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If anyone from Motorola reads this thread; the market is beyond ripe for a good shake up. Going full open source and pushing updates & openness, user control an

• CodeCompost 8mo ago
  Wat would be the compelling argument for middle managers who only think of meeting financial targets?
  • zelphirkalt 8mo ago
    Financial targets will be hit, if many people buy their phones. But the question is whether they are short term optimizing, or having it as a long term strategy.
• xandrius 8mo ago
  Yep, first party open source and long support. If this existed, you'll get people recommending it to their parents. Now the only thing I can honestly recommend is a UbuntuTouch phone but mostly to devs, for now.
  • fsflover 8mo ago
    Why not postmarketOS or Mobian?
• tim-- 8mo ago
  Can I be devils advocate and say I think this is two years too late on Motorola's side? Samsung has a great offer with their Galaxy Enterprise Edition phones. Phones with 5 year warranty. 7 years of software updates. Motorola, welcome! I wish you did this before I bought my last Samsung phone. That being said, if you can keep this up till my current phone needs replacing, you will have a customer in me, guaranteed. My Lenovo experience has surpassed that of any other computer hardware brand.
  • bnteke 8mo ago
    [dead]
  • dns_snek 8mo ago
    It's not too late, Samsung is one of the most closed Android OEMs and they're going in the wrong direction. They just removed most of the recovery menu. [1] Google is dead set on taking away our right to run software of our choice on devices that we own. I think if Motorola plays their cards right they could take the geeky enthusiast market by storm, and that's going to snowball into recommendations to friends and family, and eventually - corporate. This could be the reality in the near future: Do you want to keep using ReVanced? Motorola. Do you want to install a custom OS? Motorola. Do you want privacy? Motorola. However I think that Google could decide to sabotage them by forcing them to implement their user-hostile agenda, if I remember correctly there are conditions that OEMs must meet to be allowed access to Play Services/Play Store? Google could refuse unless Motorola/GrapheneOS enforce developers ID verification and effectively give Google unilateral control over what type of software is allowed to run on our devices. [1] https://9to5google.com/2026/02/27/samsung-galaxy-update-android-recovery-menu-removed/ https://9to5google.com/2026/02/27/samsung-galaxy-update-andr...
    • tim-- 8mo ago
      I 100% agree. It should have just happened 12 or 24 months ago. It's not too late, and there is a chance to capture some market, but it is late. If Motorola did this last year, I think they could have captured 10-20% market share. Their share will be reduced because the people who did care for long term updates have upgraded. Now they get 4+ years of updates because of Android. https://security.samsungmobile.com/workScope.smsb https://security.samsungmobile.com/workScope.smsb This is a power move on Motorola's side, and I'm here for it. There are conditions for OEM's installing any of the Google services. Although, so far it seems that graphene have been able to work around them (although, this is not a world I traverse). I don't think the standard Android user wants to install ReVanced. They don't care about custom OS's. They want support and updates. I remember the dark times where you purchased hardware, and you would be lucky to get 4 years of updates. Motorola/Lenovo are late to this game. Two years ago, people updated to phones with phones that would get monthly security updates for five years. This was new to the Android ecosystem two years ago (with the exception of maybe a few Pixel phones).
• isqueiros 8mo ago
  I'm just hoping they make figuring out contactless payments a priority.
  • wisplike 8mo ago
    Curve pay works great btw!
  • strcat 8mo ago
    Contactless payments already work on GrapheneOS via Curve Pay, PayPal and the apps of many European banks. Solving the duopoly between Apple and Google for smartphone tap-to-pay in the US isn't something GrapheneOS can do. Regulators / legislators can force Google to let GrapheneOS pass the Play Integrity API checks and Google Pay will start working.
    • UnreachableCode 8mo ago
      >Contactless payments already work on GrapheneOS via Curve Pay Are you sure about this? It was my understanding that NFC passes for gyms and stuff worked, but that if you want to pay for something with Google or Curve, you're shit outta luck
      • uyzstvqs 8mo ago
        It depends on how the payment app works. Android provides a native Contactless Payments API which can be used by any wallet app. This is local to the device and works flawlessly on GrapheneOS as well. You can set your preferred wallet app for this feature under NFC settings. Google Pay/Wallet is one of the wallet apps using this API. If you use Google Pay, you set it as your preferred wallet app, and Google will act as an intermediary between you and whatever payment method you've configured in Google Wallet. It's this Google Pay app that's broken. Banking, payment and wallet apps that implement the Contactless Payments API work normally as they should. But, some banks have lazy developers, and just hyperlink you to add your card to Google Wallet instead.
