Yeah, EVs are completely mundane now. Not sexy enough of a story to justify the high PE ratios anymore. I think this is the reason for the weird pivot to humanoid robots and for taking SpaceX public even though he originally said he wouldn’t. Better story for the investors than EVs.