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I just hope "dumb" EV's become a thing soon. I cannot and will not own a smart car any more I want to own a smart TV or smart fridge or smart toaster.
by ares623 9mo ago
I just hope "dumb" EV's become a thing soon. I cannot and will not own a smart car any more I want to own a smart TV or smart fridge or smart toaster.
- shiftpgdn 9mo agoJust buy one and remove the SIM card.
- i80and 9mo agoThey often have eSIMs I think, but (depending probably on the car) pulling the modem's fuse can be safe. That's the case for the VW ID.4 at least.
- Nextgrid 9mo agoIf the modem has no fuse, physically damaging the NIC chip in the module will also work.
- wizzwizz4 9mo agoI want the car to be able to contact emergency services, but not to otherwise be able to use the cellular network. Is there a good way to sabotage the eSIM, without otherwise breaking the modem? (This would still allow the car to be tracked via IMEI, but I'm not too worried about that: anyone capable of that is also capable of tracking my actual phone, and anyone buying that data will already know what car I own.)
- eldaisfish 9mo agowhy do you want your car to contact emergency services? the people around you can do that just fine and very reliably. How on earth did we survive as a species before our cars could make automated phone calls?
- charcircuit 9mo agoThe parent comment is interested in the survival of themselves and passengers. The survival of the human race is a low bar to pass.
- mattlondon 9mo agoThere's often been a few cases of "disappeared" people who went missing and it turns out they actually crashed off the road somewhere and weren't found for a week or two. That's extreme of course but there are probably a lot of accidents that happen in low-density rural country areas or late at night when there aren't many people around. The automatic e-call from the car gives exact GPS coordinates and severity of the accident, even if you are unconscious or if your phone that was neatly in the cup holder before the crash was flung somewhere else (potentially even flew out of the car etc) and you're trying to find it while someone might be dying in the seat next to you etc. People didn't survive before all this. It's a mandatory feature now because it's so effective at saving lives. 2 to 10% reduction in fatalities and serious injuries apparently. Would you also question why we have mandatory airbags and traction control?!
- deleted 9mo ago[deleted]
- eldaisfish 9mo agoright, but airbags, seatbelts, etc. are not internet connected. That's the critical distinction. I do not want the risks that come with my car connecting to the internet. A much more reasonable ask would be for your car's systems to use your phone to place a call to emergency services. I absolutely do not want yet another internet connected device in my life, especially one like a car, where examples exist of hackers being able to disable the electronics remotely.
- mattlondon 9mo agoIt uses a automated voice call and a SMS message I think. It's not internet based, it just dials 112 like a human would
- ebiederm 9mo agoDoes the 2026 Nissan Leaf meet your criteria for a dumb car? All it's connected features appear to come from Android Auto or Apple Car Play. AKA from a connection to your phone. I like the looks of it because it appears to be a serious EV unlike too many which are just some company getting their toes wet.
- 46493168 9mo agoDoes Nissan still air cool their batteries or have they wised up?
- i80and 9mo agoThe 2026 redesign has put in a proper liquid cooling loop. (Battery heating is inexplicably an extra $300 option, and not available on the base trim AFAICS?)
- everdrive 9mo agoDoes Nissan still not put telematics in the base model in 2026?
- everdrive 9mo agoLooking at the specs page the base model includes "Dual 12.3" widescreen displays" Why? What the hell is wrong with modern cars?
- rootusrootus 9mo agoLots (most?) cars are going to LCDs for the instrument panel. The second screen is the infotainment.
- al_borland 9mo agoMy previous car had its infotainment system reboot several times while I was on the expressway. The idea of my instrument panel, or other more critical systems, crashing and rebooting while driving terrifies me.
- alephnerd 9mo ago> I just hope "dumb" EV's become a thing soon What business case is there for a "dumb" EV? By using touchscreens and software for most functionality, you dramatically reduce your supply chain overhead and better enhance margins (instead of managing the supply chain for dozens of extruded buttons, now you manage the supply chain of a single LCD touchscreen). This was a major optimization that Chinese automotive manufacturers (ICE and EV) found and took advantage of all the way back in 2019 [0] - treat cars as consumer electronics instead of as "cars". Edit: Any answer that does not take COGS or Magins into account is moot. [0] - https://www.mckinsey.com/~/media/mckinsey/industries/automotive%20and%20assembly/our%20insights/winning%20the%20race%20chinas%20auto%20market%20shifts%20gears/winning-the-race-chinas-auto-market-shifts-gears.pdf https://www.mckinsey.com/~/media/mckinsey/industries/automot...
- mixmastamyk 9mo agoThe case is that you’ll sell more cars giving people options. Slate is bucking the trend, we’ll see if successful.
