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Apple isn’t this bad, of course, but they’re slowly heading in that direction. The number of overlapping iPad models and variants, for example, is getting kind

Apple isn’t this bad, of course, but they’re slowly heading in that direction. The number of overlapping iPad models and variants, for example, is getting kind of crazy these days. Now there’s the MacBook Neo and a rumoured new MacBook Ultra in the pipeline. The easy days of “pick standard or pro, select a display size, select RAM & storage” are starting to fade.

DaanDL 7mo ago
Especially with things like: will my pencil work with this iPad.
enraged_camel 7mo ago
>> The number of overlapping iPad models and variants, for example, is getting kind of crazy these days. One of the first things Steve Jobs immediately did after returning to Apple in 1997 was to kill most of Apple's product line-up, which had exploded in his absence. Too bad he's not around to save them from the same over-segmentation anymore.
- thewebguyd 7mo ago
  The goal is different. Jobs wanted to make the product spread simple to understand. Apple's current method is a pricing ladder, make it simple to spend $200+ more than you planned. MacBook Neo, $599. Great but maybe I want Touch ID & more storage, ok $699. Well at this point now it's "only" $300 to get the air which is much better. Well, now that you're already spending $1000, might as well just do the extra $500 and get the pro..." Every product lineup is designed that way. It gets you thinking "eh, what's an extra $200" and slowly moves you up until you land at the highest tier. Now that everything is using the same silicon, it costs Apple very little to maintain all these variants (that are mostly binning), so there's little reason not to.
  - snuxoll 7mo ago
    > Now that everything is using the same silicon, it costs Apple very little to maintain all these variants (that are mostly binning), so there's little reason not to. Don't underestimate how much of a bitch it is to maintain all the separate SKUs. This isn't the old CTO days where you had: 1 chassis, N mainboards for different CPU/GPU combinations, a bunch of SODIMM's of varying capacities, and a couple of different fixed storage drives to toss in. When any given MBP has 2 CPU/GPU options, multiple memory options, and multiple storage options, with everything being soldered to the board? Honestly, the Neo is the one product in their portable lineup that doesn't cause a massive headache for logistics. But...even then, Tim Cook is CEO still, and he is a supply chain guy, so you better believe this is top of his list when it comes to their product lineup. You don't increase operational complexity for no reason, because that is where the cost for every product lies for them, it's not just dealing with silicon binning.
    - mschuster91 7mo ago
      > But...even then, Tim Cook is CEO still, and he is a supply chain guy, so you better believe this is top of his list when it comes to their product lineup. You don't increase operational complexity for no reason, because that is where the cost for every product lies for them, it's not just dealing with silicon binning. Sure... but when looking at sales numbers, HP and Apple are tied by monthly sales volume on Amazon [1], with everyone else being widely behind them. But HP has almost 300 models, Apple much, much less - and Apple can react much, much faster because they almost directly run the production sites and mostly sell themselves, so they can produce an initial run of products and whenever a store or a region runs out of one specific variant, they just tell Foxconn to, say, instead of making a run with black casings they now make a day worth of gray casings, ship that onto a plane and that's it. HP, Dell et al? Their inventory gets distributed by an intricate web of middlemen who all need buffer. [1] https://laptopmedia.com/highlights/august-2025-best-selling-laptop-brands-on-amazon-usa-apple-reigns-in-revenue-hp-leads-in-volume-and-variety/ https://laptopmedia.com/highlights/august-2025-best-selling-...
  - bombcar 7mo ago
    Those kind of pricing ladders are "fine" because at no point do you have to really make a decision. The problem is when it splits and you have a tree where what branch you go down precludes you from options on the other branch you might want.
  - lotsofpulp 7mo ago
