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Critics say EU risks ceding control of its tech laws under U.S. pressure
- mono442 6mo ago[flagged]
- greensh 6mo agoThe EU is not doing anything near enough against global warming.
- mono442 6mo agoTheir policies are a grift to funnel money to the right people so that's not surprising.
- 9dev 6mo agoDo you have anything to support that claim? Carbon taxes are a theoretically effective mechanism to tilt the markets towards more sustainable means of production, that is something most economists agree on; alas, practically they are often thwarted by caving out exceptions or delays for short-term political gain.
- mcv 6mo agoAt the moment carbon is still getting subsidizes for 100 billion per year. I'd love it if they taxed it by that amount.
- mono442 6mo agoIf most economists agree on something, it probably isn't true. Just like every economist agreed that there would be no inflation in 2020.
- roenxi 6mo agoMmm. The language is not precise enough - if most economists agree on something it probably is true. If the corporate media gives the impression all economists agree on something, it is probably not true. Economists as a profession understand extremely well that they have no ability predict the economic future beyond what the futures markets say.
- sam_lowry_ 6mo agoYou probably mean carbon credits, from the EU Emissions Trading System. Wikipedia has a lengthy and well-balanced article on the subject: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_Emissions_Trading_System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_Emissions_Tradi... It's an ugly and wasteful system set up instead of other, simpler measure that were politically unacceptable at the time, like higher VAT, excise duties on all fossil fuels across all industries without exception, including fuel oil for heating and aviation fuel.
- mcv 6mo agoThey really should end fuel subsidies. We're paying taxes to promote fuel use. That's a really bad use of our taxes. (Some are apparently already being phased out, but others are not, from what I understand, and they've gone up dramatically in the past couple of years.) As for digital rules, the EU should definitely stand firm and invest in its own tech sector, instead of caving to the US. Same with everything else where our standards are higher than theirs (food, human rights).
- mono442 6mo agoThere are no subsidies, gas and diesel are the most expensive in the world, and most of the cost is taxes. But apparently, for the EU politicians, that is still too cheap, so they want even more taxes on top of that.
- thfuran 6mo agohttps://www.eea.europa.eu/en/analysis/indicators/fossil-fuel-subsidies https://www.eea.europa.eu/en/analysis/indicators/fossil-fuel...
- pjc50 6mo ago> Notably, more than 60% of all fossil fuel subsidies granted in 2023 were spent in three countries: Germany (EUR 41 billion), Poland (EUR 16 billion), and France (EUR 15 billion). This is another one of those cases where people say "Europe" when meaning something much more country specific. I can't find any detailed breakdown of this; I'm guessing it's something to do with coal mining in Germany? France has absolutely no excuse, though. Largest nuclear power generation in Europe and subsidizing fossil fuels? I bet it's something to do with farming.
- orwin 6mo agoYour bet is right, but it's based on a misunderstanding. Those are not real subsidies, those are tax exemption on farmers, fishermen, trucker and traveling nurses.
- mrighele 6mo agoThere is no point fighting against global warming if you're the only one doing it. If China, USA and India are not on the same page, the result will be that production will move even more to those countries, global warming will continue and European will just be poorer.
- greensh 6mo agoYou right. Market competition makes this situation a prisonors dilemna. Under capitalism this problem will persist.
- notrealyme123 6mo agoWhy stop there? Child work and slavery save money! /s
- decremental 6mo ago[dead]
- pzo 6mo agoeverything is expensive worldwide more because of: - decade of money printing (quantitive easing, covid, petro-dollar) - decade of low interest rate free (created bubbles in stocks and assets) - oil price increase (war in ukraine, war in iran) as for EU climate rules this is IMHO still more a smoke screen - otherwise they wouldn't put tarriffs on chinese solar panels and EVs.
- gcanyon 6mo agoWhen Disney World is behind a sea wall, we will have deserved it.
- matthewdgreen 6mo agoDon't worry, everything will be expensive because the US decided to blow up half the world's oil supply.
- pepperoni_pizza 6mo agoHello, six months old account that only posts anti-EU stuff!
- Our_Benefactors 6mo agoHow old must an account be before expressing a consistent opinion in order for you to take those opinions in good faith?
- pjc50 6mo agoThis is the internet. Good faith needs to be earned, on an increasingly difficult scale now that comments may be AI-generated.