- derf_ 9mo agoThe business case is that I will actually buy it. I won't buy "consumer electronics" garbage when I want to buy safe and reliable transportation.
- MBCook 9mo agoThat hasn’t worked for TVs. Or phones. Or plenty of other things.
- pinnochio 9mo agoNot sure what your point is when we're talking about cars, where fixed physical controls are demonstrably more usable and safer for drivers that need to keep their eyes on the road. Multiple manufacturers have pulled back from excessive touch controls (not just touchscreens, but capacitive buttons and sliders) and reinstated more traditional buttons and dials.
- jayd16 9mo agoWe'll probably see the death of the dumb ICE car first.
- rootusrootus 9mo agoThe differentiating factor is not EV vs ICE. All cars have or will soon have telematics and such.
- tshaddox 9mo agoAre EVs more “smart” than comparably priced ICE vehicles?
- seanmcdirmid 9mo agoNot really, they are just newer than the average ICE car. Parent wants an EV from the early 2000s or the 1990s.
- princevegeta89 9mo agoDepends. They get a virtually continual supply of standby power that can last for months if left untouched. So from a technology standpoint that enables them to do many things - from being connected to the network, aware of their location on the map, recording camera footage and other remote capabilities. ICE cars do have some of these but the huge battery packs on EVs make these very feasible.
- MBCook 9mo agoDo they? I was under the impression most EVs cut off the connection to the high voltage battery almost all the time they’re not in use. They rely on a 12 V battery or a 48 V battery like a normal car. The only thing I’m aware of that special is that if that low voltage battery gets low enough the car will detect it and recharge it from the high voltage battery, temporarily connecting it for that purpose.
- princevegeta89 9mo agoWell that was what I meant - the battery pack meaning the entire system of batteries, be it 1 or 2 or 3. That really enables them to have a continuous state of power supply for a long long time. This cannot be achieved by ICE cars and not even hybrids for that matter.
- cosmic_cheese 9mo agoIn theory. In practice, a lot of EVs (and hybrids, which could do the same thing to a more limited extent) ship with the same cheap flooded lead acid 12v batteries that ship with ICE cars and don't handle constant charging/discharging well. This puts a cap on how much the "smart" systems can do because it dramatically increases cycle count and thus the risk of the 12v battery losing the ability to produce enough voltage to start the car, leaving the driver marooned somewhere. It could also result in a noticeable "vampire" drain on the high voltage battery which looks bad and could put you at a disadvantage vs. competitors.
- shmoe 9mo agoHave you met https://slate.auto https://slate.auto ? :) Doesn't even have automatic windows.
- usui 9mo agoAh yes, the previously-marketed $20,000 Slate which is actually $30,000 now, still comes with nothing, and hasn't hit production yet. If only BYD could come in and destroy the non-smart/budget EV market.
- shmoe 9mo agoI mean, dude asked for a non-smart car.. BYD isn't fitting that either.
- princevegeta89 9mo agoJesus Christ... this entire thing looks like such a far-fetched dream to me. I am worried for the VCs that dumped their money into this idea.
- al_borland 9mo agoJeff Bezos was one of them. He’ll be ok.
- shmoe 9mo agoWe'll see soon enough, they promise trucks on the road later this year.
- tombert 9mo agoI don't love smart TVs either, but why not just buy a smart TV and not use the smart features? I have a few "smart TVs", but I haven't even connected them to Wi-Fi, and I instead opt for an Nvidia Shield TV or just a laptop computer plugged in instead.
- al_borland 9mo agoDepending on the TV, it will still kick you to their bloated “smart” interface all the time, instead of just simply cycling through inputs.
- stephenr 9mo agoA few years ago it came out that one of the manufacturers (my hunch is Samsung but I don't remember the specifics) had their "smart" tvs aggressively try connecting to any and all networks it can find in range, if you didn't connect it to one. I reluctantly bought an LG with webOS (least bad option available) a couple of years ago. For some reason they weren't content to let the TV menu/remote work with up/down/left/right buttons. That's too fucking predictable, and anyone who's used a tv in the last 2 decades could use it.... Let's give it a fucking nipple, just like those horrific fucking IBM/Lenovo laptops. Then of course it also tries to "help" by detecting HDR content and change view mode... while something is playing.... which makes the screen go black for several seconds.