    > MacBook Neo, $599. Great but maybe I want Touch ID & more storage, ok $699. Well at this point now it's "only" $300 to get the air which is much better. Yes >Well, now that you're already spending $1000, might as well just do the extra $500 and get the pro..." Disagree. The Air offers additional utility and longevity for the price, the Pro offers nothing that 90% of people will ever perceive. I know a ton of people for whom the $500 would be nothing, but still get an Air rather than a Pro. Obviously, that’s not great data, but I feel like the jump from Air to Pro just doesn’t happen or won’t happen compared to jumps from Neo to Air.
  - NetMageSCW 7mo ago
    You keep saying $200 extra - I don’t think you know what that means.
  - benjiro3000 7mo ago
    [dead]
  - tpmoney 7mo ago
    I think you are completely misremembering what the Apple product lineup looked like even with the Steve Jobs cleanup. At its absolute simplest, it contained the iMac, iBook, PowerMac and PowerBook lines. Within each line was a "Good", "Better" and "Best" pre-configured model each being a few hundred different from the other and each of those models was further configurable to add additional storage / memory etc. That level of simplicity lasted from approximately 1999 to 2002 when the 14 inch iBooks, the 17 inch iMacs and the eMacs were introduced, followed by the 12 and 17 inch powerbooks in 2003. By 2005 they had also introduced the Mac Mini. And again most of these had a "good", "better", "best" variant, though in some cases (like the first 17 inch iMacs, the "best" tier was also the next model variant). Apple's lineup is undeniably more complicated now than it has been in the past, but the simplification was never really about cutting model types down, so much as it was about making distinct model categories that people could easily understand why they would pick one or the other. I think they still do a relatively good job at retaining that distinction, and I agree that the iPad lineup is probably the most muddled. Though special mention goes to the "Macbook Pro with M4 Pro" branding, which anyone should have caught and thought that maybe they needed a better moniker than "Pro" for the processor variant (and of course also, is the "Pro", the "Max" or the "Ultra" the best?)
    - einr 7mo ago
      That level of simplicity lasted from approximately 1999 to 2002 Don’t forget the G4 Cube (most people do ;) which was also around at this time for reasons that are mostly unclear (looks cool though)
- 0x457 7mo ago
  I think It makes sense for iPad line up to be this way. Very clear feature segmentation that make sense. Most is directly result of underlying hardware. For consumer it's also very easy: - decide on size - go from your budget - if still too many SKUs go by features What features? Thunderbolt, Screen, Apple Pencil, Face ID Alternatively if you know what features you want, start with that. If you're struggling to choose which iPad you need then you might want an iPad for the sake of having an iPad (in which case get Air).
  - wlesieutre 7mo ago
    Yeah, I don't think this lineup is particular crazy: - 8.3", one tier (mini) - 11", three tiers (iPad, Air, Pro) - 13", two tiers (Air, Pro) Could you spend the same amount of money on a regular 11" iPad with a lot of storage, or an iPad Air with less storage? Sure. Some people want lots of storage. Other people don't care but want a wide gamut screen, faster processor, and better pen capabilities. It's nothing like trying to pick a laptop from Dell where you have to spend hours digging around to even figure out what your options are. If someone asked me which iPad to buy we could figure it out in under 5 minutes.
    - jonplackett 7mo ago
      Also it’s just one adjective per device. Compare that to the dell pro max premium
      - wlesieutre 7mo ago
        Hilariously when I looked that one up the Dell store page says Dell Pro Max 16 Premium Laptop Model: MA14250 I think they have the model number wrong and corresponds to a 14” version, because further down the “order code” is bts101_ma16250_usx Even Dell can’t keep their computers straight. https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/dell-pro-max-16-premium-laptop/spd/dell-pro-max-ma16250-laptop https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/dell-pro-max-16... Edit: confirmed, here is a different laptop listed with the same model number https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/dell-pro-max-14-premium-laptop/spd/dell-pro-max-ma14250-laptop https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/dell-pro-max-14...
- etchalon 7mo ago
  I'd reference all the iPod models Steve oversaw the introduction of (iPod, iPod Nano, iPod shuffle, iPod Mini, iPod Classic, iPod Touch)
