5 ms·

I believe the opposite is happening in China. I saw an article the other day ( https://fortune.com/2026/01/14/china-graduates-1-3-million-engineers-per-year-us-

by ixtli 8mo ago

I believe the opposite is happening in China. I saw an article the other day ( https://fortune.com/2026/01/14/china-graduates-1-3-million-engineers-per-year-us-shortage-ai-tools/ https://fortune.com/2026/01/14/china-graduates-1-3-million-e... ) that showed how the amount of engineers being produced there is orders of magnitude greater than the US. Way above what you'd expect given the different sizes of population. Now, i realize an engineer isn't the same as a PhD but i think we're seeing a dramatic brain drain happening in the west.

amelius 8mo ago
It is because China has a meritocratic system.
- ixtli 8mo ago
  Maybe. I would like to think that is true but i don't have much evidence. I think what we can see provably is that China is investing in the development of STEM contributors at the primary school level through advanced degrees and the central government is directing the economy to spend huge amounts on the work that they do.
- weirdmantis69 8mo ago
  I'm very curious about this because even tho we need to preserve democracy, some elements of meritocracy also seem needed. Obviously as Xi's latest purges show, there is some politics to it as well, but China does seem to do a fairly good job of meritocracy in the bureaucracy.
  - deleted 8mo ago
    [deleted]
  - Nasrudith 8mo ago
    It is important to remember that meritocracy isn't a binary, it is a spectrum. Just having exams based upon literacy and ability to understand poetry about flowers for bureaucratic positions that do paperwork is more meritocratic than just a literal aristocracy and ensures literacy, but it still isn't necessarily the most relevant ability to actual ability to perform the job. Then there is the question if office politics qualify as actual job skill or is just a derailment of merit. Furthermore there are complications with unequal resources and means of training. Not just from some families having more money, but also from more knowledge. Children who are read to are more likely to be literate, family businesses, and all that. The unequal resources raises deeper questions about what is the origin of merit. The real world is messy like that.
retired 8mo ago
I’m not a PhD, just an engineer and I moved out of The Netherlands. It was no longer economical feasible to live there. I am very pessimistic about the future Western Europe. Right now it offers the one of the best QoL in the world for the average worker but who knows for how long. With the current brain and wealth drain there will no longer be enough people to support the social system.
- ixtli 8mo ago
  Sorry to hear you got priced out :( Unfortunately i am also quite pessimistic about the future of europe and the us, too.
  - retired 8mo ago
    The Netherlands is taking action against the brain drain by rapidly importing highly skilled migrants through various tax lowering schemes in the first five years of living here. However plenty of those people leave after that period. Especially with the upcoming 36% unrealized capital gains tax on all your savings and investments. Feels a bit like ISPs giving discounts to new customers only.
    - andriesm 8mo ago
      On unrealized gains, wait, what??
      - retired 8mo ago
        Yes. Say you have €80k in investments. Markets go up, in one year time your investments are worth €90k. You did not sell. That means you had €10k in unrealized capital gains. Subtract the €1800 per person threshold. €8200, 36% tax is €2952 tax to be paid at the start of the year. Losses give you tax credits redeemable against future capital gains (not against income tax from employment)
        jay_kyburz 8mo ago
logicchains 8mo ago
And since China cracked down on the tech industry there aren't enough jobs for those new STEM graduates, so many are stuck doing gig work: https://asiasociety.org/policy-institute/19-percent-revisited-how-youth-unemployment-has-changed-chinese-society https://asiasociety.org/policy-institute/19-percent-revisite... .
CharlieDigital 8mo ago
There was an interesting Freakonomics podcast a few months back that pointed out an interesting divide in how the US and China thinks about its leaders[0]. > China is a country that is run by engineers, while the U.S. is a country run by lawyers. Engineers, he explains, are driven to build while lawyers are driven to argue, and obstruct. Even Trump: > And even though Donald Trump is not a lawyer by any means, I think he is still a product of the lawyerly society, because lawsuits have been completely central to his business career. He has sued absolutely everyone. He has sued business partners, he has sued political opponents, he has sued his former lawyers as well. And there is, I think, something still very lawyerly about Donald Trump in which he is flinging accusations left and right, he’s trying to intimidate people, trying to establish guilt in the court of public opinion Very interesting take and I think insightful on why the US is the way it is today and sidesteps the democracy vs autocracy debate. [0] https://freakonomics.com/podcast/china-is-run-by-engineers-america-is-run-by-lawyers/ https://freakonomics.com/podcast/china-is-run-by-engineers-a...
- Hikikomori 8mo ago
  Not just lawyerly society, special kind of asshole lawyer, as he was a protégé of Roy Cohn.
  - jwhitlark 8mo ago
    Supposedly Roy Cohn was startled by how easily he was discarded when he wasn’t useful anymore. Makes me wonder who will be the next in line with the knife.
- deleted 8mo ago
  [deleted]
- fdw 8mo ago
  The episode was based on the book Breakneck: China's Quest to Engineer the Future by Dan Wang (Amazon: China's Quest to Engineer the Future) Very interesting read, with a lot more depth and details to this short (but accurate) summary.
- 8mo ago
deleted 8mo ago
[deleted]

by ixtli 8mo ago

amelius 8mo ago

It is because China has a meritocratic system.

