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> It is the young people that are growing up conditioned to press accept It's really alarming, actually. I run the cyber security training & phishing simulatio

> It is the young people that are growing up conditioned to press accept It's really alarming, actually. I run the cyber security training & phishing simulations at my work, and it's the younger employees that struggle the most. It's like they just assume that everything on the web is trustworthy. It's not hard to see why though. They grew up with app stores & locked down devices. No concept of a file or file system, no concept of software outside of the curated store & webapps. People that never had to take responsibility for their own digital safety because "someone else" (Google, Apple) always did it for them.

darknavi 8mo ago
Maybe we should make young learners in primary school use "infected" Windows XP so they can dodge spam popups and learn what and what not to click.
- thewebguyd 8mo ago
  Growing up I had a "computing" class in high school. It's where I learned to type, but also learned the basics of using both macOS(9 at the time) and Windows. It was also drilled into me that the default state of anything on the internet is to be untrusted and potentially harmful. It also helped that you could actually tinker with things, and there were plenty of foot guns around to drill that lesson home. Somewhere along the way that message got lost and didn't get communicated to the young ones, and I'm not even that old (38).
- whywhywhywhy 8mo ago
  They'd just click it away every time, when my nephew got a gaming laptop he'd play mindcraft and the windows sticky keys popup would be firing constantly must have seen him dismiss it 15 times before I offered to show him how to get rid of it.
  - whywhywhywhy 8mo ago
    Just remembered, even more distressing he first said "No it's ok" until I insisted it had to be solved if he wanted to game on it and could be easily solved.
adventured 8mo ago
That's an exaggeration. Young people on average have grown up with drastically greater understanding of what a file is than any other generation that has come before them. They grew up using Chromebooks or laptops in school, constantly interacting with the local file systems, uploading files to Instagram and TikTok from the file systems on their smartphones, browsing their phones for files constantly. They know what a file is, they use & manage files more than any other generation prior. No other prior generation comes close. Compare them to people growing up in the 1980s. The average person at that time was overwhelmingly oblivious to computing very broadly, their grasp of a "file" as a concept would have been close to non-existent. That was just 40 years ago. In the mid 1980s a mere 10% of US households had home computers. And that was a high mark globally, it was drastically lower in nearly every other country (closer to zero in eg China, India at that time). The number of people routinely using office PCs was still extremely low. Today young people have a computer in their hand for hours each day, and they knowingly manage files throughout the day.
- raw_anon_1111 8mo ago
  You don’t upload a “file” in a “folder” to TikTok. You upload a “video” from your “library”. Consumers have been conditioned to stop thinking about files especially when it comes to media since iTunes and the iPod in 2001.
  - esseph 8mo ago
    > files especially when it comes to media since iTunes and the iPod in 2001 As a non-Apple user, this is not something that happened to me. I literally have a "Files" app on my Android phone and my laptop/desktop.
    - jen20 8mo ago
      Both iPhone and iPad have an app named "Files" too.
      - deleted 8mo ago
        [deleted]
andsoitis 8mo ago
> It's like they just assume that everything on the web is trustworthy. > It's not hard to see why though. They grew up with app stores & locked down devices. When we create a safer world, people’s defense mechanisms naturally atrophy or are never developed in the first place.
- thewebguyd 8mo ago
  The problem is, we haven't really created a safer world. We created an illusion of safety by taking away agency. We might be safer in terms of vulnerabilities, root exploits, RCEs, etc. but the internet is still full of malware, scams are still just as rampant. Vigilance is still very much required, but is no longer taught. Look at all the malware available on the Play Store. The curation does nothing but create an illusion of safety.
  - Forgeties79 8mo ago
    It’s absolutely safer browsing the internet now than it was when I was a kid. Getting a virus or equivalent on your phone is no small feat
    - asdfman123 8mo ago
      The late 90s internet was filled with predators, skeeziness, and viruses that would break your computer and require a reformatting. That stuff is still there if you look for it, but it's not on your social media feeds or in any of the apps provided through app stores.
      - gzread 8mo ago
        They don't break your computer. They still do all the other bad stuff.
        asdfman123 8mo ago
        It's really not the same magnitude at all. It's much harder to run into those problems now.
RGamma 8mo ago
People are also struggling to think about what is computed or stored where or what different wireless interfaces do. Imagine what sort of data people enter into LLMs!
- chrisjj 8mo ago
  Absolutely. With many lawyers, it is client personal data.
chrisjj 8mo ago
> They grew up with app stores & locked down devices. No concept of a file or file system I think almost every Android user has thise concepts. But on the trustworthy web assumption, I agree. The only effective remedy is a personal calamity.
- tuetuopay 8mo ago
  Are you really exposed to those concepts for daily Zoomer usage? I mean, you can spend your whole normie life using an Android phone never going to the file manager. (fwiw it's been a while since iOS also have those concepts)
SkyBelow 8mo ago
In some sort of weird sense, it makes me appreciate the 'free armor trimming', 'alt F4 helps block attacks in pvp', and similar people in RuneScape. It gave young me a very low stakes environment to learn about scams, losing only what amounts to a little bit of my time. I wonder if there is an argument that we should encourage a certain level of scamming in video games just for the lessons it teaches at low cost? Alas, this isn't generalizable to society at large.

