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Google workers seek 'red lines' on military A.I., echoing Anthropic
https://notdivided.org/ https://notdivided.org/
- beanjuiceII 7mo ago100 google employees wow
- verdverm 7mo agoevery change starts with a few people, and then it grows
- bigyabai 7mo agoGoogle is grandfathered into a few preexisting defense contracts. Any red lines you draw may have already been crossed.
- pempem 7mo agoLiterally yesterday google changed how secrets work. Its very possible to introduce change.
- busko 7mo agoDo you have any references for this? I'd like to know more.
- verdverm 7mo agoContracts expire and can be renegotiated, or even reneged on if you are willing to accept the consequences (which you may see as preferable to enabling wanton murder)
- cheonn638 7mo ago> every change starts with a few people, and then it grows your opinion is defense contracts are bad my opinion is defense contracts are good who is correct? probably me since 99.9% of Googlers won’t leave over this
- piloto_ciego 7mo ago[flagged]
- klhutchins 7mo agoThere's lots of money for everyone on the way down
- piloto_ciego 7mo agoI wish people would seriously start looking past this... "enough" should be the goal? But maybe I'm crazy
- omoikane 7mo ago> if all your friends were jumping off of a bridge would you do it too? Probably. https://xkcd.com/1170/ https://xkcd.com/1170/ Although in the context of the parent comment, majority of Googlers probably aren't working on things directly related to controversial topics, instead they are probably working on mundane and non-external facing projects like "how do I migrate my libraries from this deprecated dependency to this other shiny new thing".
- dotancohen 7mo agoWhy is there any controversy about defending one's nation being "good" or "bad"? I can not believe what I am reading here, and how the single comment supporting defending one's country is so heavily downvoted. Qatar has poisoned Western online communities such that all defence of the United States is considered taboo? I don't even live in the US and I am frightened by what I see here.
- 7mo ago
- dietr1ch 7mo agoAnd they'll be terminated by Jan 2027. Anything too scandalous will be done in secrecy thanks to code&project silos.
- hyfgfh 7mo agoNext victims of "AI productivity gains"
- raldi 7mo ago200
- zenon_paradox 7mo ago[flagged]
- ChrisArchitect 7mo agoThe letter: https://notdivided.org/ https://notdivided.org/ (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47174964 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47174964)
- rvz 7mo agoWe already forgotten about this already? [0] Where was the open letter then? Both companies (Google, OpenAI [0]) have defense contracts. At this point, the best course of action is to leave Google and OpenAI if you disagree with that (they won't). [0] https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/jun/17/openai-military-contract-warfighting https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/jun/17/openai-mi...
- jimmydoe 7mo agoI say stay, and do a subtlety bad job there.
- dotancohen 7mo agoSabotage? You are openly advocating the internal sabotage of US defense capability?
- busko 7mo agoPiggybacking on deeply integrated information and connectivity within society that was marketed and adopted under the guise of trust and an ethos of not being evil is pathetic. Build, train, develop and maintain an AI for military if needed. When a government is scared of individuals they've clearly lost their edge.
- wqaatwt 7mo agoIf the US government is treating its constitution hardly any better than toilet paper (and it clearly is) that is not an unreasonable thing to do. If the current trajectory continues those “defensive” capabilities will obviously be used against the citizens paying for them..
- g947o 7mo agoYour manager and colleagues are not idiots.
- sudonem 7mo agoAs much as I applaud the intention, the genie has been out of the bottle on this one for many years already.
- markus_zhang 7mo agoArguably it has always been there, considering the US military sponsored so many computing projects.
- taurath 7mo agoThere's always this comment, saying that its useless to possibly govern or resist advancement or development or use of weapons capable of indiscriminate killing. If the world actually worked like they believe it does, if restraint were just not possible, the world would have been destroyed at least 3 documented times over. Don't listen to them.
- sincerely 7mo agoI think theyre referencing the previous Google employee protests of the company working with the Us Military
- jLaForest 7mo agoI think theyre referencing the Google AI already being used to make killing people more efficient
- b65e8bee43c2ed0 7mo agoUnited States 1945 Soviet Union 1949 United Kingdom 1952 France 1960 China 1964 Israel 1966 India 1974 South Africa 1979 Pakistan 1998 North Korea 2006 also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_latency https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_latency also, see what Ukraine and Iran got for their "restraint".
- ksynwa 7mo agoWhat are you trying to say exactly?