- em-bee 6mo agoit's not the consistent opinion that's the problem, it's the single issue (EU is bad) they are purportedly (i didn't check) focused on. also, "EU is bad" is suspicious in itself because it can't possibly be that everything about the EU is bad. a good faith opinion will find some good things about the EU and be specific in what they are criticizing.
- picafrost 6mo ago[flagged]
- petcat 6mo ago> personal injury attorney > ... a degraded culture Do matters of personal injury liability not apply in Europe?
- raverbashing 6mo agoWAY less than in the US But no you don't have ambulance chasers or personal injury lawyers trying to get millions out of someone who had a car crash and now their neck feels funny
- Ylpertnodi 6mo agoNot on dirty great billboards, no. Not yet.
- stavros 6mo agoSuing for damages here isn't profitable enough for attorneys, because "damages" with free healthcare means "missed a week of work", instead of "got a $200k bill".
- 6mo ago
- pjc50 6mo agoSpecifically, this is another Parliament vs Commission issue. The Commission loves to have little deals away from the public where everything is quietly smoothed over, while the Parliament is trying to build popular legitimacy.
- vintermann 6mo agoAlso, I'm not sure there's much pressure involved. Mass surveillance is a thing "centrist" EU politicians very much want themselves.
- mc32 6mo agoIt’s the public/private dichotomy you see everywhere. Publicly pols say one thing or stand for one thing and privately they hold different views.
- benoau 6mo ago> Meta’s Mark Zuckerberg publicly voiced his dissatisfaction and sought support from Trump, while Apple’s Tim Cook reportedly asked the White House to directly intervene against EU fines imposed on his company. https://www.euractiv.com/news/widespread-alarm-over-commissions-hesitant-dma-enforcement/ https://www.euractiv.com/news/widespread-alarm-over-commissi... Apple even went so far as to demand the EU repeal these laws, and is likely still non-compliant in several ways; for which they should have been fined tens of billions of dollars by now! https://www.reuters.com/business/apple-urges-eu-regulators-take-closer-look-tech-rules-2025-09-25/ https://www.reuters.com/business/apple-urges-eu-regulators-t... Trump has delivered for them, made it a point of contention for trade deals and threatened sanctions on anyone enforcing them. https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-administration-weighs-sanctions-officials-implementing-eu-tech-law-sources-2025-08-26/ https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-administration-weighs...
- junofan 6mo ago> they should have been fined tens of billions of dollars by now! Maybe cartoonishly large fines levied against powerful entities wasn’t such a great idea. Other incentives may have been better suited to getting the populace what they want in the long term.
- shevy-java 6mo agoIsn't it strange how Washington makes laws in the EU? I wonder if these lobbyists get paid a lot.
- skrebbel 6mo agoMeh, you're right but the EU also makes laws in the US (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect). In the end it's not about who makes the law but whether it's a good law. Ecodesign laws making US vacuum cleaners more economical is good. Trade pressures undermining EU privacy protections maybe not so good.
- MarcelOlsz 6mo agoI like how out of all examples to pit up against eroding privacy protections was consumer vacuum stuff from ages ago.
- skrebbel 6mo agoWho cares where a law originates? What matters is whether it’s a good idea or bad. Eroding privacy protections is bad. If the EU had come up with that all on their own (and they try that aplenty too; chat control anyone?) then it’s also bad.
- malicka 6mo agoMoney is the international language, after all. Why would oligarchs limit their influence to their own country?
- benoau 6mo agoAll this so Meta and X can sell politically divisive and hateful advertising with zero transparency.
- m-s-y 6mo agoIs it just me or is there not actual meat to this article? Like what specifically are the rules at issue here?