  - asymco 7mo ago
    With iPod line Apple was experimenting with completely new form factor, not so much with iPad or MacBook.
    - etchalon 7mo ago
      The Neo is a different form factor than the Air is a different form factor from the 14 inch is a different form factor than the 16. "No, it's not! It's a laptop!" And most iPods were iPods. The iPod touch was just an iPhone, and the shuffle lacked a screen.
- deleted 7mo ago
  [deleted]
- labcomputer 7mo ago
  With respect, I think you're misremembering the product lineup in the 1994/5/6 era. Back then, Apple had 16 to 32 distinct models[1] of just desktop computer (just the desktops!) with little to distinguish them. In many cases, the exact same internal hardware was shipped in two different boxes as two models aimed at two different customers (LC/Performa/Centris/Quadra/Workgroup Server). For example, the "LC 550" and "Performa 550" were the exact same computer[2] with two different names on the front, meant to be sold to the educational and home markets. That's extremely confusing for the consumer. You had the same internal hardware being sold for two different price points, and computers with significantly different performance sold at the same price point. You don't want your customer to get analysis paralysis and give up before they purchase. The point of Jobs's simplification is that there is one option for you to pick at a given price point in a given category of tablet/laptop/desktop, and that pricing and capability are clearly aligned. I don't see where Apple has gotten away from that. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mac_models https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mac_models [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_LC_500_series https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_LC_500_series
SllX 7mo ago
The iPad line makes a lot more sense when you’re just shopping and realize you’re just on a price ladder. Start from the bottom and climb up picking up features along the way until you reach the point where you’ve got what you want or you’re not willing to spend more money. The Neo is either easy to recommend or rather easy to not recommend. It has a fixed 8GB of RAM. I think that’s too little for a modern Mac operating on the modern web. Others… disagree. Either way, it might entice some schools and school districts assuming they can volume discounts where 8GB is probably enough and it fills the spot in the Walmart part of the sales channel previously occupied by an 8GB RAM M1 MacBook Air Apple hadn’t sold itself in years.
- dhosek 7mo ago
  From all the reviews, those of us who are skeptical of 8GB of RAM are very much wrong (I’m guessing it’s lingering PTSD from being stuck on underperforming systems with too little RAM that makes us buy much more RAM than we actually need). I’m inches away from buying a couple of these for my kids.
  - jrockway 7mo ago
    Back in 2000 I got the M1 Air with 8G of RAM (needed the cheapest Mac to test some arm64 stuff) and that laptop served me very well. I never felt RAM-limited. I was always expecting to run out of memory during a big Bazel build or something, but never did. It isn't the most powerful computer in the world but I never ran into any problems... so it's probably an OK compromise for most people, especially in the world where RAM is scarce because of AI datacenter buildouts.
    - jonhohle 7mo ago
      The M1 Air would have blown people’s minds in 2000. 128MB of RAM was luxurious at the time for a laptop. In 2003 I borrowed and bought several sticks for a presentation (senior thesis on 3D presentation software), and got to 1GB in my desktop and felt like I’d broken some law of physics. Shortly after I had a TiBook (PowerBook G4) that was _only_ 1-inch thick! Compared to 1.75” Dells my coworkers had, it seemed like the future. DVD drive, modem, Ethernet, full sized DVI port, FireWire, WiFi, Bluetooth, optical audio in and out, gigantic display with a bezel that was unrivaled for years, even among Macs. What a beast! (I know you meant 2020, but it’s fun to think about the air in 2000).
calf 7mo ago
It is giving me choice paralysis, last week I made a mental graph of the ones I wanted and went over all node pairs choose 2, now it's down to waiting for a fall M5 Mac mini paired with either: a MacBook Neo, or an iPad Air 13"; both options are very attractive for my intended usage though the latter seems higher risk since I've never used a 13 inch tablet before.
- simondotau 7mo ago