- sidibe 7mo agoI remember they successfully got Google out of a military contract in the first admin (and briefly vilified by the right for that). that's not going to work now. Workers have a lot less power and the CEO is buddies with Trump
- SpicyLemonZest 7mo agoAs the article says, the workers didn't petition the CEO, they petitioned the head of Google AI who's already expressed solidarity with Anthropic. If they can convince Jeff Dean, I don't think Sundar necessarily gets a say; it's a lot easier to stick your head in the sand and ignore things than to fire one of your most widely respected engineers because he won't help the Pentagon build Terminator robots.
- SecretDreams 7mo agoMy one concern in this whole thing is that if these slightly less benevolent, but still have some morality, companies don't engage, we'll be left with companies like OAI and xAI engaging and you just know that's not going to make things better for anyone.
- SpicyLemonZest 7mo agoIt’s not a great situation, no doubt, but after Kristi Noel’s luxury jet I’m willing to hope that their capacity for grift outweighs their competence.
- raw_anon_1111 7mo agoWhich companies are these? Google and Facebook already bribed Trump under the cover of “settling” a frivolous case he personally brought forward. Tim Cook personally donated to his inauguration fund and gave him an expensive trinket. The Netflix CEO is now kissing up to him trying to get the WB acquisition approved. Even companies that are hurt by the tariffs won’t say anything bad about him. The only CEO that has spoken out against any of his policies is Chase’s CEO.
- 7mo ago
- moogly 7mo agoIf we're going to have to rely on self-regulation for this, we're already doomed.
- Analemma_ 7mo agoSure, but we’re currently so fucked that even self-regulation is clearly superior to kneeling to the Mad King and his drunkard Secretary of War.
- mikestorrent 7mo agoThere is only self regulation, ultimately, at the top. I think it's still progress to see these groups specifically call out their moral hesitations, even if it doesn't go anywhere - it gives people ground to realize that others share their concerns. All movements, all progress starts from people putting their stance out there and getting a conversation going around the topic; that builds mindshare and eventually a demand for change.
- deleted 7mo ago[deleted]
- dbcooper 7mo agohttps://www.nytimes.com/2025/12/31/magazine/ukraine-ai-drones-war-russia.html https://www.nytimes.com/2025/12/31/magazine/ukraine-ai-drone...
- miohtama 7mo ago"Don't do evil" Oh, wait...
- dotancohen 7mo agoDefending one's own country is not evil, no matter how much money Qatar pours into Western social media influencers.
- tehjoker 7mo agoIt is when "defense" means invasion and subjugation of other countries. All countries pose their military operations as "defense." Inquiring minds should ask if a country surrounded on sides by two oceans with two pacified neighbors has any real threats or merely opportunities for cheap labor, market access, and mineral rights abroad. This has been going on for a very long time (read what Smedley Butler said in "War is a Racket"), but after the Iraq War, the credibility of the US should be somewhere in hell.
- stevenpetryk 7mo agoIt's not black and white. There is an entire spectrum of completely justifiable and extremely questionable uses of military power by the US.
- wqaatwt 7mo agoUS did rename the Department of Defense to Department of War so not sure how much posing is left..
- Yasuraka 7mo agoI can't remember the US ever being in a position of defense, no matter how much AIPAC handlers blackmail Western politicians with Epsteins.
- wqaatwt 7mo ago> Defending one's own country is not evil What if the your country’s government is the biggest threat to it, though?
- xxxx_xxxx 7mo ago[dead]
- raw_anon_1111 7mo agoGoogle employees must think this is pre 2024. The employer has the power and doesn’t mind laying off people who don’t tow the company line and all of the CEOs bend over and bribe the President - ie “settling” frivolous lawsuits brought by Trump himself over “censorship” when he was out of office
- SpicyLemonZest 7mo agoI think a lot of software companies are going to learn just how much employee power remains tomorrow, in the very likely event that the Pentagon issues an order purporting to ban all defense contractors from using Claude.
- raw_anon_1111 7mo agoThe kind of government contracts that Claude might lose pale in comparison with contracts that Google/GCP go after
- archagon 7mo agoTime to unionize.
