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I finally put my money where my mouth is and bought a PHEV. In the past month I've done all my errands around town exclusively on battery power (30-40 miles per

I finally put my money where my mouth is and bought a PHEV. In the past month I've done all my errands around town exclusively on battery power (30-40 miles per charge) from a home L1 charger. I know EV purists will complain about the complexity of maintaining the gas engine, but this hits the perfect sweet spot for me - it doesn't weigh a million tons, it cost under 40k new, and the one weekend a month when I need to I can drive 300 miles each way on a single tank of gas.

toomuchtodo 7mo ago
The problem with PHEVs is the data shows that, at scale, consumers typically use them in ICE mode vs EV mode. Its great it works for you, and hopefully BEVs kill the need for PHEVs in the next few years as the technology continues to rapidly improve around charge rate (<10 minute 10%-80% battery state of charge). Plug-in hybrids use three times more fuel than manufacturers claim, analysis finds - https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2026/feb/18/plug-in-hybrids-use-three-times-more-fuel-than-manufacturers-claim-analysis-finds https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2026/feb/18/plug-in-... - February 18th, 2026 Smoke screen: the growing PHEV emissions scandal - https://www.transportenvironment.org/articles/smoke-screen-the-growing-phev-emissions-scandal https://www.transportenvironment.org/articles/smoke-screen-t... - October 16th, 2025
- jrjeksjd8d 7mo ago
  Anecdotally, some brands are better than others. I test drove a Kia hybrid where the gas engine was pathetically underpowered and it ran constantly. Even when the battery was full it was still burning gas. I think Toyota might be the only company with a good PHEV drive-train. A Prius or Rav4 PHEV can do highway speeds on battery. And they have a heat pump so the gas engine doesn't kick in unless it gets very cold. Another factor is home charging availability. The Canadian government gives a rebate for PHEV vehicles, but they took away the subsidy to install L2 chargers. It's very attractive right now to buy a PHEV and never charge it just to get the purchase rebate.
  - Marsymars 7mo ago
    > I think Toyota might be the only company with a good PHEV drive-train. I've lost track a bit, but Ford has a pretty comparable drivetrain (e.g. in the Escape PHEV), and Toyota is sharing their drivetrain with Mazda (e.g. the CX-50 has same drivetrain as RAV4) and Subaru has Toyota-derived drivetrains in the new Crosstrek/Forester hybrids. (Mazda/Subaru don't currently have PHEVs available for their Toyota-sourced hybrids, but that could presumably easily change.) Availability of various models is wonky now due to US tariffs.
- tonyedgecombe 7mo ago
  Is this because people are buying them and not plugging them in? I wonder if they are just being miss-sold. They clearly make no sense if you don’t have somewhere to plug them in. On the other hand it is clearly working for the GP.
- ericjmorey 7mo ago
  Who is this a problem for?
  - toomuchtodo 7mo ago
    People taking action against climate change and CO2 emissions. Policymakers, etc. You wouldn't want to subsidize PHEVs in any fashion if they weren't contributing to the targeted outcome of reduced CO2 emissions or fossil fuel consumption.
    - phil21 7mo ago
      PHEVs when bought by informed consumers making a financial decision still pencil out just fine here. It’s the silly regulatory games played by manufacturers and regulators that cause stuff like a hybrid cayenne or 6000lb BMW M5 Touring to exist when neither the buyers or manufacturers want them to exist to begin with. These things are not remotely in the same actual category even though on paper they might be. They exist for entirely different reasons, one is market based and one is regulatory workarounds and gamesmanship.
      - kenhwang 7mo ago
        I want a PHEV Cayenne. If budget wasn't a concern, that'd actually be my first choice for replacing my ICE SUV. The convenience and flexibility of a PHEV far outweighs any cost savings from fuel economy improvements for me. A Porsche was never about financial sensibility anyway.
- nico 7mo ago
  > Plug-in hybrids use three times more fuel than manufacturers claim, analysis finds > three times more fuel than manufacturers claim But in the article: > Porsche hybrids consumed more fuel – around seven litres per 100km – than other PHEVs when the electric motor kicks in, and significantly more than non-PHEVs in combustion engine mode. > The lowest fuel consumption levels were found in the cheaper end of the PHEV market, in Kia, Toyota, Ford and Renault vehicles, which often used under one litre per 100km, or as much as 85% less fuel than the Porsche. So it seems like they are putting all cars in the same bucket based on the worst performing one: Porsche. Pretty misleading Also, even if the claim applied to all cars, for a Chrysler Pacifica PHEV for example, instead of 82 MPGe (32 mi electric-only range), you'd get ~39.2 mpg (using 6 L/100 km, the figure from the article), which is still better than a Toyota Sienna hybrid at 36 mpg, and way better than a Honda Odyssey at 22 mpg (gas only)
- 0cf8612b2e1e 7mo ago