  The iPad gives you touch interaction, hand-held operation, a higher quality (albeit smaller) display, and a more resilient operating system (albeit managed). The Neo gives you a real keyboard, a bigger screen, and unified UX/software support with your desktop computer. But are you sure you need two devices? Why not just get a MacBook Air (with the same spec as your proposed Mac mini) along with a USB-C dock accessory to connect charging/keyboard/mouse/video with a single cable? Also don't underestimate the value of having a battery in your "desktop" computer. It's a free UPS.
  - simonh 7mo ago
    Isn’t the Neo 13” as well? Also the iPad is usually closer to your eyes in use, so is effectively larger in terms of visual field.
fl0ki 7mo ago
I think the big difference is that if you just want to optimize for some objective, it's usually very clear how to do that from Apple's options, so there's not much research to be done. It can still be challenging to choose what's the best value when it's your own money, but at least you know what you're getting, and the quality hasn't been a concern for years.
rafaelmn 7mo ago
This is basically the performance of M1 with 8GB ram (with shittier USB/connectivity). I've seen developers who used the 8GB air a few years ago on a project. It would't work for me (even the 24GB air I have is swapping), but I can see this working for students without any problems. Buying this for a kid would be a no-brainer for me - especially if it was on a discount (and it's not uncommon for Apple stuff to get 10-20% discount drops at retailers). Even the USB 3.0 is enough to power an audio interface - should be good enough to run some basic DAW, a MIDI keyboard, electronic drums etc. Will probably pick it up for my son at some point to motivate him to learn to type.
kvgr 7mo ago
But for any real work, like coding/photo/video you just pick Pro with parameters you want and you are good. For office work you can choose air and for low level students or whatever you can have neo. You still basically know what you need, without needing to try really hard to understand it.
throw0101d 7mo ago
> The number of overlapping iPad models and variants, for example, is getting kind of crazy these days. Sort of, maybe (not)? First off there is the "mini", which is basically if you want a small screen / most portability. After that, the two questions you need to ask are "How much horsepower and storage do you need/want?" (plain vs Air/Pro), and then "How fancy of a screen do you want/need?" (Air vs Pro): * https://www.apple.com/ipad/compare/ https://www.apple.com/ipad/compare/ * https://www.apple.com/ipad/compare/?modelList=ipad-pro-11-m5,ipad-air-11-m4,ipad-11th-a16 https://www.apple.com/ipad/compare/?modelList=ipad-pro-11-m5... The "mini" is a bit of a 'wild card', but otherwise it's very close to the usual good/better/best trope (plain-iPad/Air/Pro). Laptops also now fall into the trope of good/better/best with Neo/Air/Pro.
- OJFord 7mo ago
  > Laptops also now fall into the trope of good/better/best with Neo/Air/Pro. ...until the bestest Ultra launches, as GP pointed out? (Also Air used to be 'the light one', not the standard/middling one on same spectrum.) We could say a similar thing with the Dell names above, the point is that it's confusing to work out which you need/want when there's so many, not that they don't fall in some sort of order across a line from mediocre to best.
- butlike 7mo ago
  Do I want an iPad Air or Pro? Both seem pretty thin. Why is it called 'Air'. What am I not getting with the Air? When was the last time each product was updated, since I remember a time when different models were updated at different times (and I never updated my internal barometer if this changed)? Further, I see older versions of the iPhone on display at the apple store. Does this mean I'm potentially browsing an older version of the iPad? To be fair, there was some overlap in the Jobs apple store days (when the Santa Rosa processor dropped on the MBP and you didn't know if you were getting the older model unless you asked), but it was never this bad. You had the iPad, then the iPad 2. iPhone 4->4S->5. I don't know how the 'Air' slots in between the regular and the Pro, and I don't know if I'm seeing an older model on display. The whole thing is very confusing.
  - 7mo ago
GuidoL 7mo ago
Apple stopped numbering iPads with their generation so it's pretty messy compared to iPhones. I recently spent some time to decode their entire line-up (all models ever released) and made this comparison table which might clear things up a bit: https://comparisontabl.es/ipads/ https://comparisontabl.es/ipads/

