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Cardiorespiratory fitness is associated with lower anger and anxiety
- toomuchtodo 9mo agoRelated: Exercise may relieve depression as effectively as antidepressants - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46541672 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46541672 - January 2026 Exercise twice as effective as anti-depressants - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39396047 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39396047 - February 2024 Running from the Pain (2018) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27306725 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27306725 - May 2021 Running from the Pain - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16573009 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16573009 - March 2018
- arctic-true 9mo agoI am pretty confident from my own experience that the study’s conclusion is broadly true. But the study leaves open one obvious alternative explanation: people who have enough free time to exercise regularly (and exercise was used as a stand-in for fitness level, it doesn’t look like they actually measured anything else) could have less stressful and anger-inducing lives overall.
- deleted 9mo ago[deleted]
- PeterStuer 9mo agoAlternatively: People who spent their time regularly exercising instead of arguing on Facebook or X, have lower anger and anxiety.
- PaulHoule 9mo agoWhich introduces variables such as: "believes in righteous anger"
- rustyhancock 9mo agoAnd alternatively again, you need to have lower anger and anxiety to engage in excercise! I'm sure all of this is an inseparable mess. But it doesn't affect the recommendation does it? Everyone should aim to be physically fit and that involves engaging in cardiorespiratory exercise.
- usefulcat 9mo agoI thought of “people who have enough time to exercise because they don’t have to work multiple jobs in an attempt to scrape together enough to make ends meet”.
- oncallthrow 9mo agoUnder 10 million people in the US (less than 6% of workforce) work multiple jobs.
- torben-friis 9mo agoPretty much everything related to exercise is a direct or indirect positive effect for health. Stress relief, tiredness leading to better sleep, physiological effects of muscle gain, physiological effects of weight loss, social interaction in shared spaces, exposure to sunlight, push to improve diet in pursuit of fitness goals, better self image, social effects of becoming more physically attractive…
- marginalia_nu 9mo agoAnecdotally, I started lifting again a few weeks ago. Took a few years off due to Covid complications, but was previously exercising regularly. Walked up to the bar stressed about all sorts of things, everything is expensive, car is making weird chafing noises when I make sharp turns, politics, this and that. Did 3 sets of 5 deadlifts with a 60kg bar. Barely any weight on the bar since I didn't want to annihilate my joints. Regardless, as I finished the sets, all that stress was just gone, and it stayed away for days. I was calmer, clearer, more present. I don't think I have fewer reasons to be stressed since getting the gym membership, but I sure am less stressed. Deadlifts in particular, but really any full body lifts have always been a mental state degauss button for me. Doesn't matter how many problems you have before you walk up to that bar, you'll barely remember them when you're done.
- eudamoniac 9mo agoNote: deadlifts do not "annihilate" joints. Resistance training strengthens and improves joints. Repetitive impact behavior like running on concrete does annihilate joints though.
- marginalia_nu 9mo agoThis is from a context of "4 plates used to be pretty easy, then I took several years off lifting". I know no faster way to get injured in the gym than to try to grind a new 1RM after a lengthy break.
- eudamoniac 9mo agoOkay great, but that has nothing to do with your joints, unless you meant vertebral joints, but that is not the common parlance. You might injure a muscle belly.
- reducesuffering 9mo agoNote: running on concrete does not "annihilate" joints either. https://www.uhhospitals.org/blog/articles/2023/08/running-doesnt-harm-joints https://www.uhhospitals.org/blog/articles/2023/08/running-do... https://www.health.harvard.edu/healthbeat/will-continuing-to-run-make-my-knees-wear-out-faster https://www.health.harvard.edu/healthbeat/will-continuing-to...
- cryzinger 9mo agoNot saying "cardiorespiratory fitness" and "heart rate" are 1:1, because they're certainly not, but beta blockers are a known treatment for certain kinds of anxiety. I can attest that taking low-dose propranolol twice a day (without pulling any other levers related to lifestyle, stress, etc.) has helped me mellow the fuck out, which I sorely needed lol. So I would wager that cardio fitness is itself correlated with anxiety and anger, although in practice it's tangled up with many other factors. In addition to baseline heart rate, there's also some interesting stuff related to anxiety and heart rate variability. My understanding is that certain types of breathing exercises improve HRV in the short term, which is good for calming down if you're riled up, but people with good cardio health have a better baseline HRV in the first place. (Also, this has always been unintuitive to me, but higher variability is better for anxiety, not lower variability.)
- PaulHoule 9mo agoI've been doing my own personal research on HRV and getting to the bottom of it. The literature is bewildering because of course there are many ways to measure it. If you measure it over the course of the day it is influenced by things like the activities you do. Of course your HRV is going to be higher if you alternate intense activity that raises your heart rate with rest and since activity is so important in it I don't think it is fair to look at a whole day trace. I think the most important phenomenon is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayer_waves https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mayer_waves which are associated with the metric RMSSD as described here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart_rate_variability https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart_rate_variability This is called "SD1" in my app https://gen5.info/demo/biofeedback/ https://gen5.info/demo/biofeedback/ You can use that app to increase the amplitude of your Mayer wave, what you do is breathe in when you see the wave going down and breathe in when you see the wave going up. It is a little tricky if your Mayer waves are initially weak and you might feel light-headed and think "I can't breathe" but once it settles in it is a very strong effect. I have read a number of patents for HRV biofeedback and they all involve much more complex things that you might think would work if you hadn't tried it but that I don't believe would work having tried it. Funny I have been taking Nebivolol, another beta blocker, and found that it drastically lowers HRV-inferred stress as measured by my Garmin watch -- I can't really say how it affects my app because I wrote it after I started on the drug.