ixtli 8mo ago
Maybe. I would like to think that is true but i don't have much evidence. I think what we can see provably is that China is investing in the development of STEM contributors at the primary school level through advanced degrees and the central government is directing the economy to spend huge amounts on the work that they do.
weirdmantis69 8mo ago
I'm very curious about this because even tho we need to preserve democracy, some elements of meritocracy also seem needed. Obviously as Xi's latest purges show, there is some politics to it as well, but China does seem to do a fairly good job of meritocracy in the bureaucracy.
- deleted 8mo ago
  [deleted]
- Nasrudith 8mo ago
  It is important to remember that meritocracy isn't a binary, it is a spectrum. Just having exams based upon literacy and ability to understand poetry about flowers for bureaucratic positions that do paperwork is more meritocratic than just a literal aristocracy and ensures literacy, but it still isn't necessarily the most relevant ability to actual ability to perform the job. Then there is the question if office politics qualify as actual job skill or is just a derailment of merit. Furthermore there are complications with unequal resources and means of training. Not just from some families having more money, but also from more knowledge. Children who are read to are more likely to be literate, family businesses, and all that. The unequal resources raises deeper questions about what is the origin of merit. The real world is messy like that.

retired 8mo ago

I’m not a PhD, just an engineer and I moved out of The Netherlands. It was no longer economical feasible to live there. I am very pessimistic about the future Western Europe. Right now it offers the one of the best QoL in the world for the average worker but who knows for how long. With the current brain and wealth drain there will no longer be enough people to support the social system.

ixtli 8mo ago
Sorry to hear you got priced out :( Unfortunately i am also quite pessimistic about the future of europe and the us, too.
- retired 8mo ago
  The Netherlands is taking action against the brain drain by rapidly importing highly skilled migrants through various tax lowering schemes in the first five years of living here. However plenty of those people leave after that period. Especially with the upcoming 36% unrealized capital gains tax on all your savings and investments. Feels a bit like ISPs giving discounts to new customers only.
  - andriesm 8mo ago
    On unrealized gains, wait, what??
    - retired 8mo ago
      Yes. Say you have €80k in investments. Markets go up, in one year time your investments are worth €90k. You did not sell. That means you had €10k in unrealized capital gains. Subtract the €1800 per person threshold. €8200, 36% tax is €2952 tax to be paid at the start of the year. Losses give you tax credits redeemable against future capital gains (not against income tax from employment)
      - jay_kyburz 8mo ago

logicchains 8mo ago

And since China cracked down on the tech industry there aren't enough jobs for those new STEM graduates, so many are stuck doing gig work: https://asiasociety.org/policy-institute/19-percent-revisited-how-youth-unemployment-has-changed-chinese-society https://asiasociety.org/policy-institute/19-percent-revisite... .

CharlieDigital 8mo ago

There was an interesting Freakonomics podcast a few months back that pointed out an interesting divide in how the US and China thinks about its leaders[0]. > China is a country that is run by engineers, while the U.S. is a country run by lawyers. Engineers, he explains, are driven to build while lawyers are driven to argue, and obstruct. Even Trump: > And even though Donald Trump is not a lawyer by any means, I think he is still a product of the lawyerly society, because lawsuits have been completely central to his business career. He has sued absolutely everyone. He has sued business partners, he has sued political opponents, he has sued his former lawyers as well. And there is, I think, something still very lawyerly about Donald Trump in which he is flinging accusations left and right, he’s trying to intimidate people, trying to establish guilt in the court of public opinion Very interesting take and I think insightful on why the US is the way it is today and sidesteps the democracy vs autocracy debate. [0] https://freakonomics.com/podcast/china-is-run-by-engineers-america-is-run-by-lawyers/ https://freakonomics.com/podcast/china-is-run-by-engineers-a...

Hikikomori 8mo ago
Not just lawyerly society, special kind of asshole lawyer, as he was a protégé of Roy Cohn.
- jwhitlark 8mo ago
  Supposedly Roy Cohn was startled by how easily he was discarded when he wasn’t useful anymore. Makes me wonder who will be the next in line with the knife.
deleted 8mo ago
[deleted]
fdw 8mo ago
The episode was based on the book Breakneck: China's Quest to Engineer the Future by Dan Wang (Amazon: China's Quest to Engineer the Future) Very interesting read, with a lot more depth and details to this short (but accurate) summary.
8mo ago

deleted 8mo ago

[deleted]