DaanDL 7mo ago

Especially with things like: will my pencil work with this iPad.

enraged_camel 7mo ago

>> The number of overlapping iPad models and variants, for example, is getting kind of crazy these days. One of the first things Steve Jobs immediately did after returning to Apple in 1997 was to kill most of Apple's product line-up, which had exploded in his absence. Too bad he's not around to save them from the same over-segmentation anymore.

thewebguyd 7mo ago
The goal is different. Jobs wanted to make the product spread simple to understand. Apple's current method is a pricing ladder, make it simple to spend $200+ more than you planned. MacBook Neo, $599. Great but maybe I want Touch ID & more storage, ok $699. Well at this point now it's "only" $300 to get the air which is much better. Well, now that you're already spending $1000, might as well just do the extra $500 and get the pro..." Every product lineup is designed that way. It gets you thinking "eh, what's an extra $200" and slowly moves you up until you land at the highest tier. Now that everything is using the same silicon, it costs Apple very little to maintain all these variants (that are mostly binning), so there's little reason not to.
- snuxoll 7mo ago
  > Now that everything is using the same silicon, it costs Apple very little to maintain all these variants (that are mostly binning), so there's little reason not to. Don't underestimate how much of a bitch it is to maintain all the separate SKUs. This isn't the old CTO days where you had: 1 chassis, N mainboards for different CPU/GPU combinations, a bunch of SODIMM's of varying capacities, and a couple of different fixed storage drives to toss in. When any given MBP has 2 CPU/GPU options, multiple memory options, and multiple storage options, with everything being soldered to the board? Honestly, the Neo is the one product in their portable lineup that doesn't cause a massive headache for logistics. But...even then, Tim Cook is CEO still, and he is a supply chain guy, so you better believe this is top of his list when it comes to their product lineup. You don't increase operational complexity for no reason, because that is where the cost for every product lies for them, it's not just dealing with silicon binning.
  - mschuster91 7mo ago
    > But...even then, Tim Cook is CEO still, and he is a supply chain guy, so you better believe this is top of his list when it comes to their product lineup. You don't increase operational complexity for no reason, because that is where the cost for every product lies for them, it's not just dealing with silicon binning. Sure... but when looking at sales numbers, HP and Apple are tied by monthly sales volume on Amazon [1], with everyone else being widely behind them. But HP has almost 300 models, Apple much, much less - and Apple can react much, much faster because they almost directly run the production sites and mostly sell themselves, so they can produce an initial run of products and whenever a store or a region runs out of one specific variant, they just tell Foxconn to, say, instead of making a run with black casings they now make a day worth of gray casings, ship that onto a plane and that's it. HP, Dell et al? Their inventory gets distributed by an intricate web of middlemen who all need buffer. [1] https://laptopmedia.com/highlights/august-2025-best-selling-laptop-brands-on-amazon-usa-apple-reigns-in-revenue-hp-leads-in-volume-and-variety/ https://laptopmedia.com/highlights/august-2025-best-selling-...
- bombcar 7mo ago
  Those kind of pricing ladders are "fine" because at no point do you have to really make a decision. The problem is when it splits and you have a tree where what branch you go down precludes you from options on the other branch you might want.
- lotsofpulp 7mo ago
  > MacBook Neo, $599. Great but maybe I want Touch ID & more storage, ok $699. Well at this point now it's "only" $300 to get the air which is much better. Yes >Well, now that you're already spending $1000, might as well just do the extra $500 and get the pro..." Disagree. The Air offers additional utility and longevity for the price, the Pro offers nothing that 90% of people will ever perceive. I know a ton of people for whom the $500 would be nothing, but still get an Air rather than a Pro. Obviously, that’s not great data, but I feel like the jump from Air to Pro just doesn’t happen or won’t happen compared to jumps from Neo to Air.
- NetMageSCW 7mo ago
  You keep saying $200 extra - I don’t think you know what that means.
- benjiro3000 7mo ago
  [dead]
- tpmoney 7mo ago