- thefz 9mo agoSample size of 1 but after a stressful day it's very hard to come back with the same mindset once you have left for even a quick run.
- engineer_22 9mo agoMy final year of college I lived 2 miles off campus and would daily bicycle to school. In previous years I would commute via car as I lived too far to make the trip conveniently. I perceived greater emotional well-being during the 1 year period of moderate daily exercise. My grades also improved dramatically and I was more resilient during periods of sleep deprivation or intense study. As an adult with a family it has been more difficult to establish a pattern of daily physical activity. Going to the gym is very boring for me.
- mertd 9mo ago> Going to the gym is very boring for me. Try group exercise studios, if you have one available. The classes are usually one hour. It makes planning very easy. Same time, every week. All you need to do is to show up.
- engineer_22 9mo agoThank you for the suggestion
- tylerflick 9mo agoYou could try signing up for a race. 5k’s are a good intro if you’re new to running. Plus it’s a nearly free hobby.
- engineer_22 9mo agoThank you for the suggestion
- Havoc 9mo agoFitness or the exercise to get there?
- SJMG 9mo agoYou get the fitness from the exercise. They didn't subject people to exercise, they surveyed them on what they already do and found a correlation between exercise and emotional resilience.
- small_model 9mo agoWould a stressed out Amazon/Uber eats delivery person who is very fit from working 10 hours a day, but with barely enough money to feed their family going to be less angry/anxious than a rich person lounging at his villa with zero worries? This is looking at one variable which isn't very useful.
- 0_____0 9mo agoworking != working out if you don't believe me, take one look at a construction site and the workers on it.
- small_model 9mo agoBut the article mentions cardiorespiratory fitness, not working out vs working.
- 0_____0 9mo agoMy point is that physical labor won't grant you cardio fitness.
- seizethecheese 9mo agoDiet is the main driver of obesity, not exercise. These folks are often in great shape under a layer of fat. More apropos, have you ever met an anxious construction worker? I haven’t.
- 0_____0 9mo agoI renovated my house over the course of two years, so I've had a lot of close contact with tradespeople. Carpenters, demo, electricians, hvac, plasterers... the young guys are ok and buckstrong. By the time they're in their 40s, you can tell the work is rough on them. Having muscle is only one dimension of fitness. You're entirely neglecting cardiovascular health, which is a better predictor of longevity.
- Angostura 9mo ago
- sp1nningaway 9mo agoI am 100% certain my resilience to stress and anxiety is directly tied to my cardiovascular health. I'm prone to a heart-racing, hot-eared flywheel of anxiety. When I've been running a lot I can FEEL the vagal tone/HRV fitness that gives me an physical off ramp for the mental space to take a fucking chill pill.
- jerlam 9mo agoCardio is unpleasant and stressful, which is why most people don't do it. Someone willing to do something that is not fun, on a regular basis, is going to have stronger mental status that someone who doesn't try at all. As Calvin's dad says, misery builds character.
- AstroBen 9mo agoIt's only unpleasant and stressful when you're unfit. I cycle 4-6 hours a week and it's wayyy more pleasant than sitting around at home
- reducesuffering 9mo agoAgreed, cardio is actually generally enjoyable, hence the massive popularity of run clubs and marathons. It is unpleasant for the first couple months of someone 20 years sedentary and overweight going into 9/10 effort runs though (when they should jog)
- tredre3 9mo ago> the massive popularity of run clubs and marathons A few hundreds/thousands members in cities of millions doesn't equate massive popularity. Doing cardio is unpleasant to most people, I don't understand why it's so important to cardio enthusiasts to frame them as being liars or unaware? That's not convincing anyone and your energy would be better spent trying to find other ways to entice people.
- reducesuffering 9mo agoHow many yearly events are drawing tens of thousands in cities? About 15% of the US runs regularly per stats, cardio is even more because cycling is also huge. Of course cardio is unpleasant to most people, 73% of the US is overweight or obese. I'm saying for healthy individuals with a small modicum of fitness (like their bodies were evolutionarily designed to do, we are the animal kingdom's top long distance runner after all), cardio is generally enjoyable.
- Herring 9mo agoExercise is good, everyone knows. The problem is advising people to exercise doesn't work and doesn't scale. Gyms are for people who have plenty of intrinsic motivation and money and time. To improve physical activity at the population scale and over a lifetime, it literally has to be built into the design of the cities, so people get enough exercise while walking to work or grabbing groceries. https://cs.stanford.edu/people/jure/pubs/activity-inequality-nature17.pdf https://cs.stanford.edu/people/jure/pubs/activity-inequality... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPUlgSRn6e0&ab_channel=NotJustBikes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPUlgSRn6e0&ab_channel=NotJu...
