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This is sad. I loved paying by palm at Whole Foods because it was definitely the fastest way to do things. You just scanned and you were out. Now I've got to sl

by arjie 9mo ago

This is sad. I loved paying by palm at Whole Foods because it was definitely the fastest way to do things. You just scanned and you were out. Now I've got to slowly type in my phone number for Prime and then tap my watch and select the right credit card (palm scan always used my groceries card). Ah well, perhaps adoption was low.

crazygringo 9mo ago
I just scan the QR code from the Whole Foods app on my phone. Then tap the button to pay with the credit card linked to the account. For security reasons, it makes sense that if you use your phone number rather than the QR code, of course you don't have the option to utilize the linked card. Meant to register the palm thing but just never got around to it, wasn't even really sure how/where? That was the main blocker for me -- was never prompted to do it as part of checkout, and didn't want to waste time going over to customer service to ask how.
- criddell 9mo ago
  The Whole Foods we go to is in a cellular dead zone. So much time is wasted by people standing there waiting for their phone to load.
  - crazygringo 9mo ago
    I've been bitten by that. I genuinely can't even guess why it needs internet to generate the code. Shouldn't it just be a TOTP-type thing?
- iamjake648 9mo ago
  It doesn't seem like a big deal, but this is just so much more annoying than using my palm that not only links my payment method but also prime membership. Now I need to tap through a stupid app and scan a code. We always stopped at whole foods on the way home from the gym, and I didn't always have my phone with me or readily accessible. This will definitely cause me to cut back on this quick stop in / impulse purchases.
  - jzimbel 9mo ago
    If you have an iOS phone you can create a shortcut on your home screen that jumps directly to the code in the Amazon app. Whole Foods app may have the Shortcuts integration too, but I use the Amazon app. The code both applies your Prime membership and links your preferred payment method.
    - awakeasleep 9mo ago
      I believe it’s even quicker to ask Siri to open the Whole Foods app. You don’t need to touch anything and Face ID will unlock the phone while you’re talking.
      - llsf 9mo ago
        But you all realize that the OP did not even have to reach for his phone. He just waved his hand to get his Prime discounts, pay and get his rewards. I get that it is fairly easy to use the app on the phone (although my WF has terrible reception, which is frustrating enough when I come to pick up packages), but waving your hand would still be faster.
        awakeasleep 9mo ago
        Not every response in the entire comment page is directed at the OP
- alex_young 9mo ago
  I think “just” is doing a lot of work here. Steps I remember: 1. Put down everything so you have 2 free hands. 2. Mention that it will take a minute to the cashier. 3. Unlock your phone. 4. Find the Amazon app (this part is odd, you’re at Whole Foods). 5. Dig around in the UI for the store code. They move it around. 6. Present your phone to the cashier to scan.
  - crazygringo 9mo ago
    1. I've already put down the groceries I was carrying, so the cashier can scan them. I have free hands. 2. The cashier is busy scanning, you don't need to mention anything. 3. FaceID unlocks it automatically. 4. What Amazon app? I use the Whole Foods app. I keep it easily accessible, I don't need to find it. 5. The code is always displayed by default when you open the app. You never have to dig around anything. 6. Or scan it yourself under the customer-facing scanner they have for that.
    - llsf 9mo ago
      I get it, but you realize that the OP just waved one hand and was done (with paying, getting his discounts and points, etc.). When we have to reach for the phone, unlock it (with biometric), tap to open the Whole Foods app, and then present the phone to scan a QR code. While it might be not much more, it is more than just show one hand.
  - thinkling 9mo ago
    The WF store I frequent has lousy cell reception, so add th step “open Settings app and get on store’s wifi” (and who knows what all that lets them track).
  - clhodapp 9mo ago
    IMO the word "just" is probably the most loaded words in technical argument
- arjie 9mo ago
  Ah, perhaps I should try this Whole Foods app. The Amazon app is very slow and requires a good data connection to launch so it's mildly inconvenient when you've already reached checkout and it won't open for you to get the QR code. The palm thing was never prompted as part of checkout, it's true. I just did it while I was being checked out once years ago since it seemed so cool and it worked flawlessly since then. Honestly, I found the UX of it really all well done. Even if it didn't make it in the long term, I hope the team knows there were a few happy users out here! EDIT: I just installed the Whole Foods app and it opens directly to the QR code. That's nice. It also selects the appropriate payment method. There doesn't seem to be a watch equivalent so I'll have to pull my phone out, but this definitely reduces the terrible blow of losing the palm scan. I hope it works well without good Internet access!
antgonzales 9mo ago