  I think you are completely misremembering what the Apple product lineup looked like even with the Steve Jobs cleanup. At its absolute simplest, it contained the iMac, iBook, PowerMac and PowerBook lines. Within each line was a "Good", "Better" and "Best" pre-configured model each being a few hundred different from the other and each of those models was further configurable to add additional storage / memory etc. That level of simplicity lasted from approximately 1999 to 2002 when the 14 inch iBooks, the 17 inch iMacs and the eMacs were introduced, followed by the 12 and 17 inch powerbooks in 2003. By 2005 they had also introduced the Mac Mini. And again most of these had a "good", "better", "best" variant, though in some cases (like the first 17 inch iMacs, the "best" tier was also the next model variant). Apple's lineup is undeniably more complicated now than it has been in the past, but the simplification was never really about cutting model types down, so much as it was about making distinct model categories that people could easily understand why they would pick one or the other. I think they still do a relatively good job at retaining that distinction, and I agree that the iPad lineup is probably the most muddled. Though special mention goes to the "Macbook Pro with M4 Pro" branding, which anyone should have caught and thought that maybe they needed a better moniker than "Pro" for the processor variant (and of course also, is the "Pro", the "Max" or the "Ultra" the best?)
  - einr 7mo ago
    That level of simplicity lasted from approximately 1999 to 2002 Don’t forget the G4 Cube (most people do ;) which was also around at this time for reasons that are mostly unclear (looks cool though)
0x457 7mo ago
I think It makes sense for iPad line up to be this way. Very clear feature segmentation that make sense. Most is directly result of underlying hardware. For consumer it's also very easy: - decide on size - go from your budget - if still too many SKUs go by features What features? Thunderbolt, Screen, Apple Pencil, Face ID Alternatively if you know what features you want, start with that. If you're struggling to choose which iPad you need then you might want an iPad for the sake of having an iPad (in which case get Air).
- wlesieutre 7mo ago
  Yeah, I don't think this lineup is particular crazy: - 8.3", one tier (mini) - 11", three tiers (iPad, Air, Pro) - 13", two tiers (Air, Pro) Could you spend the same amount of money on a regular 11" iPad with a lot of storage, or an iPad Air with less storage? Sure. Some people want lots of storage. Other people don't care but want a wide gamut screen, faster processor, and better pen capabilities. It's nothing like trying to pick a laptop from Dell where you have to spend hours digging around to even figure out what your options are. If someone asked me which iPad to buy we could figure it out in under 5 minutes.
  - jonplackett 7mo ago
    Also it’s just one adjective per device. Compare that to the dell pro max premium
    - wlesieutre 7mo ago
      Hilariously when I looked that one up the Dell store page says Dell Pro Max 16 Premium Laptop Model: MA14250 I think they have the model number wrong and corresponds to a 14” version, because further down the “order code” is bts101_ma16250_usx Even Dell can’t keep their computers straight. https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/dell-pro-max-16-premium-laptop/spd/dell-pro-max-ma16250-laptop https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/dell-pro-max-16... Edit: confirmed, here is a different laptop listed with the same model number https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/dell-pro-max-14-premium-laptop/spd/dell-pro-max-ma14250-laptop https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/dell-pro-max-14...
etchalon 7mo ago
I'd reference all the iPod models Steve oversaw the introduction of (iPod, iPod Nano, iPod shuffle, iPod Mini, iPod Classic, iPod Touch)
- asymco 7mo ago
  With iPod line Apple was experimenting with completely new form factor, not so much with iPad or MacBook.
  - etchalon 7mo ago
    The Neo is a different form factor than the Air is a different form factor from the 14 inch is a different form factor than the 16. "No, it's not! It's a laptop!" And most iPods were iPods. The iPod touch was just an iPhone, and the shuffle lacked a screen.
deleted 7mo ago
[deleted]
labcomputer 7mo ago
With respect, I think you're misremembering the product lineup in the 1994/5/6 era. Back then, Apple had 16 to 32 distinct models[1] of just desktop computer (just the desktops!) with little to distinguish them. In many cases, the exact same internal hardware was shipped in two different boxes as two models aimed at two different customers (LC/Performa/Centris/Quadra/Workgroup Server). For example, the "LC 550" and "Performa 550" were the exact same computer[2] with two different names on the front, meant to be sold to the educational and home markets. That's extremely confusing for the consumer. You had the same internal hardware being sold for two different price points, and computers with significantly different performance sold at the same price point. You don't want your customer to get analysis paralysis and give up before they purchase. The point of Jobs's simplification is that there is one option for you to pick at a given price point in a given category of tablet/laptop/desktop, and that pricing and capability are clearly aligned. I don't see where Apple has gotten away from that. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mac_models https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mac_models [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_LC_500_series https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_LC_500_series

