4 ms·

YouTube ads are about to get even longer and they'll be unskippable

48 points by robtherobber 7mo ago

rolph 7mo ago
google is seeing an uptick in viewing with a smartTV, so they think that means family time in the livingroom, thus 70s style TV is the model of the day. have they considered home office, phones are just too small, and studios where you watch the screen and perform the "how too" from across the room are getting to be a thing [mancaves, shesheds]. i would definately have a curated, edited feed of YTz to a group viewing location, rather than a raw stream.
- add-sub-mul-div 7mo ago
  Since 1999 we've had the DVR and commercials have been effectively skippable if you want to avoid them. This is worse than that. Not having the freedom and control to seek through the video stream ("unskippable") was innovated by the streaming takeover.
  - rolph 7mo ago
    back in the place between 70s-80s we used to identify commercials with an audio compression detector, blank frame detector, generally a device that detects artifacts of the ad process. then we could record on a VCR without ads as we went about our day. it was a cat and mouse game eventually with programs being salted to spoof ad detection, regulations requireing a broadcaster to have some demarcation between ad and program, and on... streaming has one fatal flaw, that decides final ownership, and that is eventually, the content is in the clear, in a space accessible to a technichal user, that can be replicated, and fitted with the requirements for a persistent file, and thus "pwnd". at this point the ad can be snipped out, and is gone. its a bad model, ads should be part of the content, depictions of product usage, and consumption, as part of the content seemed like an unobtrusive, actually pleasant association, every time ive seen it done, vs some screaming loud volume, shocking switch of subject and mood associated with a product that you dont need, and will subconsciously avoid as a result of the operant conditioning.
ducktastic 7mo ago
They really are unbearable: I use Duck Player primarily to view Youtube, connected via city wifi and every so often, I receive a message saying that youtube thinks I am a bot presumably because they are not getting ad revenue. Of course I have a workaround for this but annoying nonetheless.
nerdsniper 7mo ago
I just pay for YT Premium. I’m genuinely curious why that option is so controversial? Happy to get people’s thoughts. So I never see any ads and I feel like I get enough value for what I pay. It even helps me skip in-content ads with a single click.
- legitronics 7mo ago
  I also pay for yt premium. Most people do not seem to like pay to play, pay to “win”, etc and this falls either very close or in that category. The long term economics seem questionable to me. Google can always turn up the heat a bit more with ads, charge more for the ads, play more of them, etc when they need to be more profitable. The only way they make more from premium subscribers is charging more and they will lose people each time they do. I guess technically they could make more if premium watchers viewed less content but there’s a pretty hard floor and I suspect the economics of it are much like soda fountains. I’m afraid ultimately if premium becomes too large of a user base Google would need to turn it into an “ad-lite” experience to increase profits. Then we’re in an even worse place.
  - steve_adams_86 7mo ago
    > I’m afraid ultimately if premium becomes too large of a user base Google would need to turn it into an “ad-lite” experience I wouldn't hesitate to cancel my subscription and stop using the platform at that point. Life can go on without YouTube.
    - karmakurtisaani 7mo ago
      Or you could move on to the premium+ package, which costs more, but has no ads (yet).
- YCpedohaven 7mo ago
  I pay for YT premium, but it’s less because of the ads, and more because of the stupid restriction of not being allowed background play if my phone is locked.
xedrac 7mo ago
Maybe this will help people kick their doom scrolling habit.
- downboots 7mo ago
  That's just doom scrolling on a different axis
hedora 7mo ago
On our TV, using the official YT app, it just rapid cycles through the first few seconds of each ad. As far as I can tell, this is part of a Google-operated display fraud scheme. I wonder how the new standards will impact our user experience. Will they just halve the length of time each video is run and charge for twice as many impressions? They could also just run the ads in the background (with the video displayed over it + ad audio muted).
Razengan 7mo ago
Has anyone ever actually purchased anything because you saw an ad for it?
- bgun 7mo ago
  If you're asking whether advertising works, there is plenty of science making clear that it does, without fishing for anecdata. As to whether every company buying ads is making a good investment, mileage may vary - but the blunt answer to your question is that yes, people do purchase things because they saw ads for it, the advertising economy is well understood. Companies like Google whose fortunes rest almost entirely on the known efficacy of advertising are not full of idiots who have never thought about whether or not ads actually work. "Is an economy based on selling attention ultimately the most beneficial and productive one for all participants" is a separate question, but it's not the question you're asking.
  - Razengan 7mo ago
    > there is plenty of science making clear that it does Funded, ran, and interpreted by whom? I can't remember the last time I bought anything just because of its ad, that I already did not know about or was going to buy anyway, nor I know anyone who did. In fact, if I see an ad TOO often, it permanently turns me off the product or service. The whole ads racket seems like a case of an emperor with no clothes at best, and a thin veil for mass surveillance at worst.