Amazon, 1998: hello we sell books but online Amazon, 2023: please return to your Primehouse for your nightly Primemeal, valued Primecitizen - krang t. nelson
dyauspitr 9mo ago
Like literally scan your palm? There’s no way that’s on device like a fingerprint reader on your iPhone either. You’re okay with just providing biometric data to a large corp like that. Makes me shudder.
- ceejayoz 9mo ago
  You wave your hand over a camera. At this point I presume they collect such biometrics whether I like it or not; they have cameras everywhere.
  - dyauspitr 9mo ago
    A grainy image of your palm from a surveillance camera capture is not going to expose biometric data. Your hand needs to be close enough to make out the detail required. Then tying that to your identity is very hard and takes manhours, not something you can replicate at scale. You’re giving them your palm print/vein scan tied to your identity on a plate. It’s very irresponsible.
    - ceejayoz 9mo ago
      > A grainy image of your palm I really doubt getting a reasonably good image of my hand is tough for Amazon. But they don't really need my palm at all; most of the point of that was probably that it'd be much freakier to normies if the self-checkout just said "hi Bob!" when you got close via facial recognition. > Then tying that to your identity is very hard and takes manhours… That seems deeply unlikely. I'm probably on 50 different cameras at a Whole Foods, some of which I'd never notice, and at some point I have to check out, which ties all that footage to a credit card and my Prime account if I don't want to pay the non-deal prices for everything.
      - dyauspitr 9mo ago
        Faces are easier to change. Grow a beard, wear some glasses, put on some weight or some surgery if you really need to. Can’t change your eye print, finder prints, vein pattern or DNA.
embedding-shape 9mo ago
> Now I've got to slowly type in my phone number for Prime Haven't the (big) supermarkets in the US adopted the whole "scan and go" thing that lots of countries in Europe have had for a long time? (maybe more than a decade at this point I think) When I go to the supermarket, right after the entrance, I pick up a scanner, then as I pick stuff, I scan them and pack them. Then when I'm done, you scan a code, give back the scanner, take your stuff and leave. Kind of assumed this was done in the US first and then spread here, but maybe it started here? Not sure.
- alex_young 9mo ago
  Haha no. US commerce improvements tend to trail EU by a decade. We just got tap to pay a couple of years ago. People still pass bits of paper with signatures on them to pay each other for stuff.
  - embedding-shape 9mo ago
    > We just got tap to pay a couple of years ago You mean NFC payments? :| Oh, and checks too? I guess things were very different than my assumption, interesting thing to have learned today. Thanks!
    - alex_young 9mo ago
      I mean the physical credit cards didn’t have tap to pay most of the time until very recently. NFC has been around for a long time.
      - embedding-shape 9mo ago
        > I mean the physical credit cards didn’t have tap to pay most of the time until very recently I think a couple of years before COVID hit most cards had it, but many stores didn't support it. But once COVID came and visited, all stores got new TPVs that could read NFC very quickly.
    - zdragnar 9mo ago
i_love_retros 9mo ago
Is it really that hard to take an credit card out your purse or wallet and tap it that you were happy to hand over biometric data to amazon?
- arjie 9mo ago
  Oh the alternative isn't taking a credit card out of my wallet and all that. It's scanning my Amazon Prime QR code and then tapping my watch after selecting the credit card. But it isn't "hard" per-se, just mildly inconvenient, and yes it doesn't take much inconvenience for me to volunteer my biometrics. Clearly that isn't sufficiently common a position or they wouldn't be removing it so your surprise is likely quite common as well.
  - lxgr 9mo ago
    I find scanning QR codes at the POS hugely inconvenient compared to paying with my watch. The discount has to be substantial for me to ever scan them. Retailer apps are often surprisingly (expectably?) bad at dealing with spotty/no connectivity, and even if they aren't, getting my phone out of my pocket, unlocking it, opening the right app, getting to the right screen in it (oh, did it just log me out?) etc. takes about 10x as long as arming my smartwatch in a convenient moment and tapping it once the terminal asks for it. It doesn't even require a free hand, since the range of mine is much better than that of passive contactless cards.
    - arjie 9mo ago
      I like linking to the Amazon account because apart from the discounts (which are nice), it puts the receipt in my Amazon orders list. Yes, at Gus's there's no such linking feature or discount and I just tap my watch after selecting the appropriate card. Amazon's app is just like what you describe. It is extraordinarily slow and needs a high-speed data network.
  - i_love_retros 9mo ago
    Amazon prime is tied to your credit card. One single action to pay: tap credit card against reader Why do you have so many hoops to jump through like presenting QR code and tapping watch
add-sub-mul-div 9mo ago
I tap a piece of plastic in two seconds and not only do I not have to give any tech giants my biometrics, they're not added as middleman in the transaction at all.