SllX 7mo ago

The iPad line makes a lot more sense when you’re just shopping and realize you’re just on a price ladder. Start from the bottom and climb up picking up features along the way until you reach the point where you’ve got what you want or you’re not willing to spend more money. The Neo is either easy to recommend or rather easy to not recommend. It has a fixed 8GB of RAM. I think that’s too little for a modern Mac operating on the modern web. Others… disagree. Either way, it might entice some schools and school districts assuming they can volume discounts where 8GB is probably enough and it fills the spot in the Walmart part of the sales channel previously occupied by an 8GB RAM M1 MacBook Air Apple hadn’t sold itself in years.

dhosek 7mo ago
From all the reviews, those of us who are skeptical of 8GB of RAM are very much wrong (I’m guessing it’s lingering PTSD from being stuck on underperforming systems with too little RAM that makes us buy much more RAM than we actually need). I’m inches away from buying a couple of these for my kids.
- jrockway 7mo ago
  Back in 2000 I got the M1 Air with 8G of RAM (needed the cheapest Mac to test some arm64 stuff) and that laptop served me very well. I never felt RAM-limited. I was always expecting to run out of memory during a big Bazel build or something, but never did. It isn't the most powerful computer in the world but I never ran into any problems... so it's probably an OK compromise for most people, especially in the world where RAM is scarce because of AI datacenter buildouts.
  - jonhohle 7mo ago
    The M1 Air would have blown people’s minds in 2000. 128MB of RAM was luxurious at the time for a laptop. In 2003 I borrowed and bought several sticks for a presentation (senior thesis on 3D presentation software), and got to 1GB in my desktop and felt like I’d broken some law of physics. Shortly after I had a TiBook (PowerBook G4) that was _only_ 1-inch thick! Compared to 1.75” Dells my coworkers had, it seemed like the future. DVD drive, modem, Ethernet, full sized DVI port, FireWire, WiFi, Bluetooth, optical audio in and out, gigantic display with a bezel that was unrivaled for years, even among Macs. What a beast! (I know you meant 2020, but it’s fun to think about the air in 2000).

calf 7mo ago

It is giving me choice paralysis, last week I made a mental graph of the ones I wanted and went over all node pairs choose 2, now it's down to waiting for a fall M5 Mac mini paired with either: a MacBook Neo, or an iPad Air 13"; both options are very attractive for my intended usage though the latter seems higher risk since I've never used a 13 inch tablet before.