      • prmoustache 8mo ago
• bambax 8mo ago
  Agreed. That could be pretty cool. Motorola devices are already solid and reasonnably priced; if they had a GrapheneOS line that would just be fantastic.
  • chasil 8mo ago
    Lenovo abused their BIOS many years ago in such a way that it would load malware when it detected NTFS. I hope that behavior is long over. https://www.theregister.com/2015/08/12/lenovo_firmware_nasty/ https://www.theregister.com/2015/08/12/lenovo_firmware_nasty...
  • jorvi 8mo ago
    Motorola devices are terrible due to Motorola's update policy. Usually only 1-2 new Android versions max and then 2-3 years of quarterly security updates. For this GrapheneOS partnership to work, Graphene would need enough control of the software stack to offer around 7 years of updates.
• jillesvangurp 8mo ago
  There are plenty of people looking to get out of the Google/Apple sphere of influence. These are people that maybe aren't technical enough to be able to do stuff with flashing their phones. Another big hurdle is figuring out solutions for getting critical stuff working for things like payments, banking, and soon even identity cards and drivers licenses. The hard part is building an ecosystem for app providers that is easy enough for users, app developers, and device manufacturers to engage with while still being secure enough. Google/Apple are asserting a lot of control over this space right now. But their technical moat is limited to them gate keeping their own OS and devices. A more open ecosystem here could force some changes in this space. Given recent turmoil around treaties, tariffs, etc., the EU, and other regions, depending a bit less on US based software providers here would be healthy and overdue. Somebody needs to start somewhere for this to happen. However, moving the use of alternative operating systems for mobile devices beyond the hobbyist/enthusiast level is going to require a bit of work. This is the main blocker to adoption of alternatives to Android and IOS. Some policy changes would be helpful. E.g. mandating proper access to banking and other things outside of the Apple Store and Google Playstore ecosystems would be helpful. Right now, banks default to covering essentially only those two for "security reasons". That gives a de-facto oligarchy to Google and Apple. Breaking that open might require some arm twisting.
• raffael_de 8mo ago
  and a 4 to 5 inch display ...
  • coldpie 8mo ago
    They do make one with a 4" display! I'm a small phone liker. After spending years on an iPhone 13 Mini and wishing it was a little smaller, I got a Motorola Razr Ultra last year and I've been very happy with it. It has a fully functional 4" external display, and unfolds into a full-size smartphone/phablet display for when you need it. I use the little external display probably 80% of the time, but it's handy to unfold when you need it for Maps or something. I know it sounds wacky to have a foldable phone, I was nervous about it too, but give it a look. It's actually really cool.
    • rubzah 8mo ago
      Flip phone user for five years, will never get a slab again. It's weird to me more people don't use them, I guess they're expensive still.
      • ileonichwiesz 8mo ago
        Have you been using the same foldable phone for those 5 years? It’s the price, but it’s also a question of durability.
        • rubzah 8mo ago
          Same one for five years (Samsung Flip 3). It does have a crack down the middle. It's not enough to bother me, but you're right, early gens do have that problem (believe it is fixed by now).
      • lawn 8mo ago
        If Motorola releases a flip phone with GrapheneOS I'll order it on day one. I wanted one the last time I upgraded but I wanted GrapheneOS and there's no flip Pixel (only a foldable).
• neya 8mo ago
  This is just developer fantasy. The average consumer doesn't care even one bit. Is the phone smooth? Does it have a good camera? Does it have a good battery? Does it last more than 2 years? Go to some developing countries around Asia and you'll be surprised how people prioritise features when buying a phone vs developed ones. The developing countries account for most of the sales of most phone manufacturers. Phones that are like $150-200 sell like hot cakes. This is evident even in the laptop segment. What developers want and what the average consumer wants/needs are two different things. Eg. Framework laptops. Macbook Pro vs Air.
  • raincole 8mo ago
    I don't know why you need to bring developing countries into the discussion. I'm quite sure average users from developed countries don't care that either.
  • pbasista 8mo ago
    No one suggests that open and developers-friendly phones should be expensive.
    • tokioyoyo 8mo ago
      A good chunk of cheap hardware is subsidized by ads and data sales.