  That seems like cherry picking the offenders to invalidate the entire class of vehicles. …Porsche hybrids consumed more fuel – around seven litres per 100km – than other PHEVs when the electric motor kicks in, and significantly more than non-PHEVs in combustion engine mode. The lowest fuel consumption levels were found in the cheaper end of the PHEV market, in Kia, Toyota, Ford and Renault vehicles, which often used under one litre per 100km, or as much as 85% less fuel than the Porsche. If I am buying a PHEV, I am not getting a Porsche or BMW.
  - kenhwang 7mo ago
    On the other hand, if I'm in the market for a Porsche or BMW commuter, the cost of fuel is basically negligible and a PHEV for performance or convenience or comfort would influence my decision far more than a relatively insignificant amount of fuel savings.
- loudmax 7mo ago
  My Prius Prime has been fantastic for me. It has about a 25 mile charge, which is just enough to get me to work and back. That range is a significant caveat. If your round trip commute (or one way commute, if you can charge at work) is outside the electric range, then you'll be relying on gas every day. In my situation it's worked out extremely well. I charge at home and only need to fill the gas tank about three or four times a year.
- yread 7mo ago
  Depends very much on the PHEV. Some are still more efficient even in mild hybrid mode. We have a Niro PHEV and it needs 4.5-5l/100km when the battery is "empty" (20% charge). We looked at Sportage and 3008 PHEVs and they were more like 7-8l/100km after the battery is empty.
nico 7mo ago
I think plug-in hybrids are the perfect combo. You get amazing flexibility and if you mostly drive locally, then 80-90% you are probably purely driving electric When we bought are last car, I would've bought one of those if there had been a Toyota or Honda minivan. We ended up going for a regular hybrid instead. Hopefully this category gets adopted by more car makers
- macintux 7mo ago
  Extra weight, extra drivetrain complexity, and many owners don't actually charge their hybrids so they're getting worse mileage. Tradeoffs everywhere, so "perfect" is very much not the word I'd apply.
  - nico 7mo ago
    Well, if you want to be pedantic, sure, nothing is perfect. You can always find fault with anything. Like you say, there are always tradeoffs It all depends on what you want the car for and how you use it. It will also depend on the very specific car and manufacturer. In my case, even though I love the concept of PHEV, I'd still wouldn't buy a Chrysler, so, to your point, I prefer to get a different brand that is not a PHEV, than get that specific make
  - bigfatkitten 7mo ago
    It’s a better tradeoff than maintaining two entirely separate vehicles, which is what I do because no suitable EV for all my needs exists yet.
  - tzs 7mo ago
    If you don't charge your PHEV it still works as a HEV, so you get considerably better gas mileage than a pure ICE. Also, is the drivetrain more complex? If your Hybrid is a Toyota it will have a mechanically simpler drivetrain than an ICE, but their drivetrain is electrically and electronically more complex. I think it is the same with some Honda hybrids.
  - olyjohn 7mo ago
    Extra weight compared to what? A pure ICE car? The weight savings from only using 30% of the batteries is huge. Also, what's more complex about a PHEV vs a regular hybrid? Do you want to tell me how heavy and unreliable a Prius is? And who cares about a bunch of people do who don't know how to use their shit? That doesn't mean there's something wrong with the vehicle.
nomel 7mo ago
i bought a small ev for commuting/around town (100 mile range in good conditions), and a large gas vehicle for everything else. if you have room, this appears to be the true sweet spot.
- Marsymars 7mo ago
  Only the (a?) sweet spot if you'd otherwise already be a two-car household. (And the larger gas vehicle can still be a non-plug-in hybrid.)
  - deleted 7mo ago
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roryobrien 7mo ago
PHEV is the absolute way to go. Next car is 100% going to be this. I rented two EV's and had serious stress about charging in locations I wasn't familiar with. All the different plug types and speeds was also not helpful. PHEV is a great gateway into full EV.
- epistasis 7mo ago
  Rental cars as EVs are pretty much the worst possible case. We are at the transition where we don't have chargers everywhere, but we will soon because chargers are way cheaper than a gas station. Also rentals tend to be driven for longer trips, and for uncertain distances! And on top of it all rental companies tend to not give people any choice, education, or help with the EV. I wouldn't bother with a PHEV for a vehicle I buy as I'm always going to buy EVs from now on, but for rentals a PHEV makes a lot of sense.
  - dangus 7mo ago
    I love renting EVs now, when they’re available. They’re always the cheapest option and they’re often nicer than the cheapest gas ICE options. I’d rather be in a Genesis G80 Electrified than a Camry. I just got a $100 charger for my relatives garage, which almost immediately paid for itself. (Though I’ll admit, I’m lucky that they installed a 220v outlet decades ago for appliances in their garage).
    - epistasis 7mo ago
      That's good to hear! We had some visitors, and we went on a trip to the mountains, and the nearest Level 2+ charger was some 70 miles away. It was a bit stressful for them, as they had never used an EV before, and the Electrify America chargers at the time tended to be either broken or in use. It was a major pain and stress point. This will all get easier as the chargers become more prevalent.
