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BMW's Newest "Innovation" Is a Logo-Shaped Middle Finger to Right to Repair
- general1465 9mo agoCorrect bit for screwdriver available on AliExpress 5 minutes after the bolt is available for public.
- smitty1e 9mo agoFine. But the broader point is that the customer is the product, not the owner of a purchase.
- garyfirestorm 9mo agoThat makes me wonder if customer is the product, who is the owner?
- dingaling 9mo agoBMW Financial Services. Very few people in Europe 'own' their cars nowadays.
- nic547 9mo agoAnd that would violate both BMWs Trademark and Patent, which at least in Switzerland could mean having to pay BMW damages and get fined for importing counterfeit goods.
- chii 9mo agogood thing that it would be a chinese copy, and thus, not subject to switzerland law. So i wonder if chinese law recognize this patent/trademark for a screw?
- Cpoll 9mo agoTheir point is that there's a possibility that Swiss customs fines them and confiscates the "counterfeit."
- general1465 9mo agoMaybe, the problem is that customs are not opening every package and as long as manufacturer won't name the copy as "screwdriver for patented BMW screw" but something more like screwdriver SN-2249 then how customs would know what that screwdriver is for?
- chii 9mo agoCustoms could just ask you for a declaration, where if you lied and they found out later, you'd suffer a heavier penalty. I dont know if they do that right now (not familiar with it).
- general1465 9mo agoWhat would they found? I have ordered screwdriver SN-2249. Customs sees screwdriver SN-2249 on manifest and on invoice. What that screwdriver is used for? For tightening and loosing screws, duh. In no step of the process I have lied.
- ktm5j 9mo agoWhat's the reality of that happening though? I feel like they have bigger fish to fry than going after people for buying one screwdriver bit.
- chrisandchris 9mo agoIANAL, but as fas as I know when you're importing it from China, you are subject to local laws (and may pay the fine for importing a ccopy of a trademarked product).
- mft_ 9mo agoAnyone with a mill could fabricate something to fit that in a short space of time.
- voidUpdate 9mo agoI'd be interested to know how BMW manufactures those screws. The patterns in the metal in the image suggest the entire hole was drilled out? The deepest part has circular marks inside that looks like the marks left by a facing tool on a lathe or similar. Then I guess the two wedges were inserted and the whole screw faced?
- gloxkiqcza 9mo agoThe head was almost certainly milled out of a blank made on a lathe. Something like this: https://youtube.com/shorts/Yf-twqgWZQ8 https://youtube.com/shorts/Yf-twqgWZQ8
- ROOFLES 9mo agoCNC Milled and suface brushed. I Think these screws are going to be used in some decorative Panels etc. Would be cost prohibitive to use these all over the Car.
- cucumber3732842 9mo agoThis. It's obviously an interior fastener. Maybe they'll have a cheaper one without the logo for the airbag module or whatever. OEMs have spent untold sums over the year hiding interior trim fasteners using all manner of push and snap fittings. A few low trim vehicles have bucked that trend recently, to much savings of labor and tool/die cost and no apparent ill effect in the mind of consumers. And now everybody is testing the waters.
- jacquesm 9mo agoThose are end mill marks.
- cucumber3732842 9mo agoNearly zero chance of them doing that at production volumes though.
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- chubs 9mo agoBMW resale values make it very clear: these cars are actively hostile (in many many ways) to their owners the second they go out of warranty. Pity, their interiors are lovely. In the long term, is this strategy going to work out for them? I won't buy another one. I know... anecdata :)
- jacquesm 9mo agoA friend of mine used to buy the first model of any new and hot BMW. He'd know the specs better than the sales people and he spent a fortune on them. They also spent more time in the shop with electrical gremlins than any car that I've ever seen. One of our employees insisted on a Mini, which is also BMW as their lease car. No other car we had had that much trouble. BMW is a crap brand that used to make very good cars. Mercedes is getting there. Neither of these will survive in the longer term if they don't somehow get back to their roots: making safe and reliable vehicles with good resale value. But for both companies the problems are in the same domain: they never got the hang of software.
- anal_reactor 9mo ago> Neither of these will survive in the longer term German government will do everything possible to prevent these companies from failing, no matter how bad the situation gets. This means that current management can simply apply the "next quarter" strategy without any realistic downside.
