4 ms·

I thought the #1 use case for crypto was ransomware, followed by shitcoin rug-pulls, and the ability to commit theft without recourse. Sending money to Iran is

I thought the #1 use case for crypto was ransomware, followed by shitcoin rug-pulls, and the ability to commit theft without recourse. Sending money to Iran is just a minor edge case.

hilliardfarmer 8mo ago
What a deeply troubling and cynical comment. As far as I know, nowhere in the Bitcoin white paper or the original code base. Does it say anything about what you seem to think it's use cases are. Bitcoin has one main use, digital cash, that can be sent instantly and for free or a very low fee. Edit: I would agree though, that anything other than that is probably a scam.
- natpalmer1776 8mo ago
  Men of principles often mistake the experience and observations of others for cynicism when it does not align with said principles. This applies to a great deal, not just bitcoin.
  - toomuchtodo 8mo ago
    Relevant citations: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_purpose_of_a_system_is_what_it_does https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_purpose_of_a_system_is_wha... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_mind https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_mind https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bounded_rationality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bounded_rationality "We must take the world as it is and not as we would like it to be." - Maurice Allais
  - slopinthebag 8mo ago
    So the USD as well?
  - hilliardfarmer 8mo ago
    Thank you, had to ready this 3 times but wow, well said!!!
- lambda 8mo ago
  What? "Instantly and for a very low fee"? Fees have historically gone up above $100 per transaction. They've since added hacks on top of the original Bitcoin protocol to get the price back down again, but the original design was not good for low fees. And transactions can take 30 minutes or more to settle, that's hardly instant. If you accept a transaction instantly, it's relatively easy for someone to scam you by double spending. So, no, Bitcoin doesn't make a great digital cash. Maybe a better wire transfer. But the biggest benefit of it is to be unblockable and unrefundable, which makes it great for scames and illegal activity, plus the speculative nature of the pricing, which is great for gambling on.
  - SOLAR_FIELDS 8mo ago
    Pointing at the BTC transaction fee and saying it is super expensive is like pointing at a problematic car model and saying all cars are bad. There are any number of other popular coins out there that have the same or better liquidity as BTC that charge tiny fractions of the fees. And also settle in seconds. You're saying Bitcoin like BTC, but the parent commenter was probably referring to the giant ecosystem of coins, that happens to include BTC, but also many other much faster and cheaper options, that are used to globally remit payments every day. What it's replacing, by the way, Western Union, Wise and the like, is also pretty unblockable and unrefundable.
    - lambda 8mo ago
      What? I was replying to someone who explicitly referenced the Bitcoin whitepaper, they were clearly talking about BTC. And the protocol from the whitepaper was actually pretty bad, from a cost and transaction time point of view. It's gotten a bit better with some hacks layered on top of it. And yeah, the thing is, payment systems that work approximately as well as BTC exist without being cryptocurrency and using up so much electricity on mining. The main difference is that they don't operate in some areas where BTC still can (like evading sanctions, like this), and the speculative nature of BTC (which is actually a net negative on using it as a cash).
      - SOLAR_FIELDS 8mo ago
- wpietri 8mo ago
  It seems entirely accurate to me, at least in a POSIWID sense. The original theory of Bitcoin was, as described in the paper, decentralized digital cash. But in practice it was never optimized for what normal people use cash for. As system like that would be something like M-PESA. Even at the time, cash was declining in usage. In the 18 years since, it has declined a lot more. And for good reason, because what most people want for most things isn't digital cash, but digital money. E.g., debit cards and Venmo. So pretty naturally Bitcoin has value only for a few niche use cases that are not well served by more effective systems. Various sorts of crime, mostly. Digital cash, sure, but the kind that's transferred in unmarked envelopes slid quietly across the table. The kind that is delivered in a briefcase. As a side note, it also failed in its goal of being decentralized. The mining power is very concentrated. Much more so than the banking industry, for example. And most users keep their Bitcoin on deposit in centralized services. So it's again basically banking but worse.