- benoau 6mo agoThe "Digital Services Act" effectively takes the divisive dark money out of advertising and requires more than minimum-effort moderation, affecting Meta and X: - bans targeted advertising based on a person’s sexual orientation, religion, ethnicity, or political beliefs and puts restrictions on targeting ads to children - requires transparency on content algorithms and advertising - requires online platforms prevent and remove posts containing illegal goods, services, or content in a timely fashion The "Digital Markets Act" requires interoperability and competition: - requires Apple to allow competing app stores, very contentious for Apple who invented a stack of fees for this - requires Apple and Google to allow apps to freely use 3rd party payments, this is very contentious for Apple and they still charge for doing so - allow 3rd parties interoperability, eg headphones and smartwatches for Apple and messaging clients for Meta, this is starting to improve - allow removal of preinstalled apps, settings of new defaults, this is largely done although malicious compliance has kept rival browsers at bay on iPhone
- input_sh 6mo agoDigital Services Act / Digital Markets Act (similar in spirit, but one targets online stores like Google Play, another one online services like Instagram more generally) More specifically, both are already in effect, outlawing certain things, and designating certain companies as "digital gatekeepers" when they reach a certain threshold of users within the EU. These regulations don't really specify what every gatekeeper needs to actually do (above the bare minimum), but say that once a company is designated as a gatekeeper, corrective action to prevent their monopolistic behaviour are going to be decided on a case-by-case basis. In practice this means that corrective actions can be something very significant (like iOS having to ask EU users to set a default browser during device setup instead of defaulting to Safari) or nothing, which is why this direct line of conversation shows spinelessness. It's pretty much an equivalent of a judge having open discussions with a criminal about how the court should interpret the law to suit the criminal better.
- picsao 6mo ago[dead]
- agrishin 6mo ago[flagged]
- alephnerd 6mo agoNope. It gets undue hate on Reddit (and by extension HN) but most people who matter in Bruxelles are heavy Politico consumers and leak to them all the time. Them, Table Media, and Indigo Publications will give you the best pulse on what's happening in Bruxelles.
- quietus2026 6mo agoNope. The simple fact that a politician gives any kind of quote, let alone an interview, to politico is a clear sign he/she is on the declining part of a political career. A bit like how using "Bruxelles" in a comment about the EU is a giveaway that your British and/or a (former?) brexiteer.
- alephnerd 6mo ago> like how using "Bruxelles" in a comment about the EU is a giveaway that your British and/or a (former?) brexiteer It's a very common metonym for the EU - like how I'd use "Berlin" or "Paris" as a metonym for political leadership in Germany and France respectively. Also, I ain't a Brit and have made that clear in my history on HN. > The simple fact that a politician gives any kind of quote, let alone an interview, to politico is a clear sign he/she is on the declining part of a political career In what way? You only give an assertion and no actual reasoning, and appear to be a long-living throwaway account. Meanwhile, I've been very open on HN about my past career in the policy space.
- breuleux 6mo ago> A bit like how using "Bruxelles" in a comment about the EU is a giveaway that your British and/or a (former?) brexiteer. "Bruxelles" is the official French spelling, and French is the city's most spoken language, so maybe they just, you know, live there.
- mikkupikku 6mo agoAfter decades of trying and broadly failing to regulate American tech corps, at what point does the EU admit that leveling fines against Meta will never stop Meta from being Meta, that American megacorps are essentially ungovernable in Europe (or elsewhere for that matter) and the best course of action is to ban and block them in Europe? Just more fines. Bigger fines, surely this will work eventually... It's been 20 years, its not working. A new approach is needed.
- Gud 6mo agoLevy harder fines until they go away? At least some money goes into the union
- alephnerd 6mo ago> After decades of trying and broadly failing to regulate American tech corps, at what point does the EU... The crux of the matter is it's a subset of the European Parliament versus a subset of EU member states. When push comes to shove, EU member states can and already do ignore the EP for anything tangentially related to national security, and national politicans don't and won't give up sovereign power to the EU. Additonally, the incentives of individual EU states with strong US FDI ties and not as strong domestic champions such as Poland, Ireland, Czechia, Luxembourg, and Romania means they fight tooth and nail to ensure American FDI continues. Member states like Hungary and Spain do this for China and Hungary and Austria for Russia. There's also the added issue of perception - the EP was historically (and for larger states like France and Germany still is) used as a way to sideline unpopular domestic politicans or as a cushy retirement posting. There's a reason VdL is in Bruxelles and not the Bundeskanzleramt. Plus, European companies have massive fixed capital investments in the US, especially after the IRA [0], so they don't want to face retaliation from American regulators, and are especially cozy with the Trump admin [1]. Also, European politicos also heavy leverage the revolving door of lobbying like their American peers. The "spend a couple years in Bundestag or Bruxelles and then take a cushy gig at Harvard [2][3]" remains strong. Heck, we'd always organize a fest where the wine would flow and European leaders would network with American and European policymakers studying and working in the US or in Europe [4]. [0] - https://flow.db.com/topics/macro-and-markets/us-german-trade-ramps-up https://flow.db.com/topics/macro-and-markets/us-german-trade... [1] - https://www.wsj.com/business/retail/trump-bernard-arnault-lvmh-relationship-971a8454 https://www.wsj.com/business/retail/trump-bernard-arnault-lv... [2] - https://www.hks.harvard.edu/about/leo-varadkar https://www.hks.harvard.edu/about/leo-varadkar [3] - https://ces.fas.harvard.edu/people/ces-alumni/past-policy-fellows https://ces.fas.harvard.edu/people/ces-alumni/past-policy-fe... [4] - https://euroconf.eu/speakers/ https://euroconf.eu/speakers/
- amazingamazing 6mo agoWhy no ban like china? Weak
- elric 6mo agoThe European Commission and Council are becoming increasingly unpopular among my peers. Sentiment towards the Parliament is generally still positive. But it's clear that two thirds of the Trilogue essentially don't give a shit about European people, their rights, their freedoms or their wellbeing. Things like Age Verification and Chat Control are going to blow up in their faces. I don't get how blind these institutions are.