simondotau 7mo ago
The iPad gives you touch interaction, hand-held operation, a higher quality (albeit smaller) display, and a more resilient operating system (albeit managed). The Neo gives you a real keyboard, a bigger screen, and unified UX/software support with your desktop computer. But are you sure you need two devices? Why not just get a MacBook Air (with the same spec as your proposed Mac mini) along with a USB-C dock accessory to connect charging/keyboard/mouse/video with a single cable? Also don't underestimate the value of having a battery in your "desktop" computer. It's a free UPS.
- simonh 7mo ago
  Isn’t the Neo 13” as well? Also the iPad is usually closer to your eyes in use, so is effectively larger in terms of visual field.

fl0ki 7mo ago

I think the big difference is that if you just want to optimize for some objective, it's usually very clear how to do that from Apple's options, so there's not much research to be done. It can still be challenging to choose what's the best value when it's your own money, but at least you know what you're getting, and the quality hasn't been a concern for years.

rafaelmn 7mo ago

This is basically the performance of M1 with 8GB ram (with shittier USB/connectivity). I've seen developers who used the 8GB air a few years ago on a project. It would't work for me (even the 24GB air I have is swapping), but I can see this working for students without any problems. Buying this for a kid would be a no-brainer for me - especially if it was on a discount (and it's not uncommon for Apple stuff to get 10-20% discount drops at retailers). Even the USB 3.0 is enough to power an audio interface - should be good enough to run some basic DAW, a MIDI keyboard, electronic drums etc. Will probably pick it up for my son at some point to motivate him to learn to type.

kvgr 7mo ago

But for any real work, like coding/photo/video you just pick Pro with parameters you want and you are good. For office work you can choose air and for low level students or whatever you can have neo. You still basically know what you need, without needing to try really hard to understand it.

throw0101d 7mo ago

> The number of overlapping iPad models and variants, for example, is getting kind of crazy these days. Sort of, maybe (not)? First off there is the "mini", which is basically if you want a small screen / most portability. After that, the two questions you need to ask are "How much horsepower and storage do you need/want?" (plain vs Air/Pro), and then "How fancy of a screen do you want/need?" (Air vs Pro): * https://www.apple.com/ipad/compare/ https://www.apple.com/ipad/compare/ * https://www.apple.com/ipad/compare/?modelList=ipad-pro-11-m5,ipad-air-11-m4,ipad-11th-a16 https://www.apple.com/ipad/compare/?modelList=ipad-pro-11-m5... The "mini" is a bit of a 'wild card', but otherwise it's very close to the usual good/better/best trope (plain-iPad/Air/Pro). Laptops also now fall into the trope of good/better/best with Neo/Air/Pro.

OJFord 7mo ago
> Laptops also now fall into the trope of good/better/best with Neo/Air/Pro. ...until the bestest Ultra launches, as GP pointed out? (Also Air used to be 'the light one', not the standard/middling one on same spectrum.) We could say a similar thing with the Dell names above, the point is that it's confusing to work out which you need/want when there's so many, not that they don't fall in some sort of order across a line from mediocre to best.
butlike 7mo ago
Do I want an iPad Air or Pro? Both seem pretty thin. Why is it called 'Air'. What am I not getting with the Air? When was the last time each product was updated, since I remember a time when different models were updated at different times (and I never updated my internal barometer if this changed)? Further, I see older versions of the iPhone on display at the apple store. Does this mean I'm potentially browsing an older version of the iPad? To be fair, there was some overlap in the Jobs apple store days (when the Santa Rosa processor dropped on the MBP and you didn't know if you were getting the older model unless you asked), but it was never this bad. You had the iPad, then the iPad 2. iPhone 4->4S->5. I don't know how the 'Air' slots in between the regular and the Pro, and I don't know if I'm seeing an older model on display. The whole thing is very confusing.
- 7mo ago

GuidoL 7mo ago

Apple stopped numbering iPads with their generation so it's pretty messy compared to iPhones. I recently spent some time to decode their entire line-up (all models ever released) and made this comparison table which might clear things up a bit: https://comparisontabl.es/ipads/ https://comparisontabl.es/ipads/