  - carshodev 8mo ago
    Although it was originally intended to be cash it actually now is used as a "store of wealth" It allows people to build up wealth and be able to preserve it from government intervention and inflation. If you have stocks the ownerhsip and registration is controlled by a government and can be taken at any time from you. Look at china where if you have a large company and take a stand against the government all your equity will be wiped out and you will be either imprisoned or banished to another country. Cash in a government bank account is the same way, you can wake up one day and all your assets will be seized, your credit cards will stop working. Bitcoin works because you can technically have your wealth memorized. You can memorize a string of charcters that allow you to bring money with you no matter where you go. NO government or other human can steal it from you (except through torture) but you can also easily not memorize it and instead distribute the keys throughout the world in opposing countries meaning even if you are attacked by one country you still have some wealth kept in another. A store of wealth is what bitcion allows. True freedom from governments stealing your money because you have ideas which they do not agree with. This in my mind is the main usage of bitcoin. Other coins like stablecoins, or the btc lightning network have high value because they make transactions much cheaper as traditional banking systems are complex, error prone, and costly.
- datatrashfire 8mo ago
  the problem is as a means of cash it’s inferior to existing systems in pretty much every dimension. more expensive, slower, more risk, higher volatility. the cash story for crypto is not good.
  - carshodev 8mo ago
    This is incorrect, bitcoin is slower and more expensive, but bitcoin should not be used as cash, coins like stablecoins which direclty track US dollars or altcoins with lower fees should be used, the lightning network also is useful for transactions. Bitcoin CAN be used as a store of wealth and the slowness actually makes it better as the slowness is part of the same process that makes it safer, harder to hack/takeover, and gives it value. You should not look at all crypto as one thing.
    - idop 8mo ago
      [flagged]
      - smcin 8mo ago
        What's your specific criticism?
rwmj 8mo ago
That's a rather narrow view of crypto's uses. What about subverting democracy by bribing the President?
- whynotmaybe 8mo ago
  For me it was buying a computer from newegg but I confess I'm not playing in the same league.
  - quinnjh 8mo ago
    What was the benefit to you over using USD? (actually wondering)
    - whynotmaybe 8mo ago
      1. Get rid of the few mBTC I had left after I realized how bad I'm at crypto trading 2. Fully live the concept of buying something physical from a virtual money I got by mining some now defunct coins.
      - cheema33 8mo ago
        i.e. No real benefit. And maybe a small drawback of increased transaction fees.
- carshodev 8mo ago
  Has the lack of crypto ever stopped this from happening? Look up cases of gold bars being found in senators houses, those are actually MUCH less tracable. Shitcoins and Shitstocks(some SPACs) do allow of a legal way to "give" others money through the transfer of value in a way that is technically legal. This again is not crypto specific though.
  - greesil 8mo ago
    So the best part about being bribed with crypto is if one flees to another country to escape the law, one still has the aforementioned bribes. That plus some measure of anonymity.
numbers_guy 8mo ago
Back in 2011 I remember a lot of people talking about how the Chinese oligarchs were using it to evade currency controls and funnel their wealth out of China.
- carshodev 8mo ago
  Yes but we should be reminded that this also allows people to be protected from government overreach. If you say something the Chinese government does not agree with they can choose to take all your money and control of your company instantly. Not just oligarchs although those are the bigger targets due to the high value. Even a small business owner could THEORETICALLY have their assets and equity seized for saying something which goes against the current ruling party, and this is not specific to China it could happen in any modern country. Crypto allow someone to distribute their wealth in a way where they can be free to speak their mind and still protected even if the country which their business is based out of decides to take action against them.