  - soco 7mo ago
    I'm in Western Europe and while there are chargers everywhere, you need hundred apps to register to charge, some slots are broken (empty yet show busy), some refuse to charge my PHEV... we're not there yet.
haunter 7mo ago
The new Prius with the solar charging roof is my dream car. Alas 50,000€ T_T
triceratops 7mo ago
Why not have 2 $20k used cars instead? One EV and one ICE.
- bluGill 7mo ago
  You have to insure each, pay license and taxes... most also need a parking spot.
  - triceratops 7mo ago
    A car's ownership costs are dominated by fuel and depreciation (which is a proxy for repairs and maintenance - brake pads, oil changes etc). You're probably going to come out ahead of the fixed costs of licensing, insurance, and registration on gasoline savings alone. The parking spot may or may not be an issue. If you can charge an EV at home, you likely have a garage or driveway. If not, then sure this doesn't apply. The bonus: with 2 vehicles you can use exactly as much car as needed for each trip. The EV can be a smallish hatchback or sedan with low-to-medium range. You aren't going too far and won't carry much stuff. It's enough for 90% of your miles driven. The ICE can be a minivan or SUV, since you'll likely need more space for road trips. You aren't pointlessly driving that hulking PHEV SUV on milk runs.
    - Marsymars 7mo ago
      > A car's ownership costs are dominated by fuel and depreciation. You're probably going to come out ahead of those fixed costs on gasoline savings alone. Depends how much you drive. If you don't drive much to start, and then having two vehicles cuts that in half, your effectively-fixed costs go up - e.g. you start having to replace your tires because the rubber is getting too old long before the tread wears out, insurance doesn't scale down linearly for low-mileage drivers, etc.
    - phil21 7mo ago
      Depreciation, sure. If you’re buying new of course. Fuel is very much use dependent. I drive very little so having one large nicer (3 years old off a lease return) made the most sense to me when I had to watch the bottom line. Both financially and quality of life. I filled up the tank on that thing once every 2-3mo at most. Tires cost more due to simply aging out and the rubber compounds not being as spry as they once were. Other than that it was an oil change once a year. It was a Honda so I think the only repair work I did was a $20 relay that failed I was able to self diagnose, over the 13 years I owned it. Yeah that’s the extreme end - but there is a lot of middle ground before you get into it being cheaper to have a second vehicle. I do now, but that’s due to owning a ridiculous dream weekend car. Maintaining two cars, insuring them, dealing with less space in the garage for other stuff, etc. really is a giant expensive hassle even if both were cheap(ish) used vehicles. The math switches once you get to “beater” level cars - but I am far removed from the time of my life where I want to deal with actual car repairs due to things breaking unexpectedly. The used car market also isn’t like it was when I was 22 and broke either. Deals are much harder to come by. I value my time and mental energy far more these days as well. Different strokes for different folks! If I went back to a single car I’d likely be looking at a PHEV Lexus or similar class vehicle for a bit of luxury plus reliability. I still rarely drive though so it’s a silly expense either way.
Magi604 7mo ago
Happy PHEV owner here. I have a few quibbles with my particular model, but imo this is currently the way to go. It's the best of both worlds.
louwrentius 7mo ago
I still feel that PHEVs combine the worst parts of both worlds. The battery of a PHEV is relatively small and will be strained much more (as compared to an EV), especially if you drive a lot in EV modus. PHEV batteries tend to wear out faster for this reason. This drives up cost of ownership. Then you still have the maintenance / cost of the ICE drivetrain. It does not make sense to me. I feel that a lot of people buy vehicles because of the long-distance trips they make a few times a year. Long-distance trips are not a big deal anymore with the current status of the fast-charging stations. Yes you may still do 600 miles on a single tank of gas with a ICE or PHEV, but you have to stop and rest, use the bathroom, drink something. Everytime you stop is a charging opportunity. Anno 2026 there is so much choice for 'pure' EVs for the budget you stated, especially second-hand. And then you may be able to charge at home, with solar, it's a no-brainer to me. This is possible with an PHEV too, but well, we discussed that here.
- deleted 7mo ago
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- fpoling 7mo ago
  Toyota hybrids are very reliable and probably the reason taxi drivers around Europe prefer those. And with the proper PHEV the wear is even less.
  - louwrentius 7mo ago
    I see a ton of Tesla taxis in NL. I’m not buying the hybrid story.
- Marsymars 7mo ago
  > The battery of a PHEV is relatively small and will be strained much more (as compared to an EV), especially if you drive a lot in EV modus. PHEV batteries tend to wear out faster for this reason. This drives up cost of ownership. With appropriate battery management, this doesn't really drive up the cost, it just moves the depreciation curve around. Think of it from the other side - with an EV, you're paying up front for a bunch of battery value in a consumable good that you'll never depreciate.