- busterarm 7mo ago
  Yes, specifically because of Youtube videos. Not "ads" specifically but sponsored videos.
- dingaling 7mo ago
  The problem is, you don't realise that you did. One day you'll need to buy something outside your sphere of knowledge; a washing machine, drain cleaner, car tyres, whatever. The seeds of biased selection have already been implanted by years of conditioning.
ajay-b 7mo ago
Does anyone have a good study as to how much advertising is too much advertising? There are some content creators on YouTube I enjoy watching but it's an ad every five minutes and it just ruins it all. For some, I've reached the point where I don't bother watching anymore because the ads are just too much. I sympathize with creators wishing to make money, but ... it's just becoming relentless. I'd love to see a study or even better YouTube internal analysis of how much viewers are willing to take before they just say enough.
- Night_Thastus 7mo ago
  >0 is too much, in my view. Ads are a toxic weight on everyone who views them. I use ad-blocking as much as possible, along with things like SponsorBlock to skip such content within the video itself.
ray023 7mo ago
Why are people even so dumb to use TV apps for a fucking TV? Just connect a "computer" to the TV and play YouTube with a mouse and KB and with Brave and Sponsor Block. If they ban adblockers and Sponsor Block there will be AI solutions that let you cut the ads out in the future. Nobody should use shitty TV apps. It's like more convenient and practical to have some kind of PC like device attached to the TV for 100 other reasons as well. They are feeding this shit only to the dumb mass consumers who have no clue about anything. "Just pay for YT premium" so that an evil megacorp is using your money against you, no, thanks! Donate to creators you like as directly as they allow it. They are also dumb and let Patreon or whatever suck large percentages off their donations for whatever retarded reason.
- UtopiaPunk 7mo ago
  Lmao, this is an extremely HN post. 10/10 on the HN scale.
- michelangelo 7mo ago
  > Why are people even so dumb to use TV apps for a fucking TV? To address both the arrogant tone and the question itself: because sometimes people don’t have, don’t want to have or cannot use a computer connected to a TV. Not everyone is a HN commenter with anger issues. Most of times these devices (TVs, streaming sticks and so on…) are used by normal folks that are not comfortable with computers.
- Night_Thastus 7mo ago
  Most people don't care. What you're talking about is way more work than 99% of people want to put in. They have a TV, it has a youtube button on it. They click, they watch. Anything else is irrelevant.
- Markoff 7mo ago
  Why would you use it so complicated way when you can just use SmartTube (or TizenTube) on Android TV, both controlled conveniently with your TV remote instead of some mouse, cables, etc.
lofaszvanitt 7mo ago
Good, less youtube, more free time.
scblock 7mo ago
There are already minutes of unskippable ads when watching YouTube on a device like an Apple TV. And they come fast and furious, as bad as or worse than network TV. And the best part is that many of the ads that show up are literally scams. YouTube has no ad standards that I can tell.
tzs 7mo ago
Note that this is talking about ads when you watch via their TV app, not when you watch on your computer in an ordinary browser. The ad experience in the browser is interesting. I've watched several videos today with no ad blocking and have only seen a couple of ads which were skippable after 5 seconds. For the last year I've doing this on YouTube. • I start the day with ad blocking turned off. • As long as all the ads I get are skippable after 5 seconds, and any ads that are not pre-roll ads are not too close to the previous ad, I just skip and my annoyance level stays low. I get annoyed if the ads during the content are not well spread out. • If they put in a non-skippable ad but it is close to 5 seconds (6 seconds and 15 seconds seem to be the two shortest lengths for non-skippable ads) and it is not followed immediately by another ad I treat it like a 5 second skippable ad. • If a 6 second non-skippable ad is followed immediately by a skippable after 5 seconds ad, my annoyance level rises some. If they only do this a couple times in a day I'll probably let it slide. • Any 15 second or more non-skippable ad raises my annoyance level a lot. • If my annoyance level gets too high, by either (1) a 15+ second non-skippable ad or (2) too many of those things that are annoying but not as annoying then ad blocking gets turned on any open YouTube tabs get refreshed so it will apply to them. • Any ad they show me that is actually relevant and useful is not counted when evaluating annoyance level. This only happens rarely. I haven't kept stats but it definitely feels like over the first couple of months of doing this they changed the ad lengths, intervals, and how often they show me non-skippable ads in a way that avoids annoying me enough to turn on ad blocking. I now sometimes go over a week without turning on the ad blocker.
Funes- 7mo ago
Advertising and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race.
Markoff 7mo ago
I use on my Android TV SmartTube, you can customize pretty much anything, I don't think I have ever tried original Youtube app, but just out of curiosity I tried competition - TizenTube, which is basically default Youtube app minus ads and it was absolutely horrible experience, on home page you see like 2 giant thumbnails and that's it, can't understand how can someone stand such UI, the most basic settings are setting how big are the thumbnails, how fast is the video title scrolling, if your app doesn't have this I am not gonna use it. https://smarttubeapp.github.io https://smarttubeapp.github.io https://github.com/reisxd/TizenTubeCobalt https://github.com/reisxd/TizenTubeCobalt