  - PearlRiver 8mo ago
    I like to live in a world were companies have to follow the law and pay taxes though. Crypto is one step in the direction of Cyberpunk corporations.
  - bagacrap 8mo ago
    How is diversification unique to crypto? They could have bought us dollars or gold or a lot of other things even before Bitcoin. And the day that Trump decides to make Bitcoin illegal, its worldwide value still plummets. Besides which, crypto is not keeping anyone out of physical jail. China does not stop at seizing your bank accounts.
    - inigyou 8mo ago
      [dead]
  - throw0101a 8mo ago
    > Crypto allow someone to distribute their wealth in a way where they can be free to speak their mind and still protected even if the country which their business is based out of decides to take action against them. Transferring money between people internationally has been around for centuries: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawala https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawala You transfer X units of value from you to someone else in the network locally, and an equivalent amount is transferred to you in a remote location.
lazyasciiart 8mo ago
Isn't it just a subset of #3?
boplicity 8mo ago
Money laundering has always been a core feature of cryptocurrency, not an edge case.
joe_the_user 8mo ago
Not that snark isn't warranted in this situation but you have to consider that the ability to turn energy into globally accepted (but notably not-actually-untraceable) cash-equivalent is a key piece of the corrupt bitcoin puzzle. It offer opportunities to everyone from third world oligarchs and pariahs to those who happen to be able to tap an electrical grid. Technically, this is indeed "theft without recourse" but you're reply seems to imply this kind is marginal. Moreover, the chances are the reason Binance nixed the investigation of bitcoin going to Iran is because so much of the bitcoin economy is driven by entities like Iran (google AI say they have 4.5% of global mining plus random search link [1]). Edit: Iran also wants bitcoin sent to it because bitcoin isn't actually untraceable so getting clean money for dirty matters. [1] https://www.chainalysis.com/blog/iranian-crypto-activity-geopolitical-tensions-2026/ https://www.chainalysis.com/blog/iranian-crypto-activity-geo...
amelius 8mo ago
You forgot gambling on crypto exchanges.
giarc 8mo ago
When I think about it, I know people that have been involved in all of those areas (always on the wrong non-criminal end). However, I'm not sure I know a single person that has made a regular transaction in some cryptocoin.
- throwaway85825 8mo ago
  The currency part of cryptocurrency was always a lie.
- cguess 8mo ago
  I did once. Even after setting up a wallet and buying BTC (this was back in the mid-2010s), it still took 15 minutes to pay for two glasses of wine at a cafe. I could have just tossed down €5 and been done with it in 20 seconds.
- inigyou 8mo ago
  [dead]
overgard 8mo ago
Well, you could also use it to buy a pizza and find out it that your pizza cost a billion dollars a few years later.
- fragmede 8mo ago
  Sixteen years! If that pizza were still around, it would be dreaming of going to prom, maybe college, figuring out life.
- irjustin 8mo ago
  Literally - this is my friend =( For him, it was something like a ~$30m pizza at peak. We're asked not to bring it up.
  - IncreasePosts 8mo ago
    If he didn't buy a pizza with it and held the btc, he probably would have just sold it when he could make $1000, or $10000 with it.
    - irjustin 8mo ago
      While likely true, that's not how our brains work.
  - deleted 8mo ago
    [deleted]
- MrToadMan 8mo ago
  Conversely, buying pizza with MELANIA has left me with zero regrets.
hinkley 8mo ago
I like to amuse myself that if Robert Preston had lived another 20 years that Stephen Colbert or John Oliver would have paid him a heap of money to explain cryptocurrency to us all and it never would have happened.
throwaway85825 8mo ago
Crypto is just temporary regulatory arbitrage. Same as BNPL which is totally not just payday loans.
protocolture 8mo ago
I just want to exploit over worked border security by buying semi legal drugs they dont have the capacity to follow up prescriptions for.
jalapenos 8mo ago
I think you missed buying illegal goods over the internet and making absolutely inane videos and comment about crypto-shit that you spew all over the internet.
SergeAx 8mo ago
You were getting it wrong all this time. The #1 use case for crypto is buying illegal stuff. Mostly drugs, but also weapons and child pornography.