    • neya 8mo ago
      I agree, but they always will be expensive because they are a niche. Same reasoning as phones that focus on one niche (like photo/videographers) always end up being super expensive (eg. Xperia from Sony).
      • deleted 8mo ago
        [deleted]
      • qmarchi 8mo ago
        Disclaimer: Niche Xperia User. Not necessarily, the Xperia line of devices is varied, with nice set of tiers: 1 - Flagship $$$$ 5 - Smaller Flagship $$$ 10 - Mainline $$ Ace - $ Sony's problem is that they have garbage marketing teams that don't understand that 99% of people don't look at a spec sheet, they ask the employee at the shop for the best phone, which is gunna be the one that gets the employee the most commission. In Japan, they already have that with Docomo, AU, and Softbank. But they've failed to materialize that strategy outside of here.
• UqWBcuFx6NV4r 8mo ago
  [flagged]
  • microtonal 8mo ago
    FYI, GrapheneOS had an estimated 400,000 users a few months ago based on the number of update downloads: https://x.com/GrapheneOS/status/1992253499258892477 https://x.com/GrapheneOS/status/1992253499258892477 Sure, it's only a blip compared to GMS Android builds, but it's many more than a few neckbeards.
• raincole 8mo ago
  > a good chunk of market share Seriously how? Unless you mean "a good chunk of market share for a niche OS"?
• rapsey 8mo ago
  > Going full open source and pushing updates & openness, user control and freedom, you will gobble up a good chunk of market share. Of the enthusiast market. The absolutely worst customers to be dependent on.
  • rprend 8mo ago
    Yep. Enthusiasts are cheap, picky, and have no loyalty. They’re extremely political and are the only type of customer who will actually switch. Plus it’s a tiny market. You might eek out $50mil revenue after a decade, if you’re lucky.
• JohnLocke4 8mo ago
  The HN crowd is not representative of the entire market. Most people don't care about the operating system and only want something that 1) is simple to use 2) they already know 3) they happen to already have (most people keep their phones for many years) Also, the largest phone market in the world is the developing countries market. Cheap phones are supreme right now
  • anonym29 8mo ago
    "If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses." - Commonly misattributed to Henry Ford
    • Night_Thastus 8mo ago
      Yeah I don't think the common consumer thinks that the leap from a regular Android or Apple smartphone to something 'more open' is the leap from a horse-drawn carriage to an automobile. That's fantasy thinking.
      • anonym29 8mo ago
        You seem to be misinterpreting the implication. The implication is that the consumer would never ask for what they actually want, because the consumer can't even conceive the possibility of what they really want being available. Ask an exercise, ask yourself this: if you could offer every iPhone or Android shopper the choice between their current OS, and an otherwise exactly identical one that just wasn't listening to them, spying on them, tracking them, selling their every thought to advertisers, and shoving irrelevant ads into their face all day long, how many do you think would honestly prefer the one with all the spyware and ads? Ordinary people do want privacy of their data, autonomy over their device. They just feel so hopelessly powerless in the fight that they don't believe it's even possible to achieve any meaningful degree of privacy or control these days, and those values are less important to them than the value of having a smartphone itself, so they sacrifice those values to have a smartphone.
        • 8mo ago
• hypercube33 8mo ago
  I agree as someone who supports devices for enterprise - if the MDM works, I'd push for these. So far we only really support Apple and Samsung (Knox) because It Just Works (TM) with Intune and other MDM tools. We looked at the Lenovo phone, and I seriously considered it for personal use, but we had already left the android market for corporate owned devices by the time this hit so I cant speak to how well it does or doesn't work on MDM. Shame you couldn't buy that as a consumer.
  • hypercube33 8mo ago
    ThinkPhone*
  • JadedBlueEyes 8mo ago
    I got the ThinkPhone as a consumer (via lenovo.com) and am quite happy with it.
  • broadsidepicnic 8mo ago
    There's some road ahead here. I enrolled my graphene into my company's intune, and I had to inject the play services via adb during the enrollment, as of course the graphene doesnt have play services available in the work profile -> unable to enroll it completely without injecting some apk's there
• maxloh 8mo ago
  I don’t think so. Motorola Mobility is owned by the Chinese Lenovo, making it an adversary-owned entity in the eyes of most Western governments. Even with a fully open-source OS and first-class MDM, the company would struggle to gain significant market share. The Hardware Root of Trust and the binary blobs would still be compiled by a firm that Western governments view as a fundamental supply-chain risk.