- Bombthecat 9mo agoIt's also a well payed job for boomers. Helps to keep house prices up
- jillesvangurp 9mo agoProbably more of a gimmick than a strategy. In the grand scheme of things in cars a pretty minor one too. Replacing a panel and a bolt vs. replacing more complex components that have proprietary firmware, wiring harnesses, 3d printed/molded components with very complex design and tolerances, etc. A lot of that is business as usual across the industry. The key issue here is that repairability is currently not really factored into the sales value of the car. That's a bit naive of course because it actually does impact the second hand value of a car. For example, MG makes nice cars but they have a bit of a reputation for needing lots of repairs under warranty. That reduces their second hand value and therefore also impacts their new value. You can get some really good deals on second hand ones. But the repairs might add up. That's why the second hand value is so low. Lease companies buying new BMWs to lease them out to high salaried executives expect to be able to sell these things on 3-5 years later and get a decent second hand value. If the car then has a reputation for being a bit difficult and expensive to work on (like MG), that is going to reflect in the second hand price. And the lease price. Mostly lease companies just pass that on in the lease price. That works for BMW until more competitive vehicles show up that can be leased at a lower cost. A few quirky bolts won't move the needle here. They aren't going to get rich selling them or the tools that go with them. It's just a bit of minor friction for car repair shops. If they see enough BMWs in their shop, they'll get the damn screws and tools. It's not that different than Apple using custom screws on their devices. Every phone repair shop has the tools now.
- jacquesm 9mo agoIf it's metric thread you only need to unbolt them once, and then you replace them with TORX.
- reactordev 9mo agoYet another reason to never own a BMW
- fainpul 9mo agoYou will be able to buy a "BMW screwdriver" from China in a couple of weeks. This prevents nothing, it's just annoying and goes to show that BMW is run by dickheads (in case you didn't know yet). Apple's "pentalobe" screws tell you the same about that company.
- jamwil 9mo agoNow I’m curious, are there any manufacturers still making repairable cars?
- amelius 9mo agoChinese brands, maybe?
- vintermann 9mo agoThe "screw you" jokes just write themselves.
- tosti 9mo agoI wrote one for a test drive but then I forgot the turn signal and got pulled over.
- pjc50 9mo agoReminded me of the "shim" discussion about BMW motorcycles and part authenticity from the 1974 classic "Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance": http://www.hilarygallo.com/the-zen-shim-question/ http://www.hilarygallo.com/the-zen-shim-question/
- m463 9mo agoactually reminds me more of the "mechanics feel" part. Lots of pros use a hand screwdriver and they never strip heads/threads/etc
- conartist6 9mo agoEvery time I see that now to me it will represent stupidity and greedy waste
- ginko 9mo agoWouldn't circumventing trademark lockouts like this be fair use under "Sega v. Accolade"[1]? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sega_v._Accolade https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sega_v._Accolade
- schuppentier 9mo agoThis feels like they want to use trademark law to prevent third-party products. You can't legally produce the screws without baiscally copying the BMW logo onto it. I don't know if a similar argument would hold water for the drivers though.
- tialaramex 9mo agoIIRC in Europe at least that doesn't work because now your third party has the defence of necessity. They didn't want to use your protected mark, but it was necessary or else their product wouldn't work, so, the protection doesn't apply.
- bitwize 9mo agoIn the USA, in Sega v. Accolade the judge ruled that you can't use a trademark to block access to your stuff. The context was, the Sega Genesis DRM had a check for the string "SEGA" somewhere in the game's ROM; presumably, Sega reasoned that they could license their trademarked name for this purpose to licensed devs and sue makers of unlicensed cartridges for trademark infringement; and did sue Accolade when they attempted to publish unlicensed games for copyright and trademark infringement. The appeals judge overturned an earlier decision in favor of Sega, citing that trademarks can't be used to block what would otherwise be a fair-use act. Much of Sega v. Accolade was overruled by the DMCA, which explicitly makes defeating DRM a crime in the general case. But the prohibition against using trademarks to gatekeep people performing legal, nonfraudulent activity probably remains and may be cited in future cases.
- plagiarist 9mo agoThat ruling sounds so sane and now we have DMCA bullshit. You used to be able to take spammers to court individually as well, now we have the fuckall federal enforcement that protects them more than it does us.
- jacquesm 9mo agoOn the contrary, they are asking for trademark dilution with this.
- burnt-resistor 9mo agoBMW: The Ultimate Asshole Machine.. now with more assholery to assholes too! (Their motorcycles had a better rep until now.)
- M95D 9mo ago> Their motorcycles had a better rep until now. No they didn't. Driveshafts are notoriously bad. It's the kind of failure that leaves you on foot in the middle of nowhere.
- burnt-resistor 9mo agoOld ones then. Is this new ones? Which model year range?
- M95D 9mo agoIs 2025-10-15 recent enough? https://www.rideapart.com/news/776212/bmw-r1300rt-cardan-shaft-recall/ https://www.rideapart.com/news/776212/bmw-r1300rt-cardan-sha...
- burnt-resistor 9mo agoI wonder how many lemon law lawyers were involved before that happened.
