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Here's a thought experiment. I offer you the chance to be put in a medically induced coma and shipped around the world to strangers you know nothing about. You

Here's a thought experiment. I offer you the chance to be put in a medically induced coma and shipped around the world to strangers you know nothing about. You don't know what economic, political, or moral system you'll awaken to. The only thing you know for sure is they, for some reason we're interested in receiving an unconscious person, no questions asked. Do you take the deal? Do you sign your family up for it?

ghywertelling 6mo ago
Would the dynamical strange attractor system that is brain start in the same basin as it died in? Something to think about.
Filligree 6mo ago
In this scenario, the alternative is “you die”. Let’s make sure we’re including that in the question.
- andrewflnr 6mo ago
  That doesn't change things as much as you might think. Sufficiently advanced technology can create many fates worse than death.
- rozap 6mo ago
  Brains 'R Us recently filed for chapter 11 and has been cut up and sold for scrap to private equity. The new PE firm has your brain. In 2208 there's a large grey market for brains to be used for hybrid AI and meat bag workflows. It's technically illegal in many jurisdictions due to "ethical implications", but is still the cheapest way to run many workloads. The method used to harness the brain involves reanimating it in a jar of jelly, and then forcing it to do the 2208 equivalent of a captcha. Each time the brain fails a captcha, the brain receives an electric impulse which simulates the most excruciating pain that the brain can respresent, but the brain cannot scream or run away.
  - KronisLV 6mo ago
    > Each time the brain fails a captcha, the brain receives an electric impulse which simulates the most excruciating pain that the brain can respresent, but the brain cannot scream or run away. What percentage of your life being enjoyable vs horrible suffering makes it worth living? Maybe you're 80 years old at the time of storing your brain. Suppose after being revived that regime with capitalist incentives holds for another 200 years during which you live as a brain in a jar, but some cultural revolutions later you are liberated and then proceed to live 10'000 years across any number of bodies and circumstances, which means that in your lifespan of ~10'280 years (not accounting for being in storage) you experienced horrible suffering for about 2% of your life. This is as much of a contrived example as yours, aside from maybe good commentary on your part on human ethics being shit when profit enters the scene. Or maybe after 200 years you expire, having at least tried your best at a non-zero chance of extending your lifespan, instead leading to your total lifespan of 280 years being about 71% suffering. Is it better to not have tried at all, then? Just forsake ANY chance of being revived and living for as long as you want and conquering biology and seeing so much more than your 80 year lifespan let you? Should absolute oblivion be chosen instead, willingly, a 100% chance of never having a conscious though after your death again (within our current medical understanding)? What about the people dealing with all sorts of horrible illnesses and knowing that each next year might be spent in a lot of pain and suffering, even things like going through chemo? Should they also not try? Or even something as simple as all of the people who look for love/success in their lives, and never find any of it anyways and possibly die alone and in squalor? They knew the odds weren't good and tried anyways. A more grounded take would be that those preserved brains are just left to thaw and you probably die anyways without being turned into some human captcha machine, at least having tried. Is it also not worth it in that case, knowing those both potential alternatives?
    - rozap 6mo ago
      I guess I'm not making a judgement of what other people should or shouldn't do. Just making up a goofy example to illustrate that the choice is not so obvious to a lot of people, which I think you also illustrate pretty well with your examples. It really depends on the individual. I do think it's worth looking at the incentives of the people funding these companies, because that does give a picture of the probable outcomes. People will continue working on this sort of thing, that's fine, it really doesn't bother me. If I was forced to make a judgement, I think it's maybe a little silly, but I'm also not out there saving the planet from climate armageddon so I shouldn't cast stones. As a species we are extremely bad at prioritizing for our collective survival and there are a million worse things to be working on.
unsupp0rted 6mo ago
By that logic I wouldn’t sign up for blood transfusions, organ transplants, or take any medicine I didn’t compound myself. What’s the downside of skipping all that potential torture?… oh
jacquesm 6mo ago
Not a chance. In fact all these developments make me convinced that my early choice for cremation over burial was and is the right one. Arrive blank and leave with grace, try to improve the world while you're here.
surgical_fire 6mo ago
What for? Even in the best case scenario I would wake up in a world that barely makes any sense to me, where the things I cared about are long gone and nearly forgotten. Imagine everyday waking up in a world that forgot the grammar you dream on. That's a curse.
ceejayoz 6mo ago
The Bobiverse novels start this way. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_E._Taylor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_E._Taylor)
foxyv 6mo ago
Already went through this exact process. It wasn't too bad but I think I got lucky this time. I celebrate the anniversary every year. Most of my memories were about how to walk and be afraid of animals with big teeth though.

ghywertelling 6mo ago

Would the dynamical strange attractor system that is brain start in the same basin as it died in? Something to think about.