48 points by robtherobber 7mo ago

rolph 7mo ago

google is seeing an uptick in viewing with a smartTV, so they think that means family time in the livingroom, thus 70s style TV is the model of the day. have they considered home office, phones are just too small, and studios where you watch the screen and perform the "how too" from across the room are getting to be a thing [mancaves, shesheds]. i would definately have a curated, edited feed of YTz to a group viewing location, rather than a raw stream.

add-sub-mul-div 7mo ago
Since 1999 we've had the DVR and commercials have been effectively skippable if you want to avoid them. This is worse than that. Not having the freedom and control to seek through the video stream ("unskippable") was innovated by the streaming takeover.
- rolph 7mo ago
  back in the place between 70s-80s we used to identify commercials with an audio compression detector, blank frame detector, generally a device that detects artifacts of the ad process. then we could record on a VCR without ads as we went about our day. it was a cat and mouse game eventually with programs being salted to spoof ad detection, regulations requireing a broadcaster to have some demarcation between ad and program, and on... streaming has one fatal flaw, that decides final ownership, and that is eventually, the content is in the clear, in a space accessible to a technichal user, that can be replicated, and fitted with the requirements for a persistent file, and thus "pwnd". at this point the ad can be snipped out, and is gone. its a bad model, ads should be part of the content, depictions of product usage, and consumption, as part of the content seemed like an unobtrusive, actually pleasant association, every time ive seen it done, vs some screaming loud volume, shocking switch of subject and mood associated with a product that you dont need, and will subconsciously avoid as a result of the operant conditioning.

ducktastic 7mo ago

They really are unbearable: I use Duck Player primarily to view Youtube, connected via city wifi and every so often, I receive a message saying that youtube thinks I am a bot presumably because they are not getting ad revenue. Of course I have a workaround for this but annoying nonetheless.