- stevenjgarner 9mo agoWhy? Are you worried from a liberty/privacy standpoint? "Smart" EV's are demonstrated to be significantly safer than "dumb" EVs. Waymo’s 2025/2026 data shows an 80–90% reduction in injury-causing crashes compared to human drivers in the same cities. [1, 2, 3, 4] [1] https://www.reinsurancene.ws/waymo-shows-90-fewer-claims-than-advanced-human-driven-vehicles-swiss-re/ https://www.reinsurancene.ws/waymo-shows-90-fewer-claims-tha... [2] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11305169/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11305169/ [3] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39485678/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39485678/ [4] https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Comparison-of-Swiss-Re-human-driver-baselines-with-Waymo-liability-insurance-claims-for_fig2_382262837 https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Comparison-of-Swiss-Re-h...
- somehnguy 9mo agoPersonally I’m not very keen on owning a vehicle the manufacturer can completely brick at will
- stevenjgarner 9mo agoSo liberty then. I don't disagree with you, but this modern flashpoint in the classic debate between individual liberty and collective safety does bring up the question what is saving 50,000+ lives annually actually worth in terms of loss of personal freedoms? I am personally struggling with this debate having lost loved ones in this manner.
- direwolf20 9mo agoRemote bricking of cars does not save 50,000 lives.
- stevenjgarner 9mo agoThat is not the argument being made. We are discussing how "dumb" vehicles (e.g. vehicles that contribute to 50,000+ fatalities annually) provide independence, privacy and freedom that "smart" vehicles (e.g. vehicles with self-driving that can be bricked at will) do not ensure.
- thegreatpeter 9mo agoHave you been in the new Model Y? I was all for the „dumb car” until I tried one of those. Never going back. You only want „dumb” bc the other car companies fk’d it all up.
- bdangubic 9mo agoOther car companies fucked it up is funny way to put it. Tesla hasn’t made a new car in a decade and the whole lineup is for my 80-year old Dad. I have 2014 Tesla S, my neighbour 2025, same car. Tesla X is from a decade ago, Tesla 3 is basically Toyota Corolla and Y is basically Model 3 that was pumped up a bit to look like a “crossover”
- sMarsIntruder 9mo agoWow. This comment makes me wonder if really earth is flat.
- bdangubic 9mo agowhen I bought my Tesla S there was a lot of head injuries from people turning around to see this new amazing cars. now, not only are sales tanking but the cars look so old and dated that my first assumption when I see say Model Y is “gotta be someone’s grandma” when was the last time you saw a Tesla and went “oh cool car!”? been awhile, right? Now ask the same question for BMW, Benz…
- SloppyDrive 9mo agoPost crash connectivity (as well as complex video classification) are part of the ncap standards now. And with the way we are moving to centralized one system architectures, the device that does video processing can be the same soc that does smart infotainment. Smart connectivity essentially comes "for free" if the manufacturer wants to hit 5 safety stars, so its not going away, and will come to ICE cars as they modernize the vehicle architectures.
- 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 9mo agoI hate that. If I live in the country, my car spies on me. If I live in the city everyone spies on me. One value I agree with the libertarians on is, I just want to be left alone.
- mixmastamyk 9mo agoConnect and infotainment must be firewalled from the engine computer for security reasons. It’s not like two raspberry pis are that expensive.
- SloppyDrive 9mo agoNot remotely true; Look up "one chip" designs. Yes, there are some security threats, but solving them is more valuable than trying to design a car around true firewalls.
- mixmastamyk 9mo agoYou must have missed the news about cars being hacked, while in movement no less. That some have tried to save money while risking lives is not an endorsement or evidence of a solved problem.
- pilingual 9mo agoSlate, or pull the cellular connection: http://techno-fandom.org/~hobbit/cars/ev/offnet.html http://techno-fandom.org/~hobbit/cars/ev/offnet.html
- conk 9mo agoJust get a used one that’s a decade old. The cell providers will all move on past 3g/4g etc and the cars won’t be able to connect. Plus I’m sure no one is paying to keep a cell connection going for a decade old EV.
- mnot 9mo agoWe just bought a Cupra Tavascan; turns out VW Group Australia decided to forgo connected car features for EVs (or at least the ones we looked at). Win.
- girvo 9mo agoCupra Born in aus, same thing here haha Though it means connected charging via API stuff doesn’t work. Not that it’s mattered to me!
- girvo 9mo agoAmusingly my Cupra Born in Australia is a “dumb” EV, because Cupra/VW didn’t put a SIM in the car in this country. It’s quite lovely really, though it means I have to go to Cupra for a firmware update.
- rgmerk 9mo agoNot happening any time soon, sorry. Car manufacturers want that sweet sweet subscription revenue.
- RobGR 9mo agoI have hopes that the Slate vehicle will turn out to be a dumb EV, but I'm cynical enough that I want to wait til it hits the market and someone does a tear-down. https://www.slate.auto/ https://www.slate.auto/