I thought the #1 use case for crypto was ransomware, followed by shitcoin rug-pulls, and the ability to commit theft without recourse. Sending money to Iran is just a minor edge case.

hilliardfarmer 8mo ago

What a deeply troubling and cynical comment. As far as I know, nowhere in the Bitcoin white paper or the original code base. Does it say anything about what you seem to think it's use cases are. Bitcoin has one main use, digital cash, that can be sent instantly and for free or a very low fee. Edit: I would agree though, that anything other than that is probably a scam.

natpalmer1776 8mo ago
Men of principles often mistake the experience and observations of others for cynicism when it does not align with said principles. This applies to a great deal, not just bitcoin.
- toomuchtodo 8mo ago
  Relevant citations: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_purpose_of_a_system_is_what_it_does https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_purpose_of_a_system_is_wha... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_mind https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_mind https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bounded_rationality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bounded_rationality "We must take the world as it is and not as we would like it to be." - Maurice Allais
- slopinthebag 8mo ago
  So the USD as well?
- hilliardfarmer 8mo ago
  Thank you, had to ready this 3 times but wow, well said!!!
lambda 8mo ago
What? "Instantly and for a very low fee"? Fees have historically gone up above $100 per transaction. They've since added hacks on top of the original Bitcoin protocol to get the price back down again, but the original design was not good for low fees. And transactions can take 30 minutes or more to settle, that's hardly instant. If you accept a transaction instantly, it's relatively easy for someone to scam you by double spending. So, no, Bitcoin doesn't make a great digital cash. Maybe a better wire transfer. But the biggest benefit of it is to be unblockable and unrefundable, which makes it great for scames and illegal activity, plus the speculative nature of the pricing, which is great for gambling on.
- SOLAR_FIELDS 8mo ago
  Pointing at the BTC transaction fee and saying it is super expensive is like pointing at a problematic car model and saying all cars are bad. There are any number of other popular coins out there that have the same or better liquidity as BTC that charge tiny fractions of the fees. And also settle in seconds. You're saying Bitcoin like BTC, but the parent commenter was probably referring to the giant ecosystem of coins, that happens to include BTC, but also many other much faster and cheaper options, that are used to globally remit payments every day. What it's replacing, by the way, Western Union, Wise and the like, is also pretty unblockable and unrefundable.
  - lambda 8mo ago
    What? I was replying to someone who explicitly referenced the Bitcoin whitepaper, they were clearly talking about BTC. And the protocol from the whitepaper was actually pretty bad, from a cost and transaction time point of view. It's gotten a bit better with some hacks layered on top of it. And yeah, the thing is, payment systems that work approximately as well as BTC exist without being cryptocurrency and using up so much electricity on mining. The main difference is that they don't operate in some areas where BTC still can (like evading sanctions, like this), and the speculative nature of BTC (which is actually a net negative on using it as a cash).
    - SOLAR_FIELDS 8mo ago
wpietri 8mo ago
It seems entirely accurate to me, at least in a POSIWID sense. The original theory of Bitcoin was, as described in the paper, decentralized digital cash. But in practice it was never optimized for what normal people use cash for. As system like that would be something like M-PESA. Even at the time, cash was declining in usage. In the 18 years since, it has declined a lot more. And for good reason, because what most people want for most things isn't digital cash, but digital money. E.g., debit cards and Venmo. So pretty naturally Bitcoin has value only for a few niche use cases that are not well served by more effective systems. Various sorts of crime, mostly. Digital cash, sure, but the kind that's transferred in unmarked envelopes slid quietly across the table. The kind that is delivered in a briefcase. As a side note, it also failed in its goal of being decentralized. The mining power is very concentrated. Much more so than the banking industry, for example. And most users keep their Bitcoin on deposit in centralized services. So it's again basically banking but worse.
- carshodev 8mo ago
  Although it was originally intended to be cash it actually now is used as a "store of wealth" It allows people to build up wealth and be able to preserve it from government intervention and inflation. If you have stocks the ownerhsip and registration is controlled by a government and can be taken at any time from you. Look at china where if you have a large company and take a stand against the government all your equity will be wiped out and you will be either imprisoned or banished to another country. Cash in a government bank account is the same way, you can wake up one day and all your assets will be seized, your credit cards will stop working. Bitcoin works because you can technically have your wealth memorized. You can memorize a string of charcters that allow you to bring money with you no matter where you go. NO government or other human can steal it from you (except through torture) but you can also easily not memorize it and instead distribute the keys throughout the world in opposing countries meaning even if you are attacked by one country you still have some wealth kept in another. A store of wealth is what bitcion allows. True freedom from governments stealing your money because you have ideas which they do not agree with. This in my mind is the main usage of bitcoin. Other coins like stablecoins, or the btc lightning network have high value because they make transactions much cheaper as traditional banking systems are complex, error prone, and costly.
datatrashfire 8mo ago
the problem is as a means of cash it’s inferior to existing systems in pretty much every dimension. more expensive, slower, more risk, higher volatility. the cash story for crypto is not good.
- carshodev 8mo ago
  This is incorrect, bitcoin is slower and more expensive, but bitcoin should not be used as cash, coins like stablecoins which direclty track US dollars or altcoins with lower fees should be used, the lightning network also is useful for transactions. Bitcoin CAN be used as a store of wealth and the slowness actually makes it better as the slowness is part of the same process that makes it safer, harder to hack/takeover, and gives it value. You should not look at all crypto as one thing.
  - idop 8mo ago
    [flagged]
    - smcin 8mo ago
      What's your specific criticism?