01100011 7mo ago
PHEV would be my choice but I WFH and my wife doesn't work so we just don't drive enough for a non-IC car to make sense. Gas would need to be like $20/gallon for it to pay off.
doug_durham 7mo ago
I own both a PHEV and EV. I really don't like driving the PHEV because the performance goes to crap at 40 miles when the gas motor kicks in. Once you are in ICE mode you are driving a loud poorly performing car. In rural areas I think PHEVs are fine.
- drcongo 7mo ago
  That sounds like you just bought a really poor choice of PHEV. I've got a PHEV DS 7 and the performance is essentially identical on ICE or EV. Combined with the sound proofing, I've never even noticed the car switch between the two modes.
GMoromisato 7mo ago
We have two EVs, but I have no problem with PHEVs. They are another case where theory (too much complexity) does not match practice (actually, reliability is fine).
jrjeksjd8d 7mo ago
To summarize replies: - I don't want to own 2 cars. Over 10 years I'm skeptical that the TCO would be less for 2 used cars than 1 new Toyota. - With incentives the PHEV was less expensive than a mild hybrid, and I do use L1 charging to get the full range every night. - I guess I could have bought a used EV and put in an L2 charger. New EVs were out of my price range. There's a lot more research involved in buying a new EV and I didn't want to go that deep to avoid a lemon.
WarmWash 7mo ago
I'll throw my hat in the ring of rage: PHEVs are (largely) for consumers who don't understand how EVs work (but think they do) and are too scared of having to sit in their car and charge for an hour anytime they leave the town perimeter. In reality with most EVs, you can drive 500 miles with one 30 minute charge. That's 7 hours of driving at 65mph, and one 30 minute charge. I know everyone claims to be a psychopath driver who never stops on a road trip for more than 5 minutes every 7 hours when they learn this, but the reality is you don't even notice the charging stop. Unlike gas pumps, it's the norm to leave your car on the charger while you go do something else (eat, sight see, shop, w/e). It's only really trips that are >500 miles where this starts to become apparent. Or on trips through remote areas. Or having no idea how EVs work, driving till you're almost empty, then deciding it's time to get off the highway and find a charger. The consumer segment that actually needs PHEVs is incredibly small, but the segment that thinks they need them is huge, hence the market.
- jamie_ca 7mo ago
  > with most EVs, you can drive 500 miles with one 30 minute charge I'm just gonna call bullshit on that one. https://ev-database.org/cheatsheet/range-electric-car https://ev-database.org/cheatsheet/range-electric-car looks like it's got a bunch of recent vehicles, and pegs average range at 390km or 242mi. The _highest_ range there is 720km or 450mi, and a 300KW charge runs it 10-80% (+500km range, not miles) in a half hour. If you _don't_ have the absolute best range + infrastructure to support the charge at that rate: I've got a 2020 Kia Soul w/ 64kWh battery and lines up with the 390km range rating. Did a road trip last year. My charger caps out at 73kW or so on a DC charge, and a charge at that rate (40%-80%) gave me ~150km in a half hour. 10-80% is ~220-250km and takes an hour. Now, I did the road trip with two kids and a dog, so an hour's potty/walk break every 2-2.5h driving worked out for us, but I don't think that's entirely generalizable. I do also agree that unless we're road-tripping, it's a nonissue. We put a level 2 charger in the garage, and plug in overnight once or twice a week and no range stress at all.
  - WarmWash 7mo ago
    Assume 300 mi range and 200kW charging Leave home full charge -> drive 275 miles -> charge 30 min to 80% -> drive 225mi -> arrive with ~10%
vladgur 7mo ago
I did a cost per 1000 miles comparison of Camry hybrid vs Tesla model y back in 2023 when i was shopping for a new car. I just pulled up that spreadsheet and updated my area gas prices($5.50 per gallon) and my area off-peak energy costs ($0.50 per kwh). Both cost $133 to drive 1000 miles(including ammortized oil changes for camry). Camry was $15000 cheaper AND has a 500 mile range. Even at todays war-time gas prices, the EVs are not always the financially sound choice thanks to runaway costs of electricity in my state.
- postalrat 7mo ago
  Where is electricity .5 per kwh. That's crazy high. At that cost solar must pay off very quickly.
  - vladgur 7mo ago
    PG&E in Northern California. Same for Edison in Southern California. The thing about my area (Peninsula, 20 minutes south of SF) is that its not hot enough to really justify A/C, my electrical+gas bill averages out below $200 a month and my roof is old enough where it would need to be replaced before solar is installed. So a $15-$20000 expense cost for solar would actually be closer to $30-$40,000 with roof replacement, plus potentially bringing ancient wiring in my home to code will cost another handfull of thousands. Its akin to trying to fix a slow memory leak in your application and realizing you need to also upgrade a bunch of dependencies which no longer support the current version of your tools AND refactor the frontend.
ZeroGravitas 7mo ago
BYD also makes better PHEVs than are available in the US, EREVs as they are known in China. Basically EV first with a generator.