- raw_anon_1111 7mo agoYes because the poor Google employees are so underpaid and mistreated… Good luck trying to get Google to agree to those demands and not just tell them to kick rocks. There are plenty of people in Google offices all over the world that will gladly take their place
- Xeronate 7mo agoI understand the vision, but how does this work on a global scale. e.g. American employees refuse to build this, but China's don't. Edit: I originally ended with "What would have happened if Germany had a nuclear bomb and America didn't?", but I think it distracted from the point I was trying to make so moving this to an edit. I'm not trying to ask "is the US the bad guy". I'm trying to ask how to balance personal anti war sentiments with the realities of the world (specifically in this case keeping up in an arms race).
- CasualSuperman 7mo agoWith current leadership, I think we're closer to Germany in this analogy.
- ihsw 7mo agoThis kind of inflammatory nonsense serves no purpose other than to be insulting and provocative.
- wewtyflakes 7mo agoI think it signals to other people that they should not feel alone in that "this is all **ed up". To that, I appreciated the comment.
- j16sdiz 7mo agoThis is not answering the question.. and HN ain't US only. You can say the same for any other country... What if Japan employee refuse, but American want that anyway? What if China employee refuse, but Russia employee want that anyway? The implication are still the same -- social, culture, jurisdiction, national interest, company interest don't share the same boundary and don't align on their priorities.
- tokioyoyo 7mo agoI don’t think they’re refusing all military involvement. Autonomous-decision making is the problematic part.
- tehjoker 7mo ago[flagged]
- ecshafer 7mo agoThis gets a giant eye roll from me. Are you really so naive that you thought working on AI for a giant tech company, creating software that is capable of finding deep patterns in massive amounts of data... and it wasn't going to used by the Defense / Intelligence industry? If you are so against the US government, and you are working for ANY big tech company you are aiding the Intelligence and Defense industry. Government uses AWS and Azure. Intelligence agencies use the data and tools of Meta / Google / Apple / etc.
- Schmerika 7mo agoYou're not entirely wrong, but maybe you could consider supporting people who move in the right direction rather than rolling your eyes at them.
- ihsw 7mo ago[dead]
- blobbers 7mo agoAm I the only one who remembers the prime directive of google, much easier to understand than 'organizing the worlds information' etc. etc. It was simpler. Don't be evil.
- OrvalWintermute 7mo agoGoogle has been evil for at least a decade, if not longer than that. This is just pigslop masquerading as a moral stand. What happened to the OG Google that cared about users, prioritized honest search, fast performance, and didn't murder pages with ads?
- mighmi 7mo ago> evil They never removed "don't be evil", they just changed where it is in the document.
- browningstreet 7mo agoGiven Jeff Dean’s political activity on X, I’m guessing he’s aligned to the resistance too. Not sure the rest of management is interested in caving.
- junofan 7mo agoThe resistance goes out the window the first time an American is gunned down by an autonomous system. They should do whatever possible to prevent that outcome.
- protocolture 7mo agoThe line should be "no" not "limited domestic use".
- SilverElfin 7mo agoThey need to unionize quickly to protect their employment and include this as part of their bargaining
- tokyobreakfast 7mo ago"Google employees make demands of US Military from nap pods, ball pit." I assume by red lines they are referring to a life-sized tic-tac-toe game board painted in a hallway.
- dyauspitr 7mo agoHonestly I want tech companies is to make our military strong, just not under this guy. He’s going to turn around and use it directly on Americans.
- Havoc 7mo agoVery much doubt Google will take principled stance
- nojvek 7mo agoUS leaders have realized how much power China CCP has over its citizens. They want to do that. Same with EU. What makes US US are their transparent integral markets and ability for information , people and goods to move freely. By using AI for mass surveillance, information can’t move that freely. Free speech gets suppressed. Can’t call the emperor naked. The Emporer is naked with a poopy diaper. But we can’t say that aloud.
- RickJWagner 7mo agoThat seems counter intuitive to me. Surveillance is information gathering, and synthesizing insights that were previously undiscovered. It makes more information, albeit not shared information. I suppose it decreases the percentage of information that’s free. But it increases the amount of total information. About free speech suppression, I don’t see any of that happening. If anything, there is too much being said from across the political spectrum. I’d be happy if people would say less, especially in hyperbole. I can’t see where free speech has been impinged at all.
- deleted 7mo ago[deleted]
- DanielHall 7mo agoAnother rather peculiar point: why did the Department of War reject Anthropic and label it a supply chain risk entity, despite its "prohibited content" policy being almost identical to OpenAI's stated policy in its announcement, yet award the contract to OpenAI?