rwmj 8mo ago

That's a rather narrow view of crypto's uses. What about subverting democracy by bribing the President?

whynotmaybe 8mo ago
For me it was buying a computer from newegg but I confess I'm not playing in the same league.
- quinnjh 8mo ago
  What was the benefit to you over using USD? (actually wondering)
  - whynotmaybe 8mo ago
    1. Get rid of the few mBTC I had left after I realized how bad I'm at crypto trading 2. Fully live the concept of buying something physical from a virtual money I got by mining some now defunct coins.
    - cheema33 8mo ago
      i.e. No real benefit. And maybe a small drawback of increased transaction fees.
carshodev 8mo ago
Has the lack of crypto ever stopped this from happening? Look up cases of gold bars being found in senators houses, those are actually MUCH less tracable. Shitcoins and Shitstocks(some SPACs) do allow of a legal way to "give" others money through the transfer of value in a way that is technically legal. This again is not crypto specific though.
- greesil 8mo ago
  So the best part about being bribed with crypto is if one flees to another country to escape the law, one still has the aforementioned bribes. That plus some measure of anonymity.

numbers_guy 8mo ago

Back in 2011 I remember a lot of people talking about how the Chinese oligarchs were using it to evade currency controls and funnel their wealth out of China.

carshodev 8mo ago
Yes but we should be reminded that this also allows people to be protected from government overreach. If you say something the Chinese government does not agree with they can choose to take all your money and control of your company instantly. Not just oligarchs although those are the bigger targets due to the high value. Even a small business owner could THEORETICALLY have their assets and equity seized for saying something which goes against the current ruling party, and this is not specific to China it could happen in any modern country. Crypto allow someone to distribute their wealth in a way where they can be free to speak their mind and still protected even if the country which their business is based out of decides to take action against them.
- PearlRiver 8mo ago
  I like to live in a world were companies have to follow the law and pay taxes though. Crypto is one step in the direction of Cyberpunk corporations.
- bagacrap 8mo ago
  How is diversification unique to crypto? They could have bought us dollars or gold or a lot of other things even before Bitcoin. And the day that Trump decides to make Bitcoin illegal, its worldwide value still plummets. Besides which, crypto is not keeping anyone out of physical jail. China does not stop at seizing your bank accounts.
  - inigyou 8mo ago
    [dead]
- throw0101a 8mo ago
  > Crypto allow someone to distribute their wealth in a way where they can be free to speak their mind and still protected even if the country which their business is based out of decides to take action against them. Transferring money between people internationally has been around for centuries: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawala https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawala You transfer X units of value from you to someone else in the network locally, and an equivalent amount is transferred to you in a remote location.

