6 ms·

This isn't a one-election thing. It's going to be a generational effort to fix what these people are breaking more of every day. I hope I live to see it come to

• inigyou 8mo ago
  Some people are calling it the "American century of humiliation" No other country that went through a phase like this has ever recovered. Not even in a century.
  • davidw 8mo ago
    I won't give in to doomerism. Germany, Italy and Japan are all wealthy, stable democracies right now. Not without their problems and baggage, but pleasant places in a lot of ways.
    • inigyou 8mo ago
      [flagged]
      • lovich 8mo ago
        > Germany is still extremely weird about anything to do with Jews > I've never been to Italy but they don't seem very productive either. Ok green poster. You need to look up more about world economies if you are going to confidently say things like Italy isn’t that productive. Combined with your comment on Jews in Germany I just assume you’re here to push propaganda, but if not please read up more on Italian economic output compared to, I don’t know, maybe the G7 countries?
      • popalchemist 8mo ago
        Japan's economics are mostly rooted in population issues. Have you ever been? Even though wages are stagnant, the people are among the healthiest in the world and they're known for the way their society's public services ACTUALLY work. Not sure about Italy, but Germany, while not without its problems, is a beacon of democracy, progressivism, and self-correction.
    • micromacrofoot 8mo ago
      They got bombed to shit first
      • davidw 8mo ago
        It'd be nice to avoid that part.
        • Fischgericht 8mo ago
          Then it won't work. The current iteration of Germany is fully based on having been bombed to get a fresh start. If you already have something, you won't change it. If you have to re-build, you will implement improvements. No bombs, no reset, no joy.
          • davidw 8mo ago
            I am less confident about my predictions for an uncertain future. There's all kinds of ways different things could go. I didn't say we needed to follow their example to the letter; it was just one counterexample to the "woe and ruin for 100 years" comment.
            • Fischgericht 8mo ago
              Yes, but it is actually scientifically correct and proven on all sorts of layers. Biology, Maths, whatever. Not doomsdaying, just data analytics. Societies are not operating like a sinus curve like say summer/winter cycles. They are upside-down "U"s. After the peak comes decline, but after the decline there is NOT recovery/growth again before you have a reset. Germany was the huge winner of WW2 in the sense that after having had a high society they directly were allowed to get another such run. But as nobody wants to bomb us ) anymore, Germany is also in decline now waiting for a reset to come one day... Sadly the USA will also need a reset before things can begin getting better again. ) I was born in Germany and lived there for 40 years.
              • RGamma 8mo ago
    • mobilefriendly 8mo ago
      All three have active US military bases on their soil and enjoy the economic surplus of living under the US defense umbrella.
      • davidw 8mo ago
        The post WWII system was imperfect in many ways, but it was also mutually beneficial and worked out pretty well despite the problems. And we're throwing that all out the window. US military bases aren't what made those countries modern, prosperous, democratic places. It took the will of the people to rebuild something better after the war.
      • bonsai_spool 8mo ago
        Britain essentially ceded its bases to the US at the end of WWII - these things aren’t as durable as they may seem.
        • Quarrelsome 8mo ago
          that's cos WW1 financially broke Britain, then WW2 happened.
      • 4gotunameagain 8mo ago
        All that economic surplus - and much more - flows back to the US. How do you think the US can sustain that amount of USD printing without inflation ? The rest of the world is buying those dollars.
      • matwood 8mo ago
        You seem to imply the US reaps no benefit from providing security?
      • Quarrelsome 8mo ago
        don't make it out like its a favour. The US have done very well out of their defense umbrella ensuring its global dominance for most of last century. Most powers have to pay in blood to do what they want geo politically without question. The US inherited a global state where many potential rivals were weak and helped keep them weak. It was a cost worth paying and its a shame that current US leaders are so cheap and foolhardy to not see what they're throwing away.
    • remarkEon 8mo ago
      Germany: functionally paralyzed government that has the far right knocking at the door because the fractured coalition of left-centerleft-centerright continues to refuse to do what voters ask for. Italy: Nominally center-right government, similar problems as Germany, less the energy issues Japan: just elected a landslide right wing government that is going to change the constitution so they can build an offensive military again Curious.
      • poly2it 8mo ago
        I don't perceive those problems to be inherent to the territories or peoples of the countries. All have had potential to change and have done so extensively since the Second World War. There isn't a universal explanation or root behind the issues these countries are facing today, unless you are willing to abstract it to just "economics".
  • Dumblydorr 8mo ago
    That’s just historically inaccurate. You had massive upheavals across numerous countries throughout time, this is small in comparison to the civil war’s impact on the USA for instance. You think this is worse than half the government rebelling and revolting and killing an amount of young men that today would be equivalent to 6 million deaths? It’s bad now but your comment lacks historical evidence.
    • deleted 8mo ago
      [deleted]
  • jonplackett 8mo ago
    China seems to have recovered pretty well.
    • AuthAuth 8mo ago
      Not really. China only seems good because there is a war in Europe and the US is shooting themself in the foot. They're polluting and strip mining their country, suppressing wages and funneling the profit into companies all while increasing surveillance and decreasing freedom of opinion. Oh but they put down a few solar panels and then paid for people to write articles about it.