- buildsjets 9mo agoI suppose that depends on your definition of “now”. BMW has had a 20 year history of fork lower failures on their adventure bikes. Just search “BMW Fork Failure” and you will find a lot of discussion. Here was a Microsoft friend’s wreck in Alaska, which I believe was one of the earliest ones. Front wheel complete separated while she was riding straight and level on a paved road. https://www.advrider.com/f/threads/crash-in-destruction-bay-yt.371650/ https://www.advrider.com/f/threads/crash-in-destruction-bay-...
- torginus 9mo agoI think this is misunderstood - everybody points out that how evil BMW is for trying to be proprietary, then immediately points out any Chinese factory can produce a compatible tool for pennies - which one is it? I think this is a pretty good mechanical design in general because: - large contact surface (like hex or torx) - no chance of slide-out (like flathead) or torque-out (like Philips) - you can use a different size screw bit than the screw, and it wont slide around, or destroy your nut like torx does with hex
- RankingMember 9mo ago> everybody points out that how evil BMW is for trying to be proprietary, then immediately points out any Chinese factory can produce a compatible tool for pennies - which one is it? Just because there's a workaround for an unnecessary annoying thing doesn't mean the thing ceases to be unnecessary and annoying.
- torginus 9mo agoAn I am pointing out the design has merit from a purely mechanical perspective, and is a very poor method for actually preventing third party repair. BMW has done some despicable things as pointed out by a recent article, like welding in a pyrotechnic fuse that would kill the battery when the car detected a fault, and which could only be replaced by cutting the factory sealed battery case open, or installing 'theft protection' measurers, which could brick ECUs if an unlicensed repair shop would attempt repairs on the car (which have been known to trigger even when the dealership attempted to fix the issue using official tools)
- MisterTea 9mo ago> An I am pointing out the design has merit from a purely mechanical perspective, and is a very poor method for actually preventing third party repair. It sounds like you are defending both the design and the decision with nothing said about it being a poor method.
- MisterTea 9mo ago
- alnwlsn 9mo agoReminds me of the 2-hole "snake eye" or "pig nose" screw heads you sometimes see in bathrooms or elevators. I have several of the bits for these since they come with every one of those n>20 -piece screwdriver bit sets, but I've never actually had to undo one. I guess that goes for most of the oddball bits those sets come with. If they really wanted to screw (pun, sorry) with repairability (and at significant cost to themselves), I guess they could start making their own taps and dies for nonstandard threads you can't buy anywhere else. Wouldn't stop them from being unscrewed, though.
- nickff 9mo agoThere are many non-standard screw diameters and threads. They are often implemented for particular requirement-driven (you may want deeper threads to increase strength or vibration-resistance) or regulatory reasons (certain tariffs kick-in at specific screw diameters).
- theturtle 9mo ago[dead]
- Gud 9mo agoI rent cars 300 days a year, for work. Generally I don’t have high expectations. Right now I’m driving a BMW IX2 and it’s the stupidest fucking car I ever drove. I had booked a Polestar 2, which Hertz unfortunately didn’t have available. Great car, that one.
- notglossy 9mo agoThis patent came from the design department. Some dude looked at the logo and said, “Huh, we could make a screw from this.” The legal team then took it and made a design patent. If you guys want, I can message him and ask about the grand conspiracy behind it but you might be disappointed.
- ktm5j 9mo agoLooks like Adafruit took down the page about 3D printing a working driver bit. Wonder who made that happen :/
- K2h 9mo agoThink we can get it with existing SP10 bit or “clutch” shaped bits? Fiber optics bit https://www.qocese.com/product-p-381399.html https://www.qocese.com/product-p-381399.html Magnetic Spanner bit https://www.amazon.com/Magnetic-Security-Screwdriver-Electronics-Maintenance/dp/B0G255PBV9 https://www.amazon.com/Magnetic-Security-Screwdriver-Electro... Clutch bit https://www.amazon.com/Clutch-Vintage-American-Steel-Sizes/dp/B0DBT16NRD https://www.amazon.com/Clutch-Vintage-American-Steel-Sizes/d...
- Tylast 9mo agoSeems to be in line with BMW's enshitification moves they've made regarding Home Assistant. I actually have an X5 that was affected by this & it will be the last BMW I ever own. https://alerts.home-assistant.io/alerts/bmw_connected_drive/ https://alerts.home-assistant.io/alerts/bmw_connected_drive/ https://www.reddit.com/r/homeassistant/comments/1n8tidg/bmw_kills_home_assistant_integration_to_protect/ https://www.reddit.com/r/homeassistant/comments/1n8tidg/bmw_...
- aristofun 9mo agoWho cares about bmw except gangsters and narcissistic psychopaths these days anyway? The quicker they bury themselves the better for everyone, more market space will remain for good car manufacturers
- metalman 9mo agoI have heard about these screws, but it isn't a reach to hand make a bit that would turn these all day, that said, I am done with screens and capacitive switches in cars and will be doing retro mods to a few nice clasics for my own use, one that only beeps when you push the giant button just for that.