nerdsniper 7mo ago

I just pay for YT Premium. I’m genuinely curious why that option is so controversial? Happy to get people’s thoughts. So I never see any ads and I feel like I get enough value for what I pay. It even helps me skip in-content ads with a single click.

legitronics 7mo ago
I also pay for yt premium. Most people do not seem to like pay to play, pay to “win”, etc and this falls either very close or in that category. The long term economics seem questionable to me. Google can always turn up the heat a bit more with ads, charge more for the ads, play more of them, etc when they need to be more profitable. The only way they make more from premium subscribers is charging more and they will lose people each time they do. I guess technically they could make more if premium watchers viewed less content but there’s a pretty hard floor and I suspect the economics of it are much like soda fountains. I’m afraid ultimately if premium becomes too large of a user base Google would need to turn it into an “ad-lite” experience to increase profits. Then we’re in an even worse place.
- steve_adams_86 7mo ago
  > I’m afraid ultimately if premium becomes too large of a user base Google would need to turn it into an “ad-lite” experience I wouldn't hesitate to cancel my subscription and stop using the platform at that point. Life can go on without YouTube.
  - karmakurtisaani 7mo ago
    Or you could move on to the premium+ package, which costs more, but has no ads (yet).
YCpedohaven 7mo ago
I pay for YT premium, but it’s less because of the ads, and more because of the stupid restriction of not being allowed background play if my phone is locked.

xedrac 7mo ago

Maybe this will help people kick their doom scrolling habit.

downboots 7mo ago
That's just doom scrolling on a different axis

hedora 7mo ago

On our TV, using the official YT app, it just rapid cycles through the first few seconds of each ad. As far as I can tell, this is part of a Google-operated display fraud scheme. I wonder how the new standards will impact our user experience. Will they just halve the length of time each video is run and charge for twice as many impressions? They could also just run the ads in the background (with the video displayed over it + ad audio muted).

Razengan 7mo ago

Has anyone ever actually purchased anything because you saw an ad for it?

bgun 7mo ago
If you're asking whether advertising works, there is plenty of science making clear that it does, without fishing for anecdata. As to whether every company buying ads is making a good investment, mileage may vary - but the blunt answer to your question is that yes, people do purchase things because they saw ads for it, the advertising economy is well understood. Companies like Google whose fortunes rest almost entirely on the known efficacy of advertising are not full of idiots who have never thought about whether or not ads actually work. "Is an economy based on selling attention ultimately the most beneficial and productive one for all participants" is a separate question, but it's not the question you're asking.
- Razengan 7mo ago
  > there is plenty of science making clear that it does Funded, ran, and interpreted by whom? I can't remember the last time I bought anything just because of its ad, that I already did not know about or was going to buy anyway, nor I know anyone who did. In fact, if I see an ad TOO often, it permanently turns me off the product or service. The whole ads racket seems like a case of an emperor with no clothes at best, and a thin veil for mass surveillance at worst.
busterarm 7mo ago
Yes, specifically because of Youtube videos. Not "ads" specifically but sponsored videos.
dingaling 7mo ago
The problem is, you don't realise that you did. One day you'll need to buy something outside your sphere of knowledge; a washing machine, drain cleaner, car tyres, whatever. The seeds of biased selection have already been implanted by years of conditioning.

ajay-b 7mo ago

Does anyone have a good study as to how much advertising is too much advertising? There are some content creators on YouTube I enjoy watching but it's an ad every five minutes and it just ruins it all. For some, I've reached the point where I don't bother watching anymore because the ads are just too much. I sympathize with creators wishing to make money, but ... it's just becoming relentless. I'd love to see a study or even better YouTube internal analysis of how much viewers are willing to take before they just say enough.