Filligree 6mo ago

In this scenario, the alternative is “you die”. Let’s make sure we’re including that in the question.

andrewflnr 6mo ago
That doesn't change things as much as you might think. Sufficiently advanced technology can create many fates worse than death.
rozap 6mo ago
Brains 'R Us recently filed for chapter 11 and has been cut up and sold for scrap to private equity. The new PE firm has your brain. In 2208 there's a large grey market for brains to be used for hybrid AI and meat bag workflows. It's technically illegal in many jurisdictions due to "ethical implications", but is still the cheapest way to run many workloads. The method used to harness the brain involves reanimating it in a jar of jelly, and then forcing it to do the 2208 equivalent of a captcha. Each time the brain fails a captcha, the brain receives an electric impulse which simulates the most excruciating pain that the brain can respresent, but the brain cannot scream or run away.
- KronisLV 6mo ago
  > Each time the brain fails a captcha, the brain receives an electric impulse which simulates the most excruciating pain that the brain can respresent, but the brain cannot scream or run away. What percentage of your life being enjoyable vs horrible suffering makes it worth living? Maybe you're 80 years old at the time of storing your brain. Suppose after being revived that regime with capitalist incentives holds for another 200 years during which you live as a brain in a jar, but some cultural revolutions later you are liberated and then proceed to live 10'000 years across any number of bodies and circumstances, which means that in your lifespan of ~10'280 years (not accounting for being in storage) you experienced horrible suffering for about 2% of your life. This is as much of a contrived example as yours, aside from maybe good commentary on your part on human ethics being shit when profit enters the scene. Or maybe after 200 years you expire, having at least tried your best at a non-zero chance of extending your lifespan, instead leading to your total lifespan of 280 years being about 71% suffering. Is it better to not have tried at all, then? Just forsake ANY chance of being revived and living for as long as you want and conquering biology and seeing so much more than your 80 year lifespan let you? Should absolute oblivion be chosen instead, willingly, a 100% chance of never having a conscious though after your death again (within our current medical understanding)? What about the people dealing with all sorts of horrible illnesses and knowing that each next year might be spent in a lot of pain and suffering, even things like going through chemo? Should they also not try? Or even something as simple as all of the people who look for love/success in their lives, and never find any of it anyways and possibly die alone and in squalor? They knew the odds weren't good and tried anyways. A more grounded take would be that those preserved brains are just left to thaw and you probably die anyways without being turned into some human captcha machine, at least having tried. Is it also not worth it in that case, knowing those both potential alternatives?
  - rozap 6mo ago
    I guess I'm not making a judgement of what other people should or shouldn't do. Just making up a goofy example to illustrate that the choice is not so obvious to a lot of people, which I think you also illustrate pretty well with your examples. It really depends on the individual. I do think it's worth looking at the incentives of the people funding these companies, because that does give a picture of the probable outcomes. People will continue working on this sort of thing, that's fine, it really doesn't bother me. If I was forced to make a judgement, I think it's maybe a little silly, but I'm also not out there saving the planet from climate armageddon so I shouldn't cast stones. As a species we are extremely bad at prioritizing for our collective survival and there are a million worse things to be working on.

unsupp0rted 6mo ago

By that logic I wouldn’t sign up for blood transfusions, organ transplants, or take any medicine I didn’t compound myself. What’s the downside of skipping all that potential torture?… oh

jacquesm 6mo ago

Not a chance. In fact all these developments make me convinced that my early choice for cremation over burial was and is the right one. Arrive blank and leave with grace, try to improve the world while you're here.

surgical_fire 6mo ago

What for? Even in the best case scenario I would wake up in a world that barely makes any sense to me, where the things I cared about are long gone and nearly forgotten. Imagine everyday waking up in a world that forgot the grammar you dream on. That's a curse.

ceejayoz 6mo ago

The Bobiverse novels start this way. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_E._Taylor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_E._Taylor)

foxyv 6mo ago

Already went through this exact process. It wasn't too bad but I think I got lucky this time. I celebrate the anniversary every year. Most of my memories were about how to walk and be afraid of animals with big teeth though.