  • alpineman 8mo ago
    I never worked in a corporate that didn't use Lenovo
    • carlmr 8mo ago
      There are MacBook companies, but Lenovo is basically the only other alternative. I've had Dell in the past, but haven't seen one in years.
    • bigfatkitten 8mo ago
      You won’t see any Lenovo in the defense industry.
      • joe_mamba 8mo ago
        Defense industry is a small fraction of the notebook market, meaning Lenovo is still no. 1 globally even when missing the global defense market
      • deleted 8mo ago
        [deleted]
      • lava_pidgeon 8mo ago
        You are aware of the existence of the Chinese defence industry?
        • evanjrowley 8mo ago
          This explains why China's defense capabilities are outpacing the west in 2026. The defense behemoth who castrates users by denying them the all-powerful TrackPoint will be doomed to irrelevance very soon.
• smm11 8mo ago
  People threatened nope-ing themselves if TikTok was removed. The percent of people who care about this sort of stuff is beyond miniscule.
• small_model 8mo ago
  I don't think so, phones are consumer devices as are laptops and tablets these days. How many people would buy a dishwasher that is hackable or uses 'open source' software vs a standard one. If you want to see how this might go look at the market share of Framework laptop vs Apple/Chrome books. You are talking 0.05% if you are lucky.
  • input_sh 8mo ago
    > You are talking 0.05% if you are lucky. That's... completely fine? One of my biggest pet peeves on this forum is someone like you mentioning half a million devices sold annually and somehow simultaneously calling that a failure. You don't have to take over the whole market to be a successful company, many companies would be perfectly happy with selling half a million devices every year (AKA 0,05% of over a billion smartphones).
    • small_model 8mo ago
      Yes of course its great, but I was replying to OP who said 'the market is beyond ripe for a good shake up'
• KurSix 8mo ago
  The real question is whether Motorola is willing to accept lower short-term margins (and possible carrier friction) in exchange for long-term brand differentiation
• selfmodruntime 8mo ago
  No one cares about these things outside the tech bubble.
• 7bit 8mo ago
  Nobody cares bro. The people who care for that are 1 out of 1000.
• system2 8mo ago
  Ah, an opensource phone so people can screw up their own security with Ai code.
• chpatrick 8mo ago
  None of that sells phones.
  • cromka 8mo ago
    Eh, wildcard statements like this. Checked your history and you sure like one-liner hit-and-runs like this one. No substance, just vague opinions. But to actually answer you properly: Heard of OnePlus? They were niche manufacturers curating to geeks like ourselves at the very beginning and THEY USED CyanogenMod ROM! When it was way, WAY more amateurish than GrapheneOS! When a market is super saturated, the only way to stand out is to experiment and see if something sticks. This is going to be a very good experiment and can absolutely sell like hot cakes, especially in Europe if they market it well. We absolutely need an – even semi – independent Android hardware here. Not that I am expecting any meaningful response from you.
    • bored13 8mo ago
      Isn't OnePlus rumored to be on their way out? At minimum, sales haven't been great, & their upmarket push into becoming a mainstream premium brand hasn't perfectly worked out for them
      • cromka 8mo ago
        That brand is 12 y/o and has between 3 and 5% market share, roughly the same as Motorola. Whether or not they make it doesn't matter, what matters is how they started as total amateurs with no brand and a beloved aftermarket ROM and where this got them.
        • jinzo 8mo ago
          They started (and still are?) as an Oppo spinoff. Very (very) far from 'total amateurs'. I would very much like something other than a Pixel for GrapheneOS. But let's not get wild expectations based on false pretenses.
          • 8mo ago
• Sarkie 8mo ago
  It'll be my next if it works
  • dt3ft 8mo ago
    Same here.
• turf_penguin 8mo ago
  I am worried the partnership with a large corporate will influence security negatively. Perhaps over time not immediate but execs and data harvesting, backdoors... I feel like it always goes one way and it's not the way a security conscious person would go.
• al_borland 8mo ago
  Only if they can make it easy to use without compromising on what makes GrapheneOS what it is. I’m in the Apple ecosystem, but was curious about it after hearing so many people talk about it. Linus Tech Tips made a video on it a while back and for those who don’t want to tinker, it sounded like it could be a bit of a nightmare. At my age, I’m not looking for my phone to become a hobby. This generally means sensible defaults for the 80%, settings for the 95%, and then more settings just behind the curtain for the 5% who really want to tinker or to cover the one-gaps from choices made for the 95%.