by arjie 9mo ago

crazygringo 9mo ago

I just scan the QR code from the Whole Foods app on my phone. Then tap the button to pay with the credit card linked to the account. For security reasons, it makes sense that if you use your phone number rather than the QR code, of course you don't have the option to utilize the linked card. Meant to register the palm thing but just never got around to it, wasn't even really sure how/where? That was the main blocker for me -- was never prompted to do it as part of checkout, and didn't want to waste time going over to customer service to ask how.

criddell 9mo ago
The Whole Foods we go to is in a cellular dead zone. So much time is wasted by people standing there waiting for their phone to load.
- crazygringo 9mo ago
  I've been bitten by that. I genuinely can't even guess why it needs internet to generate the code. Shouldn't it just be a TOTP-type thing?
iamjake648 9mo ago
It doesn't seem like a big deal, but this is just so much more annoying than using my palm that not only links my payment method but also prime membership. Now I need to tap through a stupid app and scan a code. We always stopped at whole foods on the way home from the gym, and I didn't always have my phone with me or readily accessible. This will definitely cause me to cut back on this quick stop in / impulse purchases.
- jzimbel 9mo ago
  If you have an iOS phone you can create a shortcut on your home screen that jumps directly to the code in the Amazon app. Whole Foods app may have the Shortcuts integration too, but I use the Amazon app. The code both applies your Prime membership and links your preferred payment method.
  - awakeasleep 9mo ago
    I believe it’s even quicker to ask Siri to open the Whole Foods app. You don’t need to touch anything and Face ID will unlock the phone while you’re talking.
    - llsf 9mo ago
      But you all realize that the OP did not even have to reach for his phone. He just waved his hand to get his Prime discounts, pay and get his rewards. I get that it is fairly easy to use the app on the phone (although my WF has terrible reception, which is frustrating enough when I come to pick up packages), but waving your hand would still be faster.
      - awakeasleep 9mo ago
        Not every response in the entire comment page is directed at the OP
alex_young 9mo ago
I think “just” is doing a lot of work here. Steps I remember: 1. Put down everything so you have 2 free hands. 2. Mention that it will take a minute to the cashier. 3. Unlock your phone. 4. Find the Amazon app (this part is odd, you’re at Whole Foods). 5. Dig around in the UI for the store code. They move it around. 6. Present your phone to the cashier to scan.
- crazygringo 9mo ago
  1. I've already put down the groceries I was carrying, so the cashier can scan them. I have free hands. 2. The cashier is busy scanning, you don't need to mention anything. 3. FaceID unlocks it automatically. 4. What Amazon app? I use the Whole Foods app. I keep it easily accessible, I don't need to find it. 5. The code is always displayed by default when you open the app. You never have to dig around anything. 6. Or scan it yourself under the customer-facing scanner they have for that.
  - llsf 9mo ago
    I get it, but you realize that the OP just waved one hand and was done (with paying, getting his discounts and points, etc.). When we have to reach for the phone, unlock it (with biometric), tap to open the Whole Foods app, and then present the phone to scan a QR code. While it might be not much more, it is more than just show one hand.
- thinkling 9mo ago
  The WF store I frequent has lousy cell reception, so add th step “open Settings app and get on store’s wifi” (and who knows what all that lets them track).
- clhodapp 9mo ago
  IMO the word "just" is probably the most loaded words in technical argument
arjie 9mo ago
Ah, perhaps I should try this Whole Foods app. The Amazon app is very slow and requires a good data connection to launch so it's mildly inconvenient when you've already reached checkout and it won't open for you to get the QR code. The palm thing was never prompted as part of checkout, it's true. I just did it while I was being checked out once years ago since it seemed so cool and it worked flawlessly since then. Honestly, I found the UX of it really all well done. Even if it didn't make it in the long term, I hope the team knows there were a few happy users out here! EDIT: I just installed the Whole Foods app and it opens directly to the QR code. That's nice. It also selects the appropriate payment method. There doesn't seem to be a watch equivalent so I'll have to pull my phone out, but this definitely reduces the terrible blow of losing the palm scan. I hope it works well without good Internet access!

antgonzales 9mo ago

Amazon, 1998: hello we sell books but online Amazon, 2023: please return to your Primehouse for your nightly Primemeal, valued Primecitizen - krang t. nelson

dyauspitr 9mo ago

Like literally scan your palm? There’s no way that’s on device like a fingerprint reader on your iPhone either. You’re okay with just providing biometric data to a large corp like that. Makes me shudder.