- deleted 6mo ago[deleted]
- FpUser 6mo ago>"two thirds of the Trilogue essentially don't give a shit about European people, their rights, their freedoms or their wellbeing" Every bureaucracy works for themselves eventually. The EU's main task is to make superstate they can control. Since they are trying to eliminate / reduce rights of member countries one can imagine what kind of concerns they have towards individual people and their freedom.
- budududuroiu 6mo agoI don't buy the superstate argument, since the EC consistently avoids or waters down attempts towards federalisation (full fiscal union, directly elected Commission, Parliament with legislative initiative, yada yada). Making a superstate would constrain the Commission, not empower it. The current ambiguity of having enough integration to override member states, but not enough to be democratically challenged and kept in check is the sweet spot for unaccountable technocratic capture. Don't get me wrong, I'm completely against the EC, but I wish they were actually trying to create a superstate
- ViewTrick1002 6mo agoBecause the commission is proposed by the national governments through the European council. Meaning any attempt at making the commission directly elected reduces the national governments powers. What you see isn’t the commission watering down the proposals, what you see is the natural tug of war between the national governments and the European Parliament.
- jmyeet 6mo agoWhat are we witnessesing is the beginning of the end of the post-WW2 rules-based international order. What's truly bizarre is that the US designed this order to benefit themselves and they're the ones destroying it now. NATO is a protection racket to outsource European security but really to sell arms to Europe and give the US effetive control over the European militaries. Over the years the control has grown ever-more pervasive, such as with the control over banking and international payments. One anecdote of the extent of this influence is that if one European Venmos another European and puts "Cuba" or "Syria" in the memo field, they can have their account flagged or permanently banned [1]. The US gets to decide who can use credit cards and what for, which is something the EU has finally picked up on as an issue [2]. What's clear in all this is that China was completely correct to maintain sovereignty over their tech companies, platforms and data. What the US risks is that the EU is going to follow the China model. That means EU versions of cloud platforms, computing platforms, networking infrastructure and so on. And they'll do it similar to how China did by creating demand. Specifically, the EU will mandate the use of European platforms with all their contracts, the European parliament will pass laws as such for national governments and generally the pressure will increase to wean off of US tech companies. IMHO this shift is as big a change as the post-1945 world order. [1]: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/venmo-cuba-sanctions_n_571f8057e4b01a5ebde34b97 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/venmo-cuba-sanctions_n_571f80... [2]:https://europeanbusinessmagazine.com/business/europes-24-trillion-breakup-with-visa-and-mastercard-has-begun/ https://europeanbusinessmagazine.com/business/europes-24-tri...
- lioeters 6mo agoIt will be messy, but if the EU can make political and economic decisions for the benefit of their own people, instead of subservient to the US, this paradigm shift could turn out to be very healthy and productive for the region and future generations. China's prosperity is undeniable, and it's due to their willingness to question the unipolar dominance of the US in the decades since WWII. In terms of economic and geopolitical strategy, they've been ahead of the game and prepared for the disintegration of the "rules-based" order. Is the EU ready?
- klooney 6mo agoThe EU has been a huge free rider on defense and pharma spending from the US, they're going to have a rough time reorganizing their economies.