- gedy 9mo agoI think it would also help to not have everyone working so damn much.
- amelius 9mo agoOr maybe work harder in the physical sense. AI will help by doing all the intellectual work.
- devmor 9mo agoRTO is also a factor for some... when I was working full remote I had the time and energy to attend an HIIT class 4 days a week. I was in the best shape of my life. Since starting a position that requires me in the office for 3 or more days a week, I no longer have the energy (or schedule) to attend since I spend ~120-160m in traffic. Between that and the lack of proximity to my own kitchen affecting my dietary choices, I've gained almost 40lbs in 2 years. All of this is of course avoidable with self-discipline, but self-discipline wanes as you get more exhausted from your day.
- mattlondon 9mo agoI wonder if there is some underlying lizard-brain thing going on here. If you "know" you are physically unfit you are quick to anger and aggression because you potentially need to act like that to not need to rely on physical fitness if it came to needing it? I.e. you need to deter others through your aggression rather than relying on fitness if it came to a fight? Or alternatively the other perspective if you "know" you are fit you can keep the stress hormones low safe in the knowledge that if it comes to it you've got the fitness to handle a fight? ...Or perhaps none of that! Interesting.
- csours 9mo agoOr even more lizard brain: if you have more cardio capacity/fitness, your body actually FEELS better, so you feel better emotionally and cognitively. If you have lower capacity, your body feels bad and this is reflected in your emotional and cognitive state.
- vjk800 9mo agoI've had the same idea. Especially regarding anxiety. You start getting anxious and scared of everything, because your brain knows that your body is out of shape and incapable of dealing with stuff if anything happens. If you can't deal with any problems, then you must constantly be on lookout for them so that you can avoid them.
- jihadjihad 9mo ago"Exercise gives you endorphins. Endorphins make you happy. Happy people just don't shoot their husbands. They just don't."
- agjmills 9mo agoLinguistics question: the title says “[…] is associated with lower anger and anxiety” I read it as _people who have lower anger, and people who have anxiety_ Am I broken? (I am a native English speaker but that doesn’t mean that I speak English correctly)
- devmor 9mo agoThe title is grammatically standard to the title of other scientific studies of this nature and communicates the intent succinctly to those who know they are looking at a psychology study. A descriptive rewording for general understanding could be something like "We measured an association with lower anger and anxiety and higher emotional resilience in individuals with higher cardiorespiratory fitness rates."
- seydor 9mo agosample size and methods do not inspire confidence about such broad generalizations
- disgruntledphd2 9mo agoThis study seems both wildly underpowered, chooses relatively bad methods for analysis (splitting between below average and above average, really?) and has far too many comparisions (they claim to have used bonferroni corrections where necessary, and then don't mention it again). All in all, it's a pretty good example of modern psychological research. Bad statistics, hyped up findings and (probably) wild over-generalisation about what this tiny study means for society/the world/my research funding. I think the biggest flaw here is around the measurement of VO2 max. So they first ask people how often they exercise (cos no-one ever lies) and then use a linear equation to map that to VO2 max. Granted, the equation has lines for age and sex, so it's not entirely useless, but if you're only going to sample 40 students then why not try to measure things a little better? The most unintentionally hilarious thing about their methods section is that age was not normally distributed (according to a shapiro test). They sampled students, so of course it's not going to be normally distributed. Students have a well-known bias in age. Ultimately, regardless of whether or not this finding turns out to be true (I like the idea of it, myself) this study provides absolutely no evidence for the effect. Note: I have a PhD in psychology, but left the field a decade plus ago. I'm both horrified by this study, and also having a lot of fun poking holes in it, maybe I should try to get back into reviewing? ;)
- deleted 9mo ago[deleted]
- m463 9mo agoread¹ the book "Spark" and a school instituted a daily exercise program. Kids were happier, fought less and got better grades. https://www.amazon.com/dp/0316113514 https://www.amazon.com/dp/0316113514 [1] well, listened to the audiobook while walking
- GeoAtreides 9mo agowell, now the obesity crisis explains the state of online discourse too
- dxuh 9mo agoI loved the gym and it did help my psyche. That is very clear to me. But now I don't go to the gym anymore, because I have a very stubborn radial tunnel syndrome in my right arm and my knee osteoarthritis is worse than ever. Of course both of those things make me angry and anxious. While I am absolutely positive that exercise helps your psyche, I would not be surprised if the majority of this correlation is actually from a common cause (it might also be stress in general - i.e. no time for exercise), lack of financial resources or just a bad place of living, etc.
- metalman 9mo agoI live ruraly, am reitivly poor, assets, but high outside bills,my work is laborious, and other aspects of k|ping a house going are also labour intensive.Never been in a jym.The harder I work, the stronger I get, and as my financial situation has gotten tighter and tighter, I am forced to act pragmaticly, which is to say a distilation of efficiency. The most intetesting thing is that people are responding to whatever newer matter of fact way I am comunicating and acting with there own version and seem to enjoy working with somone pushing there own personal edge, I know I do.