toomuchtodo 7mo ago

The problem with PHEVs is the data shows that, at scale, consumers typically use them in ICE mode vs EV mode. Its great it works for you, and hopefully BEVs kill the need for PHEVs in the next few years as the technology continues to rapidly improve around charge rate (<10 minute 10%-80% battery state of charge). Plug-in hybrids use three times more fuel than manufacturers claim, analysis finds - https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2026/feb/18/plug-in-hybrids-use-three-times-more-fuel-than-manufacturers-claim-analysis-finds https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2026/feb/18/plug-in-... - February 18th, 2026 Smoke screen: the growing PHEV emissions scandal - https://www.transportenvironment.org/articles/smoke-screen-the-growing-phev-emissions-scandal https://www.transportenvironment.org/articles/smoke-screen-t... - October 16th, 2025

jrjeksjd8d 7mo ago
Anecdotally, some brands are better than others. I test drove a Kia hybrid where the gas engine was pathetically underpowered and it ran constantly. Even when the battery was full it was still burning gas. I think Toyota might be the only company with a good PHEV drive-train. A Prius or Rav4 PHEV can do highway speeds on battery. And they have a heat pump so the gas engine doesn't kick in unless it gets very cold. Another factor is home charging availability. The Canadian government gives a rebate for PHEV vehicles, but they took away the subsidy to install L2 chargers. It's very attractive right now to buy a PHEV and never charge it just to get the purchase rebate.
- Marsymars 7mo ago
  > I think Toyota might be the only company with a good PHEV drive-train. I've lost track a bit, but Ford has a pretty comparable drivetrain (e.g. in the Escape PHEV), and Toyota is sharing their drivetrain with Mazda (e.g. the CX-50 has same drivetrain as RAV4) and Subaru has Toyota-derived drivetrains in the new Crosstrek/Forester hybrids. (Mazda/Subaru don't currently have PHEVs available for their Toyota-sourced hybrids, but that could presumably easily change.) Availability of various models is wonky now due to US tariffs.
tonyedgecombe 7mo ago
Is this because people are buying them and not plugging them in? I wonder if they are just being miss-sold. They clearly make no sense if you don’t have somewhere to plug them in. On the other hand it is clearly working for the GP.
ericjmorey 7mo ago
Who is this a problem for?
- toomuchtodo 7mo ago
  People taking action against climate change and CO2 emissions. Policymakers, etc. You wouldn't want to subsidize PHEVs in any fashion if they weren't contributing to the targeted outcome of reduced CO2 emissions or fossil fuel consumption.
  - phil21 7mo ago
    PHEVs when bought by informed consumers making a financial decision still pencil out just fine here. It’s the silly regulatory games played by manufacturers and regulators that cause stuff like a hybrid cayenne or 6000lb BMW M5 Touring to exist when neither the buyers or manufacturers want them to exist to begin with. These things are not remotely in the same actual category even though on paper they might be. They exist for entirely different reasons, one is market based and one is regulatory workarounds and gamesmanship.
    - kenhwang 7mo ago
      I want a PHEV Cayenne. If budget wasn't a concern, that'd actually be my first choice for replacing my ICE SUV. The convenience and flexibility of a PHEV far outweighs any cost savings from fuel economy improvements for me. A Porsche was never about financial sensibility anyway.
nico 7mo ago
> Plug-in hybrids use three times more fuel than manufacturers claim, analysis finds > three times more fuel than manufacturers claim But in the article: > Porsche hybrids consumed more fuel – around seven litres per 100km – than other PHEVs when the electric motor kicks in, and significantly more than non-PHEVs in combustion engine mode. > The lowest fuel consumption levels were found in the cheaper end of the PHEV market, in Kia, Toyota, Ford and Renault vehicles, which often used under one litre per 100km, or as much as 85% less fuel than the Porsche. So it seems like they are putting all cars in the same bucket based on the worst performing one: Porsche. Pretty misleading Also, even if the claim applied to all cars, for a Chrysler Pacifica PHEV for example, instead of 82 MPGe (32 mi electric-only range), you'd get ~39.2 mpg (using 6 L/100 km, the figure from the article), which is still better than a Toyota Sienna hybrid at 36 mpg, and way better than a Honda Odyssey at 22 mpg (gas only)
0cf8612b2e1e 7mo ago
That seems like cherry picking the offenders to invalidate the entire class of vehicles. …Porsche hybrids consumed more fuel – around seven litres per 100km – than other PHEVs when the electric motor kicks in, and significantly more than non-PHEVs in combustion engine mode. The lowest fuel consumption levels were found in the cheaper end of the PHEV market, in Kia, Toyota, Ford and Renault vehicles, which often used under one litre per 100km, or as much as 85% less fuel than the Porsche. If I am buying a PHEV, I am not getting a Porsche or BMW.
- kenhwang 7mo ago
  On the other hand, if I'm in the market for a Porsche or BMW commuter, the cost of fuel is basically negligible and a PHEV for performance or convenience or comfort would influence my decision far more than a relatively insignificant amount of fuel savings.
loudmax 7mo ago
My Prius Prime has been fantastic for me. It has about a 25 mile charge, which is just enough to get me to work and back. That range is a significant caveat. If your round trip commute (or one way commute, if you can charge at work) is outside the electric range, then you'll be relying on gas every day. In my situation it's worked out extremely well. I charge at home and only need to fill the gas tank about three or four times a year.
yread 7mo ago
Depends very much on the PHEV. Some are still more efficient even in mild hybrid mode. We have a Niro PHEV and it needs 4.5-5l/100km when the battery is "empty" (20% charge). We looked at Sportage and 3008 PHEVs and they were more like 7-8l/100km after the battery is empty.

