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Interesting. Some of these are big deals (particularly the ones mentioned as important) but others I have seen Japanese people in Tokyo do quite consistently. S
by cthalupa 7mo ago
Interesting. Some of these are big deals (particularly the ones mentioned as important) but others I have seen Japanese people in Tokyo do quite consistently. Soroebashi - not on the table, but I've seen chopsticks aligned by pushing them against the plate hundreds of time. I've also seen them used to stir miso soup, etc. plenty.
Others I don't know that I would have much of an inclination to do and haven't seen but am not sure if it's because it really is a faux pas or just because no one else really tends to do it either.
- wahnfrieden 7mo agoit's like western etiquette: upper class, fine dining traditional practices are not what you'll see everyday even among polite society. the spectrum of behaviors will also depend on one's company.
- fc417fc802 7mo agoI assume this must be the case here because I'm familiar with a lot of different etiquette contexts in the US and I have the impression that Japan has far more of that sort of thing than we do. Off the top of my head there are (at minimum) the way we were expected to eat in front of my grandparents, a more "regular" dinner with the extended family, a small gathering at a tex mex joint or chain restaurant or whatever, a fast food joint, and whatever slovenly things I do while sitting on my couch in private. Anyone from a particularly wealthy family can probably add an additional couple contexts on the high end. Every single one of those situations has slightly different "rules" for what's acceptable.
- throwup238 7mo agoAnd then there’s my favorite, the southern seafood boil etiquette.
- wahnfrieden 7mo agoWe have a lot of dining etiquette too if you look into it. But it’s mostly forgotten and irrelevant high class behavior.
- nvader 7mo agoYep. Two words: _grape scissors_
- defrost 7mo agoLook here, Bridgerton: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNegQyn-4N8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNegQyn-4N8
- jeffbee 7mo agoYeah? How are you supposed to line up the sticks? And stir the soup? I think the "Mawashibashi" faux pas is to whip the soup like a madman, or to aimlessly swish it, and the translated listicle doesn't convey that.
- 0x3f 7mo agoYou could surreptitiously agitate the soup as you pull out the solid contents.
- wahnfrieden 7mo agoLine them up by using your hands. It’s simple… If you must mix soup, there is a spoon, or you simply bring it to your lips and it will mix as you tilt and sip from it.
- frereubu 7mo agoI've seen those too. I was going to say that I've seen people put the bowl to their mouth and shovel food in with chopsticks, but now that I come to think about it that might well actually be from the series Tokyo Diner and Takeshi Kitano films, and may be deliberately uncouth characterisations...
- wahnfrieden 7mo agoBringing the bowl close to your mouth and picking food up from it is proper. Pushing it from the bowl into your mouth is impolite but common.
- Umofomia 7mo agoI'm under the impression this is a Chinese vs. Japanese difference. Shoveling food into your mouth is perfectly acceptable in Chinese etiquette but discouraged in Japanese. Accordingly the Japanese cook their rice to clump together so it's easier to pick up using your chopsticks so that you don't have to resort to shoveling.
- JKCalhoun 7mo agoI thought it was okay to shovel noodles, but have not heard it was okay for rice.
- thaumasiotes 7mo agoI haven't been specifically informed as to either question, but I find that idea surprising, since noodles are infinitely easier to pick up with chopsticks than rice is.
- pndy 7mo agoThere's equally complex dining and utensils etiquette in Western culture but it's largely omitted (or even unknown) on daily basis.
- chasil 7mo agoThere is a wiki. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eating_utensil_etiquette https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eating_utensil_etiquette Edit: The wiki on chopsticks has an etiquette section broken down by country. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chopsticks#Chopstick_customs,_manners_and_etiquette https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chopsticks#Chopstick_customs,_...
- 3eb7988a1663 7mo agoThe difference between the American and European styles has been used as plot point in fictional works, including the 1946 film O.S.S. and the 2014 series Turn: Washington's Spies.[5] In both works, using the wrong fork etiquette threatens to expose undercover agents. Nuts. Apparently I have been a German spy all this time. I don't have time to waste swapping a fork around.
- cmcaleer 7mo agoI think if you were to do an Osaka version of this, the list would be limited to maybe 4 of these (licking, chopsticks upright in rice, passing between chopsticks, and pointing esp. toward a senior would be taboo). Whereas when I had a date with a girl from Kyoto, one of the first things that happened when we went to eat was she had to stop me from picking up my chopsticks impolitely and show me the proper way of doing it. Suffice it to say my Osaka-learned table manners and speech patterns meant there was no second date.
- cthalupa 7mo agoIt's always wild to me when I hear about how different the culture is between Osaka and Kyoto when they're so close.
- cmcaleer 7mo agoI remember being blown away when I was in a Kyoto Familymart after a few months of living in Osaka after they handed me my fried chicken very delicately with both hands like it was a business card! I guess that’s the cultural divide that occurs when one community is fishing and trading while the other does, like, competitive perfumed calligraphy or whatever.
- vpribish 7mo agocompetitive perfumed calligraphic etiquette -- of your grandfathers!
- Brian_K_White 7mo agoClearly they also cook and serve fried chicken.
- anthk 7mo agoSimilar in Spain between Andalusia doing trades since forever across the whole Mediterranean Sea vs the inner provinces (the Castille-s) and the chilly Atlantic North regions with Celtic/Basque substrates.
- 7mo ago
- rayiner 7mo agoYou also see plenty of americans put their elbows on the table.
- RHSeeger 7mo agoThe original reasons for not putting your elbows on the table (limited space, as well as some others) just don't apply anymore. There's no reason _not_ to put your elbows on the table other than "that's how it's always been done". As such, at least in my opinion, the rule no longer applies.
- testaccount28 7mo agosailors eat with their elbows on the table, to keep their fare from sliding as the boat rocks. don't look poor!
- thaumasiotes 7mo agoThat could only work as a reason to avoid the behavior if people were familiar with sailors.
- twelvedogs 7mo agoUntil you do it on a temporary table and knock over everyone's drinks
- tmatsuzaki 7mo agoI’m Japanese, but honestly, I don’t pay much attention to it. My parents used to get on me about it when I was a kid, but I still do it sometimes.
- Gigachad 7mo agoHalf of this list feels about as important as remembering the order of spoons on a table. Something that probably meant a lot 100 years ago but is mostly forgotten now.
- zdc1 7mo agoI assume this is one of those cases where if you're in the culture, you'll know which rules you're allowed to break (and when) vs if you're on the outside it's easiest to just follow all the rules all the time. Reminds me of an episode on youtube of How The British Upper Class Live | Stacey Dooley Sleeps Over where the presenter eats her eggs "wrong", much to the dismay of her posh host who tells her (in his subtle British way) that she should "sort that out".
- deleted 7mo ago[deleted]
- hashmal 7mo agoI mean... I've consistently seen people chewing with their mouth open, talking while chewing, biting their fork, and so many others, just in occidental places, and it didn't seem to bother anyone but me. so, why would it be different in Japan?
- dfxm12 7mo agoI see lots of people do things that are commonly written off as rude too. I don't know if there is much of a monoculture around what's rude or not, if people don't care (then is it truly rude?), or maybe the writings like this are simply outdated.
- buescher 7mo agoI am reminded of the passage in Umberto Eco's _Foucault's Pendulum_ where they reconstruct a particularly wild weekend for a Templar based on the rule of the Templars and the idea that a rule exists because it's something people do.