  • h4kunamata 8mo ago
    >At my age, I’m not looking for my phone to become a hobby. Yout first mistake was to consume Linus content. Its reviews are biased and compromised. And no, GOS is not a hobby. I have been using it for 3-4y on a brand new (back then) Google Pixel 7 PRO. You install it following the instructions on the browser, it is next-next-finish process. Once done, you use it like a normal phone but without Google Apps installed all over the place. You have the freedom to install the apps you please, when you please, while GOS itself makes sure that if you ever install Google Apps, it never has access to your data, it runs sandboxed but from an user pov, it just run. Plus the security features, you cannot break into a locked GOS. Oh the cops, airport wanna take your phone by force?? Good luck!! We receive security updates that other phones can take up to 6 months to receive. You don't need to have a bachelor degree, an engineer to use GOS, it is not a hobby either. Ironically, GOS makes me waste less time with phone, there are days that my battery is still like 78% by bed time. You use your phone more wisely, banking, news, social media if you are into it, stock market, etc, without letting Google, Samsung, Apple to harvest your shit.
  • palata 8mo ago
    > At my age, I’m not looking for my phone to become a hobby. I have been trying Linux on mobile. This is a hobby. I have been using GrapheneOS... honestly it's just like a normal Android after two steps: 1. Install GrapheneOS (their installer is incredibly good, it just works). 2. From the GrapheneOS store, install the Play Store (it's like 3 taps). After that it's a normal Android, except it's more secure and you get updates (meaning that you are on the latest version of Android, always).
• adamnemecek 8mo ago
  Gradually develop an OS that is not just an Android fork, but a full blown OS people can contribute to. And of course write it in Rust, like the problems with Java are so apparent in Android.
• bastardoperator 8mo ago
  Consumers dont care about OSS, most people dont feel enslaved, and the only market share they'll dent is Android/Google. If we're getting more android slop, I'll pass.
• poulpy123 8mo ago
  I don't think open source can get a big market share but it can give you a nice niche market of tech enthusiasts if they play their hand well. For that they need to not let the development of the OS to just the graphene os team, and to have competitive hardware, software and prices.
  • slicktux 8mo ago
    By Motorola partnering with Graphene it will allow them to get a bigger market share and also help create a niche market for open source… It’s a win win
  • hnben 8mo ago
    > I don't think open source can get a big market share but it can give you a nice niche market of tech enthusiasts companies and governments in Europe start embracing digital sovereignty. Governments start to realize, that US corporations lie, when they say they won't spy on governments officials. I am not saying, that Europe WILL increase opensource and sovereignty, but odds are good, that a cultural shift away from US-dependence will happen soon, which would include embracing of Opensource
• samantha-wiki 8mo ago
  I agree strongly with this. I would ditch my iPhone in a heartbeat for an open source alternative.
  • yiiii 8mo ago
    GrapheneOS is already existing and pretty usable!
  • burner420042 8mo ago
    I'm sure the enthusiasm is appreciated but Graphene is very different even from stock Android. It's not simple enough for mainstream, and UI is odd. I'm typing this on an iPhone and my pixel 10 graphene is just to my left. It's my favorite Android distro but I wouldn't daily it. I love how boring and quiet the OS is though. It doesn't try for engagement. Battery life remains very good. The distro is close to being what the Microsoft phone wanted to be.
    • palata 8mo ago
      > It's not simple enough for mainstream, and UI is odd. It's exactly the same UI as Stock Android on a Google Pixel. If you find GrapheneOS' UI odd, then Android is just not for you, I guess?
      • burner420042 8mo ago
        This response lacks thought and is argumentative. The UI is not the same nor are the app defaults. Combined they create a different UX from stock Android. The default graphene App Store, and expected apps found there are different than Google Play or what you'd find on Google Play. The default permissions of each app are restrictive, most notable when you start mixing App Stores. F-Droid culture, and the app options, are their own thing. Vanadium, the graphene messaging app, the lack of forced updates and nag buttons. Exploit protection compat mode for banking apps. Motorola isn't selling to you or the other person that responded. For that market graphene will have an unexpected learning curve.