nico 7mo ago

I think plug-in hybrids are the perfect combo. You get amazing flexibility and if you mostly drive locally, then 80-90% you are probably purely driving electric When we bought are last car, I would've bought one of those if there had been a Toyota or Honda minivan. We ended up going for a regular hybrid instead. Hopefully this category gets adopted by more car makers

macintux 7mo ago
Extra weight, extra drivetrain complexity, and many owners don't actually charge their hybrids so they're getting worse mileage. Tradeoffs everywhere, so "perfect" is very much not the word I'd apply.
- nico 7mo ago
  Well, if you want to be pedantic, sure, nothing is perfect. You can always find fault with anything. Like you say, there are always tradeoffs It all depends on what you want the car for and how you use it. It will also depend on the very specific car and manufacturer. In my case, even though I love the concept of PHEV, I'd still wouldn't buy a Chrysler, so, to your point, I prefer to get a different brand that is not a PHEV, than get that specific make
- bigfatkitten 7mo ago
  It’s a better tradeoff than maintaining two entirely separate vehicles, which is what I do because no suitable EV for all my needs exists yet.
- tzs 7mo ago
  If you don't charge your PHEV it still works as a HEV, so you get considerably better gas mileage than a pure ICE. Also, is the drivetrain more complex? If your Hybrid is a Toyota it will have a mechanically simpler drivetrain than an ICE, but their drivetrain is electrically and electronically more complex. I think it is the same with some Honda hybrids.
- olyjohn 7mo ago
  Extra weight compared to what? A pure ICE car? The weight savings from only using 30% of the batteries is huge. Also, what's more complex about a PHEV vs a regular hybrid? Do you want to tell me how heavy and unreliable a Prius is? And who cares about a bunch of people do who don't know how to use their shit? That doesn't mean there's something wrong with the vehicle.

nomel 7mo ago

i bought a small ev for commuting/around town (100 mile range in good conditions), and a large gas vehicle for everything else. if you have room, this appears to be the true sweet spot.

Marsymars 7mo ago
Only the (a?) sweet spot if you'd otherwise already be a two-car household. (And the larger gas vehicle can still be a non-plug-in hybrid.)
- deleted 7mo ago
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roryobrien 7mo ago

PHEV is the absolute way to go. Next car is 100% going to be this. I rented two EV's and had serious stress about charging in locations I wasn't familiar with. All the different plug types and speeds was also not helpful. PHEV is a great gateway into full EV.

epistasis 7mo ago
Rental cars as EVs are pretty much the worst possible case. We are at the transition where we don't have chargers everywhere, but we will soon because chargers are way cheaper than a gas station. Also rentals tend to be driven for longer trips, and for uncertain distances! And on top of it all rental companies tend to not give people any choice, education, or help with the EV. I wouldn't bother with a PHEV for a vehicle I buy as I'm always going to buy EVs from now on, but for rentals a PHEV makes a lot of sense.
- dangus 7mo ago
  I love renting EVs now, when they’re available. They’re always the cheapest option and they’re often nicer than the cheapest gas ICE options. I’d rather be in a Genesis G80 Electrified than a Camry. I just got a $100 charger for my relatives garage, which almost immediately paid for itself. (Though I’ll admit, I’m lucky that they installed a 220v outlet decades ago for appliances in their garage).
  - epistasis 7mo ago
    That's good to hear! We had some visitors, and we went on a trip to the mountains, and the nearest Level 2+ charger was some 70 miles away. It was a bit stressful for them, as they had never used an EV before, and the Electrify America chargers at the time tended to be either broken or in use. It was a major pain and stress point. This will all get easier as the chargers become more prevalent.
- soco 7mo ago
  I'm in Western Europe and while there are chargers everywhere, you need hundred apps to register to charge, some slots are broken (empty yet show busy), some refuse to charge my PHEV... we're not there yet.