ceejayoz 9mo ago
You wave your hand over a camera. At this point I presume they collect such biometrics whether I like it or not; they have cameras everywhere.
- dyauspitr 9mo ago
  A grainy image of your palm from a surveillance camera capture is not going to expose biometric data. Your hand needs to be close enough to make out the detail required. Then tying that to your identity is very hard and takes manhours, not something you can replicate at scale. You’re giving them your palm print/vein scan tied to your identity on a plate. It’s very irresponsible.
  - ceejayoz 9mo ago
    > A grainy image of your palm I really doubt getting a reasonably good image of my hand is tough for Amazon. But they don't really need my palm at all; most of the point of that was probably that it'd be much freakier to normies if the self-checkout just said "hi Bob!" when you got close via facial recognition. > Then tying that to your identity is very hard and takes manhours… That seems deeply unlikely. I'm probably on 50 different cameras at a Whole Foods, some of which I'd never notice, and at some point I have to check out, which ties all that footage to a credit card and my Prime account if I don't want to pay the non-deal prices for everything.
    - dyauspitr 9mo ago
      Faces are easier to change. Grow a beard, wear some glasses, put on some weight or some surgery if you really need to. Can’t change your eye print, finder prints, vein pattern or DNA.

embedding-shape 9mo ago

> Now I've got to slowly type in my phone number for Prime Haven't the (big) supermarkets in the US adopted the whole "scan and go" thing that lots of countries in Europe have had for a long time? (maybe more than a decade at this point I think) When I go to the supermarket, right after the entrance, I pick up a scanner, then as I pick stuff, I scan them and pack them. Then when I'm done, you scan a code, give back the scanner, take your stuff and leave. Kind of assumed this was done in the US first and then spread here, but maybe it started here? Not sure.

alex_young 9mo ago
Haha no. US commerce improvements tend to trail EU by a decade. We just got tap to pay a couple of years ago. People still pass bits of paper with signatures on them to pay each other for stuff.
- embedding-shape 9mo ago
  > We just got tap to pay a couple of years ago You mean NFC payments? :| Oh, and checks too? I guess things were very different than my assumption, interesting thing to have learned today. Thanks!
  - alex_young 9mo ago
    I mean the physical credit cards didn’t have tap to pay most of the time until very recently. NFC has been around for a long time.
    - embedding-shape 9mo ago
      > I mean the physical credit cards didn’t have tap to pay most of the time until very recently I think a couple of years before COVID hit most cards had it, but many stores didn't support it. But once COVID came and visited, all stores got new TPVs that could read NFC very quickly.
  - zdragnar 9mo ago

i_love_retros 9mo ago

Is it really that hard to take an credit card out your purse or wallet and tap it that you were happy to hand over biometric data to amazon?

arjie 9mo ago
Oh the alternative isn't taking a credit card out of my wallet and all that. It's scanning my Amazon Prime QR code and then tapping my watch after selecting the credit card. But it isn't "hard" per-se, just mildly inconvenient, and yes it doesn't take much inconvenience for me to volunteer my biometrics. Clearly that isn't sufficiently common a position or they wouldn't be removing it so your surprise is likely quite common as well.
- lxgr 9mo ago
  I find scanning QR codes at the POS hugely inconvenient compared to paying with my watch. The discount has to be substantial for me to ever scan them. Retailer apps are often surprisingly (expectably?) bad at dealing with spotty/no connectivity, and even if they aren't, getting my phone out of my pocket, unlocking it, opening the right app, getting to the right screen in it (oh, did it just log me out?) etc. takes about 10x as long as arming my smartwatch in a convenient moment and tapping it once the terminal asks for it. It doesn't even require a free hand, since the range of mine is much better than that of passive contactless cards.
  - arjie 9mo ago
    I like linking to the Amazon account because apart from the discounts (which are nice), it puts the receipt in my Amazon orders list. Yes, at Gus's there's no such linking feature or discount and I just tap my watch after selecting the appropriate card. Amazon's app is just like what you describe. It is extraordinarily slow and needs a high-speed data network.
- i_love_retros 9mo ago
  Amazon prime is tied to your credit card. One single action to pay: tap credit card against reader Why do you have so many hoops to jump through like presenting QR code and tapping watch

add-sub-mul-div 9mo ago

I tap a piece of plastic in two seconds and not only do I not have to give any tech giants my biometrics, they're not added as middleman in the transaction at all.