darknavi 8mo ago

Maybe we should make young learners in primary school use "infected" Windows XP so they can dodge spam popups and learn what and what not to click.

thewebguyd 8mo ago
Growing up I had a "computing" class in high school. It's where I learned to type, but also learned the basics of using both macOS(9 at the time) and Windows. It was also drilled into me that the default state of anything on the internet is to be untrusted and potentially harmful. It also helped that you could actually tinker with things, and there were plenty of foot guns around to drill that lesson home. Somewhere along the way that message got lost and didn't get communicated to the young ones, and I'm not even that old (38).
whywhywhywhy 8mo ago
They'd just click it away every time, when my nephew got a gaming laptop he'd play mindcraft and the windows sticky keys popup would be firing constantly must have seen him dismiss it 15 times before I offered to show him how to get rid of it.
- whywhywhywhy 8mo ago
  Just remembered, even more distressing he first said "No it's ok" until I insisted it had to be solved if he wanted to game on it and could be easily solved.

adventured 8mo ago

That's an exaggeration. Young people on average have grown up with drastically greater understanding of what a file is than any other generation that has come before them. They grew up using Chromebooks or laptops in school, constantly interacting with the local file systems, uploading files to Instagram and TikTok from the file systems on their smartphones, browsing their phones for files constantly. They know what a file is, they use & manage files more than any other generation prior. No other prior generation comes close. Compare them to people growing up in the 1980s. The average person at that time was overwhelmingly oblivious to computing very broadly, their grasp of a "file" as a concept would have been close to non-existent. That was just 40 years ago. In the mid 1980s a mere 10% of US households had home computers. And that was a high mark globally, it was drastically lower in nearly every other country (closer to zero in eg China, India at that time). The number of people routinely using office PCs was still extremely low. Today young people have a computer in their hand for hours each day, and they knowingly manage files throughout the day.

raw_anon_1111 8mo ago
You don’t upload a “file” in a “folder” to TikTok. You upload a “video” from your “library”. Consumers have been conditioned to stop thinking about files especially when it comes to media since iTunes and the iPod in 2001.
- esseph 8mo ago
  > files especially when it comes to media since iTunes and the iPod in 2001 As a non-Apple user, this is not something that happened to me. I literally have a "Files" app on my Android phone and my laptop/desktop.
  - jen20 8mo ago
    Both iPhone and iPad have an app named "Files" too.
    - deleted 8mo ago
      [deleted]

andsoitis 8mo ago

> It's like they just assume that everything on the web is trustworthy. > It's not hard to see why though. They grew up with app stores & locked down devices. When we create a safer world, people’s defense mechanisms naturally atrophy or are never developed in the first place.

thewebguyd 8mo ago
The problem is, we haven't really created a safer world. We created an illusion of safety by taking away agency. We might be safer in terms of vulnerabilities, root exploits, RCEs, etc. but the internet is still full of malware, scams are still just as rampant. Vigilance is still very much required, but is no longer taught. Look at all the malware available on the Play Store. The curation does nothing but create an illusion of safety.
- Forgeties79 8mo ago
  It’s absolutely safer browsing the internet now than it was when I was a kid. Getting a virus or equivalent on your phone is no small feat
  - asdfman123 8mo ago
    The late 90s internet was filled with predators, skeeziness, and viruses that would break your computer and require a reformatting. That stuff is still there if you look for it, but it's not on your social media feeds or in any of the apps provided through app stores.
    - gzread 8mo ago
      They don't break your computer. They still do all the other bad stuff.
      - asdfman123 8mo ago
        It's really not the same magnitude at all. It's much harder to run into those problems now.

RGamma 8mo ago

People are also struggling to think about what is computed or stored where or what different wireless interfaces do. Imagine what sort of data people enter into LLMs!

chrisjj 8mo ago
Absolutely. With many lawyers, it is client personal data.

chrisjj 8mo ago

> They grew up with app stores & locked down devices. No concept of a file or file system I think almost every Android user has thise concepts. But on the trustworthy web assumption, I agree. The only effective remedy is a personal calamity.

tuetuopay 8mo ago
Are you really exposed to those concepts for daily Zoomer usage? I mean, you can spend your whole normie life using an Android phone never going to the file manager. (fwiw it's been a while since iOS also have those concepts)

SkyBelow 8mo ago

In some sort of weird sense, it makes me appreciate the 'free armor trimming', 'alt F4 helps block attacks in pvp', and similar people in RuneScape. It gave young me a very low stakes environment to learn about scams, losing only what amounts to a little bit of my time. I wonder if there is an argument that we should encourage a certain level of scamming in video games just for the lessons it teaches at low cost? Alas, this isn't generalizable to society at large.