lazyasciiart 8mo ago

Isn't it just a subset of #3?

boplicity 8mo ago

Money laundering has always been a core feature of cryptocurrency, not an edge case.

joe_the_user 8mo ago

Not that snark isn't warranted in this situation but you have to consider that the ability to turn energy into globally accepted (but notably not-actually-untraceable) cash-equivalent is a key piece of the corrupt bitcoin puzzle. It offer opportunities to everyone from third world oligarchs and pariahs to those who happen to be able to tap an electrical grid. Technically, this is indeed "theft without recourse" but you're reply seems to imply this kind is marginal. Moreover, the chances are the reason Binance nixed the investigation of bitcoin going to Iran is because so much of the bitcoin economy is driven by entities like Iran (google AI say they have 4.5% of global mining plus random search link [1]). Edit: Iran also wants bitcoin sent to it because bitcoin isn't actually untraceable so getting clean money for dirty matters. [1] https://www.chainalysis.com/blog/iranian-crypto-activity-geopolitical-tensions-2026/ https://www.chainalysis.com/blog/iranian-crypto-activity-geo...

amelius 8mo ago

You forgot gambling on crypto exchanges.

giarc 8mo ago

When I think about it, I know people that have been involved in all of those areas (always on the wrong non-criminal end). However, I'm not sure I know a single person that has made a regular transaction in some cryptocoin.

throwaway85825 8mo ago
The currency part of cryptocurrency was always a lie.
cguess 8mo ago
I did once. Even after setting up a wallet and buying BTC (this was back in the mid-2010s), it still took 15 minutes to pay for two glasses of wine at a cafe. I could have just tossed down €5 and been done with it in 20 seconds.
inigyou 8mo ago
[dead]

overgard 8mo ago

Well, you could also use it to buy a pizza and find out it that your pizza cost a billion dollars a few years later.

fragmede 8mo ago
Sixteen years! If that pizza were still around, it would be dreaming of going to prom, maybe college, figuring out life.
irjustin 8mo ago
Literally - this is my friend =( For him, it was something like a ~$30m pizza at peak. We're asked not to bring it up.
- IncreasePosts 8mo ago
  If he didn't buy a pizza with it and held the btc, he probably would have just sold it when he could make $1000, or $10000 with it.
  - irjustin 8mo ago
    While likely true, that's not how our brains work.
- deleted 8mo ago
  [deleted]
MrToadMan 8mo ago
Conversely, buying pizza with MELANIA has left me with zero regrets.

hinkley 8mo ago

I like to amuse myself that if Robert Preston had lived another 20 years that Stephen Colbert or John Oliver would have paid him a heap of money to explain cryptocurrency to us all and it never would have happened.

throwaway85825 8mo ago

Crypto is just temporary regulatory arbitrage. Same as BNPL which is totally not just payday loans.

protocolture 8mo ago

I just want to exploit over worked border security by buying semi legal drugs they dont have the capacity to follow up prescriptions for.

jalapenos 8mo ago

I think you missed buying illegal goods over the internet and making absolutely inane videos and comment about crypto-shit that you spew all over the internet.

SergeAx 8mo ago

You were getting it wrong all this time. The #1 use case for crypto is buying illegal stuff. Mostly drugs, but also weapons and child pornography.