haunter 7mo ago

The new Prius with the solar charging roof is my dream car. Alas 50,000€ T_T

triceratops 7mo ago

Why not have 2 $20k used cars instead? One EV and one ICE.

bluGill 7mo ago
You have to insure each, pay license and taxes... most also need a parking spot.
- triceratops 7mo ago
  A car's ownership costs are dominated by fuel and depreciation (which is a proxy for repairs and maintenance - brake pads, oil changes etc). You're probably going to come out ahead of the fixed costs of licensing, insurance, and registration on gasoline savings alone. The parking spot may or may not be an issue. If you can charge an EV at home, you likely have a garage or driveway. If not, then sure this doesn't apply. The bonus: with 2 vehicles you can use exactly as much car as needed for each trip. The EV can be a smallish hatchback or sedan with low-to-medium range. You aren't going too far and won't carry much stuff. It's enough for 90% of your miles driven. The ICE can be a minivan or SUV, since you'll likely need more space for road trips. You aren't pointlessly driving that hulking PHEV SUV on milk runs.
  - Marsymars 7mo ago
    > A car's ownership costs are dominated by fuel and depreciation. You're probably going to come out ahead of those fixed costs on gasoline savings alone. Depends how much you drive. If you don't drive much to start, and then having two vehicles cuts that in half, your effectively-fixed costs go up - e.g. you start having to replace your tires because the rubber is getting too old long before the tread wears out, insurance doesn't scale down linearly for low-mileage drivers, etc.
  - phil21 7mo ago
    Depreciation, sure. If you’re buying new of course. Fuel is very much use dependent. I drive very little so having one large nicer (3 years old off a lease return) made the most sense to me when I had to watch the bottom line. Both financially and quality of life. I filled up the tank on that thing once every 2-3mo at most. Tires cost more due to simply aging out and the rubber compounds not being as spry as they once were. Other than that it was an oil change once a year. It was a Honda so I think the only repair work I did was a $20 relay that failed I was able to self diagnose, over the 13 years I owned it. Yeah that’s the extreme end - but there is a lot of middle ground before you get into it being cheaper to have a second vehicle. I do now, but that’s due to owning a ridiculous dream weekend car. Maintaining two cars, insuring them, dealing with less space in the garage for other stuff, etc. really is a giant expensive hassle even if both were cheap(ish) used vehicles. The math switches once you get to “beater” level cars - but I am far removed from the time of my life where I want to deal with actual car repairs due to things breaking unexpectedly. The used car market also isn’t like it was when I was 22 and broke either. Deals are much harder to come by. I value my time and mental energy far more these days as well. Different strokes for different folks! If I went back to a single car I’d likely be looking at a PHEV Lexus or similar class vehicle for a bit of luxury plus reliability. I still rarely drive though so it’s a silly expense either way.

Magi604 7mo ago

Happy PHEV owner here. I have a few quibbles with my particular model, but imo this is currently the way to go. It's the best of both worlds.

louwrentius 7mo ago

I still feel that PHEVs combine the worst parts of both worlds. The battery of a PHEV is relatively small and will be strained much more (as compared to an EV), especially if you drive a lot in EV modus. PHEV batteries tend to wear out faster for this reason. This drives up cost of ownership. Then you still have the maintenance / cost of the ICE drivetrain. It does not make sense to me. I feel that a lot of people buy vehicles because of the long-distance trips they make a few times a year. Long-distance trips are not a big deal anymore with the current status of the fast-charging stations. Yes you may still do 600 miles on a single tank of gas with a ICE or PHEV, but you have to stop and rest, use the bathroom, drink something. Everytime you stop is a charging opportunity. Anno 2026 there is so much choice for 'pure' EVs for the budget you stated, especially second-hand. And then you may be able to charge at home, with solar, it's a no-brainer to me. This is possible with an PHEV too, but well, we discussed that here.

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fpoling 7mo ago
Toyota hybrids are very reliable and probably the reason taxi drivers around Europe prefer those. And with the proper PHEV the wear is even less.
- louwrentius 7mo ago
  I see a ton of Tesla taxis in NL. I’m not buying the hybrid story.
Marsymars 7mo ago
> The battery of a PHEV is relatively small and will be strained much more (as compared to an EV), especially if you drive a lot in EV modus. PHEV batteries tend to wear out faster for this reason. This drives up cost of ownership. With appropriate battery management, this doesn't really drive up the cost, it just moves the depreciation curve around. Think of it from the other side - with an EV, you're paying up front for a bunch of battery value in a consumable good that you'll never depreciate.