      • davidw 8mo ago
        Their economy lifted a bunch of people out of poverty. That's positive. However, in terms of 'democracy' they're still way worse off than the US right now, even if the US is headed in a bad direction.
        • wraptile 8mo ago
          > Their economy lifted a bunch of people out of poverty This is fallacious as every economy that started at extreme poverty lifted a bunch of people out of poverty. Unless we invent a time machine and do an A|B test we can't really attribute the success to policy when _any_ policy would have clearly lifted out a bunch of people out of poverty (basically almost impossible to not go up from extreme deficit). The closest we can do is look at similar scenarios like Taiwan which also lifted a bunch of people from poverty while retaining more human rights.
          • davidw 8mo ago
            Plenty of places have managed to "keep on keepin' on" with their poverty levels. I'm not saying what they've done was the best way, only way or anything of that sort: only that it happened.
      • idiotsecant 8mo ago
  • gbnwl 8mo ago
    Is this a joke that’s going over my head? The country we all know the term “century of humiliation” from has recovered and is literally a superpower right now?
  • tsunamifury 8mo ago
    Rome was 'in decline' for 1000 years... these things are mostly feel good blather and not realistic statements on the position of nations
  • IAmGraydon 8mo ago
    This is a laughably ridiculous assertion.
  • Pxtl 8mo ago
    The Unenlightenment. Dereconstruction. > No other country that went through a phase like this has ever recovered. Not even in a century. Oh I can think of a couple in the '40s that bounced back after a while.
  • giwook 8mo ago
    I’d be interested to see some specific examples cited as it’s hard to take this comment at face value.
  • nostrademons 8mo ago
    U.S. Civil War? Roman Crisis of the 3rd Century? Russian Revolution? England's War of the Roses? China's periodic dynastic changes? They usually don't come back with the same political organization - that's sorta the point. But plenty of civilizations come back in a form that is culturally recognizable and even dominate afterwards.
  • testfrequency 8mo ago
    On eastern social media a big discussion going around right now is referring to America as being on the “kill line”. The world knows the US is close to folding in on itself.
  • Mr_Minderbinder 8mo ago
    > Some people are calling it the "American century of humiliation" They should wait until some or all of the following things have happened: 1. Camp David is sacked, looted and burned to the ground by foreign troops. [1] 2. Foreign naval vessels patrol American rivers to protect foreign corporate interests in America. [2] 3. Foreign nations have unrestricted access to American ports and trade. [3] 4. America pays a large indemnity for attempting to resist. [4] 5. Foreign nationals become immune to US law. [5] 6. Multiple military defeats and territorial losses. [6] 7. This goes on unfettered for 100 years. All in all perhaps it is a bit early to call it that. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Summer_Palace#Destruction https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Summer_Palace#Destruction [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yangtze_Patrol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yangtze_Patrol [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unequal_Treaties https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unequal_Treaties [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxer_Indemnity#The_clauses https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxer_Indemnity#The_clauses [5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraterritoriality#China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraterritoriality#China [6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Century_of_humiliation#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Century_of_humiliation#History
• mschuster91 8mo ago
  > It's going to be a generational effort to fix what these people are breaking more of every day. That assumes you have people wanting to fix what is broken - and I have a hard time believing even now that they are in the majority. MAGA and their supporters? They want to see the world burn, if only for different motives: the "left behind" people in flyover states just want revenge, the Evangelicals literally believe they can cause the Second Coming of Christ by it [1], the Russia fangroup wants to see Ukraine burn to the ground and the ultra-libertarians/dont tread on me folks want all government but maybe a bit of military to go away. That is what unifies so many people behind the Trump banner. The problem is, on the left side you got a bunch of people completely fed up as well. Anarchists of course, then you got the "left behind" people who still want revenge on the system but aren't willing to enlist the help of the far-right for that goal, you got revolutionaries of all kind... and you got those who believe that the rot runs too deep to fix by now. And let's face the uncomfortable truth: every one of them, bar the Evangelicals and the Russia apologists, actually has a decent point in wanting to see the world burn. Post-Thatcher capitalism has wrecked too many lives, the US Constitution hasn't seen a meaningful update in decades and no overhaul in centuries, the "checks and balances" that were supposed to prevent a Trump from reaching office or rising to the position of effective dictator have been all but destroyed, the "American Dream" has been vaporware ever since 2007... [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c20g1zvgj4do https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c20g1zvgj4do
  • plaidfuji 8mo ago
    Yeah… turns out you have to keep a certain balance of domestic industries to keep 350 million people employed in a capacity where they don’t want to burn down the whole system. But that would be socialism. Now you’ve got the people whose jobs suck and want their old jobs to come back vs the people whose jobs suck and just want to dispense with the illusion that everyone needs to be employed. Either way, the money-generating corporate automaton needs to cough up some of its profits to fund people’s existence. If everyone could just agree on how, maybe they’d get somewhere. Meanwhile, I will continue to cling to my slice of the corporate automoton pie.
• eunos 8mo ago
  > generational effort to fix You imply that there are folks that willing to fix or even recognize that things are broken in the first place