- Gareth321 6mo agoAs a European I have been deeply disappointed with how toothless the EC has been on enforcing the Digital Markets Act. I have exactly one submission to Hacker News from 20 July 2022 when the DMA was approved (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32163704 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32163704). I was incredibly hopeful, given the indicated timelines, that Apple would be forced to open up iOS and iPadOS. Meaning install an application from the internet without restriction, like with any other operating system. The wording clearly requires this (with some wiggle room for security). Apple has dragged this legal process out longer than even my most cynical prediction. I can only surmise that someone in the Commission or senior leadership has decided that enforcing the DMA is not politically expedient right now. I don't know how to force this issue as a European. There are just too many levels of abstraction between me and Brussels. It looks like many layers of bureaucracy and a lot of opaque backroom deals and discussions. I don't like it at all. Especially given that the EU moves so much faster when it comes to regulations like forcing all of us in Denmark to use timesheets, annoying lids on our bottles, and invasive surveillance laws. All I see is my life getting worse with their actions. I am not alone. Sentiment towards the EU internally is not good right now. Either they start creating regulations which benefit ordinary people, or we're going to get a pretty radical rightward shift in leadership soon, and there are many risks associated with this.
- kpw94 6mo ago> I don't know how to force this issue as a European. There are just too many levels of abstraction between me and Brussels. > EU moves so much faster when it comes to regulations like forcing all of us in Denmark to use timesheets, annoying lids on our bottles, and invasive surveillance laws. Rediscovering the principle of subsidiarity from first principles...
- Arubis 6mo agoCeding? Any legal control the EU has over tech has been slowly drawn out of the US’s grasp. It was just that the US dominance over legal control of all these networked interconnections wasn’t so actively and visibly utilized until more recently.
- FpUser 6mo agoEuropean countries should try to get off those training wheels and learn to live their own lives.
- PeterStuer 6mo agoThose same Europeans so fond of their DSA would scream bloody murder if a Trump like administration would do the same. They have created this monster, and there will be tears and the gnashing of theeth should their factions ever lose control and their opponents get to wield those same weapons. And no, the USAans are not in it for the 'free speech' either.
- sylware 6mo agoIn my country, I discovered a few days ago that my gov (EU country), had its web technical directives line-up with big tech web (in 2015/2016): during the last decade I have been suffering the breakage of the classic web interop of the gouv admnistration web replaced using a lot of bucks by "exclusive big tech" web apps, aka requiring only those massive bloat and kludge web engines from the "whatng" cartel (mozilla/apple/google): no more small, alternative and reasonably sized (SDK included) web browsers anymore. The most amazing thing is with everything I did in the last decade, the consulting of lawyers, member of internet/IT/software specialized user groups, I still don't know how I have managed to be aware _NOT_ for years that those very web technical directives are actually... law. Only the prime minister, then also the president, have the power to modify/fix those technical directives. The parliaments, or any technical authorities have ZERO power over them. The EU, via a directive, only requires for the member states to publish those technical directives to the other member states for "discussion" before final approval. In other words, deciding on those technical directives requires the same power than to decide to build an ICBM submarine or an aircraft carrier, not less. Maybe because they are not that un-important... The irony, the gov of 2015/2016 which approved those technical directives which would, without any doubt, end up with everything web being big tech exclusive (and this is what actually happened) was... a left-ist gov(!!). I suspect corruption or brain washing grade lobbying (maybe with fraud while consulting experts, or those experts were mostly from big tech). The bright side, if those technical directives are fixed in order to restore the classic web, the whole gov with its dependencies have 3 years to comply. Just need to tell the president or the prime minister... baw...
- tracker1 6mo agoI'm mixed on this... the article itself is relatively one-sided... of course you negotiate among concerned parties when it comes down to laws regarding anything largely produced outside your nation's purview. The EU can absolutely make all the invasive laws they want, the US has been happily doing the same... the individual EU nations and US states with more variations than practical on top of that. Age verification as a prominent example. Concerned parties will of course try to leverage what they are able to.. if that is a prominent political figure, foreign or domestic, it happens. This can be good, bad or even very bad. While I can totally understand criticism at any level... US in EU politics, or UK trying to coerce entirely US companies with fines that don't apply to them. The reality is negotiations happen all the time... you an accept/reject/renegotiate on every aspect of every topic.. and to some extent, make take it or leave it laws, where you are simply no longer a customer. For example, really curious to see how the foreign router ban (US) is going to shake out. As long as my OpnSense box and commercial AP continue to work, I should be okay for now... but who knows.
- trolleski 6mo agoBigControl, BigAddiction... I mean BigTech cannot be trusted on every level, including the personal of the people involved as we can see in the Epstein Files!