01100011 7mo ago

PHEV would be my choice but I WFH and my wife doesn't work so we just don't drive enough for a non-IC car to make sense. Gas would need to be like $20/gallon for it to pay off.

doug_durham 7mo ago

I own both a PHEV and EV. I really don't like driving the PHEV because the performance goes to crap at 40 miles when the gas motor kicks in. Once you are in ICE mode you are driving a loud poorly performing car. In rural areas I think PHEVs are fine.

drcongo 7mo ago
That sounds like you just bought a really poor choice of PHEV. I've got a PHEV DS 7 and the performance is essentially identical on ICE or EV. Combined with the sound proofing, I've never even noticed the car switch between the two modes.

GMoromisato 7mo ago

We have two EVs, but I have no problem with PHEVs. They are another case where theory (too much complexity) does not match practice (actually, reliability is fine).

jrjeksjd8d 7mo ago

To summarize replies: - I don't want to own 2 cars. Over 10 years I'm skeptical that the TCO would be less for 2 used cars than 1 new Toyota. - With incentives the PHEV was less expensive than a mild hybrid, and I do use L1 charging to get the full range every night. - I guess I could have bought a used EV and put in an L2 charger. New EVs were out of my price range. There's a lot more research involved in buying a new EV and I didn't want to go that deep to avoid a lemon.

WarmWash 7mo ago

I'll throw my hat in the ring of rage: PHEVs are (largely) for consumers who don't understand how EVs work (but think they do) and are too scared of having to sit in their car and charge for an hour anytime they leave the town perimeter. In reality with most EVs, you can drive 500 miles with one 30 minute charge. That's 7 hours of driving at 65mph, and one 30 minute charge. I know everyone claims to be a psychopath driver who never stops on a road trip for more than 5 minutes every 7 hours when they learn this, but the reality is you don't even notice the charging stop. Unlike gas pumps, it's the norm to leave your car on the charger while you go do something else (eat, sight see, shop, w/e). It's only really trips that are >500 miles where this starts to become apparent. Or on trips through remote areas. Or having no idea how EVs work, driving till you're almost empty, then deciding it's time to get off the highway and find a charger. The consumer segment that actually needs PHEVs is incredibly small, but the segment that thinks they need them is huge, hence the market.

jamie_ca 7mo ago
> with most EVs, you can drive 500 miles with one 30 minute charge I'm just gonna call bullshit on that one. https://ev-database.org/cheatsheet/range-electric-car https://ev-database.org/cheatsheet/range-electric-car looks like it's got a bunch of recent vehicles, and pegs average range at 390km or 242mi. The _highest_ range there is 720km or 450mi, and a 300KW charge runs it 10-80% (+500km range, not miles) in a half hour. If you _don't_ have the absolute best range + infrastructure to support the charge at that rate: I've got a 2020 Kia Soul w/ 64kWh battery and lines up with the 390km range rating. Did a road trip last year. My charger caps out at 73kW or so on a DC charge, and a charge at that rate (40%-80%) gave me ~150km in a half hour. 10-80% is ~220-250km and takes an hour. Now, I did the road trip with two kids and a dog, so an hour's potty/walk break every 2-2.5h driving worked out for us, but I don't think that's entirely generalizable. I do also agree that unless we're road-tripping, it's a nonissue. We put a level 2 charger in the garage, and plug in overnight once or twice a week and no range stress at all.
- WarmWash 7mo ago
  Assume 300 mi range and 200kW charging Leave home full charge -> drive 275 miles -> charge 30 min to 80% -> drive 225mi -> arrive with ~10%

vladgur 7mo ago

I did a cost per 1000 miles comparison of Camry hybrid vs Tesla model y back in 2023 when i was shopping for a new car. I just pulled up that spreadsheet and updated my area gas prices($5.50 per gallon) and my area off-peak energy costs ($0.50 per kwh). Both cost $133 to drive 1000 miles(including ammortized oil changes for camry). Camry was $15000 cheaper AND has a 500 mile range. Even at todays war-time gas prices, the EVs are not always the financially sound choice thanks to runaway costs of electricity in my state.

postalrat 7mo ago
Where is electricity .5 per kwh. That's crazy high. At that cost solar must pay off very quickly.
- vladgur 7mo ago
  PG&E in Northern California. Same for Edison in Southern California. The thing about my area (Peninsula, 20 minutes south of SF) is that its not hot enough to really justify A/C, my electrical+gas bill averages out below $200 a month and my roof is old enough where it would need to be replaced before solar is installed. So a $15-$20000 expense cost for solar would actually be closer to $30-$40,000 with roof replacement, plus potentially bringing ancient wiring in my home to code will cost another handfull of thousands. Its akin to trying to fix a slow memory leak in your application and realizing you need to also upgrade a bunch of dependencies which no longer support the current version of your tools AND refactor the frontend.

ZeroGravitas 7mo ago

BYD also makes better PHEVs than are available in the US, EREVs as they are known in China. Basically EV first with a generator.