Night_Thastus 7mo ago
>0 is too much, in my view. Ads are a toxic weight on everyone who views them. I use ad-blocking as much as possible, along with things like SponsorBlock to skip such content within the video itself.

ray023 7mo ago

Why are people even so dumb to use TV apps for a fucking TV? Just connect a "computer" to the TV and play YouTube with a mouse and KB and with Brave and Sponsor Block. If they ban adblockers and Sponsor Block there will be AI solutions that let you cut the ads out in the future. Nobody should use shitty TV apps. It's like more convenient and practical to have some kind of PC like device attached to the TV for 100 other reasons as well. They are feeding this shit only to the dumb mass consumers who have no clue about anything. "Just pay for YT premium" so that an evil megacorp is using your money against you, no, thanks! Donate to creators you like as directly as they allow it. They are also dumb and let Patreon or whatever suck large percentages off their donations for whatever retarded reason.

UtopiaPunk 7mo ago
Lmao, this is an extremely HN post. 10/10 on the HN scale.
michelangelo 7mo ago
> Why are people even so dumb to use TV apps for a fucking TV? To address both the arrogant tone and the question itself: because sometimes people don’t have, don’t want to have or cannot use a computer connected to a TV. Not everyone is a HN commenter with anger issues. Most of times these devices (TVs, streaming sticks and so on…) are used by normal folks that are not comfortable with computers.
Night_Thastus 7mo ago
Most people don't care. What you're talking about is way more work than 99% of people want to put in. They have a TV, it has a youtube button on it. They click, they watch. Anything else is irrelevant.
Markoff 7mo ago
Why would you use it so complicated way when you can just use SmartTube (or TizenTube) on Android TV, both controlled conveniently with your TV remote instead of some mouse, cables, etc.

lofaszvanitt 7mo ago

Good, less youtube, more free time.

scblock 7mo ago

There are already minutes of unskippable ads when watching YouTube on a device like an Apple TV. And they come fast and furious, as bad as or worse than network TV. And the best part is that many of the ads that show up are literally scams. YouTube has no ad standards that I can tell.

tzs 7mo ago

Note that this is talking about ads when you watch via their TV app, not when you watch on your computer in an ordinary browser. The ad experience in the browser is interesting. I've watched several videos today with no ad blocking and have only seen a couple of ads which were skippable after 5 seconds. For the last year I've doing this on YouTube. • I start the day with ad blocking turned off. • As long as all the ads I get are skippable after 5 seconds, and any ads that are not pre-roll ads are not too close to the previous ad, I just skip and my annoyance level stays low. I get annoyed if the ads during the content are not well spread out. • If they put in a non-skippable ad but it is close to 5 seconds (6 seconds and 15 seconds seem to be the two shortest lengths for non-skippable ads) and it is not followed immediately by another ad I treat it like a 5 second skippable ad. • If a 6 second non-skippable ad is followed immediately by a skippable after 5 seconds ad, my annoyance level rises some. If they only do this a couple times in a day I'll probably let it slide. • Any 15 second or more non-skippable ad raises my annoyance level a lot. • If my annoyance level gets too high, by either (1) a 15+ second non-skippable ad or (2) too many of those things that are annoying but not as annoying then ad blocking gets turned on any open YouTube tabs get refreshed so it will apply to them. • Any ad they show me that is actually relevant and useful is not counted when evaluating annoyance level. This only happens rarely. I haven't kept stats but it definitely feels like over the first couple of months of doing this they changed the ad lengths, intervals, and how often they show me non-skippable ads in a way that avoids annoying me enough to turn on ad blocking. I now sometimes go over a week without turning on the ad blocker.

Funes- 7mo ago

Advertising and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race.

Markoff 7mo ago

I use on my Android TV SmartTube, you can customize pretty much anything, I don't think I have ever tried original Youtube app, but just out of curiosity I tried competition - TizenTube, which is basically default Youtube app minus ads and it was absolutely horrible experience, on home page you see like 2 giant thumbnails and that's it, can't understand how can someone stand such UI, the most basic settings are setting how big are the thumbnails, how fast is the video title scrolling, if your app doesn't have this I am not gonna use it. https://smarttubeapp.github.io https://smarttubeapp.github.io https://github.com/reisxd/TizenTubeCobalt https://github.com/reisxd/TizenTubeCobalt